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cosmicdancer

"Hit Them!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFGJBW2wWU

Smile
ibnishaq

great video. by the way i was looking at your page and your kids are absolutely adorable! what a lucky man you are to have such sweet kids!
They call me Tater Salad

I second that!  I love the one with you running around the backyard to ELO.  Your kids are also very lucky to have you as a Dad.

I first saw your "Hell" video, and I've watched some of your others, too.  Putting a face and demeanor with your writing sure does give me a better idea of "who" you are. I'm very impressed, all 'round.  You seem like a person that I would like to get to know--too bad you're "across the pond", so to speak!

Keep making the vids!  Very Happy
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
great video. by the way i was looking at your page and your kids are absolutely adorable! what a lucky man you are to have such sweet kids!


hmmm, indeed they are

now how do you reckon the queers should solve this problem of not being lucky because they can't  have children?
AhmedBahgat

Re: "Hit Them!"

cosmicdancer wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFGJBW2wWU

Smile


Hello Hassan

I watched the first half of you video, better sound this time, looka mate the reaosn I abondoned watching it is simply you are manipulating the word Nishooz

you put it simply as to rise up

that is a lie man

bevcause if you read 4:128-129, the Quran is talking about the same thing Nishooz but on the husband side, now according to your flawed understanding, that verse should be talking about husbanding rising up agaisnt their wives, see how yout totally confused the context

the word Nashiz being by a male or a fenales, means ILL CONDUCT, not mere and possible merited rise up

Salam
cosmicdancer

Re: "Hit Them!"

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFGJBW2wWU

Smile


Hello Hassan

I watched the first half of you video, better sound this time, looka mate the reaosn I abondoned watching it is simply you are manipulating the word Nishooz

you put it simply as to rise up

that is a lie man

bevcause if you read 4:128-129, the Quran is talking about the same thing Nishooz but on the husband side, now according to your flawed understanding, that verse should be talking about husbanding rising up agaisnt their wives, see how yout totally confused the context

the word Nashiz being by a male or a fenales, means ILL CONDUCT, not mere and possible merited rise up

Salam


Hi Ahmad, - Ill Conduct is fine and perhaps if I had prepared better I would have included that meaning also - but it doesn't effect the main thrust of what I was saying. (actually I did talk about the man's nushooz later but had to cut it out as the video was getting too long)

I'd be interested in hearing what you think are the sorts of acts that constitute Nushooz (for either or both man and woman).

Are you able to give some specific examples of the sort of ill conduct that would necessitate the 3 steps in this verse?
cosmicdancer

Thanks for the comments ibn ishaq and Tater Salad Smile

Though I think perhaps I need to be a little more animated and lively lol
All_Brains

Hi CD

I am about to watch your video! Very Happy

By the way, Nushooz comes from the root verb "NASHAZa" which means to become irregular, not in harmony, or not in accordance...

An example of music when you say "Hazeh Al-Oghniah Nashazan" which mean this song is out of tune or not melodic!
cosmicdancer

All_Brains wrote:
Hi CD

I am about to watch your video! Very Happy

By the way, Nushooz comes from the root verb "NASHAZa" which means to become irregular, not in harmony, or not in accordance...

An example of music when you say "Hazeh Al-Oghniah Nashazan" which mean this song is out of tune or not melodic!


Yes, thanks AB - my main concern, however is what are the 'specific' acts that consitute nushooz. I mean we really do need to know what exactly are the things that one could be hit for.

As I said in the video - traditional scholars said it meant (in the case of the woman):

1. Leaving the house without the permission of the husband.

2. Not making herself available for sex for him

3. Not beautifying herself.

Nowadays people try to make the act sound more 'serious' and even hint that it is not far removed from adultery.

Most people I talk to don't have a clue what might constitute Nushooz.

It's odd that in the "Clear Book" there is such confusion about what exactly this terrible act of 'Nushooz' is - particularly when one could be "Hit" for it.
AhmedBahgat

Re: "Hit Them!"

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFGJBW2wWU

Smile


Hello Hassan

I watched the first half of you video, better sound this time, looka mate the reaosn I abondoned watching it is simply you are manipulating the word Nishooz

you put it simply as to rise up

that is a lie man

bevcause if you read 4:128-129, the Quran is talking about the same thing Nishooz but on the husband side, now according to your flawed understanding, that verse should be talking about husbanding rising up agaisnt their wives, see how yout totally confused the context

the word Nashiz being by a male or a fenales, means ILL CONDUCT, not mere and possible merited rise up

Salam


cosmicdancer wrote:
Hi Ahmad,


Hello Hassan

cosmicdancer wrote:
- Ill Conduct is fine and perhaps if I had prepared better I would have included that meaning also -


Great that we agree on the meaning of Nashiz

cosmicdancer wrote:
but it doesn't effect the main thrust of what I was saying. (actually I did talk about the man's nushooz later but had to cut it out as the video was getting too long)


Here is the main thrust, please give me valid answers to the following, and I need it from both perspectives ( a believer and a kafir)

Problem: A wife that insists on her ill conduct

Possiblity I: The husband is non Muslim, the perverse wife is also non Muslim

Possibilty II: The husband is a Muslim and the perverse wife claims to be one

Question: what the husband can do to save his beloved and perverse wife in this life and a possible herafter?

Please I need valid answers under both possibilities, cheers

cosmicdancer wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing what you think are the sorts of acts that constitute Nushooz (for either or both man and woman).


I have replied to this many times on many places, it's detailed on my web site:

I can bring hundreds of examples:

Examples of Ill conduct that can be committed by both husband and wife:

1) Drug addiction
2) Unclean (self and house)
3) Ightiab (insulting others behind their backs)
4) Theft
5) Abusing the chidlren
6) Not careing for the eldery parents
7) Spending too much time outside the house with friends while ignoring the family
Cool insulting or beating the other partner for no reason
etc
etc

i can bring more if you wish

cosmicdancer wrote:
Are you able to give some specific examples of the sort of ill conduct that would necessitate the 3 steps in this verse?


of course, here is more for you:

9) Absuing the neighbours
10) Stingy
11) Alcohol drinking
12) Wasting money by spending it for useless and uneeded crap
13) Talking on the phone with friends for hours while ignoring the family needs
14) Spending all day and night watching TV and talk shows while ignoring the family needs
15) Not wearing moderate cloth in public
16) Gambling
etc
etc

what is your solution for the above family not to break up assuming we have a wife or a husband who insists on doing any of the above, dont forget that your solution must be fair by also saving the perverse  partner while solving the other partner problem?

