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All_Brains

Arabic Speakers Needed! (On behalf of Ibnshaq)!

Ibnshaq said:

Quote:
i guess i know that if it was put in there, then it HAD to be done on purpose. sorry but i doubt coincidence could do this. i might be wrong though. i mean if you read the torah and skip every 50 letters you get ? then 50 more ? then 50 more ? then 50 more ? which spells torah! you cando that in genesis and exodus in leviticus it does not but it spells YHWH and then you can do it backwords in deuteronomy and numbers. so who knows.

anyways but here is a good site with the islamic numebr claims with nice relaxing music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBppxU9uDVQ

so i have few questions to arabic speakers. i have not yet gotten a response so i am not trying to just repeat myself!

1. should the words like yawmidhin and such be excluded in the total for "day?" (when the people who make this claim get 365, they take out idhin, kum, etc)

2. would it be hard to make numeric structure in arabic or would it be easier then english?

3. would it be REALLY out of norm for someoen to try and do such or was numbers some thing not too looked up but not a foreign concept?

4. should duals be added to the count of days plural? if not why?

if it was the norm then obviously someone just put it in there. and then i will probably leave islam because i am a pretty gullible person who relies on the smallest things to keep me going!

thanks you guys!


Hello Shaq

Will answer you in few hours regarding this.
All_Brains
ibnishaq

thanks i am looking forward!

i told you in the PM but i will say here too in case people are wondering why this is such big deal to me. the reason is because i did a few hours of researching and found all the claims to be true. day 365 days 30 month 12 sabbath 7 man 24 woman 24 etc. and i have searched for such in bible and veda's and others and have found nothing of the sort.

and it just startles me and it keeps my iman. hopefully all brains or cosmic dancer or other arabic speakers can debunk me though, and i can loose my iman!

anyways i am looking forward to it!
Raza

O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Quran is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is OftForgiving, Most Forbearing. Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers.
5:101-102
All_Brains

Hello Shaq

As promised below are my thoughts:

Quote:
1. should the words like yawmidhin and such be excluded in the total for "day?" (when the people who make this claim get 365, they take out idhin, kum, etc)


I think it should be included as this is made of two words (Yawm)= Day and (Al-Dhin) = religion, the day of religion aka
judgment day. I don't see any reason why day here should be excluded. The only reason is to make the 30 days target! Twisted Evil

Quote:
2. would it be hard to make numeric structure in arabic or would it be easier then english?


Not at all, all languages have the ability to have numerical structure in them and Arabic is no exception!

Quote:
3. would it be REALLY out of norm for someoen to try and do such or was numbers some thing not too looked up but not a foreign concept?


Shaq

Two ways of looking at that:

1- Yes, it's quite easy on any given day for anyone to "deliberately" insert any numerical codes in any text, specially as lengthy as the Quran. I will demonstrate that to you in a minute.

2. The word day or days have been normally mentioned as you do throughout the Quran and through a very strange and twisted criteria, certain "day" is qualified and others are excluded. The reason is obvious, come up with 30 days!

Quote:
4. should duals be added to the count of days plural? if not why?


It should be either included or excluded along with plural. The criteria needed to be set clear whether only singulars will be accepted or any word that includes day as part thereof. that has not been achieved in this count.

More and more numerical miracles show up nowadays, as people becoming increasingly fascinated with hidden codes and secret chambers.


Now....here is the moment of truth today! In my response to you I have inserted the word "day" many times and in many forms. Can you please count all of them and tell me how many times you counted the word "day".

I hope it's still daytime where you live and can answer this swiftly!
ibnishaq

Quote:

I think it should be included as this is made of two words (Yawm)= Day and (Al-Dhin) = religion, the day of religion aka
judgment day. I don't see any reason why day here should be excluded. The only reason is to make the 30 days target! Twisted Evil

humm, that is true. Is there an major differences between the words that start with like AL, BI, and the ones that end like IDHIN and KUMU?
Quote:


Not at all, all languages have the ability to have numerical structure in them and Arabic is no exception!

well yeah but arabic is hard language! would it be extremely hard to add these day things, and others like "man" and "woman" both occurring 24 times!
Quote:

Shaq

Two ways of looking at that:

1- Yes, it's quite easy on any given day for anyone to "deliberately" insert any numerical codes in any text, specially as lengthy as the Quran. I will demonstrate that to you in a minute.

2. The word day or days have been normally mentioned as you do throughout the Quran and through a very strange and twisted criteria, certain "day" is qualified and others are excluded. The reason is obvious, come up with 30 days!

well, days is pretty clear.. it is said 27 times plus 3 duals = 30.
it is DAY that might be deliberately made up. like they exclude 80, all with the endings like idhin, kumu, etc

[quote
It should be either included or excluded along with plural. The criteria needed to be set clear whether only singulars will be accepted or any word that includes day as part thereof. that has not been achieved in this count.
[/quote]
actually yeah it has. Sad

Quote:

Now....here is the moment of truth today! In my response to you I have inserted the word "day" many times and in many forms. Can you please count all of them and tell me how many times you counted the word "day".

