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AhmedBahgat

Exposing the gang of deceit

anna wrote:
The blatant fact that “allah” is not alone is confirmed elsewhere in your book of faith, as demonstrated in this grouping…

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

Occurrences of “laqawlun” in the Koran: 3
Locations: 69.40, 81.19, 86.13



Hello all

Let me expose the gang of deceit led by conman chicken lie, conwoman anna and their ignorant assliker brainout

I only need to reply to one error to expose them and that should be enough to send all of them to the filtheist rubbish bin on earth:

See above how the conwoman anna translated 81:19

such a deceitful woman she is man, I can't believe how ignornat, deceitful, filthy and low most of the kafirs in here

let me now expose the conwoman anna as I did with her gang master chicken lie 2 years ago on free-minds.org and 1 year ago on this web site:

let me start with tis comment by Chicken Lie to me on www.free-minds.org:

January 04, 2006, 07:29:02 PM
Apple Pie wrote:

Thanks for affirming that Jesus is God.....!!!


I replied to him as follow:

January 04, 2006, 07:47:16 PM
AhmedBahgat wrote:

you are a manipulator and a liar, firstly I didn't say that, secondly PROVE YOUR CALIM THAT JESUS IS GOD FROM THE QURAN but not from the hebrow rubbish you post

now the onus is on your neck to prove that the Quran said jesus is god, and if you don't you will be classified in my books as a manipulator, a liar, a fabricator, a confused being and a lost soul

your call



He came back later with this proof:

January 04, 2006, 08:21:40 PM
Apple Pie wrote:

Sure thing...

ذِي قُوَّةٍ عِنْدَ ذِي الْعَرْشِ مَكِينٍ


Obvioulsy he is an idiot to claim that the Quran says jesus is god then come back with the above line, here is what I told him:

January 04, 2006, 08:32:58 PM
AhmedBahgat wrote:

Excuse me sir

what that suppose to tell me exactly?, I could not see Isa's name any where in the verse neither I read that he is god

here is a the verse and the one before it:

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ (19)

ذِي قُوَّةٍ عِندَ ذِي الْعَرْشِ مَكِينٍ (20)

[The Quran ; 81:19-20]

-> Verse 81:19 "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

-> Verse 81:20 "Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne"

Are you suffering from low IQ or somethin bro?, the verses are clear as light it is talking about prophet Mohammad, and even if you dispute that Mohammad was not mentioned, that is fine, you must at least concede, it was about one of Allah messnegers as 81:19 CLEARLY STATES "Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger, "

NEXT AP


He came back with the following rubbish:

January 04, 2006, 08:39:00 PM
Apple Pie wrote:

Now....try exegeting what it states...

Summary of 81.19

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

> Revelation tells us that the ?logos?, or Word, of God, is Jesus
> 81.19 begins by informing us of something that is ?inna?, or certain
> This thing that is certain is applied to ?qawlu?, or Word, via the personal pronoun ?hu?, or His, and possessive affirmative particle ?la? ? thus giving the Word as an inherent attribute of Him
> ?laqawlu? occurs three times in the Koran, and in each occurrence it is beyond any reasonable doubt that it directly refers to Jesus
> 81.19 also informs us that His Word is a ?kareemin?, or holy, ?rasoolin?, or message
> Sura 81 acknowledges Jesus as the Word of God

Summary of 81.20

ذِي قُوَّةٍ عِنْدَ ذِي الْعَرْشِ مَكِينٍ

Thee quwwatin AAinda thee alAAarshi makeenin

81.20 Lord of power in the presence and possession of the throne, the established one.

> Revelation tells us that the Jesus occupies the Throne of God

> 81.20 builds upon 81.19 by informing us that His Word (i.e. Jesus) with the Holy Message, is ?thee? (genitive case) in possession of ?quwwatin? (singular), or the one (and only) power

> Amazingly, in addition to ?quwwatin? referring to power or strength, it also has the meaning ?and separately twisted portion of two or more which, being twisted together, compose the whole of a rope, and of a string, or thread?

> Thus, ?quwwatin? conveys the idea of two (or more) things intertwined to become one thing

> Revelation informs us that the Lamb is in the ?mesos?, or midst of the ?thronos?, or throne

> Likewise, 81.20 tells us that He is ?inda? (A particle used as a preposition to denote time and place), or in the presence of ?alAAarshi?, or the throne

> There are numerous Koranic examples where allah is ?Lord of the throne?; thus, when the Word (i.e. Jesus) is referred to as Lord of the Throne ? there can be no doubt that Jesus is God

> 81.20 specifically utilizes ?thee? twice in this one ayah; the first is to signify possession of the singular power of the Word, and the second is used to signify the possession of the throne by the Word

> Revelation tells us that the one sitting on the throne is of the appearance of ?sardinos?, or a reddish brown variety of chalcedony

> Interestingly, 81.20 describes the ?arshi?, or throne as ?a red sapphire, which glistens with the light of the supreme?

> 81.20 closes by mentioning ?makeenin?, or the established one, from the root ?makuna? (meaning he made Him to have dominion) which clearly indicates that the Word (from 81.19), is God Almighty

> The authors of the Koran copied the Book of Revelation, and, more importantly, they understood who the Biblical Jesus is. Revelation clearly shows us the deity interchangeability between God and Jesus, as they are one in the same. Ironically, this ayah also demonstrates the same exact thing by showing that the two are, in fact, one in the same


I replied as follow:

January 12, 2006, 12:24:42 AM


"Apple Pie" : Now....try exegeting what it states...

"AhmedBahgat" : Sure, but I hope you don?t mean ?try manipulating what it states...?
Look bro, I don't have time to waste, I will give you a max of 3 lies and if reached, I have to terminate my discussion with you, that is what my book says bro, sorry.

"Apple Pie" : Summary of 81.19
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ
Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

"AhmedBahgat" : Good, you pronounced it right, did you do it, or you just copied it then pasted it?

"Apple Pie" : 81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

"AhmedBahgat" :I guess this is the proposed translation by you to 81:19, thank you for that, let's now examine your translation word for word:

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ, you translated it as : Certainly His Word is, oh please AP, you can fool a non Arabic speaker, but what makes you think that you can fool an Arabic speaker like me?, well here is your first lie, the verse never related the Qawlu to any entity, why the hell you added his to it?, this is how it should be : Most surely it is the Word of

1 lie lost, 2 lies left

رَسُولٍ, you translated it as : message, LOL bro, I guess with this one you can't even fool the NON Arabic speakers because they know very well what Rasoolin means, which surely means Messenger, so to translate it as Message has to be considered a clear cut lie

2 lies lost, 1 lie left

كَرِيمٍ , you translated it as : a Holy, bro what non sense is this, what makes you hallucinate thinking there is sense in what your post?, the Arabic word MUST be translated as : An honoured

You've just lost your last lie bro, bad luck

Let's recap your lies:

You translated the following Arabic verse:

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ
[The Quran ; 81:19]

To this:

Certainly His Word is a Holy message ٍ
[Misleading and wrong translation by AP]

BUT IT SHOULD BE:

Most surely it is the Word of an honored messenger
[The Quran ; 81:19]

Your 3 clear cut lies are highlighted in red and the correct translation are highlighted in blue

As I said AP, you are allowed 3 lies only per comment, and you consumed it all in a sentence that is 6 words, wow this means 50% of what you say is nothing but lies, this is no good bro, you will look very bad like this, I'm sure you lost creditability already, I tell you what bro, try to be honest and you may gain it back, did Santa come to you this Xmas?, I'm sure Santa does not visit liars, can you please confirm?

The rest of you comment MUST be ignored bro, too many lies by you and I hate dialoguing with convict liars

Apple Pie wrote:

? Revelation tells us that the ?logos?, or Word, of God, is Jesus
? 81.19 begins by informing us of something that is ?inna?, or certain
? This thing that is certain is applied to ?qawlu?, or Word, via the personal pronoun ?hu?, or His, and possessive affirmative particle ?la? ? thus giving the Word as an inherent attribute of Him
? ?laqawlu? occurs three times in the Koran, and in each occurrence it is beyond any reasonable doubt that it directly refers to Jesus
? 81.19 also informs us that His Word is a ?kareemin?, or holy, ?rasoolin?, or message
? Sura 81 acknowledges Jesus as the Word of God




Summary of 81.20

ذِي قُوَّةٍ عِنْدَ ذِي الْعَرْشِ مَكِينٍ

Thee quwwatin AAinda thee alAAarshi makeenin

81.20 Lord of power in the presence and possession of the throne, the established one.


? Revelation tells us that the Jesus occupies the Throne of God
? 81.20 builds upon 81.19 by informing us that His Word (i.e. Jesus) with the Holy Message, is ?thee? (genitive case) in possession of ?quwwatin? (singular), or the one (and only) power
? Amazingly, in addition to ?quwwatin? referring to power or strength, it also has the meaning ?and separately twisted portion of two or more which, being twisted together, compose the whole of a rope, and of a string, or thread?
? Thus, ?quwwatin? conveys the idea of two (or more) things intertwined to become one thing
? Revelation informs us that the Lamb is in the ?mesos?, or midst of the ?thronos?, or throne
? Likewise, 81.20 tells us that He is ?inda? (A particle used as a preposition to denote time and place), or in the presence of ?alAAarshi?, or the throne
? There are numerous Koranic examples where allah is ?Lord of the throne?; thus, when the Word (i.e. Jesus) is referred to as Lord of the Throne ? there can be no doubt that Jesus is God
? 81.20 specifically utilizes ?thee? twice in this one ayah; the first is to signify possession of the singular power of the Word, and the second is used to signify the possession of the throne by the Word
? Revelation tells us that the one sitting on the throne is of the appearance of ?sardinos?, or a reddish brown variety of chalcedony
? Interestingly, 81.20 describes the ?arshi?, or throne as ?a red sapphire, which glistens with the light of the supreme?
? 81.20 closes by mentioning ?makeenin?, or the established one, from the root ?makuna? (meaning he made Him to have dominion) which clearly indicates that the Word (from 81.19), is God Almighty
? The authors of the Koran copied the Book of Revelation, and, more importantly, they understood who the Biblical Jesus is. Revelation clearly shows us the deity interchangeability between God and Jesus, as they are one in the same. Ironically, this ayah also demonstrates the same exact thing by showing that the two are, in fact, one in the same


"AhmedBahgat" : Because you have been proven to be a clear cut liar and a conman, the above MUST be dismissed
Mutley

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
anna wrote:
The blatant fact that “allah” is not alone is confirmed elsewhere in your book of faith, as demonstrated in this grouping…

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

Occurrences of “laqawlun” in the Koran: 3
Locations: 69.40, 81.19, 86.13



Hello all

Let me expose the gang of deceit led by conman chicken lie, conwoman anna and their ignorant assliker brainout


That's ass licker, moron, not ass liker. Most sexually healthy people like the look of an attractive ass, dodo. Butt based on your FFI avatar, I would say you not only like the look of an ass, but that you even prefer the ass for sex over the vagina based on the position you are pumping from mister poop chute.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

I only need to reply to one error to expose them and that should be enough to send all of them to the filtheist rubbish bin on earth:


How come people show more than one error in the Quran and you never send it to the rubbish bin?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

See above how the conwoman anna translated 81:19

such a deceitful woman she is man, I can't believe how ignornat, deceitful, filthy and low most of the kafirs in here

let me now expose the conwoman anna as I did with her gang master chicken lie 2 years ago on free-minds.org and 1 year ago on this web site:

let me start with tis comment by Chicken Lie to me on www.free-minds.org:

January 04, 2006, 07:29:02 PM
Apple Pie wrote:

Thanks for affirming that Jesus is God.....!!!


I replied to him as follow:

January 04, 2006, 07:47:16 PM
you are a manipulator and a liar, firstly I didn't say that, secondly PROVE YOUR CALIM


Calim? Is that some form of caliphate? Calimphate? Or is it shorthand for calamity?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

THAT JESUS IS GOD FROM THE QURAN but not from the hebrow rubbish you post

now the onus is on your neck to prove that the Quran said jesus is god, and if you don't you will be classified in my books as a manipulator, a liar, a fabricator, a confused being and a lost soul

your call


To where? Australia? Sorry, too expensive unless I sign up for Vonage.
AhmedBahgat

Sharmoot Mute

piss of my thread you filthy punk
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Sharmoot Mute

piss of my thread you filthy punk


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Isn't it a shame that All Brains invited me as well??? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Anyway, why are you doing Darth Vader in the rear? Or maybe C ME P hole.

BMZ

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

Ahmed,

Apple_Pie and the Likes

There is a huge problem these days which the evangelists are facing. Jesus has been turned into a man-god or god-man of many roles, which cannot be justifed and explained using the Holy Bible, which is full of ambiguities and contradictions.