Cheers
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
Hi CD

I am about to watch your video! Very Happy

By the way, Nushooz comes from the root verb "NASHAZa" which means to become irregular, not in harmony, or not in accordance...

An example of music when you say "Hazeh Al-Oghniah Nashazan" which mean this song is out of tune or not melodic!



good point
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
It's odd that in the "Clear Book" there is such confusion about what exactly this terrible act of 'Nushooz' is - particularly when one could be "Hit" for it.



what do you mean by the Clear Book?

it may be understood in English as two things:

1) a book that makes things clear
2) an obvious book (obvious that it is from someone)

however, i really careless about the English meaning, what should stand is the Arabic meaning to the words, "Al Kitab Al Mubin"

please explain your Arabic understanding to the words Al Kitab Al Mubin?

cheers
cosmicdancer

Re: "Hit Them!"

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Problem: A wife that insists on her ill conduct

Possiblity I: The husband is non Muslim, the perverse wife is also non Muslim

Possibilty II: The husband is a Muslim and the perverse wife claims to be one

Question: what the husband can do to save his beloved and perverse wife in this life and a possible herafter?

Please I need valid answers under both possibilities, cheers


The first two steps given in the Qur'an are fine and my answer would be the same for both the Muslim and the non-Muslim.

Seek professional help, counseling. Bring in the extended family, community and friends to help sort it out if appropriate. Ask an Imam/clergyman/Rabbi to help (for those who are religious). If none of this works temporary separation and continue making efforts to sort the problem out.

If all fails then one can consider divorce.

But under no circumstances hit anyone.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Examples of Ill conduct that can be committed by both husband and wife:

1) Drug addiction
2) Unclean (self and house)
3) Ightiab (insulting others behind their backs)
4) Theft
5) Abusing the chidlren
6) Not careing for the eldery parents
7) Spending too much time outside the house with friends while ignoring the family
Cool insulting or beating the other partner for no reason
etc
etc


9) Absuing the neighbours
10) Stingy
11) Alcohol drinking
12) Wasting money by spending it for useless and uneeded crap
13) Talking on the phone with friends for hours while ignoring the family needs
14) Spending all day and night watching TV and talk shows while ignoring the family needs
15) Not wearing moderate cloth in public
16) Gambling
etc
etc


Thanks Ahmad - it is nice to actually pin down some specific examples - I find it so much easier to visualise the whole thing when I know what exactly people consider Nushooz is.

Again all of this is fine - but in no way can I believe that the solution would ever be to hit anyone.

Do you really think that hitting will solve these things?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

what is your solution for the above family not to break up assuming we have a wife or a husband who insists on doing any of the above, donlt forget that your solution must be fair by also saving the wife while solving the husband problem?


My answer would be the same one I gave above.

And  again I stress that definitely do not hit one's wife under ANY circumstances.
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
It's odd that in the "Clear Book" there is such confusion about what exactly this terrible act of 'Nushooz' is - particularly when one could be "Hit" for it.



what do you mean by the Clear Book?

it may be understood in English as two things:

1) a book that makes things clear
2) an obvious book (obvious that it is from someone)

however, i really careless about the English meaning, what should stand is the Arabic meaning to the words, "Al Kitab Al Mubin"

please explain your Arabic understanding to the words Al Kitab Al Mubin?

cheers


The book that makes things clear.
All_Brains

As a professional psychologist I can confirm that hitting or inflecting physical pain or punishment in order to educate or reform, can have traumatic and severe negative consequences and NEVER achieved its purposes.

You can not love and hit, you can't love and torture for eternity!
cosmicdancer

All_Brains wrote:
As a professional psychologist I can confirm that hitting or inflecting physical pain or punishment in order to educate or reform, can have traumatic and severe negative consequences and NEVER achieved its purposes.

You can not love and hit, you can't love and torture for eternity!


Was the video too long and boring?

Pssst.... the answer is: No! It was great, Hassan lol  Wink  - seriously though I think I should have planned it better and kept it shorter - but I did cut out a great deal - it was originally twice as long lol
All_Brains

cosmicdancer wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
As a professional psychologist I can confirm that hitting or inflecting physical pain or punishment in order to educate or reform, can have traumatic and severe negative consequences and NEVER achieved its purposes.

You can not love and hit, you can't love and torture for eternity!


Was the video too long and boring?

Pssst.... the answer is: No! It was great, Hassan lol  Wink  - seriously though I think I should have planned it better and kept it shorter - but I did cut out a great deal - it was originally twice as long lol


My wife and I sat and watched you and the rest of your vids. Who cares about planning, your natural spontaneity comes across as extremely genuine and real.

I think you have a lot of fans already...Don't you ever change! Very Happy
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
It's odd that in the "Clear Book" there is such confusion about what exactly this terrible act of 'Nushooz' is - particularly when one could be "Hit" for it.



what do you mean by the Clear Book?

it may be understood in English as two things:

1) a book that makes things clear
2) an obvious book (obvious that it is from someone)

however, i really careless about the English meaning, what should stand is the Arabic meaning to the words, "Al Kitab Al Mubin"

please explain your Arabic understanding to the words Al Kitab Al Mubin?

cheers


The book that makes things clear.


Obviously you are 100% wrong

you need to refute this to prove your case: YThis is a copy and paste from my web site)

Hello Brothers and Sisters

The enemy of Islam claim that the Quran should make things clear as it claims about itself, while for them it does not make things clear and they also claim that it is obvious from the  many confused Muslims that it does not make things clear, therefore the Quran contradicted itself.

First of all, those confused Muslims can't be held as an evidence against the Quran because the enemy of Islam need to prove that those confused Muslims strictly follow the Quran, however what the enemy of Islam will be able to prove beyond doubt  that those confused Muslims are strictly following something else that is human made called the hadith, indeed on Faithfreedom web site or any anti Islam web site, they only use the hadith to attack Islam, that is why I'm a tough debater for them because I reject submitting a human made evidence to qualify Allah words, that does not mean that I reject all the hadith, I only accept those that are qualified by the Quran, mostly the rituals ones, all guidance that I seek I only seek it from the Quran, therefore I really careless about those confused Muslims because it was their freewill to strictly follow a widely corrupt hadith as a main source of guidance in addition to the Quran, those confused Muslims will find the Quran really hard to understand, they preferred to resort to a sort of Jerry Springer non sense where we see one of the mothers of the believers chatting with a man who were asking about the prophet then she tells him that he went to sleep with his other wives in one night without even bathing in between and when the man wondered how he can do that, he was told that the prophet was given a sexual power of 40 men, in another corrupt hadith, it was said that the prophet was given  a  sexual power of 30 men. A total non sense if you ask me nor it has any guidance rather a clear cut case of defaming a dead human to portray him as a sexually mad man.