I hope it's still daytime where you live and can answer this swiftly!

lol cool!
All_Brains

Shaq

By answering the quiz I have given you, you will come to realise all the answers you need on this matter.

Also regarding the difficulty of Arabic...Traditional Chinese is a lot more complex, yet numerical structures can be easily inserted in any text.
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
Shaq

By answering the quiz I have given you, you will come to realise all the answers you need on this matter.

Also regarding the difficulty of Arabic...Traditional Chinese is a lot more complex, yet numerical structures can be easily inserted in any text.


but i thought it was out of norm to add such and that the people at that time did not do that? if it was out of the norm then how would he have known?

also they did not know there were 365 days in a year at that time yet
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Shaq

By answering the quiz I have given you, you will come to realise all the answers you need on this matter.

Also regarding the difficulty of Arabic...Traditional Chinese is a lot more complex, yet numerical structures can be easily inserted in any text.


but i thought it was out of norm to add such and that the people at that time did not do that? if it was out of the norm then how would he have known?

also they did not know there were 365 days in a year at that time yet


Shaq

Please answer the quiz!

And here are the answers for your questions.

1. No, it's not out of the norm. I have shown you several times that tricks with numbers existed thousand of years before Islam.

2. And why would Allah refer to a Gregorian mainly Christian calender and neglect the lunar Islamic calender. Also every 4 years, the year is 366 days!!!!

Now...please answer the quiz, because the ultimate answer you're looking for is within your answer!
ibnishaq

i get day 21? lol

and you say that it was not out of the norm but cosmicdancer said that in arabic poetry they never saw such!
Mutley

ibnishaq wrote:
thanks i am looking forward!

i told you in the PM but i will say here too in case people are wondering why this is such big deal to me. the reason is because i did a few hours of researching and found all the claims to be true. day 365 days 30 month 12 sabbath 7 man 24 woman 24 etc. and i have searched for such in bible and veda's and others and have found nothing of the sort.

and it just startles me and it keeps my iman. hopefully all brains or cosmic dancer or other arabic speakers can debunk me though, and i can loose my iman!

anyways i am looking forward to it!



Well, errr ummm....have you remembered that the Islamic based calendar only has 354 days in it or did the propagandist brain washers forget to mention this important detail? So what they are telling you, is that the Quran confirms the Greek calendar, rather than the Islamic calendar. See how these people just play games? Anything, anything that it takes to confirm the Quran. And you'll fall for it because they are telling you what you want to hear. Oh well. Not my problem. These people are the best, most creative, unashamed liars of all. And that's a big prize, as there are obviously many liars in this world. I bow to their inventive and unashamed skills.
ibnishaq

Mutley wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
thanks i am looking forward!

i told you in the PM but i will say here too in case people are wondering why this is such big deal to me. the reason is because i did a few hours of researching and found all the claims to be true. day 365 days 30 month 12 sabbath 7 man 24 woman 24 etc. and i have searched for such in bible and veda's and others and have found nothing of the sort.

and it just startles me and it keeps my iman. hopefully all brains or cosmic dancer or other arabic speakers can debunk me though, and i can loose my iman!

anyways i am looking forward to it!



Well, errr ummm....have you remembered that the Islamic based calendar only has 354 days in it or did the propagandist brain washers forget to mention this important detail? So what they are telling you, is that the Quran confirms the Greek calendar, rather than the Islamic calendar. See how these people just play games? Anything, anything that it takes to confirm the Quran. And you'll fall for it because they are telling you what you want to hear. Oh well. Not my problem. These people are the best, most creative, unashamed liars of all. And that's a big prize, as there are obviously many liars in this world. I bow to their inventive and unashamed skills.


yeah and that is something i am still wondering about!!

however then there is still the one with man and woman both 24 times.


you see? not only does it have both 24 times, BUT if you exclude idhin and the endings on woman, you get 12(which quran says it takes twice as many woman for man. i disagree with it but it is there and n this number!)
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
i get day 21? lol

and you say that it was not out of the norm but cosmicdancer said that in arabic poetry they never saw such!


Ok....now let me show you how the trick works.

I am the God of football and I have inserted a numerical code indicating the jersey the number of the prophet I have sent you named "Diego Armando Maradona". I have used the word "day" as a code and the number is 10.

Please go to the text and count how many singular English "day" is there. You'll find 10, isn't that a miracle!!!!?

Ah....I forgot to tell you that I have excluded x 3 mention of day as plural. "Days" don't qualify.
And excluded x 3 the mention of day as part of a word (Nowadays, today, daytime)
And of course I excluded the word "Yawm" which means day in Arabic. Only English singular word will be accepted.

oh...and how did I come up with such criteria and why? God knows best, he lead me to the magic no 10.


So, Shaq....Out of 17 mention of the word day in different forms (Singular, plural, complex word and Arabic), I have chosen 10 to come up with the number that I wanted to achieve from the very beginning.

Now, if the above doesn't convince of how the trick has been played, I don't know what would!
ibnishaq

well yeah, but that is not how they did it. look at the post above yours and i show how they do it!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
well yeah, but that is not how they did it. look at the post above yours and i show how they do it!



Shaq

We're talking about day not man and women. You yourself said that that some day words were excluded and you don't really know why!
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
well yeah, but that is not how they did it. look at the post above yours and i show how they do it!



