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ibnishaq

4:16, arabic speakers please!

Hi everyone! ok so i read on a site that 4"16 of qu'ran was speaking of homosexuals. but then i looked at translations and they differed and found out that scholars disagreed about this all throughout history.

وَٱلَّذَانِ يَأۡتِيَـٰنِهَا مِنڪُمۡ فَـَٔاذُوهُمَا‌ۖ فَإِن تَابَا وَأَصۡلَحَا فَأَعۡرِضُواْ عَنۡهُمَآ‌ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ ڪَانَ تَوَّابً۬ا رَّحِيمًا
Waallathani ya/tiyaniha minkum faathoohuma fa-in taba waaslaha faaAAridoo AAanhuma inna Allaha kana tawwaban raheeman

Sale - And if two of you commit the like [wickedness], punish them both: But if they repent and amend, let them both alone; for God is easy to be reconciled and merciful.

Rodwell - And if two men among you commit the same crime, then punish them both; but if they turn and amend, then let them be: for God is He who turneth, Merciful!


Palmer - And if two of you commit it, then hurt them both; but if they turn again and amend, leave them alone, verily, God is easily turned, compassionate.

Arberry - And when two of you commit indecency, punish them both; but if they repent and make amends, then suffer them to be; God turns, and is All-compassionate.

Khalifa - The couple who commits adultery shall be punished. If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

Sher Ali - And if two from among you are guilty of it, punish them both. And if they repent and amend, then leave them alone; surely ALLAH is Oft-Returning with compassion and is ever Merciful.

Shakir - And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

Khan - And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. And if they repent (promise Allah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allah is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful.

Ali - If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Rodwell - And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be. Lo! Allah is ever relenting, Merciful.


vrse 15 speaks about women who are guilty of lewdness and that if they are then have 4 witnesses and they will be punished to solidary confinement. so some of the translators say that vrse 16 is just saying that if someone is guilty of lewdness(the adulterers) that they should be punished, unless they repent. so it is like "If a woman is guilty of lewdness and there are 4 wiensses, put her in solidary confinement. if they are guilty, punish them both, unless they repent and amend."

BUT, then some like Ali say it is speaking about gays. same with rodwell. they think that vrse 15 is about women who commit fornication and then 6 is about gays, so it just sort of switches topic.

imam shaf'ii thought it was speaking about just adultery and not about gays. but ibn abas said it ws about gays.

so what does the arabic say? i know that rajul or rejal is not used in there so idk!
AhmedBahgat

Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males


Agreed! Allah hates queers, specially those who are genetically that way. Allah hates his own creatures!
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males


Agreed! Allah hates queers, specially those who are genetically that way. Allah hates his own creatures!


I never talked about hate in my comment really, so what are you agreeing on exactly?

on the other hand I don'y buy such crap by the queers that they are such way genetically,, simply the males either like to fuk other males in the anus or getting fuked in the anus, they also love sucking dicks, for the females howveer they like licking pussies and sucking nipples

cheers
Baal

Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".
ibnishaq

Baal wrote:
Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".

yea that is what i was thinking that it was not just as simple as one would think.

i also heard about some masculine ending to a word though with the dual or something. is that true?
ibnishaq

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males


Agreed! Allah hates queers, specially those who are genetically that way. Allah hates his own creatures!


I never talked about hate in my comment really, so what are you agreeing on exactly?

on the other hand I don'y buy such crap by the queers that they are such way genetically,, simply the males either like to fuk other males in the anus or getting fuked in the anus, they also love sucking dicks, for the females howveer they like licking pussies and sucking nipples

cheers

ahmed this is a reason i am still not a muslim. i have heard many scholars say(and correctly say) that god would not make someone a homosexual and then punish them in hell because of it!

but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".


wrong pal, this is because the verse before it which taljs about the same thing is talking about females only

you are dismissed for being confused
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males


Agreed! Allah hates queers, specially those who are genetically that way. Allah hates his own creatures!


