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Muhammad and the Angel Gabriel
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David
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Muhammad and the Angel Gabriel  Reply with quote

When and where and in what words did the Angel Gabriel identify himself as the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad before the Quran was written?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first time Muhammad saw him, he was in the middle of the street. Muhammad cowered in fear and ran home and Khadija covered him in a towel.

Later the verse that came in the koran was about Gibreel addressing the one covered in a towel. It is a stupid mistake since Muhammad was NOT in the towel when Gibreel appeared to him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
The first time Muhammad saw him, he was in the middle of the street. Muhammad cowered in fear and ran home and Khadija covered him in a towel.

Later the verse that came in the koran was about Gibreel addressing the one covered in a towel. It is a stupid mistake since Muhammad was NOT in the towel when Gibreel appeared to him.


Can you back up your comments with Hadeeth sayings?

This is the first encounter Muhammad had as far as I can determine:

Sahih Bukhari 1.3)

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers)

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family.

He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely.

Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen.

Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

I don't see where the Angel Gabriel identified himself to Muhammad as the Angel Gabriel.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the hadith in question. Verse 96.1 is not the only verse that resulted from this incident:, there is another verse but i can not locate it without my mailbox in FFI. Looking it up.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, I looked on google and found this on prophetofdoom.

Quote:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prop..._07_With_Whom_Am_I_Speaking.Islam

Muslim:C74B1N304/Bukhari:V4B54N461 "While talking about the period of pause in revelation, the Prophet said, 'While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice. I looked and saw the angel who had visited me at the cave sitting on a chair in the sky. I got scared of him and ran back home and said, "Wrap me in blankets, Khadija. And then Allah revealed the Verses of the Qur'an to me. 'O Muhammad, the shrouded one, wrapped up in garments, arise and warn the people against the Lord's Punishment, and abandon the idols.' [This candidate for revelation number two is a divergent recital of Qur'an 74:1.] After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently, and regularly."


We have Muhammad running away from an Angel.
THEN Muhammad is wrapped in a blanket by Khadija.

So, we have Muhammad encountering the Angel THEN later is Wrapped in Cloth.

THEN Muhammad recounts what happened to him earlier.
Muhammad claims Gabriel was talking to him while he was wrapped.

If you can not detect the problem with this, plz let me know.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole Surat is called the Cloaked One.

074.001
YUSUFALI: O thou wrapped up (in the mantle)!
PICKTHAL: O thou enveloped in thy cloak,
SHAKIR: O you who are clothed!

074.002
YUSUFALI: Arise and deliver thy warning!
PICKTHAL: Arise and warn!
SHAKIR: Arise and warn,

074.003
YUSUFALI: And thy Lord do thou magnify!
PICKTHAL: Thy Lord magnify,
SHAKIR: And your Lord do magnify,

074.004
YUSUFALI: And thy garments keep free from stain!
PICKTHAL: Thy raiment purify,
SHAKIR: And your garments do purify,
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
The whole Surat is called the Cloaked One.

074.001
YUSUFALI: O thou wrapped up (in the mantle)!
PICKTHAL: O thou enveloped in thy cloak,
SHAKIR: O you who are clothed!

074.002
YUSUFALI: Arise and deliver thy warning!
PICKTHAL: Arise and warn!
SHAKIR: Arise and warn,

074.003
YUSUFALI: And thy Lord do thou magnify!
PICKTHAL: Thy Lord magnify,
SHAKIR: And your Lord do magnify,

074.004
YUSUFALI: And thy garments keep free from stain!
PICKTHAL: Thy raiment purify,
SHAKIR: And your garments do purify,


The first visit is the one I cited, ending with "But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while."


The second visit is:

"Jabir sid, speaking of the temporary break in the revelation (see blue text above). (The Holy Prophet) said in his narrative: "Whilst I was walking along, I heard a voice from heaven and I raised up my eyes, and lo! the Angel that had appeared to me in Hira was sitting on a throne between heaven and earth and I was struck with awe on account of him and returned (home) and said, "Wrap me up, wrap me up. The Allah revealed: "O thou who are clothed! Arise and warn. And they Lord do magnify, And they garments do purify. And uncleaniness do shun."

Muhammad asked to be "wrapped up" after each visit.

You said:
Quote:

We have Muhammad running away from an Angel.
THEN Muhammad is wrapped in a blanket by Khadija.

So, we have Muhammad encountering the Angel THEN later is Wrapped in Cloth.

THEN Muhammad recounts what happened to him earlier.
Muhammad claims Gabriel was talking to him while he was wrapped.

If you can not detect the problem with this, plz let me know.


I don't see the problem considering he was wrapped after the first visit, so I guess you are going to have to spell it out for me more clearly.  Thanks.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was wrapped after the first visit, then for a while there was not visit.
He was no longer wrapped.
Then he was visited again and was told something, let us call it X.
So he ran home and got wrapped again.

Then he is telling us that the revelation X is to someone who is wrapped.

The Koran states that the verse is to someone who is wrapped.
Yet Muhammad when he met the angel, he was in the middle of the road, He was NOT wrapped.

Men do not walk wrapped in the middle of the road.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
He was wrapped after the first visit, then for a while there was not visit.
He was no longer wrapped.
Then he was visited again and was told something, let us call it X.
So he ran home and got wrapped again.

Then he is telling us that the revelation X is to someone who is wrapped.

The Koran states that the verse is to someone who is wrapped.
Yet Muhammad when he met the angel, he was in the middle of the road, He was NOT wrapped.

Men do not walk wrapped in the middle of the road.


Fascinating observation.

I'm a Christian and go over Bible verses and pick them apart and I do it constantly.  I can understand why the ignorant Muslims would not pick up what you did, but what about the more educated?

Which leads me to ask why a Muslim has not responded to my thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Baal wrote:
He was wrapped after the first visit, then for a while there was not visit.
He was no longer wrapped.
Then he was visited again and was told something, let us call it X.
So he ran home and got wrapped again.

Then he is telling us that the revelation X is to someone who is wrapped.

The Koran states that the verse is to someone who is wrapped.
Yet Muhammad when he met the angel, he was in the middle of the road, He was NOT wrapped.

Men do not walk wrapped in the middle of the road.


Fascinating observation.

I'm a Christian and go over Bible verses and pick them apart and I do it constantly.  I can understand why the ignorant Muslims would not pick up what you did, but what about the more educated?

Which leads me to ask why a Muslim has not responded to my thread.

Muslims are not in the business of critiquing. Never in history had there been such large volumes of work so devoid of self-criticism.

This little contradiction is a personal observation. Even the most ardent islamocritics did not pick on it and I emailed it to a few of them. They tried to play a devil advocate but could not offer any rebuttal to it.

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