Shaq

We're talking about day not man and women. You yourself said that that some day words were excluded and you don't really know why!


ok, you win on the day issue. but days is still in there 30 times and month 12 no strings attatched!

now what do you think of the man and woman said 24 times?
Guest

What the???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXT1fb_TkX4
All_Brains

Hello Shaq

Now correct me if I am wrong the man and woman are mentioned 24 times in the Quran? and only singular words are accepted?
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
Hello Shaq

Now correct me if I am wrong the man and woman are mentioned 24 times in the Quran? and only singular words are accepted?


ALL words for rajul and imraat are included in the search, besides the duals.

i am not sure if that is singular or plural though as i have no clue how to determine in arabic!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Hello Shaq

Now correct me if I am wrong the man and woman are mentioned 24 times in the Quran? and only singular words are accepted?


ALL words for rajul and imraat are included in the search, besides the duals.

i am not sure if that is singular or plural though as i have no clue how to determine in arabic!


Hello Shaq

The criteria that determines the 24 for man and woman is even more hilarious. Whoever done this is absolute liar who wants to mislead people. Any native Arabic speaker will tell that the above is BS, even Muslims themselves. Try Ahmed Bahgat, I am sure he'd agree with me on this one.

This is a silly example of miracle and may I ask what is the significance of number 24 when it comes to man and woman? The number 24 would have been a little more relevant if it was the number of the word "hour" was repeated, as in 24 hours in one day!

Come on man, this is the 21st century!
Guest

hi!

can you tell me what is hilarious about the criteria, and how they lied?

go to qu'ran transliteration.
http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all

now, type in "rajul" and then "imraat" and you get 29 and 26. take of duals for both and you get 24.

now might i ask it rajul and imraat just singular? is there other roots words for man and woman in qu'ran?

i thought they were the only ones which is why i thought it was a miracle!

please tell me why the criteria is funny and what words are used in the qu'ran for man/woman or even men/women!
thanks!
ibnishaq

oops, i did not sign in! here it is again..

hi!

can you tell me what is hilarious about the criteria, and how they lied?

go to qu'ran transliteration.
http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all

now, type in "rajul" and then "imraat" and you get 29 and 26. take of duals for both and you get 24.

now might i ask it rajul and imraat just singular? is there other roots words for man and woman in qu'ran?

i thought they were the only ones which is why i thought it was a miracle!

please tell me why the criteria is funny and what words are used in the qu'ran for man/woman or even men/women!
thanks!
All_Brains

The problem is why take singular and plural and then for very strange reason leave dual out?

The other thing what's the ridiculous criteria of women are double of man in the count, so 12 becomes 14????
ibnishaq

it does not count both singular and plural. it only counts singular silly!

it simple searches for the word rajul. nothing more, nothing less!!!!

and if you exclude the duals, they both equal 24. exclude the endings like idhin and woman you get 12.
ibnishaq

by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?


hahaa...I thought you'd never ask! Now you know how is the trick played!

Rajul (Singular) - Rejaal (Plural)
Imra'ah (singular) - this word is irregular and does not have a plural (women) means Nisa'a in Arabic.
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?


hahaa...I thought you'd never ask! Now you know how is the trick played!

Rajul (Singular) - Rejaal (Plural)
Imra'ah (singular) - this word is irregular and does not have a plural (women) means Nisa'a in Arabic.

humm. interesting!

can you do a search to see how many times rejaal is used in the qu'ran? i tried but it came with no results but i might have mispelled it wrong.

http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all
there you can click that and type in rejaal and see how many times. please!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?


hahaa...I thought you'd never ask! Now you know how is the trick played!

Rajul (Singular) - Rejaal (Plural)
Imra'ah (singular) - this word is irregular and does not have a plural (women) means Nisa'a in Arabic.

humm. interesting!

can you do a search to see how many times rejaal is used in the qu'ran? i tried but it came with no results but i might have mispelled it wrong.

http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all
there you can click that and type in rejaal and see how many times. please!


This is word Rejal (men) in Arabic - رجال

And it appeared 5 times, check for yourself! The miracle is phony and the criteria is flawed!

I really would recommend you stop focusing on the numerical miracles and focus on the people who are being killed every day because of Islam.
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?


hahaa...I thought you'd never ask! Now you know how is the trick played!

Rajul (Singular) - Rejaal (Plural)
Imra'ah (singular) - this word is irregular and does not have a plural (women) means Nisa'a in Arabic.

humm. interesting!

can you do a search to see how many times rejaal is used in the qu'ran? i tried but it came with no results but i might have mispelled it wrong.

http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all
there you can click that and type in rejaal and see how many times. please!


This is word Rejal (men) in Arabic - رجال

And it appeared 5 times, check for yourself! The miracle is phony and the criteria is flawed!

I really would recommend you stop focusing on the numerical miracles and focus on the people who are being killed every day because of Islam.

humm. i did not know that there was plural or rajul(rejal)!! i thought that it was a whole other word like nisa and imraat.

well i do suppose my iman is going a bit more down! except that man and woman is still 24 which bugs me. then again though men and women should be same too if it was true miracle! at least to my speculation.

would it be likely that such coincidences could happen? or would it be likely that someone forged it to make it seem like a miracle?

i am moving forward! thanks to you!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
by the way. is there a plural for rajul or imraat?


hahaa...I thought you'd never ask! Now you know how is the trick played!