I never talked about hate in my comment really, so what are you agreeing on exactly?

on the other hand I don'y buy such crap by the queers that they are such way genetically,, simply the males either like to fuk other males in the anus or getting fuked in the anus, they also love sucking dicks, for the females howveer they like licking pussies and sucking nipples

cheers

ahmed this is a reason i am still not a muslim. i have heard many scholars say(and correctly say) that god would not make someone a homosexual and then punish them in hell because of it!

but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.



that's right, all sinners will say, we didn't chose to be so, actually there a verse in the Quran that implies the same

see, if you go to jail, you should hear from all inmates that they are innocent

cheers
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.


you have been traped in the devil perverse sexual thoughts

try harder to beat him or he will take you with him into a burning fire
HomoErectus

AhmedBahgat wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:



ahmed this is a reason i am still not a muslim. i have heard many scholars say(and correctly say) that god would not make someone a homosexual and then punish them in hell because of it!

but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.



of course Allah condemned hosexuality big times in the Quran, he called such people, the ones who do the KHABA'ITH

Now to answer your question above, we should continue to harm them for as long as they insist on their crime against the laws of Allah

for example if the harm is like 3 months in jail, then if they do it again when they come out, then we jail them again and again

----------

Well, If I'm a law maker then I have to apply 4:11 & 4:12 over the gays the lesbians

for me, it can be considered Zina and I will look seriously in applying the punishment of Zina (100 lashes in public as well a group of belivers must witness their punishment)

now if for whatever reason they can't be lashed (medical reasons for example) then 1 year in solitary confinment will be a satisfactory punishment for their crime, the reason for solitary confinment is to prevent them from trying it with other inmates, the whole point is to make them repent so they will be saved if Allah exists

there should be no capital punsihment for the gays and lesbians as far as I see from the Quran.




Thats what ahmed wrote in the thread about homosexuality...

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/ftopic181-0-asc-0.php

Saying, that if he was the judge, he wouldn't downright have you killed, but he would sentence you to 100 lashes, 3 months in solitary confinement, repeatedly, as long as it takes, to make you break !!

And he sure wouldn't mind if you die in jail, as a follow-up to the 100 lashes, infections, disease, whatever...

Say "thank you, your '[dis]honor' judge ahmed !"

Despite that we all know that homosexuals are getting killed in REALITY, in islamic lands... in numbers, every year the same...

Despite the fact that homsexuality is well "at home" in islamic lands, due to the next fact - sexual deprivation of muslims in their younger years, naturally the steaming sexuality has to find some relief somewhere...

Its another case of pure hypocrisy !

.
AhmedBahgat

HomoErectus wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:



ahmed this is a reason i am still not a muslim. i have heard many scholars say(and correctly say) that god would not make someone a homosexual and then punish them in hell because of it!

but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.



of course Allah condemned hosexuality big times in the Quran, he called such people, the ones who do the KHABA'ITH

Now to answer your question above, we should continue to harm them for as long as they insist on their crime against the laws of Allah

for example if the harm is like 3 months in jail, then if they do it again when they come out, then we jail them again and again

----------

Well, If I'm a law maker then I have to apply 4:11 & 4:12 over the gays the lesbians

for me, it can be considered Zina and I will look seriously in applying the punishment of Zina (100 lashes in public as well a group of belivers must witness their punishment)

now if for whatever reason they can't be lashed (medical reasons for example) then 1 year in solitary confinment will be a satisfactory punishment for their crime, the reason for solitary confinment is to prevent them from trying it with other inmates, the whole point is to make them repent so they will be saved if Allah exists

there should be no capital punsihment for the gays and lesbians as far as I see from the Quran.



Thats what ahmed wrote in the thread about homosexuality...

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/ftopic181-0-asc-0.php

Saying, that if he was the judge, he wouldn't downright have you killed, but he would sentence you to 100 lashes, 3 months in solitary confinement, repeatedly, as long as it takes, to make you break !!

And he sure wouldn't mind if you die in jail, as a follow-up to the 100 lashes, infections, disease, whatever...

Say "thank you, your '[dis]honor' judge ahmed !"

Despite that we all know that homosexuals are getting killed in REALITY, in islamic lands... in numbers, every year the same...

Despite the fact that homsexuality is well "at home" in islamic lands, due to the next fact - sexual deprivation of muslims in their younger years, naturally the steaming sexuality has to find some relief somewhere...

Its another case of pure hypocrisy !

.


I don't know idiot what exactly you are saying, do you mean I said in another place to kill them and in here not to kill them?

why don't you piss iff and leave me in peace trying to make ibnishaq to give heed to his Lord?
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".


wrong pal, this is because the verse before it which taljs about the same thing is talking about females only

you are dismissed for being confused

Regardless, your explanation that "Al Lazan" only implies to "Man & Man" is not clear to me. So I need to confirm it.

Also the previous verse is talking about females only.
And this verse is talking about "man AND woman" OR "man AND man".

right?
AhmedBahgat

[quote="Baal"]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".


wrong pal, this is because the verse before it which taljs about the same thing is talking about females only

you are dismissed for being confused


Baal wrote:
Regardless, your explanation that "Al Lazan" only implies to "Man & Man" is not clear to me. So I need to confirm it.


again , Al Laazzan referes to two males accoridng to the context


Baal wrote:
Also the previous verse is talking about females only.
that is right about femakes committing fahisha

Baal wrote:

And this verse is talking about "man AND woman" OR "man AND man".

right?


because it is taking about fahisha and the previous verses is talking about females only then this verse is talking about males only

if Allah wants to talk abouot both then one time is enough by using plural

you are dismissed
BMZ

ibnishaq wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Haven't I told you many times already that 4:16 is about the queers?

Al Laazan = a device to refer to two males


Agreed! Allah hates queers, specially those who are genetically that way. Allah hates his own creatures!


I never talked about hate in my comment really, so what are you agreeing on exactly?

on the other hand I don'y buy such crap by the queers that they are such way genetically,, simply the males either like to fuk other males in the anus or getting fuked in the anus, they also love sucking dicks, for the females howveer they like licking pussies and sucking nipples

cheers

ahmed this is a reason i am still not a muslim. i have heard many scholars say(and correctly say) that god would not make someone a homosexual and then punish them in hell because of it!

but let me tell you, i did not choose to be homo. i get very turned on in the locker room by hot guys who are taking a shower lol

but i did not choose to get turned on i just do. and a girl could NEVER turn me on like that ever.


lol! ibnishaq,

I know a Chinese tycoon here, who had been a great womaniser for years. He is now sixty and is fed up of women. He has turned homosexual, leaving behind all the women.

Give it a try, ibnishaq. The problem is that you have not tried it with a woman. All the time, you have been in men's room.  Wink If you are young, say 25-30, then try with a mature woman say 40+. I assure you she will cure the problem.  Laughing trust me.

You are a human with brain and intelligence. You are not an animal with instincts.

Please note that this is an advice given as if I were a psychiatrist treating you. Don't take that as an advice from a Muslim. lol!

BMZ
ibnishaq

BMZ what makes you think i have not tryed before? i have it do not work.

i will tell you, i have tried dating girls before. i even went out with a girl. but i never felt the love that i shuld!

now here is a question. what if it is proven not to be a choice? doesn't that invalidate islam that believes that god hates gays and puts them in hell even if they do not choose!
HomoErectus

This islamic god is supposed to have "created" you, all knowingly...

and yet he punishes what he has "created", and he knew it all ahead ?

Is this absurd logic, or is this absurd logic ?

.
Baal

[quote="AhmedBahgat"]
Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Palmer seems the most accurate.

The previous verse states "any of your women who bring the scanal.."
And in 4:16 *it* refers to the scandal.

Al Lazan can be applied to a man and a woman OR Two men.

Ahmed you state it can only be applied to Two men. Imagine it was really meant ONLY for 'a man and a woman', it still could have said Al Lazan.

If Two males it will sound "Al Lazan".
One man & One woman it will still sound the same: "Al Lazan".
Only Two females would sound different: "Al Latayn".


wrong pal, this is because the verse before it which taljs about the same thing is talking about females only

you are dismissed for being confused


Baal wrote:
Regardless, your explanation that "Al Lazan" only implies to "Man & Man" is not clear to me. So I need to confirm it.


again , Al Laazzan referes to two males accoridng to the context

According to 'context' only but linguistically it can mean either Two men or  Man & Woman.

However, even according to context, it can still mean both.
AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Also the previous verse is talking about females only.
that is right about femakes committing fahisha

Baal wrote:

And this verse is talking about "man AND woman" OR "man AND man".

right?


because it is taking about fahisha and the previous verses is talking about females only then this verse is talking about males only

if Allah wants to talk abouot both then one time is enough by using plural

you are dismissed


The previous verse talks about the punishment for women only, although i think it means women and men as well.

