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absurdities in the qu'ran
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: absurdities in the qu'ran  Reply with quote

i always post things that are FOR islam so why not post things AGAINST? muslims please reply!

1. you say all humans come from adam and eve. submit your proof! evolution disagrees with you

2. you say that jews were turned into apes and swine. how can you believe that?1

3. you say that the mountains were offered the covenant but they rejected it, and the humans accepted. how can a mountain reject it?

4. allah asked the heaven and earth to come willingly or unwillingly. the earth can not speak though so that does that mean!

5. the ants smiled while solomon was speaking to them. this is ridiculous!
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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: absurdities in the qu'ran Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
3. you say that the mountains were offered the covenant but they rejected it, and the humans accepted. how can a mountain reject it?


Interesting! I’ve never heard of this one before — can you detail a little more about it?

Although not a muslim myself I would like to raise something in response to your first question about Adam as the first human. I have an ‘Arabic root word dictionary that specifically deals with words used in the Qur’an. ‘Abdul Mannan ‘Omar has compiled it using a combination of Classical ‘Arab Dictionaries such as the famous Lisan al–‘Arab, and Edward Lane’s Lexicon Dictionary (among others). He has this to say about Adam:
Quote:
Adam, who lived about 6000 years ago, is generally taken to be the proper name for the first human being. But the Holy Qur’an does not affirm that he was the first man, or that there was no creation before him. The word Khalifah used for Adam in the Holy Qur’an (2:30) is a reference to the fact that he was a remnant or successor of an old race and was selected to bring into being a new moral revolution. The word Khalifah is also used for one who comes after and stands in the place of someone who precedes him.

Ibn ‘Abbas says there were races known as Ginn, Himm and Dinn that lived before Adam, may be he was referring to Neanderthals and similar other races…

Adam was not the first man. Mankind existed even before him, he was a Khalifah, a successor who followed someone.


This I like to view as part of the whole tactic used by religious people (not restricted to muslims) where they twist the meanings of their scriptures to fit current and prevalent scientific understanding.
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: absurdities in the qu'ran Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
3. you say that the mountains were offered the covenant but they rejected it, and the humans accepted. how can a mountain reject it?


Interesting! I’ve never heard of this one before — can you detail a little more about it?

Although not a muslim myself I would like to raise something in response to your first question about Adam as the first human. I have an ‘Arabic root word dictionary that specifically deals with words used in the Qur’an. ‘Abdul Mannan ‘Omar has compiled it using a combination of Classical ‘Arab Dictionaries such as the famous Lisan al–‘Arab, and Edward Lane’s Lexicon Dictionary (among others). He has this to say about Adam:
Quote:
Adam, who lived about 6000 years ago, is generally taken to be the proper name for the first human being. But the Holy Qur’an does not affirm that he was the first man, or that there was no creation before him. The word Khalifah used for Adam in the Holy Qur’an (2:30) is a reference to the fact that he was a remnant or successor of an old race and was selected to bring into being a new moral revolution. The word Khalifah is also used for one who comes after and stands in the place of someone who precedes him.

Ibn ‘Abbas says there were races known as Ginn, Himm and Dinn that lived before Adam, may be he was referring to Neanderthals and similar other races…

Adam was not the first man. Mankind existed even before him, he was a Khalifah, a successor who followed someone.


This I like to view as part of the whole tactic used by religious people (not restricted to muslims) where they twist the meanings of their scriptures to fit current and prevalent scientific understanding.

but ibn abbas lived long ago! 600's AD
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: absurdities in the qu'ran Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
i always post things that are FOR islam so why not post things AGAINST? muslims please reply!

1. you say all humans come from adam and eve. submit your proof! evolution disagrees with you

2. you say that jews were turned into apes and swine. how can you believe that?1

3. you say that the mountains were offered the covenant but they rejected it, and the humans accepted. how can a mountain reject it?

4. allah asked the heaven and earth to come willingly or unwillingly. the earth can not speak though so that does that mean!

5. the ants smiled while solomon was speaking to them. this is ridiculous!


I am very busy in discussing the Absurdities of Christianity and the Bible, in particular the absurdities of the New Testament here and at the Council of Ex-Muslims and would not be able to entertain you and others on this topic, which leads only to intellectual masturbation.

However, I would like to comment on item 2 of yours which can cover almost all the points.

I do not believe that the Jews were turned into apes and swines.

For example, there is a person  who chooses not to understand the message of God, does not believe in when told, disobeys God and Commandments, says that he believes in God but pays no attention to God's words, finds them strange, funny and mocks them and does not care.

In other words, that person stoops to the level of animals and behaves like the animals. There is no difference then between him and an animal.

We can thus tell the person, "Okay, be like apes and swines.", meaning 'Go on and keep behaving like a pig or an ape.'

It doesn't mean we turned that person physically into an ape or swine.

BMZ
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: absurdities in the qu'ran Reply with quote

ibnishaq,

While you are at it, please take a look at this great absurdity allegedly said by Jesus and reported by Matthew.  Laughing  

"Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

How can a mountain hear? It does not have ears. How can a mountain move? It does not have legs.

lol!

BMZ
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmz the bible is not my concern. it is ridiculous too!
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything that Allah created is a creature that has its own method of communicating, Allah even told us that we won't understand them, therefore, the talking and prostrating earth and mountains  can't be an absurdity for a BELIEVER, but I understand that for an unbeliever it may look absured

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
bmz the bible is not my concern. it is ridiculous too!


You've started to see the light my son! Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
bmz the bible is not my concern. it is ridiculous too!


Why do you find it ridiculous, ibnishaq?
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brainout
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Re: absurdities in the qu'ran Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
ibnishaq,

While you are at it, please take a look at this great absurdity allegedly said by Jesus and reported by Matthew.  Laughing  

"Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

How can a mountain hear? It does not have ears. How can a mountain move? It does not have legs.

lol!

BMZ


This is your dishonesty, BMZ -- you ADD THE IDEA of some mountain 'hearing', and distort what the text says, yet you cry bloody murder when Apple Pie LITERALLY FOLLOWS what LANE'S DICTIONARY says as the meaning of an Arabic word.  So YOU are cheating.  I don't care if it's the Bible or the Qu'ran, STOP CHEATING.  What you call an absurdity you INSERT the absurdity, then blame the text for it, as if you didn't insert the problem.  That's eisegesis, and it's cheating.  Makes you and Islam look evil and foolish.

Bible passage here is clear, whether you believe in it, or not:  The Lord speaks a thing into existence, Genesis 1:1, Matthew 4:3.  So He's saying prayer has the same authority, if you believe it, because He confers that authority.  He is not saying the mountains have ears.  Stop cheating.  Disbelieve the Bible and believe the Qu'ran all you want, but STOP CHEATING about what it says.

Look:  I backed you up about alaqa in Sura 86.6 because it means "leech" even in the Hebrew of Proverbs 30:15, same exact word, and that is a GREAT METAPHOR for embryo, you were right.  I won't cheat about that -- never mind Mutley accuses me of being a Muslim every time I say something nice about the Qu'ran or Islam -- I can prove the meaning.  So expect that when I find similar right things in the Qu'ran I'll speak for it, devil take the hindmost.

It would be nice if you would stop lying about what Bible says, and do your homework.  Feel free to debunk it, too.  But stop doing it so INCOMPETENTLY, k?  You look like a fool, every time.  You were famous for this at FFI, and are becoming famous for it here.  You make Islam and Qu'ran look bad when you don't do your homework.


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