The Christian apologists have tried their best to explain but to no avail. Now they are looking for Jesus in Qur'aan and evangelists like Apple-Pie are trying to look outside the Jewish Holy Scriptures, since the Jews have already confirmed that there is no Jesus in their Holy Scriptures. Here, we have to disregard the Christians' OT, which is a forged copy of the copy of the mistranslation done by 70 hired Jews, who translated the Jewish Holy Scriptures and gave their hirer/employer a bad translation in Greek known as the Septuagint or fonly known as LXX. The Christian holy scripture was written using that bad translation. And you know the pickle the Christians are in.

The apologist has no other alternative left but to try and find Jesus in Islam and Qur'aan. At least he can be found in Qur'aan as a humble Slave of God. In his desire to find Jesus in Qur'aan, the Christian apologists and apple_Pie find words such as 'wa huwa', meaning 'and he is' to mean He is. In "Yakhrujo" meaning "it comes out or he comes out", they see Jesus coming or issuing out or He comes out. Laughing

In the verse, 'Yakhrujo mim-bainas-sulb-e wat-taraaib" Apple_Pie sees Jesus coming out. LOL! He does not understand that the verse is talking about semen coming out or issuing out. He thinks Sulb is Saleeb (cross). Rotflmao. Laughing

Apple_Pie, like Ali Sina does not read, speak and understand Arabic. He writes from Christian resources produced for evangelist. I have written him off as folks at many other non-Muslim sites have written him off as a bigot and a hypocrite.

You are doing a good job by exposing him and you have my full support for doing so.

Salaams
BMZ
Raza

BMZ wrote:
Ahmed,

Apple_Pie and the Likes

There is a huge problem these days which the evangelists are facing. Jesus has been turned into a man-god or god-man of many roles, which cannot be justifed and explained using the Holy Bible, which is full of ambiguities and contradictions.

The Christian apologists have tried their best to explain but to no avail. Now they are looking for Jesus in Qur'aan and evangelists like Apple-Pie are trying to look outside the Jewish Holy Scriptures, since the Jews have already confirmed that there is no Jesus in their Holy Scriptures. Here, we have to disregard the Christians' OT, which is a forged copy of the copy of the mistranslation done by 70 hired Jews, who translated the Jewish Holy Scriptures and gave their hirer/employer a bad translation in Greek known as the Septuagint or fonly known as LXX. The Christian holy scripture was written using that bad translation. And you know the pickle the Christians are in.

The apologist has no other alternative left but to try and find Jesus in Islam and Qur'aan. At least he can be found in Qur'aan as a humble Slave of God. In his desire to find Jesus in Qur'aan, the Christian apologists and apple_Pie find words such as 'wa huwa', meaning 'and he is' to mean He is. In "Yakhrujo" meaning "it comes out or he comes out", they see Jesus coming or issuing out or He comes out. Laughing

In the verse, 'Yakhrujo mim-bainas-sulb-e wat-taraaib" Apple_Pie sees Jesus coming out. LOL! He does not understand that the verse is talking about semen coming out or issuing out. He thinks Sulb is Saleeb (cross). Rotflmao. Laughing

Apple_Pie, like Ali Sina does not read, speak and understand Arabic. He writes from Christian resources produced for evangelist. I have written him off as folks at many other non-Muslim sites have written him off as a bigot and a hypocrite.

You are doing a good job by exposing him and you have my full support for doing so.

Salaams
BMZ

I am in a Christian forum debating this
http://www.christianboard.com
join in the fun.
BMZ

Greetings, Coolway

cooolway wrote:
I am in a Christian forum debating this
http://www.christianboard.com
join in the fun.


Salaams,

My apologies on not writing to you earlier. Will visit that site and hope they do not ban me fast like others. Very Happy

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

cooolway wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Ahmed,

Apple_Pie and the Likes

There is a huge problem these days which the evangelists are facing. Jesus has been turned into a man-god or god-man of many roles, which cannot be justifed and explained using the Holy Bible, which is full of ambiguities and contradictions.

The Christian apologists have tried their best to explain but to no avail. Now they are looking for Jesus in Qur'aan and evangelists like Apple-Pie are trying to look outside the Jewish Holy Scriptures, since the Jews have already confirmed that there is no Jesus in their Holy Scriptures. Here, we have to disregard the Christians' OT, which is a forged copy of the copy of the mistranslation done by 70 hired Jews, who translated the Jewish Holy Scriptures and gave their hirer/employer a bad translation in Greek known as the Septuagint or fonly known as LXX. The Christian holy scripture was written using that bad translation. And you know the pickle the Christians are in.

The apologist has no other alternative left but to try and find Jesus in Islam and Qur'aan. At least he can be found in Qur'aan as a humble Slave of God. In his desire to find Jesus in Qur'aan, the Christian apologists and apple_Pie find words such as 'wa huwa', meaning 'and he is' to mean He is. In "Yakhrujo" meaning "it comes out or he comes out", they see Jesus coming or issuing out or He comes out. Laughing

In the verse, 'Yakhrujo mim-bainas-sulb-e wat-taraaib" Apple_Pie sees Jesus coming out. LOL! He does not understand that the verse is talking about semen coming out or issuing out. He thinks Sulb is Saleeb (cross). Rotflmao. Laughing

Apple_Pie, like Ali Sina does not read, speak and understand Arabic. He writes from Christian resources produced for evangelist. I have written him off as folks at many other non-Muslim sites have written him off as a bigot and a hypocrite.

You are doing a good job by exposing him and you have my full support for doing so.

Salaams
BMZ

I am in a Christian forum debating this
http://www.christianboard.com
join in the fun.


Salam

Here is somthing coool for you that will slam dunk your christians debaters

Hello All

Chriitians always accuse me of mocking Jesus peace be upon him, however I don't mock Jesus, because Jesus for me is exactly like Mohammad peace be upon both, it is the Christians who mock him for about 2000 years, they made him a joke, many humans at his time pissed on him before they killed him while he cried like a coward, and it suppose to be him, knowing that he has to die for us, this is just a load of non sense, I don't believe that Jesus died on the cross any way, so it is the Christians who mock him, not me, I'm defending him against that mocking by the Christians indeed.

Firstly to suggest that by calling Jesus son of god metaphorically will make him the son of god for real then all these humans must also be sons of god for real.
Jesus was calling his disciples as his children:

Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

John ; 13:33]

Would that mean that the disciples are also gods? Because they were described as the children of Jesus The son of god

In another location in John's Gospel we see Jesus telling the Jews, that Satan is their father:

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[John ; 8:44]

Would that mean that all the Jews are the sons of the devil Satan?

In Luke, we read that Adam was the son of god:

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

[Luke ; 3:38]

Would that mean Adam is exactly like Jesus and both are sons of god and consequently gods?

In Mark describing the leader who cried then died as being the son of god:

And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

[Mark ; 15:39]

Would that mean that this human also is like Jesus, i.e. another son of god?

However we see Luke talking about the same man but instead of describing him as son of god, Luke described him as Certainly this was a righteous man.


Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.

[Luke ; 23:47]

Would that mean during this age, the son of god really means a righteous man?

The issue is not really being a son of god, because for him to be able to morph between a human and a god as many Christian claim, it has to mean that he had god quality to be able to achieve that miracle of changing status between a human and a god, for them to say that he is not a god but a son of a god is an escape try to the dilemma they created for themselves when they first called Jesus the god himself, they needed to find a way out after they realized that He can't be god himself, otherwise god himself is dead, so they say: no Jesus is not god but his son, well let me tell all of you then, being a son of a god would that mean that we have another god beside the main god?

They won't be able to escape that argument, so the whole issue really is proving that he is another god not a mere son of a god, but none of the Bible human writers believed that Jesus was a God or carry any God quality:

None of the Bible's Writers Believed that Jesus is God

Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus, love him, and honour him. They are, however, divided over the question of his divinity. Fortunately, this difference can be resolved if we refer the question to both the Bible and the Quran, because, both the Bible and the Quran teach that Jesus is not God.

It is clear enough to everyone that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus, so we do not need to spend much time explaining that. On the other hand, many people misunderstand the Bible; they feel that the belief in Jesus as God is so widespread that it must have come from the Bible. The following evidences will show quite conclusively that the Bible does not teach that. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. In the Bible God is always someone other than Jesus.

Some will say that something Jesus said or something he did while on the earth proves that he is God. The evidences will show that the disciples never came to the conclusion that Jesus is God. And these are people who lived and walked with Jesus and thus knew first hand what he said and did. Furthermore, we are told in the Acts of the Apostles in the Bible that the disciples were being guided by the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is God, surely they should know it. But they did not. They kept worshipping the one true God who was worshipped by Abraham, Moses and Jesus:

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

(The Acts ; 3:13)

All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God:

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

(Mark ; 10:1Cool

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

(Matthew ; 19:17)

They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person as I explained earlier. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

(Matthew ; 23:9}

Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation:

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

(Colossians ; 1:15)

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(1Corinthians ; 8:6}

Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews, and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is therefore forever subservient to God:

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

(1 Corinthians ; 15:28}

Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God's first creature, some of what they wrote clearly show that Jesus was a pre-existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying:

The Father is greater than

(John ; 14:28}

And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

(1 Corinthians ; 11:3}

Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of God as they have already clearly said.

So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(John ; 17:3}

To be continued.....
AhmedBahgat

Hello All

I don't believe that Jesus was a god or a son of a god and as you can see I'm not using the Quran to prove it to myself, because simply the Christians don't believe in it, what I'm using is what they believe in, therefore they have to read carefully and try to prove my understanding wrong, let's look at the evidences from the Acts:

Evidence From Acts of the Apostles

Jesus performed many miraculous wonders, and he without doubt said a lot of wonderful things about himself. Some people use what he said and did as proof that he was God. But his original disciples who lived and walked with him, and were eyewitnesses to what he said and did, never reached this conclusion. The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Throughout this period they never refer to Jesus as God. They continually and consistently use the title God to refer to someone other than Jesus.

Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed the crowd saying:

Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited to you by God with miracles, wonders and signs which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know

(Acts 2:22)

It was God, therefore, who did the miracles through Jesus to convince people that Jesus was backed by God. Peter did not see the miracles as proof that Jesus is God.

In fact, the way Peter refers to God and to Jesus makes it clear that Jesus is not God. For he always turns the title God away from Jesus. Take the following references for example:

God has raised this Jesus . . .

(Acts 2:32)

God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ

(Acts 2:36)

In both passages, the title God is turned away from Jesus. Why? if Jesus is God.

To Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said:

God raised up his servant", where the title servant refers to Jesus

(Acts 3:26)

This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared:

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus

(Acts 3:13)

Peter must have known that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never spoke of a Triune God. They always spoke of Jehovah (i.e. Yahweh) as the only God. Here, as in Matthew Jesus is the servant of Yahweh:

Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.

(Matthew 12:1Cool

If Matthew and Peter are right, then Jesus is not Yahweh, but Yahweh's servant. This proves that Jesus is not God. The Old Testament repeatedly says that Yahweh is the only God :

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me

(Isaiah 45: 5)

If Yahweh is the name of a triune God, then Jesus is excluded from the Godhead since in that case he would be the servant of the triune God. If, on the other hand, Yahweh is the name of the Father only, then the Father alone is God (since Yahweh alone is God) and Jesus is therefore not God. Either way, Jesus is not God. Peter and Matthew were both right about this.

All of the disciples of Jesus held this view. In Acts we are told that the believers prayed to God saying:

And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is

(Acts 4:24)

And it is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, three verses later, they referred to Jesus as

For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed

(Acts 4:27)

If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God's Messiah. We are told in Acts:

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah

(Acts 5:41)

The Hebrew title Messiah (Christ in Greek) is a human title. It means Anointed, we see in Isaiah, Cyrus the Persian is called God's Messiah:

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

(Isaiah 45:1)

If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and messiah of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus?

Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared:

We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus . . .

(Acts 5:29-30)

Were they lacking the Holy Spirit? No! They were supported by the Holy Spirit:

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them

(Acts 2:3)


Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

(Acts 4:Cool


And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

(Acts 5:32)

They were simply teaching what they had learnt from Jesus that Jesus was not God but, rather, God's servant and Messiah.

The Quran on the other hand confirms that Jesus was the Messiah, and that he was God's servant

(And remember ) when the angels said : O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him , whose name is the Messiah , Jesus , son of Mary , illustrious in the world and the Hereafter , and one of those brought near ( unto Allah ) .

[The Quran ; 3:45]


He spake : Lo! I am the slave of Allah . He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet ,

[The Quran ; 19:30]

To be continued....
AhmedBahgat

Hello All

If Jesus is the son of a god then he must be all-knowing and all powerful:

Jesus is Not All-Powerful, and Not All-Knowing

Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, for he had some limitations. Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown:

5: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6: And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

[Mark ; 6:5-6]

Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time

22: And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23: And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24: And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25: After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
26: And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

[Mark ; 8:22-26]

Therefore, although we have the utmost love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God.