However, assuming it is women only, then it could mean that the Second verse applies to men/men and men/women. It is just that the punishment is the same for those in the second condition.
BMZ

ibnishaq wrote:
BMZ what makes you think i have not tryed before? i have it do not work.

i will tell you, i have tried dating girls before. i even went out with a girl. but i never felt the love that i shuld!

now here is a question. what if it is proven not to be a choice? doesn't that invalidate islam that believes that god hates gays and puts them in hell even if they do not choose!


I understand, ibnishaq. Please get a mature wanting woman and tell her your problem. You have to try. I have known some homos personally, who came out of it after marriage.

It is not just Islam that forbids it. All religions abhor it. I don't know if Christianity and the Christian god endorses it.
Baal

ibnishaq wrote:
BMZ what makes you think i have not tryed before? i have it do not work.

i will tell you, i have tried dating girls before. i even went out with a girl. but i never felt the love that i shuld!

now here is a question. what if it is proven not to be a choice? doesn't that invalidate islam that believes that god hates gays and puts them in hell even if they do not choose!

I think BMZ was not referring to a girl, but to an older woman who knows what she is doing. I highly recommend the practice. I am still very close to that older woman i started with even though each one has their own life and sex is no longer an issue between us.
ibnishaq

BMZ wrote:

I understand, ibnishaq. Please get a mature wanting woman and tell her your problem. You have to try. I have known some homos personally, who came out of it after marriage.

It is not just Islam that forbids it. All religions abhor it. I don't know if Christianity and the Christian god endorses it.

i swear by allah that it will not work. and plus that is disgusting. you want me to try and marry some ragidy old woman and tell her i am gay and see f she can fix it? that is silly.
Baal

ibnishaq wrote:
BMZ wrote:

I understand, ibnishaq. Please get a mature wanting woman and tell her your problem. You have to try. I have known some homos personally, who came out of it after marriage.

It is not just Islam that forbids it. All religions abhor it. I don't know if Christianity and the Christian god endorses it.

i swear by allah that it will not work. and plus that is disgusting. you want me to try and marry some ragidy old woman and tell her i am gay and see f she can fix it? that is silly.

Not talking on BMZ's behalf, only clarifying my advice, do not find a raggedy woman. Western women generally age late, so i do not know how they are where you live.

The goal is not to get her to make you stop being bi-, that will probably never change, the goal is to get you to meet a woman who will know what she is doing and teach you how to use the body of other women. Most women do not know how to use their bodies and a high percentage of them live their lives with no or very few orgasms.

Many men do not even notice it and many women do not know they can have better. Knowing how to use the body of the woman will turn her on more and make her sexier in regards to you.
All_Brains

What the hell are guys talking about....You can never alter the sexual orientation of a human, unless you suppress them and make them miserable for the rest of their lives!!!!

Not even Asia Carrera can fix shaq, for a very simple reason, he doesn't need need fixing. He's exactly how nature intended him to be!!! Get over it!
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
What the hell are guys talking about....You can never alter the sexual orientation of a human, unless you suppress them and make them miserable for the rest of their lives!!!!

Not even Asia Carrera can fix shaq, for a very simple reason, he doesn't need need fixing. He's exactly how nature intended him to be!!! Get over it!

finally, someone with brains lol i thought i was dreaming for a second here with bmz and baals comments!
AhmedBahgat

Hello Ibnishaq

it seems to me that it's not about love as you claimed in the past, it seems to me that your actions is all about sex,

see pal, many women turns me on, what I do is simply avoiding such looks at hot women, that is what the Quran says btw (in general), lower your sighting

for you however it seems that it's ok with you to follow your perverse sexual desires of dreaming of fuking or gettin fuked by such hot males

honest bro, this is just disgusting

Salam
Baal

All_Brains wrote:
What the hell are guys talking about....You can never alter the sexual orientation of a human, unless you suppress them and make them miserable for the rest of their lives!!!!

Not even Asia Carrera can fix shaq, for a very simple reason, he doesn't need need fixing. He's exactly how nature intended him to be!!! Get over it!