Rajul (Singular) - Rejaal (Plural)
Imra'ah (singular) - this word is irregular and does not have a plural (women) means Nisa'a in Arabic.

humm. interesting!

can you do a search to see how many times rejaal is used in the qu'ran? i tried but it came with no results but i might have mispelled it wrong.

http://www.searchtruth.com/search...ds_display=10&search_word=all
there you can click that and type in rejaal and see how many times. please!


This is word Rejal (men) in Arabic - رجال

And it appeared 5 times, check for yourself! The miracle is phony and the criteria is flawed!

I really would recommend you stop focusing on the numerical miracles and focus on the people who are being killed every day because of Islam.

humm. i did not know that there was plural or rajul(rejal)!! i thought that it was a whole other word like nisa and imraat.

well i do suppose my iman is going a bit more down! except that man and woman is still 24 which bugs me. then again though men and women should be same too if it was true miracle! at least to my speculation.

would it be likely that such coincidences could happen? or would it be likely that someone forged it to make it seem like a miracle?

i am moving forward! thanks to you!


One last and final response on numbers, so that we can move on to more important issues in Islam.

Let's say you have 50 of the word "child" in all its different forms, i.e (Children, dual in Arabic, child of, your child, his child) and so forth.....Now I need to achieve 24, so what I do as I set the criteria that would achieve me this number be excluding some of the other words, like plural and so....

The whole thing has been manipulated.

Now one thing that is so obvious in this conversation, you're a Muslim and not an Arabic speaker. See how you struggle with words in meanings!!! Why did God issue his last word in a language spoken by few? And will an non_Arabic speakers ever really understand the Quran?

To me this what shows that the Quran is created by an Arabian man and not the God of all people and the universe...

Gotta have dinner now...See you around!
ibnishaq

humm good point.

well, you said lets move on to other issues so lets do it!

soo, what kind of errors did you find in the qu'ran that stuck out to you?

while you eat dinner i am going to sleep. 3:45 am here!

so i hope to see an answer tomorrow when i get back! (i am a high maintenance bitch!) lol j/k.

te dua!
Thinker

I would like to point out a myth which exists in the Koran.  When the Koran was revealed it was believed the spheres of the seven heavens were visible to the naked eye.  

Here it is in the Koran:

067.003
YUSUFALI: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

The Koran is telling us that there is no flaw in the the seven heavens, and to use our vision to confirm this.
This must mean they are visible and therefore the Koran is in error.

How do you explain this Ibinshaq?
ibnishaq

Thinker wrote:
I would like to point out a myth which exists in the Koran.  When the Koran was revealed it was believed the spheres of the seven heavens were visible to the naked eye.  

Here it is in the Koran:

067.003
YUSUFALI: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

The Koran is telling us that there is no flaw in the the seven heavens, and to use our vision to confirm this.
This must mean they are visible and therefore the Koran is in error.

How do you explain this Ibinshaq?

good question but the verse never says we can see them!
Raza

Ibnishaq, for the sake of yourself, please don't ask too much questions, if you do, you will eventually leave Islam. Islam is a great religion, but there are something that can't comprehended by us and can not be explained through internet. Please and please, visit a mosque and ask the questions that are bugging you.
There is more miracles in the Holy Quran than just "the word day is written 30 times", if you consider that a miracle.
ibnishaq

so if i ask too much questions i will leave islam, is that what youre saying?

you just dug a deep hole. it sounds as if you are saying that i should not search too much or i will realize it is not true.
ibnishaq

also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?
Baal

ibnishaq wrote:
Thinker wrote:
I would like to point out a myth which exists in the Koran.  When the Koran was revealed it was believed the spheres of the seven heavens were visible to the naked eye.  

Here it is in the Koran:

067.003
YUSUFALI: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

The Koran is telling us that there is no flaw in the the seven heavens, and to use our vision to confirm this.
This must mean they are visible and therefore the Koran is in error.

How do you explain this Ibinshaq?

good question but the verse never says we can see them!

It does say 'See' them. You can choose to ignore he literal form and accept it as figurative if you want. But you can not go around denying the text to fit a view or an interpretation.

67:3  Allathee khalaqa sabAAa samawatin tibaqan ma tara fee khalqi alrrahmani min tafawutin fairjiAAi albasara hal tara min futoorin
Baal

ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.
Thinker

ibnishaq wrote:
Thinker wrote:
I would like to point out a myth which exists in the Koran.  When the Koran was revealed it was believed the spheres of the seven heavens were visible to the naked eye.  

Here it is in the Koran:

067.003
YUSUFALI: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

The Koran is telling us that there is no flaw in the the seven heavens, and to use our vision to confirm this.
This must mean they are visible and therefore the Koran is in error.

How do you explain this Ibinshaq?

good question but the verse never says we can see them!