Mark also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge, Jesus declared as marked told us that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that

32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

[Mark ; 13:32]

Mathew told us the same as Mark:

36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

[Mathew ; 24:36]

Therefore he could not have been the all-knowing God.

Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell. But that complicates matters further. Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell. Instead, he said that he does not know. We must believe him. Jesus was a man of truth and he was not a liar.

The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom but God's knowledge and wisdom are always perfect:

52: And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

[Luke ; 2:52]

In Hebrews too we read that Jesus learned obedience:

8: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

[Hebrews ; 5:8]

But God does not learn new things. He knows everything always. If Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and he was not God. Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting:

2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

[Pslams ; 90:2]

Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. He said so Himself:

6: For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

[Malachi ; 3:6]


Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, Yahweh alone is God and Yahweh declares:

Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am Yahweh . . .

(Isaiah ch. 43: vv. 10-11}

Some will say that Jesus had two natures, that he was both man and God at the same time. They will say that the limitations we pointed out are limitations in the human nature of Jesus, but his God nature is still unlimited. Notice that the Bible never confirms that Jesus had these two natures. This is a desperate solution offered by those who do not wish to believe what the Bible plainly says. The plain teaching of the Bible, as we have shown, is that Jesus was not God.

This dual-nature solution complicates matters further still. Take for illustration the fig-tree episode in the Gospels:

12: And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14: And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
15: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
16: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
17: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
18: And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
19: And when even was come, he went out of the city.
20: And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21: And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
22: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
23: For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
24: Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
25: And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

[Mark ; 11:12-25]

Jesus was hungry then saw in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs

Jesus then put a curse on the tree, so that no one could eat fruit from it again. The tree withered from the roots by next morning.

Now, it is clear from this passage that Jesus had a lot of power to curse the tree and make it wither from its roots. It is also clear that Jesus' knowledge was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.

Proponents of the dual-nature theory will have to admit that the power to curse was in Jesus' God nature. They will have to also admit that his lack of knowledge was due to his human nature. They will have to then conclude that the God nature acted at the behest of the limited knowledge stemming from the human nature. But God does not act on ignorance. Surely He would know, as Mark knew, that it was not the season for figs, and that when fig season arrives that tree will provide fruit for God's creatures. Why would God curse a good tree which he created? Some would like to believe that the tree was barren and therefore deserved to be destroyed. But, if Mark was right, the reason the tree had no fruit according to Mark, because it was not the season for figs

These Bible references clearly show that Jesus was not the all-powerful, all-knowing God.

To be continued......
AhmedBahgat

Hello All

Some will say that this whole discussion over the divinity of Jesus is unnecessary. The important thing, they say, is to accept Jesus as your personal saviour. On the contrary, the Bible's writers stressed that, in order to be saved, it is necessary to understand who exactly is God.
Failure to understand this would be to violate the first and greatest of all the commandments in the Bible. This commandment was emphasized by Jesus, on whom be peace, when a teacher of the Law of Moses asked him as follows:

The Greatest Commandment in the Bible and the Quran


Of all the commandments, which is the most important?

[Mark 12:28]

Jesus replied:

The most important one is this: ˜Hear O Israel, Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one. Love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength ?

[Mark 12:29]

Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy, 6: 4-5. Jesus confirmed not only that this commandment is still valid, but also that it is the most important of all the commandments.

If Jesus thought that he himself is God, why did he not say so? Instead, he stressed that Yahweh alone is God. The man who questioned Jesus understood this, and what the man says next makes it is clear that God is not Jesus, for he said to Jesus:

Well said, teacher, you are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him . . .

[Mark 12:32]

Now if Jesus was God, he could have told the man so. Instead, he let the man refer to God as someone other than Jesus, and then he even confirmed that the man had spoken wisely

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

[Mark 12:34]

If Jesus knew that God is a trinity, why did he not say so? Why did he not say that God is one in three, or three in one? Instead, he declared that God is one ” full stop. True imitators of Jesus will imitate him also in this declaration of God's oneness. They will not add the word three where Jesus never said it.

Does salvation depend on this commandment? Yes, says the Bible! Jesus made this clear when another man approached Jesus to learn from him

17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

18"Why do you call me good?, Jesus answered; No one is good ”except God alone.
19You know the commandments: Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother."

20"Teacher, he declared, all these I have kept since I was a boy.

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. One thing you lack, he said. Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"

24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."

28Peter said to him, We have left everything to follow you!"

29"I tell you the truth, Jesus replied, no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields ”and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

[Mark 10:17-29]

The man fell on his knees and said to Jesus: Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus replied:

Why do you call me good? No one is good ” except God alone.

[Mark 12:19]

By so saying, Jesus made a clear distinction between himself and God. Then he proceeded with the answer to the man's question about how to get salvation. He said: If you want to enter life, obey the commandments [Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:19].

Remember that the most important of all the commandments, according to Jesus, is to know Yahweh as the only God.

Jesus further emphasized this in the Gospel According to John 17:1, Jesus lifted his eyes to heaven and prayed, addressing God as Father. Then in verse three, he said to the Father as follows:

And eternal life means knowing you, the only true God, and knowing Jesus Christ, whom you sent

[John 17:3]

This proves beyond doubt that if people are to get eternal life they must know that the one Jesus was praying to is the only true God, and they must know that Jesus was sent by the true God.

Some say that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. But Jesus said that the Father alone is the only true God. True followers of Jesus will follow him in this too. Jesus had said that his true followers are those who hold to his teachings. He said:

If you obey my teaching, you are really my disciples

[John 8:31]

His teaching is that people must continue to keep the commandments, especially the first commandment which emphasises that Yahweh alone is God, and that Yahweh should be loved with all our hearts and all our strengths. We love Jesus, but we must not love him as God. Today many love Jesus more than they love God. This is because they see God as a vengeful person who wanted to exact a penalty from them, and they see Jesus as the Saviour who rescued them from the wrath of God. Yet Yahweh is our only Saviour. He said so Himself:

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

[Isaiah 43:11]


21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

[Asaiah 45:21-22]

The Quran confirms the first commandment and addresses it to all humankind:

And your God is one God! there is no god but He; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[The Quran ; 2:163]

وَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ لاَّ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ الرَّحِيمُ (163)

[The Quran ; 2:163]

And God declares that true believers love Him more than anyone else or anything else

And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah's and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil).

[The Quran ; 2:165]

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَشَدُّ حُبًّا لِّلّهِ وَلَوْ يَرَى الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِذْ يَرَوْنَ الْعَذَابَ أَنَّ الْقُوَّةَ لِلّهِ جَمِيعاً وَأَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعَذَابِ (165)



To be continued ¦.
AhmedBahgat

Hello All

Paul Believed That Jesus is not God

Many people use Paul's writings as proof that Jesus is God. But this is not fair to Paul, because Paul clearly believed that Jesus is not God.

In his first letter to Timothy, Paul wrote:

I charge you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, to keep these instructions . . ."

(1 Timothy 5:21)

It is clear from this that the title God applies not to Christ Jesus, but to someone else. In the following chapter, he again differentiates between God and Jesus when he says:

I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"

(1 Timothy 6:13)

Paul then went on to speak of

14 the That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

(1 Timothy 6:14-15

Again, the title God is deliberately turned away from Jesus.

Incidentally, many people think that when Jesus is called Lord in the Bible that means God . But in the Bible this title means master or teacher, and it can be used for addressing humans :

Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. "

(1 Peter 3:6)

What is more important, however, it to notice what Paul says next, for this will demolish any supposition that Paul took Jesus for God. What he says about God in the following passage clearly shows that Jesus is not God. Paul says:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. "

(1 Timothy 6:15-16)

Paul says that God alone is immortal. Immortal means he does not die. Check any dictionary. Now, anyone who believes that Jesus died cannot believe that Jesus is God. Such a belief would contradict what Paul said here. Furthermore, to say that God died is a blasphemy against God.

Who would run the world if God died? Paul believed that God does not die.

Paul also said in that passage that God dwells in unapproachable light ” that no one has seen God or can see him. Paul knew that many thousands of people had seen Jesus. Yet Paul can say that no one has seen God because Paul was sure that Jesus is not God.

This is why Paul went about teaching not that Jesus was God, but that he was God's Messiah

But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.

(Acts 9:22)


And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ."

(Acts 18:5)

When he was in Athens, Paul spoke of God as:

24: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25: Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26: And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27: That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29: Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30: And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

(Acts 17:24-31)

See, the God who made the world and everything in it, then he identified Jesus as the man whom God appointed

Clearly, for Paul, Jesus was not God, and he would be shocked to see his writings used for proving the opposite of what he believed.

Paul even testified in court saying:

I admit that I worship the God of our fathers . . . "

(Acts 24:14)

And Jesus is the Servant of that God, for we read in Acts:

The God of our fathers has glorified his servant Jesus

(Acts 3:13)

For Paul, the Father alone is God. Paul said that there is:

one God and Father of all

(Ephesians 4:6)

Paul said again,

For us there is but one God, the Father . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ

(1 Corinthians 8:6)

Paul's letter to the Philippians 2:6-11 is often quoted as proof that Jesus is God. But the very passage shows that Jesus is not God. This passage has to agree with Isaiah:

22: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23: I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24: Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

(Isaiah 45:22-24)

God (Yahweh) said that every knee should bow to Yahweh, and every tongue should confess that righteousness and strength are in Yahweh alone. Paul was aware of this passage, for he quoted it:

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

(Romans 14:11)

Knowing this, Paul declared:

I kneel before the Father

(Ephesians 3:14)

The letter to the Hebrews says that the angels of God should worship the Son:

5: For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6: And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

(Hebrews 1:5-6)

But this passage depends on Deuteronomy in the Septuagint version of the Old Testament. This phrase cannot be found in the Old Testament used by Christians today, and the Septuagint version is no longer considered valid by Christians. However, even the Septuagint version, does not say worship the Son. It says let the Angels of God worship God (Yahweh).

The Bible insists that Yahweh alone is to be worshipped. In Deuteronomy, we read,

Worship Yahweh your God and serve him only.

(Deuteronomy 6:16)

Jesus, on whom be peace, believed in this, for he also stressed it in Luke. And Jesus too fell on his face and worshipped God:

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(Luke 4:Cool


And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

(Matthew 26:39)

Paul knew that Jesus worshipped God

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;"

(Hebrews 5:7)

and Paul taught that Jesus will remain forever subservient to God

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. "

(1 Corinthians 15:2Cool

See, when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him

To be continued...
AhmedBahgat

Hello All,

Evidences from the Fourth Gospel

The Gospel of John was completed to its present form some seventy years after Jesus was raised up to heaven. This Gospel in its final form says one more thing about Jesus that was unknown from the previous three Gospels that Jesus was the Word of God. John means that Jesus was God's agent through whom God created everything else. This is often misunderstood to mean that Jesus was God Himself. But John was saying, as Paul had already said, that Jesus was God's first creature. In the Book of Revelation in the Bible, we find that Jesus is,

the beginning of God's creation

(Revelation 3:14)


But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him

(1 Corinthians 8:6)


Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

(Colossians 1:15)

Anyone who says that the Word of God is a person distinct from God must also admit that the Word was created, for the Word speaks in the Bible saying:

Yahweh created me

(Proverbs 8:22)

This Gospel, nevertheless, clearly teaches that Jesus is not God. If it did not continue this teaching, then it would contradict the other three Gospels and also the letters of Paul from which it is clearly established that Jesus is not God.

We find here that Jesus was not co-equal with the Father, for Jesus said:

The Father is greater than I

(John 14:2Cool

People forget this and they say that Jesus is equal to the Father. Whom should we believe Jesus or the people?

Muslims and Christians agree that God is self-existent. That means that He does not derive his existence from anyone. Yet John tells us that Jesus' existence is caused by the Father. Jesus says in this Gospel:

I live because of the Father

(John 6:57)

John tells us that Jesus did not have any authority of his own when he quotes Jesus as saying:

I can do nothing of my own authority

(John 5:30)

This agrees with what we learn about Jesus from the other Gospels. In Mark, for example, we learn that Jesus performed miracles by a power which was not within his control. This is especially clear from an episode in which a woman is healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak; and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him. Mark describes Jesus's actions thus:

At once Jesus realised that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked: Who touched my clothes?

(Mark 5:30)

How the god could not know that? : Who touched my clothes?

His disciples could not provide a satisfactory answer, so Mark tells us:

Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it

(Mark 5:32)

This shows that the power that healed the woman was not within Jesus's control. He knew that the power had gone out of him, but he did not know where it went. Some other intelligent being had to guide that power to the woman who needed to be healed. God was that intelligent being. It is no wonder, then, that in Acts of the Apostles we read that it was God who did the miracles through Jesus

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:"

(Acts 2:22)

See: ; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you,

God did extraordinary miracles through others too, but that does not make the others God

And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

(Acts 19:11)

Why, then, is Jesus taken for God?

Even when Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, he had to ask God to do it. Lazarus' sister, Martha, knew this, for she said to Jesus:

I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask

(John 11:22)

Martha knew that Jesus was not God, and John who reported this with approval knew it also.
Jesus had a God, for when he was about to ascend to heaven, he said:

I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

(John 20:17)

John was sure that no one had seen God, although he knew that many people had seen Jesus:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(John 1:1Cool


No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

(1 John 4:12)

In fact Jesus himself told the crowds, that they have never seen the Father, nor have they heard the Father's voice

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

(John 5:37)

Notice that if Jesus was the Father, his statement here would be false.

Who is the only God in John's Gospel? The Father only. Jesus testified to this when he declared that the God of the Jews is the Father:

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: "

(John 8:54)

And the God of the Jews is no other than Yahweh who declared that he is the only God. Jesus too confirmed that the Father alone is the only true God:

1: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

(John 17:1-3)

And Jesus said to his enemies:

You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God

(John 8:40)

According to John, therefore, Jesus was not God, and nothing John wrote should be taken as proof that he was unless one wishes to disagree with John.

To be continued….
AhmedBahgat

Hello All,

Jesus and the Father are two Separate Beings

Many people use certain verses of the Bible as proof that Jesus is God. However, all of these verses, when understood in context, prove the opposite!

For example, Jesus said to a certain man:

Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.

(Matthew 9:2)

Because of this, some say that Jesus must be God since only God can forgive sins. However, if you are willing to read just a few verses further, you will find that the people:

praised God, who had given such authority to men

(Matthew 9:Cool

This shows that the people knew, and Matthew agrees, that Jesus is not the only man to receive such authority from God. Jesus himself emphasized that he does not speak on his own authority:

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

(John 14:10)

Jesus did or spoke nothing on his own authority, but he spoke only what the Father has taught him:

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

(John 8:2Cool

What Jesus did here was as follows. Jesus announced to the man the knowledge Jesus received from God that God had forgiven the man. Notice that Jesus did not say, I forgive your sins, but rather, Your sins are forgiven, implying, as this would to his Jewish listeners, that God had forgiven the man. Jesus, then, did not have the power to forgive sins, and in that very episode he called himself the Son of Man

But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house

(Matthew 9:6)

Another passage in John' Gospel is often used as proof that Jesus is God because Jesus said,

I and my Father are one.

(John 10:30)

But, if you read the next six verses, you will find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God. What Jesus obviously means here is that he is one with the Father in purpose:

31: Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32: Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33: The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34: Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36: Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

(John 10:31-36)

Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. Obviously, he was not praying that all his disciples should somehow merge into one individual

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

(John 17:11)


And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

(John 17:22)

And when Luke reports that the disciples were all one, Luke does not mean that they became one single human being, but that they shared a common purpose although they were separate beings:

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

(Acts 4:32)

In terms of essence, Jesus and the Father are two, for Jesus said they are two witnesses

14: Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
15: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
16: And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17: It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18: I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

(John 8:14-1Cool

They have to be two, since one is greater than the other:

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I..

(John 14:2Cool

When Jesus prayed to be saved from the cross, he said:

Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done

(Luke 22:42)

This shows that they had two separate wills, although Jesus submitted his will to the will of the Father. Two wills mean two separate individuals.

Furthermore, Jesus is reported to have said,

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

(Matthew 27:46)

If one of them forsook the other, then they must be two separate entities.

Again, Jesus is reported to have said:

Father, into your hands I commit my spirit

(Luke 23:46)

If the spirit of one can be placed into the hands of another, they must be two separate beings.
In all of these instances, Jesus is clearly subordinate to the Father. When Jesus knelt down and prayed he obviously was not praying to himself:

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

(Luke 22:41)

He was praying to his God.

Throughout the New Testament, the Father alone is called God. In fact, the titles Father and God are used to designate one individual, not three, and never Jesus. This is also clear from the fact that Matthew substituted the title Father in the place of the title God in at least two places in his Gospel:

Here is two examples to compare two verses from different Gospels together :

First example:

Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

(Matthew 10:29)


Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?

(Luke 12:6)

Second example:

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

(Matthew 12:50)


For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

(Mark 3:35)

If Matthew is right in doing so, then the Father alone is God.

Was Jesus the Father? No! Because Jesus said, :

Do not call anyone on earth father', for you have one father, and he is in heaven

(Matthew 23:9)

Since Jesus was standing on the earth when he said this, he is not the Father.

The Quran seeks to bring people back to the true faith that was taught by Jesus, and by his true disciples who continued in his teaching. That teaching emphasized a continued commitment to the first commandment that Yahweh alone is God. Yahweh, the only true God, is called Father in the New Testament, and Allah in the Quran. In the Quran, Allah directs His servants to call readers of the Bible back to that true faith. God says:

Say: O people of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords beside Allah.

[The Quran ; 3:64]



To be continued....
AhmedBahgat

Hello All

Jesus Christ teaching is quit substantial, but his short life and the immaturity of his people prevented him from completing the mission on which he had been sent into the world. It is also possible that his mission was by necessity of a limited nature according to our God plan, to pave the way for what was to come. Under either circumstances Jesus had to confess:

I had many things to say to you, but you can not bear them now bear them now. When the Spirit comes, he will guide you into the truth


The Gospel according to John reports the following part of speech which Jesus made to his disciples during the Last Supper.:

(5) But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 'Where are you going?'

(6) But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts.

(7) But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

(Cool And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation:

(9) sin, because they do not believe in me;

(10) righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;

(11) condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

(12) "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

(13) But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

(14) He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

(15) Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

[John ; 16:5-15]

By this Jesus is informing his disciples that he is about to leave the world, that he has not accomplished his mission, and another will come after him to teach the whole truth. That other one is called by various names according to the various versions of the Bible. The RSV calls him Counselor. King James version calls him Comforter. Whatever the title, the Counselor was described by Jesus as the person who:

A) Would come after him
B) Would convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgement
C) Would guide mankind into all the truth
D) Would not speak on his own authority, but whatever he would hear he would speak
E) Would prophecy
F) Would glorify Jesus Christ

Let's examine this prophecy of Jesus as reported by John's Gospel without any preconceived notions, and with perfect objectivity.

Many Christians with minds fully indoctrinated by Church authorities take it for granted that the prophecy refers to the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, and the third person of the ever blessed incomprehensible Trinity.
This belief is strengthened by the parenthetical insertion of the title the Holy Spirit after Counselor in John 14:25. With the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying as the editors of the RSV Bible admit, it is easy to imagine the interpolation of such title as the Holy Spirit, either as an explanation believed by the original writer, or by any of the numerous manuscript copyist down the centuries as likely intention of Christ. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is one that is believed to have filled the disciples of Jesus and after them the Church authorities, generation after generation until today. What the Church does and says is claimed to be through the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as prophesied by Jesus in the above quoted passage from John's Gospel

Since Christianity is divided into countless contradictory Churches or sects, it is difficult to see which one of them is the Holy Spirit working. Every one of these Churches claims that it alone is the true inheritor of the church alleged to have been established by Christ when he called Peter The rock on which he built his Church:. Each Church has fundamental differences with other Churches. Even within the same church, say the Roman Catholic Church, the best organized and most monolithic of them all, we find different and contradictory doctrines an commandments issuing at different periods. Men and women who at one historic period have been excommunicated, condemned and even burnt at the stake, have by the same infallible Holy church been not only reinstated, but also canonized as saints, at other historic periods. The history of Christendom is full of such examples. And all this time we are to believe that the Holy Spirit, who according to Church teaching is God who never errs, is guiding all these conflicting men who issue conflicting doctrines and rulings through the centuries.

The Counselor, Jesus said, would speak on God's authority and not on his own, That statement alone is enough to demolish the theory that the prophecy refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, according to the Christian teaching is God. He could not only be said to be speaking on an authority not his own. This could only be said of mortal man, a man inspired, a prophet. That man would bring clear teachings as to sin, righteousness and judgment. His teachings must be clear and precise, and should be on a permanent record which is not subject to interpolation or change, so that all differences that might arise down the centuries could be resolved by reference to that impeccable record.

Finally, Jesus said, the Counselor would glorify him. Since the departure of Christ from mortal life, it is a historical fact that no one has appeared in any part of the globe who so closely fits expect the Prophet Mohammad. It is he who has claimed, and indeed has achieved, the completion of the mission of Jesus and all previous prophets. The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him The most successful of all prophets. It is he who has convinced the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. It is he who has guided us into all the truth for he is the Spirit of the Truth. Indeed even as a youth before he became aware of his future mission he was known by his fellow citizens of pagan Mecca as Al-Amin, i.e. the Truthful. As an elderly man of over sixty, three months before his death, having completed his God-given task he told the assembled multitude, now all Muslims, quoting Allah's words (for he spoke not on his own authority):


This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[The Quran ; 5:3]

...الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلاَمَ دِينًا فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِفٍ لِّإِثْمٍ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ


Having guided the whole world into all the truth he recited Allah's own words:


And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.

[The Quran ; 17:81]

وَقُلْ جَاء الْحَقُّ وَزَهَقَ الْبَاطِلُ إِنَّ الْبَاطِلَ كَانَ زَهُوقًا (81)


Jesus said that he had not said all that he wanted to say, but that he that was to come would do so and complete the work. The teachings of Mohammad on sin, on righteousness and on Judgment are embodied in the Quran, a book that is unique in the world in its purity, lack of contradictions and in its inimitability. Since its revelation to the illiterate Mohammad 1425 years ago not one word has changed, and it will not change, by the grace of Allah who is guarding it from the human corruption till the day of Judgment.

Sir William Muir, a well-known critic of Islam, wrote in his book The Life of Mohamet:
There is probably in the world no other book which has remained twelve centuries with so pure a text


and since Sir William Muir, wrote this another 225 years have rolled by and the truth has remained unchanged and pure as it was from day one of its complete revelation.

With regard to the Bible, however, there is not and can not be consistency, for the Bible is not one book but a collection of many books some Christians prefers specific gospels to the others, the Bible also written by numerous writers, many of whom are not even known. There is even disagreement among Christian Churches as to the books which are accepted as canonical i.e. authorized by church elders as to have been inspired, not revealed as the Quran was. The writing even in a single book may be contradictory, as noted in the conversion of Paul as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles.

Hugh Schonfield wrote in his book Those Incredible Christian:

Within the covers of the Bile we can meet with forgeries, manipulations and deliberate inventions just as much as outside it. Scholarship is well aware of this; but when a biblical work, especially in the New Testament, is evidently not by the person claiming to be the author everything is done to avoid using the word forgery. The same is true of the sayings attributed to Jesus and known not to be genuine. We speak of such books as someone of the Pauline or Petrine school thought, of changed or invented sayings as secondary'. If we did not employ evasions it would appear that the Holy Spirit was an accessory of fraud.

It is on record, however, that down to the final determination of the canon of Scripture some of the books which are in the Bible were disputed. It was argued by quite orthodox Christians of the early centuries that certain books were not genuine productions of the apostolic authors by whom they purported to have been written. Occasionally the forger's name was suggested. Paul mentions that in his own lifetime false letters in his name were in circulation. What had to be suited was what deemed to be the interests of the Church. Considerations having nothing to do with truthfulness were at work in the slant given to compositions and in the sentiments contrary to their own attitudes which various persons of note were made to express. All this kind of thing was a commonplace of the propaganda of antiquity, and what we have to appreciate is that it was a commonplace for the early Christians as well. This was the way the game of promotion and indoctrination was played. For those without scruples, who believe that ends justify means, it is so still


The original or the books of the Bible are absent and unknown, hence the numerous versions. Admittedly the books as at present available are the works of ordinary human writers. However, some words or a divine origin may be discernible. But so mixed are these and so much interpolation has taken place that it is now almost impossible to tell the divine from the human. You cannot tell with any degree of probability which is the word of God and which is the word of a mere human who had a particular school to uphold or a particular axe to grind. Not so the Quran. Every word is Allah's own. It is a direct speech as revealed, not just inspired, to the Prophet, and exactly as the prophet recited it straight away and faithfully scribes put down immediately and plenty others memorized it.

A Christian Dr. John B. Taylor, Reader in Islamic Studies in the Selly Oak Collages, Birmingham writes in his book Thinking About Islam:

We have established that Muslims do not speak of Mohammad's writing that Quran, but of his receiving and reciting it. Just as Mohammad himself was conscious of the very special character of the Quranic text, so those Muslims after him took pains t preserve with complete accuracy all the fragments of the Quran. Only two years after Mohammad's death, with the further loss in battle of those who had already memorized the Quran, the various fragments were collected.