You seem to treat it as black or white. 1 or 2. I happen to think it is a range of 1 to 100. and shaq is more near the middle.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello Ibnishaq

it seems to me that it's not about love as you claimed in the past, it seems to me that your actions is all about sex,

see pal, many women turns me on, what I do is simply avoiding such looks at hot women, that is what the Quran says btw (in general), lower your sighting

for you however it seems that it's ok with you to follow your perverse sexual desires of dreaming of fuking or gettin fuked by such hot males

honest bro, this is just disgusting

Salam

That is the worst example to bring your sexual hangups Ahmed. Shaq specified that he is only interested in One. He finds others attractive but he is only active with one.
ibnishaq

ahmed your religion fucking tells me to not look at women period, to not even glance, and now you are going to say not look at men. what to do stare at floor all day?

jesus christ it makes me want to fucking kill myself. it is like solitary confinement!
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed your religion fucking tells me to not look at women period, to not even glance, and now you are going to say not look at men. what to do stare at floor all day?

jesus christ it makes me want to fucking kill myself. it is like solitary confinement!



dismissed
HomoErectus

ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed your religion fucking tells me to not look at women period, to not even glance, and now you are going to say not look at men. what to do stare at floor all day?

jesus christ it makes me want to fucking kill myself. it is like solitary confinement!



Dear Ishaq

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking about, or having sex...

AS often as you can, want, are able to, or have the desire - as long as your partner conforms with your wishes !

Ahmed's complexes have nothing to do with your ways !

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking a women or men, whatever...

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, and what could possibly be wrong with looking at all the beauty available on this planet !

The quran, ahadith, tafsir, fatwas, are no more than tools to control you, to have you on a leash, let you run in circles, and be a "submitter" - to have a tight grip on your brains - to keep you from thinking freely !

To keep you in BENT position, there's this other tool - FEAR !

Get rid of the fear-factor, and islam has lost all its might over you !

And you can laugh about the rather childish fairy tales !
AhmedBahgat

HomoErectus wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed your religion fucking tells me to not look at women period, to not even glance, and now you are going to say not look at men. what to do stare at floor all day?

jesus christ it makes me want to fucking kill myself. it is like solitary confinement!



Dear Ishaq

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking about, or having sex...

AS often as you can, want, are able to, or have the desire - as long as your partner conforms with your wishes !

Ahmed's complexes have nothing to do with your ways !

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking a women or men, whatever...

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, and what could possibly be wrong with looking at all the beauty available on this planet !

The quran, ahadith, tafsir, fatwas, are no more than tools to control you, to have you on a leash, let you run in circles, and be a "submitter" - to have a tight grip on your brains - to keep you from thinking freely !

To keep you in BENT position, there's this other tool - FEAR !

Get rid of the fear-factor, and islam has lost all its might over you !

And you can laugh about the rather childish fairy tales !


Look, I'm not surprised that someone calling himself  homo is encouraging ibnishaq to continue being a  homo

why don't you two get together?
HomoErectus

Dear Ahmed

I'm about as "gay" as a kangaroo... Very Happy
But I had quite some friends in those circles [my business is a bit overloaded with gays]... and know about their problem-field[s]


But, lets talk about your complexes...

Thats way more entertaining !

You display 'em all so nicely here !

And maybe your aversion to homosexuality comes from your own experiences in your younger years... ?

You know, like ex-smokers become overly aversive to active smokers...

.
AhmedBahgat

HomoErectus wrote:
Dear Ahmed

I'm about as "gay" as a kangaroo... Very Happy
But I had quite some friends in those circles [my business is a bit overloaded with gays]... and know about their problem-field[s]


But, lets talk about your complexes...

Thats way more entertaining !

You display 'em all so nicely here !

And maybe your aversion to homosexuality comes from your own experiences in your younger years... ?

You know, like ex-smokers become overly aversive to active smokers...

.


Not sure what you are trying to say

do you mean in my younger days i used to fuk queers like you?

if yes, then no queer, I'm all into women even if they are damn ugly

now piss off to the queers bar, your boyfriends are waiting eagerly for you, you should have a groupie tonight
HomoErectus

Dear Ahmed

Thats - again - exactly what I meant by saying "you display it so nicely" !

You shouldn't assume that everybody has similar problems like you !
Don't alway take yourself as example to measure all others.

We all know that due to the islamic rules, young muslims are sexually opressed, deprived, and have to get their first experiences on the sexual field with other males... serious problems, which may last a whole life long !

Look at Ishaq, there's thousands out there, like him !
they don't have a problem with their homosexuality, but becasue of these absurd islamic rules !

All in all, its good to know that islamic rules are valid in islamic countries only...