Therefore the answer regarding those confused Muslims, yes the Quran will be very hard for them and will never make things clear for them, this is how Allah will punish those who shirk His laws with other non sense that even contradicts His laws. It is called the veil

Now for the enemy of Islam, of course the Quran will be damn hard for them, while they care about but not to follow it rather to do their best to cook an alleged contradiction, therefore they care about it only to attack it, I'm not surprised that it is confusing them, indeed this is what Allah told us exactly about their status, they are sort of the opposite to the first group the confused Muslims

1) The confused Muslims ignored the Quran and only pondered upon the corrupt human hadith
2) The enemy of Islam cared about the Quran but only to cook some Tom and Jerry contradictions then attack it.

On the other hand the two groups have commonalities:

1) Both have veils on their eyes
2) The Quran for both is going to be very hard to understand and follow
3) Both are dumb deaf and blind

What I found really funny that the Quran never claimed that it makes things clear for everyone, in fact the Quran is the hardest book a human will ever read, it needs years and years of pondering after believing in it to reach a high level of understanding it, it is indeed by design a very hard book for the following reasons:

1) It is in Arabic and most humans don't talk Arabic yet it is very hard for the native Arabic speakers
2) Considering the test that all humans are doing in this life, what will be the book that humans are tested in?, it is the Quran of course, now if this is the only book that we must study because we are tested in it then it has to be hard by design, it makes no sense that it will be easy when you read it for the first few times

Look around you and see the testing environment and ask yourself did we need all these environment and elements around us for the test if it is an easy test?, of course not, those zillions of elements around us and inside us are a clear indication of how hard the test is, consequently its text book is going to be very hard as well and consequently many will fail the test when the game is over

Back to the point of the wrong understating of the Quran making things clear, if this is the case then why all that confusion between Muslims sects as well within the same sect itself, look at the sunni and the Quran aloners for example, bloody hell, hundreds of uncertainties, conjectures, self opinions and conflictions, how this is possible if the Quran makes things clear?, indeed it is possible because they follow others things but the Quran, even many Quran aloners follow the man made low desires yet disguising themselves as followers of the Quran alone

Well the lie is this, the word Mubin, مُّبِينٌ, NEVER MEANS to make things clear, it only mean any of the followings:

1) Obvious or Evident
2) Clear
3) Manifest

To make the word Mubin, مُّبِينٌ a verb to make things clear is nothing but a total lie and clear cut case of manipulation, let's see how the Quran explains itself by self referencing itself in an exhaustive manner (I only brought a few examples out of numerous verses):

And they say: This is nothing but clear magic

[The Quran ; 37:15]

وَقَالُوا إِنْ هَذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُّبِينٌ (15)

-> How come the magic makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS MAGIC, or the CLEAR MAGIC, or the MANIFEST MAGIC, that every human can see clearly


And of a truth he saw himself on the clear horizon.

[The Quran ; 81:23]

وَلَقَدْ رَآهُ بِالْأُفُقِ الْمُبِينِ (23)

-> How come the horizon makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS HORIZON, or the CLEAR HORIZON, or the MANIFEST HORIZON, that every human can see clearly


Say: He is the Beneficent Allah, we believe in Him and on Him do we rely, so you shall come to know who it is that is in clear error.

[The Quran ; 67:29]

قُلْ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ آمَنَّا بِهِ وَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْنَا فَسَتَعْلَمُونَ مَنْ هُوَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ (29)

-> How come the error makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS ERROR, or the CLEAR ERROR, or the MANIFEST ERROR, that every human can see clearly, possibly only the believers can clearly see the CLEAR ERROR in this case, the unbelievers will always be dumb deaf and blind, they are like cattle or even worse than that, this how their God describes them.


Or have they the means by which they listen? Then let their listener bring a clear authority.

[The Quran ; 52:38]

أَمْ لَهُمْ سُلَّمٌ يَسْتَمِعُونَ فِيهِ فَلْيَأْتِ مُسْتَمِعُهُم بِسُلْطَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (3Cool

-> How come the authority makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS AUTHORITY, or the CLEAR AUTHORITY, or the MANIFEST AUTHORITY, that every human can see clearly


Surely We have given to you a clear victory

[The Quran ; 48:1]

إِنَّا فَتَحْنَا لَكَ فَتْحًا مُّبِينًا (1)

-> How come the victory makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS VICTORY, or the CLEAR VICTORY, or the MANIFEST VICTORY, that every human can see clearly


Then, as for those who believed and did good works, their Lord will bring them in unto His mercy. That is the evident triumph.

[The Quran ; 45:30]

فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ فَيُدْخِلُهُمْ رَبُّهُمْ فِي رَحْمَتِهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْمُبِينُ (30)

-> How come the triumph makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS TRIUMPH, or the CLEAR TRIUMPH, or the MANIFEST TRIUMPH, that every human can see clearly


And let not the Shaitan prevent you; surely he is your obvious enemy.

[The Quran ; 43:62]

وَلَا يَصُدَّنَّكُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ (62)

-> Now this one is funny, How come the enemymakes things clear? I guess the enemy will always try to make things not clear to us, obviously it means the OBVIOUS ENEMY, or the CLEAR ENEMY, or the MANIFEST ENEMY, that every human can see clearly, indeed the enemy of Islam on FFI is Mubin, LOL


Therefore keep waiting for the day when the heaven shall bring an evident smoke,

[The Quran ; 44:10]

فَارْتَقِبْ يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاء بِدُخَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (10)

-> Here is another funny one, How come the smokemakes things clear? I guess the smoke will make us blind and disoriented LOL, obviously it means the OBVIOUS SMOKE, or the CLEAR SMOKE, or the MANIFEST SMOKE, that every human can see clearly


And We showered Our blessings on him and on Ishaq; and of their offspring are the doers of good, and (also) those who are clearly unjust to their own souls.