Ibinshaq you have asked for errors to be shown in the Koran but when they are shown you refuse to address the evidence and seem to put your head in the sand.  If this is going to be your attitude then pointing out any error will be a waste of time.

So lets look at the evidence again:

067.003
YUSUFALI: He Who created the seven heavens one above another: No want of proportion wilt thou see in the Creation of (Allah) Most Gracious. So turn thy vision again: seest thou any flaw?

You strangely claim that the above verse does not say we can see the seven heavens, which is not true as demonstrated by Baal.
The Koran tells us  there are no flaws in the seven heavens and to confirm this by turning your vision to see this for yourself.

So how are you suppose to see the seven heavens using your vision if they arey are not visible?



The very next verse goes on to say our vision will become worn out as you won't find any flaws with the seven heavens.

Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out.


Infact the Koran makes it very clear to us that we can see the seven heavens:

071.015
YUSUFALI: "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,
071.016
YUSUFALI: "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

Only the stupid or dishonest would claim the Koran doesn't say they are visible to us.

So if we are to take you seriously regarding errors in the koran maybe you can answer these specific questions.

1.How are we supposed to look for any flaws in the seven heavens if they are not visible?
2.Why does the Koran tell us to use our vision to look at these seven heavens if they are not visible?
3.Why does the Koran say our vision will become fatigued by analysing the seven heavens for flaws?
4.Why does the Koran say we can see the seven heavns the way we can see the sun and the moon.

Like I said before when the Koran was revealed it was a popular myth that the seven heavens were visible one above another.
Why does the Koran say the same thing?

Failure to answer these questions will indiacate you're just wasting our time.
It takes just one error to prove the Koran is not from God so unless you can prove these claims wrong there is no point in looking at other error in the Koran.
ibnishaq

Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.


but it was still on cnn international!

i know it is very cheesy but why do you think the flower does that?
Baal

ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.


but it was still on cnn international!

i know it is very cheesy but why do you think the flower does that?

Absolutely not. The flower does not open up during Azan time. flowers are known to close at night and open during the day, some flowers even dramatically so.

It is more like the Azan went on while the flower was opening, when the Sun comes up.
ibnishaq

Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.


but it was still on cnn international!

i know it is very cheesy but why do you think the flower does that?

Absolutely not. The flower does not open up during Azan time. flowers are known to close at night and open during the day, some flowers even dramatically so.

It is more like the Azan went on while the flower was opening, when the Sun comes up.

but it also opened at sunset too!

not only that, but the flower opened in a matter of seconds. it generally takes 2 hours!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.


but it was still on cnn international!

i know it is very cheesy but why do you think the flower does that?

Absolutely not. The flower does not open up during Azan time. flowers are known to close at night and open during the day, some flowers even dramatically so.

It is more like the Azan went on while the flower was opening, when the Sun comes up.

but it also opened at sunset too!

not only that, but the flower opened in a matter of seconds. it generally takes 2 hours!


I am actually going to refuse to comment on such silly orchestrated stunts.

I bet you if I go and have a look at this myself I will find out how they conned the simple-minded people who always need a sign or a miracle in order to strengthen their faith!

Ibnishaq

I am afraid you're looking in the wrong places and looking the wrong way! You're focusing mainly on miracles to prove Islam, yet your definition and perception of miracles is flawed.

You should rather look at those who get killed, lashed and stoned on daily basis.

How beautiful is a flower opening upon the Muslim prayer, while on the some other spot in the world a woman is getting 200 lashes for being raped and another innocent is being beheaded for having a different opinion????

I don't give a shit about the flower and I think it's ugly! I also think that the loud speaker prayers 5 times a day is nothing but a show to terrorize the enemy. Prayer should be private and personal, not the pre-made recitation that people go through quickly, so that they can catch their favorite TV Show.

Please get your priorities and methods right Ibnishaq!
Thinker

Ibinshaq are you going to respond to my post or choose to put your head in the sand?
Raza

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Baal wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?

Report prepared by Lider TV, Azerbaijan.


but it was still on cnn international!

i know it is very cheesy but why do you think the flower does that?

Absolutely not. The flower does not open up during Azan time. flowers are known to close at night and open during the day, some flowers even dramatically so.

It is more like the Azan went on while the flower was opening, when the Sun comes up.

but it also opened at sunset too!

not only that, but the flower opened in a matter of seconds. it generally takes 2 hours!


I am actually going to refuse to comment on such silly orchestrated stunts.

Just explain it to me, man.
I am not as a smart as you.
All_Brains

1. Can you all please watch this video again specially towards the end when the reporter was about to start talking about the scientific reasoning. For some strange reason the video stopped there!

2. How do I know that that Azan was actually being played while the flower is opening? The Azan could have been put later is a sound effect.

3. Judging by this logic and the fact this is the only flower that displays such behavior, the rest of the plants are infidels apart  from this one flower, this flower is a good Muslim!!

Come on guys, people are losing their lives and limbs every day. Please use your brains!
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
1. Can you all please watch this video again specially towards the end when the reporter was about to start talking about the scientific reasoning. For some strange reason the video stopped there!

not true! when  watch it at the end, he says that the video was produced by and then states the company in his language!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
1. Can you all please watch this video again specially towards the end when the reporter was about to start talking about the scientific reasoning. For some strange reason the video stopped there!

not true! when  watch it at the end, he says that the video was produced by and then states the company in his language!


You're right! Apologies.

He's stating that there are three sides (Religious, scientific and natural). I have got the list bit confused.
ibnishaq

yeah!

ok i am at the FINAL straw of leaving islam. raza just said on a forum that john paul 2nd was going to hell for dying a non muslim. that made me think of mother teresa who is from albania who everyone knows about! i thought how culd this poor lady be n eternal hell for not being muslim when she has done so much to help others! and i started to cry and lost most of my iman and now it is at an all time low!! and then i started to think about you because you are such a sweet person(all brains). and i could never see you being in eternal punishment.


so i think after this SILLY thing i will leave islam. i think i am over the numbers thing which was ridiculous for me to base my faith off of in the first place.

but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!
Mutley

Wow, I wish I could say a few things to you, but I couldn't be more certain that it would be bad and that you wouldn't be at the exact position to hear them. My heart goes out to you. Such is the journey of life. But those who truly seek, will find. You WILL be answered if you truly, continually, diligently seek. Do not lose heart. Sorry, but that's all I could possibly say until you are ready to hear. I can't tell you anything else, because one day, you will tell yourself. I could never tell you anything that you couldn't tell yourself better than me. That's the problem with giving advice. It never works.
ibnishaq

Well, I would love for you to tell me!!

We need to hear things, even if we are not ready to. Personally, I cannot say if I am ready or not. So tell me and we will see!
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
yeah!

ok i am at the FINAL straw of leaving islam. raza just said on a forum that john paul 2nd was going to hell for dying a non muslim. that made me think of mother teresa who is from albania who everyone knows about! i thought how culd this poor lady be n eternal hell for not being muslim when she has done so much to help others! and i started to cry and lost most of my iman and now it is at an all time low!! and then i started to think about you because you are such a sweet person(all brains). and i could never see you being in eternal punishment.


so i think after this SILLY thing i will leave islam. i think i am over the numbers thing which was ridiculous for me to base my faith off of in the first place.

but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


Hi Ibnishaq

Now you started to see clearly, how can mother Teresa go to hell? So God does not really then care about how good we are! All what he cares about is to find him amongst the 1000s of Gods available!!!

So not stealing is not a virtue if the person is not a Muslim. The person is bound to hell anyway
Not stealing or stealing is immaterial in Islam, as if you believe in Allah, you will still make it to heaven "eventually".

How fair and just is the above?
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


I think it's some sort of trick Shaq! I am very skeptic by nature and need to be in front of that flower myself to be able to verify the incident. There are so many tricks that can be played through montage and video editing and David Copperfield has done better and more convincing than that!
Raza

They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW).
4:89
All_Brains

Raza wrote:
They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya' (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW).
4:89


Raza

How does the above verse compensate for Ibnishaq's confusion with regards to Islam and its hell concepts when it comes to "real good humans" who happen to believe in Islam????

The above verse is a protective verse designed and authored based on the logical prediction that some will be leaving Islam on their own or aided by others. It's clear objective is to play on the emotions of leaving one's belief, but does it provide a reason why Islam should not be left????
Raza

All_Brains, you are trying to make him reject faith, so "that you all become equal (like one another)".
All_Brains

Raza wrote:
All_Brains, you are trying to make him reject faith, so "that you all become equal (like one another)".


This where Islam brain washed people into segregation.

I actually think that we're all equal. You are equal to me, in rights that is...for we both share the most important factor (and it's not faith) it's HUMANITY!!!
Raza

All_Brains wrote:
Raza wrote:
All_Brains, you are trying to make him reject faith, so "that you all become equal (like one another)".


This where Islam brain washed people into segregation.

I actually think that we're all equal. You are equal to me, in rights that is...for we both share the most important factor (and it's not faith) it's HUMANITY!!!

In the eyes of Allah, you are not equal to the people who believe in Allah.
ibnishaq

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


I think it's some sort of trick Shaq! I am very skeptic by nature and need to be in front of that flower myself to be able to verify the incident. There are so many tricks that can be played through montage and video editing and David Copperfield has done better and more convincing than that!

CNN would not lie!!! i mean i could not see CNN posting a video of a lie silly!!
Raza

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


I think it's some sort of trick Shaq! I am very skeptic by nature and need to be in front of that flower myself to be able to verify the incident. There are so many tricks that can be played through montage and video editing and David Copperfield has done better and more convincing than that!

CNN would not lie!!! i mean i could not see CNN posting a video of a lie silly!!


If you think that Quran is not the word of God, just leave Islam.
Forgot about the video. I think you like the attention that you are getting.
KrisP

ibnishaq wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


I think it's some sort of trick Shaq! I am very skeptic by nature and need to be in front of that flower myself to be able to verify the incident. There are so many tricks that can be played through montage and video editing and David Copperfield has done better and more convincing than that!

CNN would not lie!!! i mean i could not see CNN posting a video of a lie silly!!


I might be able to help with this. July we had torrential thunderstorms where I live which lasted a few days. I made the comment, "Next god will send down a plague of locust or frogs." The next morning I get set to leave for work, I open the garage and behold a plague of frogs.

1..5..10..20..40... I stopped counting around 50, it's tough counting frogs.

Here is one of the buggers.....



Was it god sending me a message or was it a collusion of circumstances?

The answer is simple, it was a collusion of circumstances. The comment I made was in response to the never ending rainfall, denoting Noah's ark and theology. The frogs where driven out of there regular spots because of the amount of rain, it happens sometimes. But neither of that explains why they invaded my driveway.  The answer.....



Cicadas, a once every 17 year occurrence.  The rain forced the cicadas onto the driveway and the frogs decided to have a feast.

It's all in how you think of the situation. If I was a religious fanatic I would have taken it as a sign from god without the need for any explanation. But I am not, therefore I looked at it logically and understood the collusion of circumstances that occurred.
All_Brains

Thanks KrisP for the valuable post and visual aid!
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
yeah!

ok i am at the FINAL straw of leaving islam. raza just said on a forum that john paul 2nd was going to hell for dying a non muslim. that made me think of mother teresa who is from albania who everyone knows about! i thought how culd this poor lady be n eternal hell for not being muslim when she has done so much to help others! and i started to cry and lost most of my iman and now it is at an all time low!! and then i started to think about you because you are such a sweet person(all brains). and i could never see you being in eternal punishment.


so i think after this SILLY thing i will leave islam. i think i am over the numbers thing which was ridiculous for me to base my faith off of in the first place.

but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


Hi Ibnishaq

Now you started to see clearly, how can mother Teresa go to hell? So God does not really then care about how good we are! All what he cares about is to find him amongst the 1000s of Gods available!!!

So not stealing is not a virtue if the person is not a Muslim. The person is bound to hell anyway
Not stealing or stealing is immaterial in Islam, as if you believe in Allah, you will still make it to heaven "eventually".

How fair and just is the above?



Total crap

if you read the Quran, you should know that the believers too are promised with Hell, i.e. everyone is going to be punished in hell accoridng to the sins committed, unfortunately for all of us KUFR is the worest sin as documented in God's law hence incurring the most severe punishment
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
yeah!

ok i am at the FINAL straw of leaving islam. raza just said on a forum that john paul 2nd was going to hell for dying a non muslim. that made me think of mother teresa who is from albania who everyone knows about! i thought how culd this poor lady be n eternal hell for not being muslim when she has done so much to help others! and i started to cry and lost most of my iman and now it is at an all time low!! and then i started to think about you because you are such a sweet person(all brains). and i could never see you being in eternal punishment.


so i think after this SILLY thing i will leave islam. i think i am over the numbers thing which was ridiculous for me to base my faith off of in the first place.

but i do ask since you are smart. why did the flower open so quickly when it usually takes 2 hours, and why did it open during prayer time? just wondering!


Hi Ibnishaq

Now you started to see clearly, how can mother Teresa go to hell? So God does not really then care about how good we are! All what he cares about is to find him amongst the 1000s of Gods available!!!

So not stealing is not a virtue if the person is not a Muslim. The person is bound to hell anyway
Not stealing or stealing is immaterial in Islam, as if you believe in Allah, you will still make it to heaven "eventually".

How fair and just is the above?



Total crap

if you read the Quran, you should know that the believers too are promised with Hell, i.e. everyone is going to be punished in hell accoridng to the sins committed, unfortunately for all of us KUFR is the worest sin as documented in God's law hence incurring the most severe punishment


Sure I am aware of that, however this is the end result.

1. An excellent human being will end up straight away in "eternal" hell because he/she did not believe in Islam.
2. An evil human being will end up "eternally" in heaven, after a spell in hell, because he/she believed in Islam.

I will let the people to judge the above according to their own set of ethics and morals.
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
Sure I am aware of that, however this is the end result.

1. An excellent human being will end up straight away in "eternal" hell because he/she did not believe in Islam.
2. An evil human being will end up "eternally" in heaven, after a spell in hell, because he/she believed in Islam.

I will let the people to judge the above according to their own set of ethics and morals.



again, total crap, this is because if you read the Quran you should know that Allah said in it that those who will enter heaven will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise, and those who will enter HELL will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise,

I.E. THE ETERNAL HELL or THE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT CAN NOT BE EVEN SECURED with certainity
HomoErectus

ibnishaq wrote:
also this sounds really cheesy but i saw this today and it was from CNN so i figured it was at least worth showing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs6keJklklU

why is that flower opening at that time?


Hi ibnishaq

In order to get rid of THIS nonsense, I'm posting my reply also here in this forum, just to reach more people with it.....

here's what i posted about this "phenomenon" !

_______


DEBUNKED, right here and NOW !!

So, lets solve this "mystery", once and for all times...

I know this "flower" very well !
It grows in our garden, like a PEST !
You have one in the first year, and five in the next year and 37 in the third year !
And its pretty hard to get rid of them, since the roots go very deep, and you literally have to dig them out !
If you don't take 'em out, they will "eat up" all the rest of your garden !

In german it is called "NACHTKERZE" (Oenothera biennis) !

Here's a pic, and you will easily recognize it !
[when I first read the story, I instantly thought of these flowers, but always postponed the clearance about it !