Aaaah, its so gooood to be a kuffar, not having to put up with nonsensical rules and "belief" !!!
BMZ

ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed your religion fucking tells me to not look at women period, to not even glance, and now you are going to say not look at men. what to do stare at floor all day?

jesus christ it makes me want to fucking kill myself. it is like solitary confinement!


lol! Ibnishaq,

You mean you have nothingelse to do whole day, except staring at men? The verse does not mean that one should look at the floor while talking to women.  Wink

There are some men who stare women so much that they can make her pregnant with their penetrating eyes. lol!

BMZ
HomoErectus

BMZ wrote:


There are some men who stare women so much that they can make her pregnant with their penetrating eyes. lol!

BMZ


You must be talking about muslims... lol!
BMZ

HomoErectus wrote:
BMZ wrote:


There are some men who stare women so much that they can make her pregnant with their penetrating eyes. lol!

BMZ


You must be talking about muslims... lol!


Not really. lol!
ibnishaq

ahmed what if it was 100% proven not to be a choice but to be a genetic issue. maybe even a disorder. then wat, ur god make people to die in hell for something they dont chose?
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed what if it was 100% proven not to be a choice but to be a genetic issue. maybe even a disorder. then wat, ur god make people to die in hell for something they dont chose?


It can't be proven pal

stop your queery wishful thinking

cheers
HomoErectus

No need for wishful thinking only !

All Ishaq needs is to un-load the crappy islamic rules on homosexuality, out of his mind, and live on freely, to do as he pleases...

I realize, its a lot easier to do that, when not living in a muslimic surrounding !

And - of course - its a matter of time, and "development" !

All murtads say the same about it - once they had left behind all the "angst", the "fear-factor", the threats of violence and death by islamic rule - they can really feel the  freedom !

Many threads on all apostates sites are proof of this inner fight and struggle, to get the indoctrination out of their brains, and once they are out, they become real human beings, with all the liberty they can think of... even eating PORK [liking it] and drinking a beer [or two] now and then, doing all the haram stuff, they were prohibited from in their former lives in shackles and chains !

Ishaq is finding out about the merciless violent truth in islam !

On the way OUT...
AhmedBahgat

HomoErectus wrote:
No need for wishful thinking only !

All Ishaq needs is to un-load the crappy islamic rules on homosexuality, out of his mind, and live on freely, to do as he pleases...

I realize, its a lot easier to do that, when not living in a muslimic surrounding !

And - of course - its a matter of time, and "development" !

All murtads say the same about it - once they had left behind all the "angst", the "fear-factor", the threats of violence and death by islamic rule - they can really feel the  freedom !

Many threads on all apostates sites are proof of this inner fight and struggle, to get the indoctrination out of their brains, and once they are out, they become real human beings, with all the liberty they can think of... even eating PORK [liking it] and drinking a beer [or two] now and then, doing all the haram stuff, they were prohibited from in their former lives in shackles and chains !

Ishaq is finding out about the merciless violent truth in islam !

On the way OUT...


what a freak you Homo are

Islam protect the fags you manipulated manipulator, for 1400 years the truth is there in front of everyone, 4:15-16

it is the bible who orders killing the queers, homo, therefore in countries like Iran, they are indeed following the Bible not the Quran

now tell me freak, why on western countries the crime of bashing the queers is far more than those middle eastern countries?, what motivate their hatred against the queers, homo?, i have never heard of such crime in a country like egypt

it seems to me that you are a queer in the closet, why not coming out and possibly get with ibnishaq and marry each other?
HomoErectus

Wrong again !

I'm an ERECTUS, not a "bent over" ! Twisted Evil

NO submission for me !

And I don't give a damn what the bible says !

I don't give a damn what all the religions combined say...

I only follow civil laws, secular laws, no whatsoever "god" involved !

What would I need religious laws for ?
They are of no use !

Regarding gays, we have laws regarding them too, they are being protected, in some countries they are able to really get married, and why not, its THEIR decision - not yours, not mine, no governments, and no alleged "gods" business !

We also have legalized the hookers, in the sense that they always had to pay taxes, but they never gotten any social status, regarding health care and social-security, legal rights, and rules and regulations...

WE have ended the hypocrisy !

As for my personal situation, not that its any of your concerns, but sorry, no, I'm not gay, never was, but plenty of pretty girls on my way, I was in the music business, and life was easy in this respect !

Eat your heart out !!!!!!! Very Happy

.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
No need for wishful thinking only !

All Ishaq needs is to un-load the crappy islamic rules on homosexuality, out of his mind, and live on freely, to do as he pleases...