A few years later, in the reign of Uthman, the Third caliph, a final check was made on the text of the Quran. We can tell how careful and scrupulous the early Muslims were by the fact that even variations in pronunciations from one part from the Muslim world to another were disapproved of in the context of reciting the Quran; and so the official text was established in accordance with the dialect of Mecca, and most other versions were destroyed by command of Uthman. Thus we can feel confident the test which was established within a few years of the prophet death


Those are the view of the Christian critic of Islam. The Quran is the unsullied word of Allah. That is what Jesus meant when he said of him who was to come:

He will not speak on his authority, but whatever he hears he will speak.


Jesus was insulted not only by his avowed enemies, the Jews, but also unwittingly by those who considered themselves his followers. The Jews accused him of being a child born out of wedlock, and a charlatan. To prove that he was accursed they endeavored to cause his death by crucifixion, a mode of execution considered by them to be damnatory to the soul of the victim. Please see Deuteronomy 21.22.23. They denied that he was their Messiah.

The Christian in their part, in their over zeal, and deluded by subtle wolves in shee's clothing, swallowed the teachings of Mithraism, Greek mythology and other contemporary Mediterranean cults, and placed Jesus on the pedestal of a pagan god. Jesus who was the son of man, Ben Adam, as he was fond of calling himself, a Prophet and a servant of God, was debased into a pseudo polytheistic god, and became surrounded with legends of propitiation by blood, legends which were current at the time within the cults of Osiris, Attis Adonis and Mithra. There was nothing new in a god begetting a son. There was nothing new in a holy trinity. There was nothing new in the salvation by blood. All these doctrines were prevalent in the pagan cults in the eastern Mediterranean region before the coming of Jesus Christ and during his lifetime. What was new, strange and revolting was to graft these myths on the very man who came to abolish them.

To be continued...
AhmedBahgat

Hello All,

Death on the cross

It was prophet Mohammad who came and glorified Jesus. He countered the accusations of the Jews, and tore down the pagan trappings with which Jesus was no more illegitimate than Adam, His mother Mary, whom the Jews castigated as a prostitute was given a place of greater honor in the Quran than the Christian Bible. To a people who believed in the creation of Adam with neither father nor mother why should it be difficult to believe in the creation of Jesus without a father?

God is able from these stones to raise up the children of Abraham

[Mathew ; 3:9]

To the hostile Jews Mohammad confirmed that Jesus was the Christ foretold in the Jews own scripture. He taught that the Jews were speaking an untruth when they claimed to have inflicted an ignoble death on Jesus by hanging him on a cross:

(157) That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

(158) Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

(159) And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-

[The Quran ; 4:157-159]

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (157)
بَل رَّفَعَهُ اللّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا (158)
وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا (159)



And to the Christians, a waring which is a mercy for them, was revealed to stop their excesses in their religion:

(171) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

(172) Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).

[The Quran ; 4:171-172]

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً (171)
لَّن يَسْتَنكِفَ الْمَسِيحُ أَن يَكُونَ عَبْداً لِّلّهِ وَلاَ الْمَلآئِكَةُ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ وَمَن يَسْتَنكِفْ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيَسْتَكْبِرْ فَسَيَحْشُرُهُمْ إِلَيهِ جَمِيعًا (172)


Modern Biblical research proves this Quranic truth. It is known that there are other Gospels which have different versions of Christ's passion from that narrated in the four canonical Gospels. The other Gospels were not approved officially by the Church when the Bible was compiles towards the end of the second century. Lately new light has been cast on the beliefs of the early Christians by the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, These early Christians knows as Nasoreans or Nazarenes (which tallies with the Quranic name for the follower of Jesus : Nassara ) were predominant to start with.. The Nazarenes who claimed descent from Jesus's first disciples came into conflict with Pauline Christians (who follow Paul) and were driven out of Palestine into Syria around 62 AD. The Nazarenes regarded Jesus as a great prophet and righteous man. They accused Paul of heretically substituting Roman customs for the authentic teachings of Jesus and proclaiming him to be God. They refused to celebrate Christmas which they regarded as a pagan feast.

The version of Christ's Passion contained in the manuscript is that Judas tricked the Jews by substituting another man in place of Jesus. This other man vehemently denied before Herod and Pilate the charge that he claimed to be the Messiah (Christ). According to this version is was Herod, and not Pilat, who took a basin of water and washed his hands of the accused man's blood to show that he did not find any guilt in him. Then Herod locked up the supposed Jesus for the night; but the next morning he was seized upon by the Jesus who tortured him and ultimately crucified him.

This version of the story of crucifixion makes the pathetic lamentations attributed by canonical Gospels to Jesus on the cross more sensible. For an ordinary unknown man to behave in such a way is excusable. But for the man of God to declare at the time of trial, or even for a leader of a people with guts in him, to cry out aloud in front of a crowd:

My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?


is to set the least below dignity of a leader.

If the crucified man was Jesus, and if Jesus was God who knew that He had come down to earth in order to be crucified for the sins of humanity, the absurdity would be shattering.

Upton Sinclair wrote in his book A Personal Jesus:

You perceive that those who tell the story cannot make up their mind whether Jesus is God or whether he is man. Truly it is a difficult problem, once you admit such thing as a possibility that God may take on form of a man and come down to earth. When he becomes man, is He man or is He still God? And how can He be betrayed, when He knows He is going to be betrayed? The legend never answers clearly for basically it is an absurdity and there can be no answer, nor even any rational thought on such subject.

If Jesus is God, He knows everything in advance. But in that case the procedure means nothing to Him, He is like an actor going through a role, and it must have been a rather tedious role to Omniscience. Is He doing it for the entertainment of children? If so, why not encourage the children to grow up mentally and face the truth? On the other hand, if he is a man and has the mind of a man, then he no longer knows the truth, he no longer posses the comfort of omniscience. The legend requires that we shall believe both these things at the same time; but manifestly, a man cannot know something and at the same time grop half-blindly as we human beings are doing all through our lives.


The riddle which perplexes honest intelligent readers of the Gospels like Upton Sinclair is resolved by the Nasorean version of the story of crucifixion. By that version Jesus is absolved from cowardice, fickleness and shallowness of faith in God as shamefully and cowardly demonstrated by the crucified man. The fickleness and detection of the disciples as reported in the Gospels also fall into position if we take it that the crucified man was not their Messiah. The disciples are therefore cleared from the charges of cowardice, treachery, falsehood and lack of faith in their leader at the most critical time. The man they sold, denied or doubted was truly unknown to them. He was not their Master.

The apocryphal (hidden Gospel of Barnabas reports that it was Judas who was crucified in the place of Jesus, and the Basildon sect of the early Christians believed that it was Simon the Cyrene who was crucified, not Jesus. According to all three synoptic Gospels it was this man who made to carry the cross for Jesus. Only John makes Jesus carry his cross. This is a significant point.

Other scholars basing their research on the canonical Gospels have different versions of the crucifixion. One such is Biblical scholar Dr. Hugh Scohnfield. who has forwarded his findings in his highly controversial book The Passover Plot. He maintains that it was Jesus who was nailed on the cross, but that he did not die there; he only appeared dead by taking a drug which is described in Matthew's Gospel as vinegar.

To be continued....
AhmedBahgat

Hello All,

They killed him not

It is a fact that any careful impartial reader of the four Gospels which are in the Bible will derive strong evidence to show that the man who was put on the cross did not die on the cross, but only appeared to have died. In those same Gospels there is also overwhelming evidence, in spite of the writers' own belief to the contrary, that it was possible and indeed likely, and that the crucified man was not Jesus Christ at all.

It is a fact that Jesus was not a well-known person a time in Jerusalem. To the people who were hunting for him he was a stranger, a rustic from Galilee. He had been preaching his faith for only two or three years, wandering from place to place with no fixed abode:

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

[Matthew 8:20]

During that time he could not have visited Jerusalem more than a few times. The earliest Gospel, Mark, says he had been there only once, while the latest, John, says four times. So little known was he that it is related Judas had to point out to his would – be captors by pretending to kiss him. Thus it would be nothing unusual if they mistook somebody else for Jesus. The Gospels tell us that when he was arrested all his disciples left him alone and ran away. Even his closest disciple, Peter, denied any knowledge of him, saying:

I do not know this man.

[Matthew 26:74]

It is difficult to believe that among all his disciples who he himself had especially selected with due care; there could not have been a single one who even acknowledge that he knew him. To say that this was in fulfillment of a prophecy s to bow to faith, and to stretch reason to breaking point.

Moreover the answers that the accused gave in court during cross examination were not such as to indicate that he was Jesus Christ. At best the accused prevaricated. All the three synoptic Gospels describing the court scene failed to produce one piece of evidence which would prove the identity of the accused. Luke says that when he was ordered: If you are the Christ, tell us, his answer was merely: If tell you, you will not believe; and if I ask you, you will not answer. When he was asked a point blank question: Are you the Son of God? he retorted: You say that I am.

Matthew reports:

and the high priest stood up and said, ‘Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you.' But Jesus was silent. And the high priest stood up and said, ‘I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.' Jesus said to him, ‘You have said so. But I tell you hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.'

[Matthew 26.62-64]

Mind you, these narratives even in their original form were written decades after the events, and are related by men who sincerely believe that it was Jesus Christ who was crucified, and yet even they have produced the evidence of only one man, Judas, a shady informer; and that evidence was not given under oath in open court, but merely by implication, a kiss purported to indicated Jesus Christ from among a crowed to frenzied mob of fanatics.

When we take into serious consideration this reasoning, together with previously related versions narrated by the Gospels other than those included in the Bible and the ancient manuscripts recently discovered which tell of early Christian beliefs that Jesus was not crucified the truth of the Quran becomes crystal clear.

But they killed him not, nor crucified him but so it was made to apprear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For a surety they killed him not.

[The Quran ; 4.157]

And the Quran was revealed to an unlettered man fourteen centuries ago. Modern Western scholars now accept the Quranic version of the story of Jesus.

Despite the corruption of the Christian Bible, it still exposes their lies against Jesus and His God, and if they don't repent and stop calling jesus a god, Hell will be waiting for them
Raza

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
anna wrote:
The blatant fact that “allah” is not alone is confirmed elsewhere in your book of faith, as demonstrated in this grouping…

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

Occurrences of “laqawlun” in the Koran: 3
Locations: 69.40, 81.19, 86.13



Hello all

Let me expose the gang of deceit led by conman chicken lie, conwoman anna and their ignorant assliker brainout

I only need to reply to one error to expose them and that should be enough to send all of them to the filtheist rubbish bin on earth:

See above how the conwoman anna translated 81:19

such a deceitful woman she is man, I can't believe how ignornat, deceitful, filthy and low most of the kafirs in here

let me now expose the conwoman anna as I did with her gang master chicken lie 2 years ago on free-minds.org and 1


AhmedBahgat, please don't take as offensive but you could get the same message across without swearing at your opponent.

Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4890
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

A man cursed the wind. The narrator Muslim's version has: The wind snatched away a man's cloak during the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and he cursed it. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not curse it, for it is under command, and if anyone curses a thing undeservedly, the curse returns upon him.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

cooolway wrote:
AhmedBahgat, please don't take as offensive but you could get the same message across without swearing at your opponent.


I'm sorry, I'm not dealing with opponent, I'm dealing with clear cut enemy of Allah, who say lies against Him and manipulate His words

I will continue treating them the exact same

no retreat no surrnder and Allah is more than enough to punish me for that


cooolway wrote:

Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4890
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

A man cursed the wind. The narrator Muslim's version has: The wind snatched away a man's cloak during the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and he cursed it. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not curse it, for it is under command, and if anyone curses a thing undeservedly, the curse returns upon him.


I'm sorry, I don't accept any hadith to be presented on a debate ot a discussion table, this is because all hadith are nothing but hearsay and conjectures which i consider inadmissable evidences, that does not mean that i reject all hadith btw

in my next comment I will prove to you how the Quran supports my hostility towards the enemy of Allah

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam All

This is a very important subject indeed; I have deep thought about it today again as I always deeply thought about it for the last 5 years and concluded that those who spew BS about this great prophet and the religion sent with him are not really targeting him, because he is deed over a thousand years ago.

They are cowards because they hide their true and sick intentions towards all Muslims who chose to submit to Allah and follow the final guidance sent before the JD, indeed they don’t have the balls to be honest and say, YES WE ARE TARGETTING THE MUSLIMS.

Many Muslims and non Muslims wondered, why I use this tough language in public with the enemy?, why I use such vulgar language to insult them publicly without any shame going through my mind?, some of them also accused me that what I do is not Islamic, laughably it is said by the very same who defame the religion, I guess from their perspective acting in a non Islamic manner IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT, as if they know what Islam is all about hence they claim my actions are not Islamic.

Those who suggested the above about my actions are missing a very important. There is no doubt that they can’t be targeting Mohammad because he is dead as I said before, I’m repeating it because many overlooked this simple fact that is a reality, Therefore targeting me and my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters is enough reason for me to do what I do and even if I will die doing what I do to fight those who want to fight me on the account of my religion, they are the enemy who are targeting my religion, my children, my grand children and any existing Muslim or new Muslim comers to come.