It so happens that this flower is starting to bloom when the sun goes down !!!
Even the name, in german, says exactly this !
Nachtkerze = Nightcandle !!!

You may look it up in google, just put in the german name, and there you go, and you will find many results, since a lot of stuff [creams] are made of it !

Update: the english name of this flower is "common evening-primrose"

Laugh any guy out of the room, out of the area, when he's trying to "sell" you this HOAX !

And before, make him look it up in google too, so he wont come back with this NONSENSE !

Thats how they look, when they already have taken over...

HomoErectus

ibnishaq wrote:
so if i ask too much questions i will leave islam, is that what youre saying?

you just dug a deep hole. it sounds as if you are saying that i should not search too much or i will realize it is not true.


Very good reply, ibnishaq.....
And so TRUE !!!!

Guess why muslims are [islamically] being kept ignorant, and are not supposed to look for the truth !

Oh, and btw, since you were specifically asking this question, the flower above, shown in the "miracle" video, DOES open at SUNSET, and it opens in a very short time, like ten minutes or so...
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure I am aware of that, however this is the end result.

1. An excellent human being will end up straight away in "eternal" hell because he/she did not believe in Islam.
2. An evil human being will end up "eternally" in heaven, after a spell in hell, because he/she believed in Islam.

I will let the people to judge the above according to their own set of ethics and morals.



again, total crap, this is because if you read the Quran you should know that Allah said in it that those who will enter heaven will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise, and those who will enter HELL will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise,

I.E. THE ETERNAL HELL or THE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT CAN NOT BE EVEN SECURED with certainity


Sure, I know that too....

So, after all the hard work required by God it's still very unclear who will go to hell and heaven and for how long?

The message is loud and clear "Allah know best"! That's very satisfying!
ibnishaq

homoerectus

i no longer believe it is  a miracle, BUT i still have problems accepting it is evening primrose. only one in particular.

on the video when it showed the flower closed, this is how it looked..


however when evening primrose is closed, there is this covering thing that is green over it.



so. idk
ibnishaq

oh wait, nvm they DO indeed have that little green covering over them!! it was just oepned enough on one side to hide it but i looked again and clearly saw them!

so it can not be mirabalis jalapa now because mirabalis jalapa does not have that!
Raza

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure I am aware of that, however this is the end result.

1. An excellent human being will end up straight away in "eternal" hell because he/she did not believe in Islam.
2. An evil human being will end up "eternally" in heaven, after a spell in hell, because he/she believed in Islam.

I will let the people to judge the above according to their own set of ethics and morals.



again, total crap, this is because if you read the Quran you should know that Allah said in it that those who will enter heaven will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise, and those who will enter HELL will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise,

I.E. THE ETERNAL HELL or THE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT CAN NOT BE EVEN SECURED with certainity

Could you please quote if from a Quran?
I think all people who shirk go to hell.
ibnishaq

Raza wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure I am aware of that, however this is the end result.

1. An excellent human being will end up straight away in "eternal" hell because he/she did not believe in Islam.
2. An evil human being will end up "eternally" in heaven, after a spell in hell, because he/she believed in Islam.

I will let the people to judge the above according to their own set of ethics and morals.



again, total crap, this is because if you read the Quran you should know that Allah said in it that those who will enter heaven will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise, and those who will enter HELL will abide in it EXCEPT if Allah wants otherwise,

I.E. THE ETERNAL HELL or THE ETERNAL PUNISHMENT CAN NOT BE EVEN SECURED with certainity

Could you please quote if from a Quran?
I think all people who shirk go to hell.

ew you are nasty to believe that! no offense
HomoErectus

ibnishaq wrote:
homoerectus

i no longer believe it is  a miracle, BUT i still have problems accepting it is evening primrose. only one in particular.



Dear ibnishaq

Good to see you don't believe in THIS miracle anymore, what made you change your mind ?
And what about the other socalled "miracles" ?
Do you believe in "miracles" at all ?

As for the primrose, it is like I said.
If you had taken a closer look at the first pic i posted you would have seen that...

the green leaves are there !

They cover the still young bud, and when it has grown up, it will burst through the green leaves, leaving them at the stem, right under the flower. Look at the pic again. Even there you can see the young buds, still green, above the yellow ones,



The evening primrose keeps producing buds endlessly, and all of them look green, like in the pic you posted. When the flower finally has come out and blooms, it will close only its own yellow leaves, and open again, and again, till its over, and it falls off. New buds will take over, and the whole plant will go on blooming.

Rest assured, it IS the evening primrose !

And this proclaimed "miracle" proves again how CROOKED muslim advocates are, tring to make it a miracle !

Now, would a real god need silly stuff like this ?

THINK on your own, with logic and information from all kinds of sources, and you will finally be able to detect a HOAX yourself.

Don't fall back into the TRAPS again, just because some whacko comes around telling you LIES !

I could also play a song by the rolling stones, in the evening, and - whow - the flower will open up !
Shall we call the stones "holy" just becasue of that ?

All the best on your way out of this oppressionist ideology, aiming at controlling you and your mind !

RESIST !

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