[The Quran ; 37:113]

وَبَارَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَعَلَى إِسْحَقَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا مُحْسِنٌ وَظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ مُبِينٌ (113)

-> Now you tell me, how being unjust to their own souls  makes things clear, unless you reckon it means : who are clearly unjust to their own souls., which is a perfect translation to : ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ مُبِينٌ


So he cast down his rod, and lo! it was an obvious serpent,

[The Quran ; 26:32]

فَأَلْقَى عَصَاهُ فَإِذَا هِيَ ثُعْبَانٌ مُّبِينٌ (32)

-> And finally here is the mother of all laughs, How come the snakemakes things clear?, possibly it means An obvious snake, I don't know I will go and ask my 14 years old child and let you know

For the translators to come and translate the following verse:

وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (2)

[The Quran ; 44:2]

as:

YUSUFALI: By the Book that makes things clear;-
PICKTHAL: By the Scripture that maketh plain
SHAKIR: I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).

[The Quran ; 44:2]

are false, misleading and deceitful, it only means, any of the followings:

1) The Obvious Book
2) The Clear Book
3) The Evident Book
4) The Manifest Book

The verb to make never existed in the Arabic verse, bearing in mind  that the verb Yobain, to Explain was never used with the Quran as its entity doing the verb i.e. MuBBayen  with a shadda on the Ba and this is the one that means Make things clear, it is a case of words with identical letters, therefore the context is the only criteria to determine the meaning not the Tom and Jerry flawed root method

The Quran only makes things clear for the ones who sincerely want to be guided for the ones who already believed in the Quran and recognised its calibre that it is from Allah not from a bunch of humans, all the others who follow man made conjectures without being qualified by the Quran will have a seal on their minds, and hearts and they will never be able to understand it, the Quran does not make things clear as it does not really show me how to fix my car, even the scientific facts mentioned in it was put in an unclear manner which sure to serve the purpose of testing and I have no problem with that, in fact the guided ones will see those scientific miracles clearly while others will never be able to comprehend it, but what I found that the Quran does is this:

Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

[The Quran ; 17:9]

إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)


Salam brothers and sisters
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
As a professional psychologist I can confirm that hitting or inflecting physical pain or punishment in order to educate or reform, can have traumatic and severe negative consequences and NEVER achieved its purposes.

You can not love and hit, you can't love and torture for eternity!
then throw her in the street  to meet a possible doom on the JD, don't forget that she claims to be a believer

Unless your love to her will force you to live a perverse woman for the rest of your life

you can't win pal with your scinece
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Obviously you are 100% wrong


You have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact - but I'm afraid it is only your opinion.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you need to refute this to prove your case...


I will try and read that later Ahmad.
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
then throw her in the street  


I must have missed the bit where AB said throw her on the street.

Are you saying that unless you hit her, she will end up on the street?
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Obviously you are 100% wrong


You have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact - but I'm afraid it is only your opinion.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you need to refute this to prove your case...


I will try and read that later Ahmad.


excuse me sir

it was not my opinion

read my comment again, and refute the arabic verses that use the same word, Mubin

you won't be able to dodge it by defaming me, pal

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Obviously you are 100% wrong


You have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact - but I'm afraid it is only your opinion.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you need to refute this to prove your case...


I will try and read that later Ahmad.


excuse me sir

it was not my opinion

read my comment again, and refute the arabic verses that use the same word, Mubin

you won't be able to dodge it by defaming me, pal

cheers


What point are you making Ahmed? Are you saying the Qur'an is not clear? And doesn't make things clear?
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Obviously you are 100% wrong


You have a habit of presenting your opinion as fact - but I'm afraid it is only your opinion.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you need to refute this to prove your case...


I will try and read that later Ahmad.


excuse me sir

it was not my opinion

read my comment again, and refute the arabic verses that use the same word, Mubin

you won't be able to dodge it by defaming me, pal

cheers


What point are you making Ahmed? Are you saying the Qur'an is not clear? And doesn't make things clear?


again Hassan

it is you who claimed the Quran to be making things clear, now I'm asking you to please show me where in the Arabic Quran we read as such

when you fail to do so I will answer your question regarding if the Quran make things clear or not

cheers
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
then throw her in the street  


I must have missed the bit where AB said throw her on the street.

Are you saying that unless you hit her, she will end up on the street?


no,

what I'm saying that I will give one more shot at hitt8ing her to make her save herelf before I throw her in the street for an possibly assured doom, also using her insistance on her ill conduct I may be successful to take custody of the children

see, an ill perver wife who insists on her ill conduct while claiming to be a believer has one option indeed, to fix her ill conduct

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
it is you who claimed the Quran to be making things clear, now I'm asking you to please show me where in the Arabic Quran we read as such

when you fail to do so I will answer your question regarding if the Quran make things clear or not

cheers


OK, for example verse 1 of Surat Yusuf - here are three translations:

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

And here is the tafseer of As-Sabuni - and I quote:

“Kitabun Mubeen, means miraculous in its clarity, blindingly obvious in it’s evidences and proofs, clear in it’s meaning, no doubt about it’s facts and no confusion in it’s details.”

But let me assume that these people are wrong - and only you are right Ahmad.

Tell me what point are you trying to make? Are you saying the Qur'an not a clear book and does not make things clear?
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
what I'm saying that I will give one more shot at hitting her to make her save herelf


I can't imagine hitting one's wife is ever going to work under any circumstances - and I have certainly never heard of any.

But I can imagine many men using this verse as an excuse to mistreat their wives - and I certainly do know of many such cases. (my father being one.)

Let me ask you this Ahmad - and please think about it honestly before replying. Don't you think over the 1400 years since this verse was 'revealed' - it has done more harm (by allowing bad Muslims to use it as an excuse to beat up their wives over trivial things) than good (by solving marital problems)?

Be honest?
Tvebak

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
it is you who claimed the Quran to be making things clear, now I'm asking you to please show me where in the Arabic Quran we read as such

when you fail to do so I will answer your question regarding if the Quran make things clear or not

cheers


OK, for example verse 1 of Surat Yusuf - here are three translations:

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

And here is the tafseer of As-Sabuni - and I quote:

“Kitabun Mubeen, means miraculous in its clarity, blindingly obvious in it’s evidences and proofs, clear in it’s meaning, no doubt about it’s facts and no confusion in it’s details.”

