FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  Who is OnlineWho is Online   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
  • Welcome
  • Guest

  • Main Menu
  • Sticky Articles
  • Open Support Tickets
Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)
Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Please Register and Login to this forum to stop seeing this advertising.






Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
Posted:     Post subject:

Back to top
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)  Reply with quote

Salam Muslim brothers and sisters

I have noticed since 9/11 that most Muslims use the following verse to defend against the false accusation that the Quran encourages killing the innocents, letís have a look:

For this reason did We have ordained on the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for another soul or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

[The Quran ; 5:32]

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاء تْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي الأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ (32)

-> Obvioulsy the verse above is not directed at the believers, can you see what it says at the beginning: مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ , Min Ajl Zalik Katabna Ala Bani Israel, i.e. For this reason did We have ordained on the children of Israel, i.e. what was ordained by Allah was SPECIFIC for the children of Israel, which is: that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for another soul or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men , most certainly that this verse is not ordained on the Muslims directly, while I agree that it applies to every human on earth indirectly, yet it canít be used to refute the false accusation against the great Quran, what you should use is the following verse which is ordained on the believers not Bani Israel:

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir an authority: but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the divine law).

[The Quran ; 17:33]

وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلاَ يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا (33)

-> See how celar is the command to the believers: وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ , Wa La Taqttilu Al Nafs Allati Harram Allah Illa Bi Al Haqq, i.e. Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause., and if anyone killed another innocent human then Allah has ordained that the deceased family to force the Qisas, i.e. killing the one who killed, if they wish: And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir an authority, that heir (the deceased family) should not exceed the limit in forcing the Qisas, i.e. only the one who killed should be killed: but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the divine law).


Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tvebak
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 280


Location: Around
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace
_________________
Yes, we have a "soul"; but it's made of lots of tiny robots. - Daniel Dennet

It's mine "." ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace



Hello

Then they should kill the soldiers who came to fight them in their lands, not kill innocent men, women and children, THIS IS WHAT THE 17:33 SAID:

AUTHORITY TO KILL WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE LIMIT

Cheers
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BMZ
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 436



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
All_Brains
Master Administrator
Master Administrator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 632



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:07 am    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.
_________________
A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realized God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.
www.all-brains.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BMZ
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 436



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.


This IS the real side of Islam, A_B. The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls. Evil or Very Mad Wish you were in my home on that day and you would have seen BMZ's family and friends crying, while watching the destruction on television.

BMZ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tvebak
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 280


Location: Around
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace



Hello

Then they should kill the soldiers who came to fight them in their lands, not kill innocent men, women and children, THIS IS WHAT THE 17:33 SAID:

AUTHORITY TO KILL WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE LIMIT

Cheers


Hello

Well it's a case of interpretation. I like your interpretation and view on it better, as A_B is saying, than others which we would be able to find on the internet.

cheers and peace
_________________
Yes, we have a "soul"; but it's made of lots of tiny robots. - Daniel Dennet

It's mine "." ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sanitarium
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 81


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls.

BMZ


Now come on BMZ; you know this isn't true! The media says "Islam is peace!" Those are "Radical Muslims".

I am glad to read your posts here.

-Sani
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BMZ
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 436



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

Sanitarium wrote:
BMZ wrote:
The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls.

BMZ


Now come on BMZ; you know this isn't true! The media says "Islam is peace!" Those are "Radical Muslims".

I am glad to read your posts here.

-Sani


Herein lies the mother of all problems, Sani.

We don't see the International Media Circus (IMC) reporting that Judaism is peace, Christianity is peace, Hinduism is peace, etc.

We also do not see the IMC, reporting that Judaism is peaceful, Christianity is peaceful, Hinduism is people, etc.

Why must they report Islam is a peaceful religion? All religions teach peace but whether the adherents maintained that or not, is another story. In my view, it is wrong to say that such and such religion is peaceful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sanitarium
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 81


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:

Herein lies the mother of all problems, Sani.

We don't see the International Media Circus (IMC) reporting that Judaism is peace, Christianity is peace, Hinduism is peace, etc.

We also do not see the IMC, reporting that Judaism is peaceful, Christianity is peaceful, Hinduism is people, etc.

Why must they report Islam is a peaceful religion? All religions teach peace but whether the adherents maintained that or not, is another story. In my view, it is wrong to say that such and such religion is peaceful.


Yes I agree that the Media singles out Islam as a "religion of peace", but I believe they do that to assuage doubts about the nature of Islam. Most of the time we hear of <such and such a suicide attack> or a <bombing> or many other things done by Muslims (misguided or not). Then we have Muslims stepping up to say that they are "radical Muslims" and "Islam is actually a religion of peace."

So in face of all the violence done by followers of Islam we need to keep being reminded that Islam is peace. That is why the media does it; and I know you and I do not agree on this, but also because the Media is ignorant about the true nature of Islam. To my understanding, the "radicals" are actually fundamentalists, doing what they are supposed to be doing.

But that is a discussion for another time.

Thanks

-Sani

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7
 
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum