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AhmedBahgat

How come some prophets didn't do Hajj?

Salam all

A dumb woman on FFI raised a stupid argument to how come other prophets whom the Quran claim to be Muslims did not perform the Hajj while it is obligatory on all Muslims

To be honest, most (if not all) of what that woman ask is nothing but stupidity and ignorance, therefore most of what she raises has to be dismissed by myself in the nearest rubbish bin. Not to my surprise that the low kafirs follow the path of ignorance of each other,  a confused chap named Haji Murad who is ignorantly doubting the clear and obvious success of Mohammed, continued the stupidity of such woman and started to raise lengthy crap regarding the same argument raised by such stupid woman.

His stupid argument is summarized as follow:

Haji Murad of FFI said:
Hajj and Prophets Before Muhammad

Introductory note: This is an addendum to the ongoing discussion on "Islamic prophets went to Hajj". I will try to explicate the noncompliance of Islamic prophets (apart from Abraham and Muhammad) who never made it to Ka'ba on pilgrimage is a serious breach of prophetic etiquettes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ahmed says:

Hahahahaha, how dumb and ignorant such freaks of FFI, let me show you how 4 verses from the Quran should demolish his stupidity and ignorance while at the same time exposing it to the whole world.

Firstly, the issue of when the kaaba was built:

Well, the Quran never told us when it was built, however the Quran implies strongly that it was built before Ibrahim, letís look at following verse:

And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! Accept from us; surely You are the all- Hearing, the all-Knowing.

[The Quan ; 2:127]

وَإِذْ يَرْفَعُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ الْقَوَاعِدَ مِنَ الْبَيْتِ وَإِسْمَاعِيلُ رَبَّنَا تَقَبَّلْ مِنَّا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ (127)

-> See above: وَإِذْ يَرْفَعُ إِبْرَاهِيمُ الْقَوَاعِدَ مِنَ الْبَيْتِ وَإِسْمَاعِيلُ , which should mean: And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House, i.e. the foundations of the House were there already, what Ibrahim and his son Ismael did was only to raise the foundations, it implies that the foundations were buried somewhere due to whatever reason before him (Ibrahim),  then Ibrahim and his son were informed to where the foundations were buried then all they did was to raise it above ground.

Letís move on to the next verse, which should confirm the above:

And when We designated to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying: Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves

[The Quan ; 22:26]

وَإِذْ بَوَّأْنَا لِإِبْرَاهِيمَ مَكَانَ الْبَيْتِ أَن لَّا تُشْرِكْ بِي شَيْئًا وَطَهِّرْ بَيْتِيَ لِلطَّائِفِينَ وَالْقَائِمِينَ وَالرُّكَّعِ السُّجُودِ (26)

-> See: وَإِذْ بَوَّأْنَا لِإِبْرَاهِيمَ مَكَانَ الْبَيْتِ , i.e. And when We designated to Ibrahim the place of the House, i.e. the place of the House was already there where its foundations is located, Ibrahim was only designated to such place, i.e. Ibrahim never built such place from scratch, in the same verse we read that Ibrahim was ordered to: Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves

From the above 2 verses, Ibrahim was assigned a few tasks, let me point them out so far:

1) Raise the foundations of the House (2:127)
2) Purify the House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves (22:26)

Then in the next verse 22:27 we read that Ibrahim was ordered to do a third task:

And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage: they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,

[The Quan ; 22:27]

وَأَذِّن فِي النَّاسِ بِالْحَجِّ يَأْتُوكَ رِجَالًا وَعَلَى كُلِّ ضَامِرٍ يَأْتِينَ مِن كُلِّ فَجٍّ عَمِيقٍ (27)

-> See: وَأَذِّن فِي النَّاسِ بِالْحَجِّ , Wa Aazan Fi Al Nas Be Al Hajj, i.e. And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage, this is very important bit, because the word used is Aazan, i.e. inform, i.e. like the word Azaan, The prayer call, i.e. Ibrahim only informed the people that this place which he unravelled then raised above ground then purified is the place for them to do Hajj, i.e. the verse is never an indication that Hajj was obligatory during that time, it was only to inform the people that the House of Allah is ready for them, this confirms brother Berber argument that it was never obligatory during Ibrahim time.  