I realize, its a lot easier to do that, when not living in a muslimic surrounding !

And - of course - its a matter of time, and "development" !

All murtads say the same about it - once they had left behind all the "angst", the "fear-factor", the threats of violence and death by islamic rule - they can really feel the  freedom !

Many threads on all apostates sites are proof of this inner fight and struggle, to get the indoctrination out of their brains, and once they are out, they become real human beings, with all the liberty they can think of... even eating PORK [liking it] and drinking a beer [or two] now and then, doing all the haram stuff, they were prohibited from in their former lives in shackles and chains !

Ishaq is finding out about the merciless violent truth in islam !

On the way OUT...


what a freak you Homo are

Islam protect the fags you manipulated manipulator, for 1400 years the truth is there in front of everyone, 4:15-16

it is the bible who orders killing the queers, homo, therefore in countries like Iran, they are indeed following the Bible not the Quran

now tell me freak, why on western countries the crime of bashing the queers is far more than those middle eastern countries?, what motivate their hatred against the queers, homo?, i have never heard of such crime in a country like egypt

it seems to me that you are a queer in the closet, why not coming out and possibly get with ibnishaq and marry each other?

What are you talking about Ahmed, you have any clue what they do to queers in the streets and in jails and how fast they get fired from their jobs? Bringing Egyptian customs in this is not your best line of defense.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
No need for wishful thinking only !

All Ishaq needs is to un-load the crappy islamic rules on homosexuality, out of his mind, and live on freely, to do as he pleases...

I realize, its a lot easier to do that, when not living in a muslimic surrounding !

And - of course - its a matter of time, and "development" !

All murtads say the same about it - once they had left behind all the "angst", the "fear-factor", the threats of violence and death by islamic rule - they can really feel the  freedom !

Many threads on all apostates sites are proof of this inner fight and struggle, to get the indoctrination out of their brains, and once they are out, they become real human beings, with all the liberty they can think of... even eating PORK [liking it] and drinking a beer [or two] now and then, doing all the haram stuff, they were prohibited from in their former lives in shackles and chains !

Ishaq is finding out about the merciless violent truth in islam !

On the way OUT...


what a freak you Homo are

Islam protect the fags you manipulated manipulator, for 1400 years the truth is there in front of everyone, 4:15-16

it is the bible who orders killing the queers, homo, therefore in countries like Iran, they are indeed following the Bible not the Quran

now tell me freak, why on western countries the crime of bashing the queers is far more than those middle eastern countries?, what motivate their hatred against the queers, homo?, i have never heard of such crime in a country like egypt

it seems to me that you are a queer in the closet, why not coming out and possibly get with ibnishaq and marry each other?

What are you talking about Ahmed, you have any clue what they do to queers in the streets and in jails and how fast they get fired from their jobs? Bringing Egyptian customs in this is not your best line of defense.


baal, egypt is full of queers who live very comfortablly and freely, regarding work, well I never seen a queer at work in Egypt, so what?
AhmedBahgat

Actually I stand corrected baal

I remembered just now that while working as Civil Engineer in Ayoub Adly Ayoub Engineering firmin egypt (for 3 weeks) in 1989, it was commonly known that all the Saaida (you know them) the ones who are very dumb and come from upper Egypt,  there are a lot of jokes on them, were the common dominator in all labour work and because about sleep on sites,  they actually have sex between them (fukin very filthy) and it was common knoweldge and acceptable by all, they were never fired as you alleg about the queers in  Egypt

here a few  Saidi nuktas:

-> A saidi lift his Jalabayah, he found two having sex under it

-> A saidi was eating a shit sandwitch, he found a fly in it, so he was disgusted and threw it away

-> a saidi was playing hide and seek with his wife about 10 years ago, till now they can't find him

-> a saidi wanted to have children quick, he married a pregnant woman

-> a saidi removed his tooth, he found a dog with its puppies living there

-> a saidi fell from Cairo tower, he only got a headache

-> a saidi was hit by a train, he stood up cleaned his cloth and continued walking

-> a saidi was asked to say a human name that starts with Alif, he said. Aimehamdain

LOL
ibnishaq

ahmed islam calls for death upon gays too. you do not accepted hadiths but the vast majority do and there are DOZENS of hadiths in 6 sunni collections that say that the punishment for sodomy is death.