But let me assume that these people are wrong - and only you are right Ahmad.

Tell me what point are you trying to make? Are you saying the Qur'an not a clear book and does not make things clear?


Hello Hassan

I'm not sure what Ahmed means when he's stipulating that "Kitabun Mubeen" means:

Ahmed wrote:
1) The Obvious Book
2) The Clear Book
3) The Evident Book
4) The Manifest Book


In relation to fx the serpent it seems that he argues that it means that we are all able to see that it's a book (or scripture). Though this would mean that it was a scripture from day-one in this world, which it itself state it is not. Furthermore it seems like a silly statement repeating over and over again; "See it's scriptures/a book". The statement that it is a clear book, understood as a book easy to understand or a book that explains things, would make more sense in a religious perspective.

Concerning the quran not being a clear book he argued this:

Quote:
The Quran only makes things clear for the ones who sincerely want to be guided for the ones who already believed in the Quran and recognised its calibre that it is from Allah not from a bunch of humans, all the others who follow man made conjectures without being qualified by the Quran will have a seal on their minds, and hearts and they will never be able to understand it, the Quran does not make things clear as it does not really show me how to fix my car, even the scientific facts mentioned in it was put in an unclear manner which sure to serve the purpose of testing and I have no problem with that, in fact the guided ones will see those scientific miracles clearly while others will never be able to comprehend it, but what I found that the Quran does is this:

Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

[The Quran ; 17:9]

إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)


Ie. a circular argument that the quran is clear, but only if you believe it's clear. Again there's only "scientific miracles" in the book if you believe and is guided that there's "scientific miracles" in the book.

Peace
Tvebak

Re: "Hit Them!"

cosmicdancer wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFGJBW2wWU

Smile


Oh and I liked your video a lot. Great touch with the props. And your own reaction when you used them tapping yourself was just showing your opinion concerning the "explanations", lol.

All the best
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
it is you who claimed the Quran to be making things clear, now I'm asking you to please show me where in the Arabic Quran we read as such

when you fail to do so I will answer your question regarding if the Quran make things clear or not

cheers


OK, for example verse 1 of Surat Yusuf - here are three translations:

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

And here is the tafseer of As-Sabuni - and I quote:

“Kitabun Mubeen, means miraculous in its clarity, blindingly obvious in it’s evidences and proofs, clear in it’s meaning, no doubt about it’s facts and no confusion in it’s details.”


I'm sorry sir, all are 100% wrong, the word Mubin means Obvious, it never means "to make things clear"

even if I prnounce it as "Mubbayan", then it should mean "Explained"

whatever you want to take it, it never means to make things clear:

1) pronounced Mubin = Obvious, i.e. the Obvious Quran
2) pronounced Mubbayan (a shaddah on the Baand a fatiha on the Ya) = Explained, i.e. the Explained Quran

don't forget that Allah said in the Quran, Inna Alayna Bayanahu, i.e. Explaining the Quran is on the onus of Allah , therefore it is valis to cosider possibilty 2 above, i.e. the Explained Quran

Now the Quran is explained to who?, of course to the believers in the Quran, and I stress not the kafiroon nor the Mushrikoon

cosmicdancer wrote:

But let me assume that these people are wrong -


It can't be an assumption, sir

it is a fact and based on the Quran and the many verses I posted which you refuted none

cosmicdancer wrote:

and only you are right Ahmad.


There are many like me on whom Allah bestwed His favours to make us understand the Quran and spread its message while explaining it to many

cosmicdancer wrote:

Tell me what point are you trying to make? Are you saying the Qur'an not a clear book and does not make things clear?


of course the Quran does not make things clear for the Kafiroon nor the Mushrikoon,

are you kiddin me pal to think that for a kafir like you it should make things clear, haha, very funny mate

cheers
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
it is you who claimed the Quran to be making things clear, now I'm asking you to please show me where in the Arabic Quran we read as such

when you fail to do so I will answer your question regarding if the Quran make things clear or not

cheers


OK, for example verse 1 of Surat Yusuf - here are three translations:

012.001
YUSUFALI: A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book.
PICKTHAL: Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain.
SHAKIR: Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest.

And here is the tafseer of As-Sabuni - and I quote:

“Kitabun Mubeen, means miraculous in its clarity, blindingly obvious in it’s evidences and proofs, clear in it’s meaning, no doubt about it’s facts and no confusion in it’s details.”

But let me assume that these people are wrong - and only you are right Ahmad.

Tell me what point are you trying to make? Are you saying the Qur'an not a clear book and does not make things clear?


Hello Hassan

I'm not sure what Ahmed means when he's stipulating that "Kitabun Mubeen" means:

Ahmed wrote:
1) The Obvious Book
2) The Clear Book
3) The Evident Book
4) The Manifest Book


In relation to fx the serpent it seems that he argues that it means that we are all able to see that it's a book (or scripture). Though this would mean that it was a scripture from day-one in this world, which it itself state it is not. Furthermore it seems like a silly statement repeating over and over again; "See it's scriptures/a book". The statement that it is a clear book, understood as a book easy to understand or a book that explains things, would make more sense in a religious perspective.

Concerning the quran not being a clear book he argued this:

Quote:
The Quran only makes things clear for the ones who sincerely want to be guided for the ones who already believed in the Quran and recognised its calibre that it is from Allah not from a bunch of humans, all the others who follow man made conjectures without being qualified by the Quran will have a seal on their minds, and hearts and they will never be able to understand it, the Quran does not make things clear as it does not really show me how to fix my car, even the scientific facts mentioned in it was put in an unclear manner which sure to serve the purpose of testing and I have no problem with that, in fact the guided ones will see those scientific miracles clearly while others will never be able to comprehend it, but what I found that the Quran does is this:

Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

[The Quran ; 17:9]

إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)


Ie. a circular argument that the quran is clear, but only if you believe it's clear. Again there's only "scientific miracles" in the book if you believe and is guided that there's "scientific miracles" in the book.

Peace



TV

you need to butt out, the message in 17:9 is for the BELIEVERS, not you

cheers
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:
what I'm saying that I will give one more shot at hitting her to make her save herelf


cosmicdancer wrote:
I can't imagine hitting one's wife is ever going to work under any circumstances - and I have certainly never heard of any.