The Quran is clear regrading those who fight us on the account of our religion:

8- Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

9- Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

[The Quran ; 60:8-9]

لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ (Cool
إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَى إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ (9)

-> See, ” Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly”

-> On the other hand :” Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust”

-> There is no doubt that those cowards who attack our religion “i.e. attacking the Muslims” online, are falling under :”Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion”, the war here does not have to be a conventional war rather it can be any type of war including a verbal war using a weapon called the Internet

I totally agree that Allah does not like us to say hurtful speech in public, but Allah exempted those who has been treated unjustly:

Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

[The Quran ; 4:148]

لاَّ يُحِبُّ اللّهُ الْجَهْرَ بِالسُّوَءِ مِنَ الْقَوْلِ إِلاَّ مَن ظُلِمَ وَكَانَ اللّهُ سَمِيعًا عَلِيمًا (148)

-> See, :” Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech”, but He exempted those who were treated unfairly :” unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done;”.

Now if you agree on the followings:

1) The enemies on cyber world attack my religion and lie about it (publicly)
2) The enemies on cyber world attack Mohammad and defame him (publicly)
3) The enemies on cyber world attack me and defame me (publicly) because I stepped trying to defend the above two

What bloody more unjust that a person have to go through more than the above so 4:148 can be activated?

Please bear in mind that 4:148 apply to any injustice a person will go through, religiously or non religiously and I mean by religiously that it is related to the religion, they are being unjust to me based on the account t of my religion, indeed Allah always advised us to forgive others who hurt us but that (mostly if not all) apply to the non religious matters, however regarding the injustice that is based on the account of the religion, Allah is very clear and want us to fight those who attack us because we believed in Him, this is how we prove to Him that we believed in Him, this how to help the other peaceful infidels who might listen to His warning and yet to make up the most important decision a human can make in life which is to believe in Allah.

Indeed Allah told us just that, that we can’t show weakness to our enemies while we have the upper hand, our upper hand is that we believed, hence Allah will support us in our struggle against the enemy of Allah and humanity:

And be not infirm, and be not grieving, and you have the upper hand if you are believers.

[The Quran ; 3:139]

وَلاَ تَهِنُوا وَلاَ تَحْزَنُوا وَأَنتُمُ الأَعْلَوْنَ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ (139)

-> See, ” And be not infirm, and be not grieving, and you have the upper hand”, why we the believers have the upper hand?, because :” if you are believers”, indeed the God we believed in MUST support us, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, we should not fear them but fear God alone, we should not call to peace unless they stop their internet war against us:

Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.

[The Quran ; 47:35]

فَلَا تَهِنُوا وَتَدْعُوا إِلَى السَّلْمِ وَأَنتُمُ الْأَعْلَوْنَ وَاللَّهُ مَعَكُمْ وَلَن يَتِرَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ (35)

-> See:” Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace”, and again, we were told that we have the upper hand :” when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you”, and when we fight our enemies without showing any weakness then Allah :” will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.”, our good deeds will be stopping those who want His message to die from propagating to others

Allah is seeing and knowing why an utterance of hurtful speech was publicly said, Allahaid in the same very 4:148 posted above ” وَكَانَ اللّهُ سَمِيعًا عَلِيمًا”, i.e. ” and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.”

Salam
Raza

Your Translation:
Ahmed Bahgat
"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust."
Quran 60:8-9

Their Translation:
Muhsin Khan:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.
It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah)."
Quran 60:8-9

Yusuf Ali:
"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."
Quran 60:8-9

Pickthal:
"Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong-doers."
Quran 60:8-9


How come your translation is different? None of them used the word "respect" They all said to not befriend them.
All_Brains

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

cooolway wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
anna wrote:
The blatant fact that “allah” is not alone is confirmed elsewhere in your book of faith, as demonstrated in this grouping…

إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ

Innahu laqawlu rasoolin kareemin

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy message.

Occurrences of “laqawlun” in the Koran: 3
Locations: 69.40, 81.19, 86.13



Hello all

Let me expose the gang of deceit led by conman chicken lie, conwoman anna and their ignorant assliker brainout

I only need to reply to one error to expose them and that should be enough to send all of them to the filtheist rubbish bin on earth:

See above how the conwoman anna translated 81:19

such a deceitful woman she is man, I can't believe how ignornat, deceitful, filthy and low most of the kafirs in here

let me now expose the conwoman anna as I did with her gang master chicken lie 2 years ago on free-minds.org and 1


AhmedBahgat, please don't take as offensive but you could get the same message across without swearing at your opponent.

Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4890
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

A man cursed the wind. The narrator Muslim's version has: The wind snatched away a man's cloak during the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and he cursed it. The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not curse it, for it is under command, and if anyone curses a thing undeservedly, the curse returns upon him.


Thanks Raza, but I believe no one takes offense of what Ahmed says. At least he's sincere and reflects true Islam values.

Let the readers make their own judgment and you can choose the method you like yourself.
AhmedBahgat

cooolway wrote:
Your Translation:
Ahmed Bahgat
"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust."
Quran 60:8-9

Their Translation:
Muhsin Khan:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.
It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah)."
Quran 60:8-9

Yusuf Ali:
"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."
Quran 60:8-9

Pickthal:
"Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong-doers."
Quran 60:8-9


How come your translation is different? None of them used the word "respect" They all said to not befriend them.



What you need to do is to walkme through the translation I provided and show me where the words are wrong

and btw it is not my trnalsation

Now I wonder why you passed on 4:148?

Oh yeh it exposes your ignornce and your submission to the enemy fo Allah

Now , you defend your religion your way and it is not my business

and i will continue defending my religion my way and it is not your business , you can consider me not Muslim, however your consideration means nothing to me

ok?

I hope that you don't direct any comment to me in the future

Thanks
AhmedBahgat

cooolway wrote:

How come your translation is different? None of them used the word "respect" They all said to not befriend them.

LOL

you sound like a desperate Muslim who wants to take credit from the kafirs on the expense of another Muslim

look mister

respect may equal to deal justly

However, I'm happy to accept your translation

yet you have not replied to 4:148 (that is my main argument mister smart) the argumnet about QAWL Suo (Hurtful speech) In Public

Yep I understand it's too hard verse for you, someone who wants to submit to the enemy

why don't you go to FFI and open another thread about Aysha and let the kafirs educate you?

you are sucj a fool indeed
AhmedBahgat

Hey guys

you should visit this web site and read what polite raza says:

http://councilofexmuslims.com/

LOL

what a clear cut hypocrite that raza is
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

All_Brains wrote:
.....and reflects true Islam values.


can you please elaborate regarding the above about me?

cheers
Raza

AhmedBahgat wrote:
What you need to do is to walkme through the translation I provided and show me where the words are wrong

and btw it is not my trnalsation

Now I wonder why you passed on 4:148?

Oh yeh it exposes your ignornce and your submission to the enemy fo Allah

Now , you defend your religion your way and it is not my business

and i will continue defending my religion my way and it is not your business , you can consider me not Muslim, however your consideration means nothing to me

ok?

I hope that you don't direct any comment to me in the future

Thanks

Please don't get offended by it; I was simply asking a question. I know you are better knowledge than me in Islam, I am not trying to belittle you at all.

Why wouldn't I consider you a Muslim?; Because you used a different translation? So what?

I passed 4:148 because your translation correlates with Pickthal's translation of the Noble Quran.

Translation you posted:
"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."
Quran 4:148

Muhsin Khan:
"Allah does not like that the evil should be uttered in public except by him who has been wronged. And Allah is Ever AllHearer, AllKnower."
Quran 4:148

Pickthal:
"Allah loveth not the utterance of harsh speech save by one who hath been wronged. Allah is ever Hearer, Knower."
Quran 4:148

It is very similar to Pickthal but it is differnt from Mushsin Khan.
All_Brains

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
.....and reflects true Islam values.


can you please elaborate regarding the above about me?

cheers


I was merely confirming your advice that you are entitled to insult the criticizers of Islam as ordained and prescribed in the Quran, hence the reflection of true Islamic value comment.
Raza

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cooolway wrote:

How come your translation is different? None of them used the word "respect" They all said to not befriend them.

LOL

you sound like a desperate Muslim who wants to take credit from the kafirs on the expense of another Muslim

look mister

respect may equal to deal justly

However, I'm happy to accept your translation

yet you have not replied to 4:148 (that is my main argument mister smart) the argumnet about QAWL Suo (Hurtful speech) In Public

Yep I understand it's too hard verse for you, someone who wants to submit to the enemy

why don't you go to FFI and open another thread about Aysha and let the kafirs educate you?

you are sucj a fool indeed

The thing that I really liked about Saladin was that he respected his enemies but he didn't become friends with them.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
.....and reflects true Islam values.


can you please elaborate regarding the above about me?

cheers


I was merely confirming your advice that you are entitled to insult the criticizers of Islam as ordained and prescribed in the Quran, hence the reflection of true Islamic value comment.



You are wrong of course

because i donlt insult those who critisize islam politely, like you for example

on the other hand, the ones I'm insulting are not critics of Islam, rather CLEAR CUT ENEMIES, who lie, fabricate, manipulate and as well insult my prophet and Allah

what more unjust by those you reckon?
Raza

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
on the other hand, the ones I'm insulting are not critics of Islam, rather CLEAR CUT ENEMIES, who lie, fabricate, manipulate and as well insult my prophet and Allah

You don't have to respect them but you could respect them. If they start insulting, simply leave them.
They insult to see your reaction, ignoring them will not give them the reaction they wanted, hence leaving you and your religion alone.
All_Brains

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
.....and reflects true Islam values.


can you please elaborate regarding the above about me?

cheers


I was merely confirming your advice that you are entitled to insult the criticizers of Islam as ordained and prescribed in the Quran, hence the reflection of true Islamic value comment.



You are wrong of course

because i donlt insult those who critisize islam politely, like you for example

on the other hand, the ones I'm insulting are not critics of Islam, rather CLEAR CUT ENEMIES, who lie, fabricate, manipulate and as well insult my prophet and Allah

what more unjust by those you reckon?


Sure, but that Christian person GenZ did not really insult Islam. GenZ criticized Islam from a Christian point of view.

Anyway, this is a little irrelevant as we all have bigger fish to fry!
Raza

"A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realized God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
This is when I joined FFI, I had this question:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139353
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

All_Brains wrote:
Sure, but that Christian person GenZ did not really insult Islam. GenZ criticized Islam from a Christian point of view.

Anyway, this is a little irrelevant as we all have bigger fish to fry!


can you direct me to such comment and if I'm at fault then I'm happy to say sorry to him, on the other hand I don't think I faulted with him, but please give me a link to such comment so i can confirm
All_Brains

Raza wrote:
"A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realized God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
This is when I joined FFI, I had this question:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139353


Cool! I read the thread, but I don't think people really understood the irony behind it. Let me take your trough it.

1. The boy is obviously religious, as initially he sincerely prayed for the bike.
2. He then realized deep down that no one is actually listening, i.e, God does not really exist.
3. So he took matters into his own hand and stole that bike he wanted.
4. And since religion can be very deeply engraved in his mind, he couldn't get over the religious guilt.

5. And ended up doing like the vast majority of all religious people in the world...become a hypocrite!
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
on the other hand, the ones I'm insulting are not critics of Islam, rather CLEAR CUT ENEMIES, who lie, fabricate, manipulate and as well insult my prophet and Allah


Raza wrote:
You don't have to respect them but you could respect them.



If I don't have to respect them then in no way I will respect the enemy of Allah who insult and mock Him

Raza wrote:
If they start insulting, simply leave them.


LOL, and look like a weak coward, no fukin way, an eye for an eye


Raza wrote:
They insult to see your reaction, ignoring them will not give them the reaction they wanted,


I don't care about what they want, it is all about what I want, and that is exactly what I want, to make them drink from the cup that is worse than the one they want me to drink from

Raza wrote:

hence leaving you and your religion alone.


Hahah

to my fukin pleassure

listen sir, I'm no schiolar nor I invite any one to Islam

do you get that?

if you do then please don't copy cat the confused kafirs, it seems you are on the verge and will join them soon, good luck with that
All_Brains

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure, but that Christian person GenZ did not really insult Islam. GenZ criticized Islam from a Christian point of view.

Anyway, this is a little irrelevant as we all have bigger fish to fry!


can you direct me to such comment and if I'm at fault then I'm happy to say sorry to him, on the other hand I don't think I faulted with him, but please give me a link to such comment so i can confirm


Not at all Ahmed, as I said before we all have a bigger fish to fry and more important responsibility.

besides, we like you the way you are! You're unique, direct, funny and knowledgeable.

I will myself stand against anyone who just insult Islam or Muhammad for the sake of it without providing any evidence, not because I am religious but because I hope this forum will stand for fairness and debates based on logic.

Wala Yehemak ya abu hmaid, bass inta kidah rakez fi al-muade2 al-keberah!
AhmedBahgat

Hey A_B

This is what that freak said in his first comment in my thread:

The freak said:

Islam was created in a desire to satisfy the lusts and needs of a certain type of soul that was not finding satisfaction with the religions of the day.


Now that is enough to classigfy him as an enemy of Islam because he was directinig the comment to my in my thread

therefore no appolgies and I stand to what I said against such freak enemy of islam

Salam
Raza

All_Brains wrote:
Raza wrote:
"A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realized God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
This is when I joined FFI, I had this question:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139353


Cool! I read the thread, but I don't think people really understood the irony behind it. Let me take your trough it.

1. The boy is obviously religious, as initially he sincerely prayed for the bike.
2. He then realized deep down that no one is actually listening, i.e, God does not really exist.
3. So he took matters into his own hand and stole that bike he wanted.
4. And since religion can be very deeply engraved in his mind, he couldn't get over the religious guilt.

5. And ended up doing like the vast majority of all religious people in the world...become a hypocrite!

LoL
That's hilarious.

For me, When I was stealing Pokemon cards, I used to say that God will forgive, and that I can get away with it because in Islam, you are not fully responsible for your actions until you reach puberty.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure, but that Christian person GenZ did not really insult Islam. GenZ criticized Islam from a Christian point of view.

Anyway, this is a little irrelevant as we all have bigger fish to fry!


can you direct me to such comment and if I'm at fault then I'm happy to say sorry to him, on the other hand I don't think I faulted with him, but please give me a link to such comment so i can confirm


Not at all Ahmed, as I said before we all have a bigger fish to fry and more important responsibility.

besides, we like you the way you are! You're unique, direct, funny and knowledgeable.

I will myself stand against anyone who just insult Islam or Muhammad for the sake of it without providing any evidence, not because I am religious but because I hope this forum will stand for fairness and debates based on logic.

Wala Yehemak ya abu hmaid, bass inta kidah rakez fi al-muade2 al-keberah!


Thanks mate

however I have proved my case, he is the one who started mocking my religion on my thread

Salam mate
Raza

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
[I don't care about what they want, it is all about what I want, and that is exactly what I want, to make them drink from the cup that is worse than the one they want me to drink from.

Why sink low to their level?

And your primary goal should be to make them stop insulting Islam, not to make them piss so they insult more.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

AhmedBahgat wrote:
[I don't care about what they want, it is all about what I want, and that is exactly what I want, to make them drink from the cup that is worse than the one they want me to drink from.


Raza wrote:

Why sink low to their level?


I will beat them in any level they want to go down to, I'm a professional and know exactly how to deal with such lowest of the lows


Raza wrote:
And your primary goal should be to make them stop insulting Islam,



LOL, as if they will ever stop, it seems you donlt understand what an enemy of your religion means, when you do I'm sure you will change your barbie world jesus mode

Raza wrote:

not to make them piss so they insult more.


Sir, that is exactly what I want them to do, TO INCREASE THEIR KUFR so they move further down the levels of Hell, and I enjoy the showtime more

the freaks don't know how my plan will make them more kafirs and when they increase in their kufr then:

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
AhmedBahgat

Hello A_B

I just took a break and prayed Maghrib then prepared a milk bottle for my 4 years old son, during my prayers, most of the times my mind just think of other things which is bad during the prayer of course, and because it's not easy not to think of anything other than Allah while praying, I adapted to this:

if these disturbing thoughts come during the prayers and I can't get rid of it then I will think about what i should say to others in regards to whatever religious debate we have in hand or even any consequence of that, like my hostile actions, and as you can see many Muslims and Kafirs try hard to fault me, despite I'm sure they like reading what I write, I guess what make them want to read it is MY 100% straightforwardness, no alternatives on my side in here, now during my prayer I thought of something that is going to be IMPOSSIBLE for all of you (Muslims or not) to refute

it is in relation to my hostile replies and bad words that I use in my comments, it has to be in relation to that because it was the last thing I was doing before I started my prayer, which was to fukin defend my actions again and again and again, now what I want to achieve with this comment is to defend my position for one final time and this time I won't use Quran verses like 4:148, rather 100% logic and I challenge any human to refute it:

let me refer to myself as party A and all of them as party B

now to be fair, we have to analyse if party A (me) insult their religion and their gods and their prophets as they do

some will jump the gun and say, you do Ahmed, you do by saying the bible is corrupt

Ahmed says:

Hold on boys and girls, you say the same about the Quran, so we are even in here, what both of us needs to do though is to present evidences for that corruption

Do I ever say Christianity and Judaism are fake religions?

Of course not, indeed I always said that both are from the same God, even I say the same regarding Hinduism, that is why it is impossible to charge me with such charge

Do I ever insult their gods?

Of course not, this is because I always say their gods are one who is the same God as mine

Some may say, Ahmed you say Jesus is not god and this is insult to our god Jesus

I say BS, this is because I respect Jesus as a man more than the Christians respect him as a god, the examples of mocking Jesus by the Christians themselves are massive on cyber space

It is them who claim that Jesus was a helpless god who was arrested, mocked, spat at, urinated at, bashed, nailed then hanged to die on a cross in public for further humiliation wjile he cried like a coward “my god, my god, why you have forsaken me?”, as if he was talking to himself and as if he forsake himself and as fukin if god may die, what a load of BS man

I defend against such crap that they associate to the honourable Jesus, his honour is the same magnitude as the honour of Mohammed, not an atom weight of a difference, at least from my side as a Muslim, I don’t talk on the Muslims behalf btw

Some may say, no Ahmed, you mock Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism, NOT by claiming that they are fake rather by claiming that they have been corrupted over the years

Ahmed say:

Hold on a minute boys and girls, I say the fukin same regarding Islam and I also claim that islam is corrupted over the years and most Muslims are confused

Again you can’t charge me with such



Now let’s look at the other party, party B:

Do they say Islam is a fake religion?

Of course they fukin do, look at what the Christian whom you defended said about Islam

He fukin said that Islam was created based on some human lust, some crap like that, i.e. not from God

See, the difference between me and them, I say their religions are from God and they fukin say mine is fake

Do they insult my God?

Do I need to prove that mate?, of course they fukin do

Do they insult Mohammed?

Mate, what do you think?

They are guilty as charged

That is why I have to insult them, because I can’t insult their God and their prophets as they do to mine

NO ONE CAN REFUTE THE ABOVE


Salam mate as I have a long comment to write in regards to 5:32
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

I just took a break and prayed Maghrib then prepared a milk bottle for my 4 years old son, during my prayers, most of the times my mind just think of other things which is bad during the prayer of course, and because it's not easy not to think of anything other than Allah while praying, I adapted to this:


Nice to see the gentle human side of you. You must be a proud dad!
Quote:

if these disturbing thoughts come during the prayers and I can't get rid of it then I will think about what i should say to others in regards to whatever religious debate we have in hand or even any consequence of that, like my hostile actions, and as you can see many Muslims and Kafirs try hard to fault me, despite I'm sure they like reading what I write, I guess what make them want to read it is MY 100% straightforwardness, no alternatives on my side in here, now during my prayer I thought of something that is going to be IMPOSSIBLE for all of you (Muslims or not) to refute


Look, you're not really hurting anyone by expressing your views. You should always do and say what you think is right as long as it does not inflect harm on others.
Quote:


it is in relation to my hostile replies and bad words that I use in my comments, it has to be in relation to that because it was the last thing I was doing before I started my prayer, which was to fukin defend my actions again and again and again, now what I want to achieve with this comment is to defend my position for one final time and this time I won't use Quran verses like 4:148, rather 100% logic and I challenge any human to refute it:


I can clearly see you're upset about this and I will have a look with you at your viewpoint.
Quote:


let me refer to myself as party A and all of them as party B

now to be fair, we have to analyse if party A (me) insult their religion and their gods and their prophets as they do

some will jump the gun and say, you do Ahmed, you do by saying the bible is corrupt

Ahmed says:

Hold on boys and girls, you say the same about the Quran, so we are even in here, what both of us needs to do though is to present evidences for that corruption


Fair enough!

Quote:
Do I ever say Christianity and Judaism are fake religions?

Of course not, indeed I always said that both are from the same God, even I say the same regarding Hinduism, that is why it is impossible to charge me with such charge

Do I ever insult their gods?

Of course not, this is because I always say their gods are one who is the same God as mine


Sure, but this is a problem that all religions have with each other. Each believe in the one before and deny the one after to claim seal of religions! Christianity acknowledges Judaism in the same way you acknowledge both of them, but Judaism
mocks Christianity and claims JC to be a false prophet. Judaism and Christianity naturally both deny Islam as hoax.
It's a pattern and the battle of who's got the last word!
Quote:

Some may say, Ahmed you say Jesus is not god and this is insult to our god Jesus

I say BS, this is because I respect Jesus as a man more than the Christians respect him as a god, the examples of mocking Jesus by the Christians themselves are massive on cyber space


Sure, but Christians will argue that those who do that are not real Christians!

Quote:
It is them who claim that Jesus was a helpless god who was arrested, mocked, spat at, urinated at, bashed, nailed then hanged to die on a cross in public for further humiliation wjile he cried like a coward “my god, my god, why you have forsaken me?”, as if he was talking to himself and as if he forsake himself and as fukin if god may die, what a load of BS man


Now, this is why Muslims can never understand the Christian self-sacrifice dogma. To Christians what happened to Christ the hours before and during the cruxifiction is far from humiliation. It's the manifestation of completely submitting to the will of God, extreme strong faith and ultimate salvation.....salvation by simply letting go!

I don't believe in Christ, but I understand what they defend! Does it make sense? Hell no!
Quote:

I defend against such crap that they associate to the honourable Jesus, his honour is the same magnitude as the honour of Mohammed, not an atom weight of a difference, at least from my side as a Muslim, I don’t talk on the Muslims behalf btw


They do honor him, but in their own unique way.

Quote:
Some may say, no Ahmed, you mock Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism, NOT by claiming that they are fake rather by claiming that they have been corrupted over the years

Ahmed say:

Hold on a minute boys and girls, I say the fukin same regarding Islam and I also claim that islam is corrupted over the years and most Muslims are confused

Again you can’t charge me with such


Yes, I give you that.


Quote:
Now let’s look at the other party, party B:

Do they say Islam is a fake religion?

Of course they fukin do, look at what the Christian whom you defended said about Islam

He fukin said that Islam was created based on some human lust, some crap like that, i.e. not from God

See, the difference between me and them, I say their religions are from God and they fukin say mine is fake


Sure, and that Christians will get the same from Jews. You just happen to be the "unlucky" last making their religions obsolete or less relevant.

Quote:
Do they insult my God?

Do I need to prove that mate?, of course they fukin do

Do they insult Mohammed?

Mate, what do you think?

They are guilty as charged

That is why I have to insult them, because I can’t insult their God and their prophets as they do to mine

NO ONE CAN REFUTE THE ABOVE


Salam mate as I have a long comment to write in regards to 5:32
[/quote]

Some just do insult Allah, Muhammad and Islam due to ignorance and hatred and some others due to their own understanding of the teaching of the Quran.

You focus on your mission and be yourself. Don't defend yourself, no one is here to attack you personally, but may be the ideas you hold!

Good night!
Mutley

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

BMZ wrote:
Ahmed,

Apple_Pie and the Likes

There is a huge problem these days which the evangelists are facing. Jesus has been turned into a man-god or god-man of many roles, which cannot be justifed and explained using the Holy Bible, which is full of ambiguities and contradictions.

The Christian apologists have tried their best to explain but to no avail. Now they are looking for Jesus in Qur'aan


Yeah, I never understood THAT one.

BMZ wrote:

and evangelists like Apple-Pie are trying to look outside the Jewish Holy Scriptures, since the Jews have already confirmed that there is no Jesus in their Holy Scriptures.


Well, I believe he is mentioned in the Talmud in an expectedly unflattering manner. Is he in the Torah as well? Obviously that is debatable.

BMZ wrote:

Here, we have to disregard the Christians' OT, which is a forged copy of the copy of the mistranslation done by 70 hired Jews, who translated the Jewish Holy Scriptures and gave their hirer/employer a bad translation in Greek known as the Septuagint or fonly known as LXX. The Christian holy scripture was written using that bad translation. And you know the pickle the Christians are in.


That's funny. I have read the English translation of both the Torah and the OT, and they are at least 98% the same, short of a few numbers and dates and possibly locations, none of which change the meaning. The biggest difference is that the OT adds additional books.

BMZ wrote:

The apologist has no other alternative left but to try and find Jesus in Islam and Qur'aan.