kill the one doing it and being done - according to al bani it is sahih.
punish them by throwing them over a cliff - according to albani it is hassan

and many more.

do not make the claim that islam "protects queers" because yall dont!

now my question was. what if it was PROVEN that homosexuality was not a sin? if it was 100% proven, what would that do for islam?

i do not want a stupid "it can't be proven" answer, because i am asking hypothetically here.
AhmedBahgat

ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed islam calls for death upon gays too. you do not accepted hadiths but the vast majority do and there are DOZENS of hadiths in 6 sunni collections that say that the punishment for sodomy is death.

kill the one doing it and being done - according to al bani it is sahih.
punish them by throwing them over a cliff - according to albani it is hassan

and many more.

do not make the claim that islam "protects queers" because yall dont!

now my question was. what if it was PROVEN that homosexuality was not a sin? if it was 100% proven, what would that do for islam?

i do not want a stupid "it can't be proven" answer, because i am asking hypothetically here.


excuse me pal

why don't you list to me the Muslims countries that apply the death penalty over the Queers


I just want to qualify your claim that it is the majority of the Muslims who kill the Queers


now for my stupid answer, well I answered you many times already,

again the anus is for the shit to come out from it, it is not for sexual pleasure nor for dicks to be inserted in it, that is even NATURE not bloody religions

I put a comment about 3 years ago to a queer that I was debating, I will try to find it for you, it ill havve all the info that you need to prove to you that all queers are living a delusional life style

thanks
HomoErectus

What you don't seem to get...

HE did not CHOOSE to become a homosexual !

And "god"... isn't he supoposed to have "created" us, like we are ?

Didn't HE make Ishaq like he is ?

I mean, "god" is "all knowing"... didn't he know Ishaq would be like that ?

Isn't he omnipotent... ?

He could have made Ishaq a bird, a cat, an elephant, yet
HE chose to make him a "homosexual" !!!

But you go on blaming Ishaq !

You see... here your "cat" bites its own tail !

.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed islam calls for death upon gays too. you do not accepted hadiths but the vast majority do and there are DOZENS of hadiths in 6 sunni collections that say that the punishment for sodomy is death.

kill the one doing it and being done - according to al bani it is sahih.
punish them by throwing them over a cliff - according to albani it is hassan

and many more.

do not make the claim that islam "protects queers" because yall dont!

now my question was. what if it was PROVEN that homosexuality was not a sin? if it was 100% proven, what would that do for islam?

i do not want a stupid "it can't be proven" answer, because i am asking hypothetically here.


excuse me pal

why don't you list to me the Muslims countries that apply the death penalty over the Queers


I just want to qualify your claim that it is the majority of the Muslims who kill the Queers


now for my stupid answer, well I answered you many times already,

again the anus is for the shit to come out from it, it is not for sexual pleasure nor for dicks to be inserted in it, that is even NATURE not bloody religions

I put a comment about 3 years ago to a queer that I was debating, I will try to find it for you, it ill havve all the info that you need to prove to you that all queers are living a delusional life style

thanks

Any country applying Sharia will kill Queers. Any islamic countries that is not being a good muslim, is not falling that far from the islamic tree.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
ahmed islam calls for death upon gays too. you do not accepted hadiths but the vast majority do and there are DOZENS of hadiths in 6 sunni collections that say that the punishment for sodomy is death.

kill the one doing it and being done - according to al bani it is sahih.
punish them by throwing them over a cliff - according to albani it is hassan

and many more.

do not make the claim that islam "protects queers" because yall dont!

now my question was. what if it was PROVEN that homosexuality was not a sin? if it was 100% proven, what would that do for islam?

i do not want a stupid "it can't be proven" answer, because i am asking hypothetically here.


excuse me pal

why don't you list to me the Muslims countries that apply the death penalty over the Queers


I just want to qualify your claim that it is the majority of the Muslims who kill the Queers


now for my stupid answer, well I answered you many times already,

again the anus is for the shit to come out from it, it is not for sexual pleasure nor for dicks to be inserted in it, that is even NATURE not bloody religions

I put a comment about 3 years ago to a queer that I was debating, I will try to find it for you, it ill havve all the info that you need to prove to you that all queers are living a delusional life style

thanks

Any country applying Sharia will kill Queers. Any islamic countries that is not being a good muslim, is not falling that far from the islamic tree.


again, applying their man made sharia not the sharia sent in the Quran

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