I certainly heard of many


cosmicdancer wrote:
But I can imagine many men using this verse as an excuse to mistreat their wives - and I certainly do know of many such cases. (my father being one.)



so?, will they escape Allah?

of course not if He exists, see the keyword you used, mistreat their wives, i.e. accoridng to 4:128-129, the husbands are guilty of ILL CONDUCT, hahahahahaah

cosmicdancer wrote:
Let me ask you this Ahmad - and please think about it honestly before replying. Don't you think over the 1400 years since this verse was 'revealed' - it has done more harm (by allowing bad Muslims to use it as an excuse to beat up their wives over trivial things) than good (by solving marital problems)?


Not really, because the bad people will beat their wives regardless, hahahahahah, see, did you read the domestic violence stats I posted earlier?

cosmicdancer wrote:

Be honest?


of course I'm, there is no reason for me to be dishonest, this is because I fear Allah and I fear no human
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:


of course the Quran does not make things clear for the Kafiroon nor the Mushrikoon,

are you kiddin me pal to think that for a kafir like you it should make things clear, haha, very funny mate

cheers


So you're saying only those who already believe find the Qur'an obvious.

While those who don't believe do not find it obvious.

Then how is the Qur'an supposed to convince those who don't believe?
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:

cosmicdancer wrote:
I can't imagine hitting one's wife is ever going to work under any circumstances - and I have certainly never heard of any.


I certainly heard of many


Could you relate some? I'd be interested to hear how hitting one's wife has saved a marriage.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
the bad people will beat their wives regardless, hahahahahah


Having divine sanction for hitting doesn't help. From my own experience (my wife worked with Muslim women's refuge) this verse is used as an excuse a great many times.

Can you say truthfully that this verse has not made things worse?

AhmedBahgat wrote:
did you read the domestic violence stats I posted earlier?


Anyone with any experience of Muslim communities will tell you that official statistics mean very little. All the women my wife worked with did not appear on any statistics.
cosmicdancer

All_Brains - did you see Marwa replied to this video!

I tried to be as diplomatic as I could.

I think she has one eye on people looking at her and how she reacts.
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:


of course the Quran does not make things clear for the Kafiroon nor the Mushrikoon,

are you kiddin me pal to think that for a kafir like you it should make things clear, haha, very funny mate

cheers


cosmicdancer wrote:
So you're saying only those who already believe find the Qur'an obvious.


Of course, hence their belief

cosmicdancer wrote:

While those who don't believe do not find it obvious.


Of course, hence their disbelief

cosmicdancer wrote:

Then how is the Qur'an supposed to convince those who don't believe?


If they are not baised and arrogant ot the message and submit to the one and only God, I'm sure He will make it obvious to them

don't you know that Allah hates the arrogant against His message?

did you even read about the seal and veil upon the disbelievers?
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:

cosmicdancer wrote:
I can't imagine hitting one's wife is ever going to work under any circumstances - and I have certainly never heard of any.


I certainly heard of many


cosmicdancer wrote:

Could you relate some?



No, I won't disclose the family secrets that I know about some

cosmicdancer wrote:

I'd be interested to hear how hitting one's wife has saved a marriage.


simple the wife was insisting on her conduct, the husband tried to advice her polietly, she insisted on her ill conduct the husband left the bed, yet she insisted on her ill conduct, the hudband had enough and beat her with firm threat that this is the last time and she will be thrown in the streets and not see her children again, the wife fixed her ill conduct, and the marriage survived

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?

AhmedBahgat wrote:
the bad people will beat their wives regardless, hahahahahah



cosmicdancer wrote:
Having divine sanction for hitting doesn't help. From my own experience (my wife worked with Muslim women's refuge) this verse is used as an excuse a great many times.


Well, it seems that you and your wife and may other so called Muslim cannot use the same verse to expose any ill doing by the husband

cosmicdancer wrote:

Can you say truthfully that this verse has not made things worse?


100%


AhmedBahgat wrote:
did you read the domestic violence stats I posted earlier?


cosmicdancer wrote:

Anyone with any experience of Muslim communities will tell you that official statistics mean very little. All the women my wife worked with did not appear on any statistics.


prove it or shut up
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:

If they are not baised and arrogant ot the message and submit to the one and only God, I'm sure He will make it obvious to them


But I thought you just said that if they don't believe it is not obvious to them - so I don't understand what you are saying here?

Do you mean they must believe first? Or simply show sincerity or honesty etc...?

What if they still don't believe - despite their sincerity and honesty...?

Also how come there are Muslims themselves who are very sincere and honest - but don't find the Qur'an 'obvious' and lose their faith in it?

Did God not make it obvious to them?

Why?

Why doesn't God make it obvious to everyone?

Are all those who don't find the Qur'an obvious, insincere, dishonest, deceitful and arrogant?

Are all those who see it as obvious, sincere, honest, truthful and humble?

Do you regard yourself as humble or arrogant?
Baal

As usual Ahmed, you try to fill one hole by digging another hole.
Quote:
simple the wife was insisting on her conduct, the husband tried to advice her polietly, she insisted on her ill conduct the husband left the bed, yet she insisted on her ill conduct, the hudband had enough and beat her with firm threat that this is the last time and she will be thrown in the streets and not see her children again, the wife fixed her ill conduct, and the marriage survived

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?

Yes, she will be thrown on the streets because the alimony is for the period of Iddat or 1 year if the country is not following the Sharia closely.

Also she won't see her children because of the Sharia.

Thank you Ahmed for clarifying, I hope women are reading what Ahmed wrote. And know that Ahmed is one of the most honest muslims I have met and talked to. of course he is not 100% honest but he is the most honest I have met.

You turn 40 or 50 or 60 in a country that does not favor your education or your career. And if your husband wills, you will be out in the street and receive an alimony for 1 year. Unless your husband is a decent human being and decide to pay you more of course. But that will be more like charity and the amount will be up to his judgement.

Frankly, he does not even 'need' to throw you out on the street. He only needs to threaten you he will. As long as you are home cleaning the house and making his tea. And if he makes some more money, as long as you accept a Second wife.


Of course when he remarries, the new wife will not at all, appreciate too much money being spent on you, the old wife.
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:

Can you say truthfully that this verse has not made things worse?


100%


Wow - you are 100% certain.

What is this iron-clad evidence you have that proves 100% that this verse has never made things worse?

AhmedBahgat wrote:


cosmicdancer wrote:

Anyone with any experience of Muslim communities will tell you that official statistics mean very little. All the women my wife worked with did not appear on any statistics.


prove it or shut up


Why do you have to talk in such a rude and arrogant manner.

I just said it was not on any stats but my own and my wife's experience - and so I cannot provide any proof. But I am still entitled to relate it - and I don't have to "shut up" as you say.

Just as you are entitled to give your 'opinion' that this verse has never made things worse.
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:

If they are not baised and arrogant ot the message and submit to the one and only God, I'm sure He will make it obvious to them


cosmicdancer wrote:

But I thought you just said that if they don't believe it is not obvious to them - so I don't understand what you are saying here?


yep, you won't understand in an hour or two, you need some bloody years to do so, in in all those years, you should have no bloody doubt and histation to continue your belief

for you however you want to find holes in it to justify your unbelief, and I can assure you it won't work with any one acting like you

cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you mean they must believe first?


of course they must believe first, then the life time struggle of submission

cosmicdancer wrote:

Or simply show sincerity or honesty etc...?


to believe means that you are sincere and honest to the conceot of God, but to read the Quran trying to pick holes and gaps in it then that can't be described as being honest and sincere, you can only try to find gaps and holes if you are not a believer and that is what you are

cosmicdancer wrote:

What if they still don't believe - despite their sincerity and honesty...?


well, no one can say if they are sincere regarding the God, not even yourself can claim as such about yourself, IT IS GOING TO BE ONLY ALLAH WHO WILL KNOW THAT

possibly the people may be folling themselves that they are honest and sincere

cosmicdancer wrote:

Also how come there are Muslims themselves who are very sincere and honest - but don't find the Qur'an 'obvious' and lose their faith in it?


I have to dismiss the above because no one can know who is sincere, you can only assume as such about others

cosmicdancer wrote:

Did God not make it obvious to them?


Of course

cosmicdancer wrote:

Why?


Because their approaching attitude


cosmicdancer wrote:

Why doesn't God make it obvious to everyone?


Because it is not a free ride


cosmicdancer wrote:

Are all those who don't find the Qur'an obvious, insincere, dishonest, deceitful and arrogant?


Allah is the only one to know, but I can assume that they are at least one of those descriptions

cosmicdancer wrote:

Are all those who see it as obvious, sincere, honest, truthful and humble?


same as before, we just don't know nor even we can know that they are true believers, only Allah knos that

cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you regard yourself as humble or arrogant?


I regard myself as both,

Humble to Allah and arrogant against those who dispute His signs
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Many reasons - and I am not saying this verse is the only or even the main reason why men hit their wives. But it certainly doesn't help the situation.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
As usual Ahmed, you try to fill one hole by digging another hole.


Statements like that has no place but the rubbish bin

It's the typical Kafir tactics, and is not going to work with me pal


Quote:
simple the wife was insisting on her conduct, the husband tried to advice her polietly, she insisted on her ill conduct the husband left the bed, yet she insisted on her ill conduct, the hudband had enough and beat her with firm threat that this is the last time and she will be thrown in the streets and not see her children again, the wife fixed her ill conduct, and the marriage survived

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Quote:

Yes, she will be thrown on the streets because the alimony is for the period of Iddat or 1 year if the country is not following the Sharia closely.


holy crap, the above coonfusion is dismissed

Quote:

Also she won't see her children because of the Sharia.


I donlt give a fuk about your sharia, an ill conduct mother who insists on her conduct should have no conatct with her children, they even prevented Britney from seeing her children until she fixes her ill conduct

Quote:

Thank you Ahmed for clarifying, I hope women are reading what Ahmed wrote. And know that Ahmed is one of the most honest muslims I have met and talked to. of course he is not 100% honest but he is the most honest I have met.


The typical kafir tactics,, look pal  I have to dismiss the rest of your crap, this is because no human can know who is hnonest and to what level and who is not

Quote:

You turn 40 or 50 or 60 in a country that does not favor your education or your career. And if your husband wills, you will be out in the street and receive an alimony for 1 year. Unless your husband is a decent human being and decide to pay you more of course. But that will be more like charity and the amount will be up to his judgement.

Frankly, he does not even 'need' to throw you out on the street. He only needs to threaten you he will. As long as you are home cleaning the house and making his tea. And if he makes some more money, as long as you accept a Second wife.


Of course when he remarries, the new wife will not at all, appreciate too much money being spent on you, the old wife.


dismissed
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Many reasons - and I am not saying this verse is the only or even the main reason why men hit their wives. But it certainly doesn't help the situation.



Excuse me sir


if the problem exists without this verse then sorry you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God

see, you will never believe with such attitude, TRUST ME
AhmedBahgat

See the kafirs on this thread are missing a very important point

the verse is directed at those pious husbands,

now if non pious husbands manipulate the verse to abuse their non ill conduct wives then the same verse will be uses against them (the husbands) when the account for every action is given by us

now the Quran is a test for those who claim to be believers as well for those unbelievers

ironically, we see both of them, some those who claim to be believers and some of those who claim to be unbelievers, are manipulating the Quran verses to suit their own low desires

both won't be able to escape the account day
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile


That is right, you are defending the man made god you made to yourself who suppose to created us then hidden himlse ffrom us and never worried about us again, yep the free ride you are after

i had enough of this dicussion mate, let's move on to the next thing that made you leave Islam,

so far:

1) Hell
2) Hitting the ill conduct wives


what else mate?, or the abve was enough to leave the belief in Allah?

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile


That is right, you are defending the man made god you made to yourself who suppose to created us then hidden himlse ffrom us and never worried about us again, yep the free ride you are after

i had enough of this dicussion mate, let's move on to the next thing that made you leave Islam,

so far:

1) Hell
2) Hitting the ill conduct wives


what else mate?, or the abve was enough to leave the belief in Allah?

cheers


lol... ok Ahmad, perhaps I'll make another video soon and we can chat some more.

Take care Smile
All_Brains

Ahmed

Your Nisaa surah is perfect for middle east/3rd world type of culture, where the man is clearly dominant and decides the Nushooz of his woman.

You live in Australia, a country where hitting your own wife is a punishable crime. The entire western world realised through psychology the severe consequence of physical punishment.

You're an Arab Egyptian through and through, you probably were hit by your parents and school teachers growing up in Egypt, hitting has become normal and accepted to you!! What would happen if a Muslim husband hits his wife here in Australia because she simply left home to visit a friend without permission??? What would happen if your kid gets hit at school by a teacher in Aussie??

You know very well the answers to the above!

Now, another thing that skipped you! Women do not need to be saved by men! Women in the western world including the country you live in, have careers, jobs, own money, own opinion, circle of friends and own activities and hobbies.

Hitting does not save marriages and correct ill-conducts, it actually does the following:

1. If you're in a Muslim/3rd world country, hitting your wife and children is quite accepted as a method of discipline.

It also keep marriages together using fear, women usually cease the love their husbands and their lives and just live like zombies waiting for the next beating...How pathetic and sad!

2. If you are in a country like Australia, man and woman are life and journey partners, they share all life's decisions and use dialogue to fix differences in opinion. They stay together because they want to and love each other, NOT because the woman is afraid of her man!!!

Your God who keeps human on the right path by mainly showing the teeth of his hell, follows the very same logic of keeping women in line...by giving men the authority to judge their ill-conduct and physically punish them!!

I will have to give you one thing, your God is very consistent!
HomoErectus

Dear A_B

This article is supporting what you said above !

Its about Australia !



Quote:


Muslims speak up about domestic violence
(DPA)

21 February 2008


SYDNEY - Women and children are beaten by their menfolk in homes across Australia. Mostly the spur to domestic violence is alcohol but sometimes cultural mores are at work that allow men to excuse their behaviour.


“They view wives and daughters as an extension of their honour and when they deviate from what they would view as accepted ... they see it as an undermining of their own status,” said Sydney psychiatrist Tanveer Ahmed.

He was talking about violence in Muslim homes and commenting specifically on a call from the Muslim Women’s National Network Australia (MWNNA) to tackle those in the community who use religion to justify domestic violence.

“It’s a real problem,” MWNNA president Aziza Abdel-Halim told The Sydney Morning Herald. “There’s wife beating, there’s children beating. Some of them go to the extent of forbidding the woman to leave the home.”

Ahmed said Muslim victims of domestic violence were reluctant to go to the police. If they went to the imam of their mosque, he was likely to side with the perpetrator.

“Very rarely would you get the imam trying to punish the man,” he said. “They’ll see it more as, if not culturally appropriate, then culturally understandable.”


AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
Ahmed


Hello

All_Brains wrote:
Your Nisaa surah


Sorry, it's not mine, it is Allah's

All_Brains wrote:
is perfect for middle east/3rd world type of culture,



and to the believers in ant age or generation


All_Brains wrote:
where the man is clearly dominant and decides the Nushooz of his woman.


and the wpoman also can decide if her husband is Nashiz or not and can seek divorce based on that, 4:128-129

Now regarding dominance, well in all western countries the males are the dominiant in almost everything

All_Brains wrote:
You live in Australia, a country where hitting your own wife is a punishable crime.



That is why I will never hit my wife even if she is nashiz, and that is to protect myself against the infidel flawed laws

for me, if my wife is nashiz then I will divorce her and marry another out of millions around the globe, and will continue doing so until I find a pious wife


All_Brains wrote:
The entire western world realised through psychology the severe consequence of physical punishment.


physical punishment for no reason, it can't be valid, but for insistance on ill conduct reason, then physical punishment is valid

now let me tell you, that even going to jail carry  severe psychologicalconsequence

All_Brains wrote:
You're an Arab Egyptian through and through, you probably were hit by your parents and school teachers growing up in Egypt,


can't even rememebr that it happened

All_Brains wrote:
hitting has become normal and accepted to you!!



for no reason, no

but for the insistance of ill conduct then yes it has to be normal

All_Brains wrote:
What would happen if a Muslim husband hits his wife here in Australia because she simply left home to visit a friend without permission???



that can not be an ill conduct, however if it upsets the husband the first time and he adviced her not to do then she insisted on doing it then we have two other options to try then divorce

All_Brains wrote:
What would happen if your kid gets hit at school by a teacher in Aussie??


well, a kid is still learing life, but a married wife who claims to be a Muslim, will have no fukin excuse than her insuatnce on the ill conduct

All_Brains wrote:

You know very well the answers to the above!


and it seems that you don't know it


All_Brains wrote:
Now, another thing that skipped you! Women do not need to be saved by men! Women in the western world including the country you live in, have careers, jobs, own money, own opinion, circle of friends and own activities and hobbies.


and get involoved in many ill conducts daily, also the malles in australia are still dominanent over the females

did Australia ever have a female PM?

how many women in all ministers, do you know?

did america ever had a female president?

[quote="All_Brains"]Hitting does not save marriages and correct ill-conducts,[/quoyte]


it certainly has a chance to save

All_Brains wrote:
it actually does the following:


let me see

All_Brains wrote:
1. If you're in a Muslim/3rd world country, hitting your wife and children is quite accepted as a method of discipline.


and is still acceoted in many other western countries, in fact in Australia many lobbies support smacking the ill conduct children

All_Brains wrote:
It also keep marriages together using fear, women usually cease the love their husbands and their lives and just live like zombies waiting for the next beating...How pathetic and sad!


sorry, what you are talking about is domestic violence, not what 4:34 is taling about of a pious Muslim and his ill coonduct wife.

All_Brains wrote:
2. If you are in a country like Australia, man and woman are life and journey partners, they share all life's decisions and use dialogue to fix differences in opinion.


wrong

the males in Australia are the dominant

let;s take sir Paul Mcarthey as an example, see how he is fuking his wife hard?

he only wants to give her 100 mill,  out of his 2 bill

see, is Paul actiojn towards his estranged wife fair to you?

All_Brains wrote:
They stay together because they want to and love each other, NOT because the woman is afraid of her man!!!


hahaha, are you living your barbie world

a male who continue to live with an ill conduct wiofe must be committing ill conduct himself

All_Brains wrote:
Your God who keeps human on the right path by mainly showing the teeth of his hell, follows the very same logic of keeping women in line...by giving men the authority to judge their ill-conduct and physically punish them!!


please stop resorting to the Tutty Fruit fallacy

All_Brains wrote:
I will have to give you one thing, your God is very consistent!


of course He is

salam
Baal

Ahmed,

Your defence is pure "Because I would never do it" and then a whole bunch of tu coque about the west. You can do better.

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