You may be missing the point. The whole purpose for trying to establish Jesus in the OT is so that Jesus can be the fulfillment of a prophecy, which is one of the measures of whether someone is a true prophet or not. This is why Muslims constantly try and find Muhammad in the Bible. But finding Jesus in a book that Christians consider false (the Quran) is rather pointless. And one doesn't have to look hard, because clearly the Quran DOES mention Jesus, but it twists him to meet the needs of Muhammad. And mentioning Jesus after the fact, so to speak, doesn't do anything to confirm Jesus one way or the other. It only tells us that people in the 7th century believed in Jesus' existence and his divinity, and the divinity aspect is what Muhammad had the biggest distaste for.

BMZ wrote:

At least he can be found in Qur'aan as a humble Slave of God. In his desire to find Jesus in Qur'aan, the Christian apologists and apple_Pie find words such as 'wa huwa', meaning 'and he is' to mean He is. In "Yakhrujo" meaning "it comes out or he comes out", they see Jesus coming or issuing out or He comes out. Laughing


It does confound me to see people claim that a book that they claim is a lie confirms Jesus' divinity. How odd. That's like Muslims using a book they call corrupted to confirm Muhammad as a legitimate prophet.

BMZ wrote:

In the verse, 'Yakhrujo mim-bainas-sulb-e wat-taraaib" Apple_Pie sees Jesus coming out. LOL! He does not understand that the verse is talking about semen coming out or issuing out. He thinks Sulb is Saleeb (cross). Rotflmao. Laughing

Apple_Pie, like Ali Sina does not read, speak and understand Arabic. He writes from Christian resources produced for evangelist. I have written him off as folks at many other non-Muslim sites have written him off as a bigot and a hypocrite.

You are doing a good job by exposing him and you have my full support for doing so.

Salaams
BMZ


Sure, because it meets your agenda. No surprise there.
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:


Here is somthing coool for you that will slam dunk your christians debaters

Hello All

Chriitians always accuse me of mocking Jesus peace be upon him, however I don't mock Jesus, because Jesus for me is exactly like Mohammad peace be upon both, it is the Christians who mock him for about 2000 years, they made him a joke, many humans at his time pissed on him before they killed him while he cried like a coward, and it suppose to be him, knowing that he has to die for us, this is just a load of non sense


Oh, so it's more courageous to have someone else suffer the repercussions of your actions rather than you yourself doing it? Could you imagine if someone attributed that to Muhammad? You would have a cow. But you don't see any problem with Jesus doing this, because whether you realize it or not, you don't have the same respect for Jesus as you do for Muhammad.

When one no longer does things, or one is no longer the doer, and instead, things are done through them, rather than by them, then that is God in the flesh. God becomes the doer and the personal will disappears. Obviously that's going to fly 3 miles over your head but I might as well say it anyway..
BMZ

Re: Invite Apple_Pie here

Ahmed,

Can you invite Apple-Pie to write here or at the council of ex-Muslims' site? Would be fun.

Laughing

Salaams
BMZ
BMZ

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

[quote="Mutley"]

BMZ wrote:
That's funny. I have read the English translation of both the Torah and the OT, and they are at least 98% the same, short of a few numbers and dates and possibly locations, none of which change the meaning. The biggest difference is that the OT adds additional books.


That means you have not really read them both side by side. Raed paralle and you will find how the Original Jewish Scriptures were forged. I will give you an example of the forgery:

Christians' OT: Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Jewish Holy Scriptures:Psalm 2:12
Arm yourselves with purity lest He become angry and you perish in the way, for in a moment His wrath will be kindled; the praises of all who take refuge in Him.

Do you now see the forgery? The verse in the Jewish Holy Scriptures is talking about not making God angry. There is no mention of making the son angry. LOL!

In the Christians' OT, fear has been instilled in the Christian to kiss the son, meaning emrace the son, if not, the son may turn nasty full of wrath and anger and may destroy the people in his anger.

Very Happy

BMZ
Mutley

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

[quote="BMZ"]
Mutley wrote:


BMZ wrote:
That's funny. I have read the English translation of both the Torah and the OT, and they are at least 98% the same, short of a few numbers and dates and possibly locations, none of which change the meaning. The biggest difference is that the OT adds additional books.


That means you have not really read them both side by side. Raed paralle and you will find how the Original Jewish Scriptures were forged. I will give you an example of the forgery:

Christians' OT: Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Jewish Holy Scriptures:Psalm 2:12
Arm yourselves with purity lest He become angry and you perish in the way, for in a moment His wrath will be kindled; the praises of all who take refuge in Him.

Do you now see the forgery? The verse in the Jewish Holy Scriptures is talking about not making God angry. There is no mention of making the son angry. LOL!


That's one verse. I did say that at least 98% of it was the same didn't I? The Christians chose the Aramaic meaning of the word, which is indeed "son". I've seen a whole list of differences where the words aren't identical but clearly say the same thing anyway. You found one exception. Big deal?
Mutley

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

Raza wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
[I don't care about what they want, it is all about what I want, and that is exactly what I want, to make them drink from the cup that is worse than the one they want me to drink from.

Why sink low to their level?

And your primary goal should be to make them stop insulting Islam, not to make them piss so they insult more.


Why should anybody stop insulting Islam? Islam insults other religions. The very core premise of Islam is an insult to Christianity. Anyway, don't bother with the "above it all" nonsense. Nobody's buying.
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:
I just took a break and prayed Maghrib then prepared a milk bottle for my 4 years old son


Did you mean 4 month old son? Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by milk bottle.

When I was 4 years old, I used to fix my own breakfast cuz my ma wuz too stinkin lazy to get out of bed early enough. Laughing Laughing Hey, it was actually good for me. Very Happy
Mutley

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:


I will beat them in any level they want to go down to, I'm a professional and know exactly how to deal with such lowest of the lows


Great Baghat.



That means you will accept my debate challenge?

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

Raza wrote:
And your primary goal should be to make them stop insulting Islam,



LOL, as if they will ever stop, it seems you donlt understand what an enemy of your religion means, when you do I'm sure you will change your barbie world jesus mode

Raza wrote:

not to make them piss so they insult more.


Sir, that is exactly what I want them to do, TO INCREASE THEIR KUFR so they move further down the levels of Hell, and I enjoy the showtime more

the freaks don't know how my plan will make them more kafirs and when they increase in their kufr then:

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED


Laughing Laughing Laughing Well, you are right. The Quran does have the sick notion that those in paradise will watch those burning below them. I just didn't think that anybody could find that to be a positive thing. Who wants to see suffering in paradise, right? Well, I guess the answer is, "you do". Laughing My my, how sickly vindictive. But then again, so was your profit. He always talked about winners and losers and who will have the last laugh like a hurt and disgruntled little school child. Hey, maybe you also like to spend your vacation watching executions. Laughing Laughing
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I just took a break and prayed Maghrib then prepared a milk bottle for my 4 years old son


Did you mean 4 month old son? Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by milk bottle.

When I was 4 years old, I used to fix my own breakfast cuz my ma wuz too stinkin lazy to get out of bed early enough. Laughing Laughing Hey, it was actually good for me. Very Happy


He is just under 4 YEARS old however he drinks soy milk like water, I have to buy it in dozens
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Mutley wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I just took a break and prayed Maghrib then prepared a milk bottle for my 4 years old son


Did you mean 4 month old son? Or maybe I misunderstood what you meant by milk bottle.

When I was 4 years old, I used to fix my own breakfast cuz my ma wuz too stinkin lazy to get out of bed early enough. Laughing Laughing Hey, it was actually good for me. Very Happy


He is just under 4 YEARS old however he drinks soy milk like water, I have to buy it in dozens


Oh, I see. Thanks for explaining. It didn't make sense at first.
AhmedBahgat

Now what you want to debate me on?

just the idea not the debate yet as we must create some rules first
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Now what you want to debate me on?

just the idea not the debate yet as we must create some rules first


Look in the debate section. The challenge is there. OK Corral, high noon. Me and you baggy Laughing doggy vs baggy
brainout

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

BMZ wrote:
Ahmed,

Apple_Pie and the Likes

There is a huge problem these days which the evangelists are facing. Jesus has been turned into a man-god or god-man of many roles, which cannot be justifed and explained using the Holy Bible, which is full of ambiguities and contradictions.

The Christian apologists have tried their best to explain but to no avail. Now they are looking for Jesus in Qur'aan and evangelists like Apple-Pie are trying to look outside the Jewish Holy Scriptures, since the Jews have already confirmed that there is no Jesus in their Holy Scriptures.
Here, we have to disregard the Christians' OT, which is a forged copy of the copy of the mistranslation done by 70 hired Jews, who translated the Jewish Holy Scriptures and gave their hirer/employer a bad translation in Greek known as the Septuagint or fonly known as LXX. The Christian holy scripture was written using that bad translation. And you know the pickle the Christians are in.

The apologist has no other alternative left but to try and find Jesus in Islam and Qur'aan. At least he can be found in Qur'aan as a humble Slave of God. In his desire to find Jesus in Qur'aan, the Christian apologists and apple_Pie find words such as 'wa huwa', meaning 'and he is' to mean He is. In "Yakhrujo" meaning "it comes out or he comes out", they see Jesus coming or issuing out or He comes out.  Laughing

In the verse, 'Yakhrujo mim-bainas-sulb-e wat-taraaib" Apple_Pie sees Jesus coming out. LOL! He does not understand that the verse is talking about semen coming out or issuing out. He thinks Sulb is Saleeb (cross). Rotflmao.  Laughing

Apple_Pie, like Ali Sina does not read, speak and understand Arabic. He writes from Christian resources produced for evangelist. I have written him off as folks at many other non-Muslim sites  have written him off as a bigot and a hypocrite.

You are doing a good job by exposing him and you have my full support for doing so.

Salaams
BMZ


No offense, BMZ, but the bold text you post is sheer drivel.  Christ has been known to be Divine since Old Testament times:  Yeshua, His Future Name, was even known.  That Jews dispute it, that some Christians are so unstudied in Bible they can't read it properly, doesn't change the testimony and scholarship of millions throughout the centuries, that His Divinity is attested in OT and New.  So before you spout off this kind of generalization, google on the internet for "Hypostatic Union" (classical theological name for the God-Man nature of Christ), and "Trinity".  If you do that you'll find a ton of verses which we Christians all know, to support both theological terms.  Which terms, by the way, have been around in the original Greek (from which the English derives), since oh about 1st century AD.
Mutley

Wow, sometimes you perplex me.
HomoErectus

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

Mutley wrote:
Raza wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
[I don't care about what they want, it is all about what I want, and that is exactly what I want, to make them drink from the cup that is worse than the one they want me to drink from.

Why sink low to their level?

And your primary goal should be to make them stop insulting Islam, not to make them piss so they insult more.


Why should anybody stop insulting Islam? Islam insults other religions. The very core premise of Islam is an insult to Christianity. Anyway, don't bother with the "above it all" nonsense. Nobody's buying.



Islam is an insult to the whole human race, including muslims.

And what does Islam mean to the atheist - nada!

One of the games muslims play is exchanging punches with christians and jews....

How does he try to punch atheists/agnostics ?

He drives them into more and more being kufar....
In order to be able to watch them burn.

How funny....

I am a quite happy kufar, I enjoy my kufarism, and if there's a way of becoming more kufar than before - I say THANK YOU to the man who did it !

He is the "role model" in the negative sense - yes, its the "profit" !
BMZ

Re: Exposing the gang of deceit

brainout wrote:
No offense, BMZ, but the bold text you post is sheer drivel.  Christ has been known to be Divine since Old Testament times:  Yeshua, His Future Name, was even known.  That Jews dispute it, that some Christians are so unstudied in Bible they can't read it properly, doesn't change the testimony and scholarship of millions throughout the centuries, that His Divinity is attested in OT and New.  So before you spout off this kind of generalization, google on the internet for "Hypostatic Union" (classical theological name for the God-Man nature of Christ), and "Trinity".  If you do that you'll find a ton of verses which we Christians all know, to support both theological terms.  Which terms, by the way, have been around in the original Greek (from which the English derives), since oh about 1st century AD.


Show me Yeshua's future name, not from the OT but from the Jewish Holy Scriptures. I don't want verses quoted from OT for the simple reason that it is a wholesale copy of the original Jewish Scriptures which were forged by the early Church fathers. However, I will allow you to quote from both so that we have a comparison.

I do not discuss by googling. I discuss with material from the Scriptures only. Now tell me if there is any word such as Trinity, Hypo-Static Union and Incarnation in the New Testament or the OT and the Jewish Holy Scriptures?

Did Jesus teach any of these? The answer is no. Please show me half a ton of verses from the gospels, Paul's letters and Acts.

You even have not got Yeshua's name right. Imagine Jesus walking along the streets of New York and imagine people calling out Jesus! Jesus!, he would just walk by quietly.

Trinity, hypostatic union and incarnation were coined long after he was gone. Anything, not taught by the man, cannot be accredited to him. Testimonies given, do not even give the name of a person.
Who saw him going up into heavens?

There is so much incoherence in the Christian scripture that only the Gentiles could believe it because they did not know much about the original Holy Scriptures then.

BMZ

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