Now the following verse where the Hajj was ordained by Allah as an obligatory worshipping practice upon all people should demolish the rest of the kafir ignorance, this is because up to the time of revealing this verse, the Hajj was never obligatory upon all the people as we learnt above, remember, Ibrahim only announced to the people that the place of the house is a place for them to come and worship Allah. Now, even when it was made obligatory by Allah Himself as we will read soon, we should recognise with ease that it was never an obligatory like the Salat (the prayer) to be a Muslim, letís have a look:

In it are clear signs, the prayer-place of Ibrahim, and whoever entered it shall be secure, and to Allah pilgrimage of the House is incumbent upon the people, those who are able to find a way of doing it; and whoever disbelieved, then indeed Allah is independent of the creatures.

[The Quan ; 3:97]

فِيهِ آيَاتٌ بَيِّنَاتٌ مَّقَامُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمَن دَخَلَهُ كَانَ آمِنًا وَلِلّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلاً وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ الله غَنِيٌّ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ (97)

-> See how the order regarding the Hajj upon all people was given by Allah Himself: وَلِلّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ , Wa Lillah Ala  Al Nas Hajj Al Bayt, i.e. and to Allah, pilgrimage of the House is incumbent upon the people, see how the order is now given directly by Allah and not Ibrahim, this should mean from the time of such verse revelation, Hajj became compulsory, HOWEVER and this is a very BIG HOWEVER, the Hajj compulsion was never as the prayer compulsion, see how Allah gave an exemption to many people from doing the Hajj: مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلاً , Mann Isttataa Ilaihi Sabeela, i.e. those who are able to find a way of doing it, SEE, let me put it to you together just in case you are dumb enough not to see it and read it:

This is how the order of the Hajj is given by Allah as we read in 3:97,

وَلِلّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلا

And this is how it should be read in Arabic:

Wa Lillah Ala  Al Nas Hajj Al Bayt, Mann Isttataa Ilaihi Sabeela

And this is what it means in English:

and to Allah pilgrimage of the House is incumbent upon the people, those who are able to find a way of doing it.

How clear is that, let me assume for argument sake that when Ibrahim was ordered in 22:27  to And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage is the order of compulsion upon all people including the prophets and messengers, again their stpid argument holds no water because maybe MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE INCLUDING PROPHETS AND MESSNEGERS COULD NOT FIND A WAY OF DOING IT, yet they are Muslims according to 3:97

What a slam dunk that is boys and girls, I love it how I use the Quran alone to expose you almost every day, I love the Quran

Now, refute the above freaks, and till then keep looking at the following animation:

[img:300:100]http://free-islam.com/extraimages/slamdunk.gif[/img]

Salam
BMZ

Salaams, Ahmed

Which dumb woman was that? I know only three. They are Ms.Westerner, fire_snake and Mersk. However, I am sure it could not have been Ms.Westerner for she cannot see past through her nose. †Laughing

Please let the dumb lady know that Qur'aan came after all biblical prophets, mentioned in Qur'aan, had expired centuries ago.

Most of the Biblical prophets lived in Israel and visited Jerusalem, which was also the Temple of God.
Jesus, reportedly, also walked a total of approximately 24,000 kilometres within a period of 24 months at the rate of 30 kilometres per day but he never crossed the Jordan. Jesus is also reported to have done a "Triumphal Hajj" of Jerusalem. †

Abraham was a travelling-sort of prophet who traversed the valleys and other challenging landscapes from Arabia to Hebron, including some areas up North and some down South.

The FFI goons, naturally being dumb, do not realise that Muhammad was told to revive the practice of Hajj which was done by Abraham and his followers.

Haven't read much of Haji Murad. Will try to read his junk and stuff, when I proxy in. However, ask him this question:

"Why were Muslims not ordered to go to Jerusalem for Hajj?" Load him up with another hint question, "Why did Allah allow Muhammad to change the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca?"

Once you have posted, please let me know the link and I will follow. I may get busy on Topix.com, to see how Anti-Jihad is blasting the Muslims there. He has "invited" me there.  Laughing  

Salaams
BMZ
AhmedBahgat

BMZ wrote:
Salaams, Ahmed

Which dumb woman was that? I know only three. They are Ms.Westerner, fire_snake and Mersk. However, I am sure it could not have been Ms.Westerner for she cannot see past through her nose. †Laughing

Please let the dumb lady know that Qur'aan came after all biblical prophets, mentioned in Qur'aan, had expired centuries ago.

Most of the Biblical prophets lived in Israel and visited Jerusalem, which was also the Temple of God.
Jesus, reportedly, also walked a total of approximately 24,000 kilometres within a period of 24 months at the rate of 30 kilometres per day but he never crossed the Jordan. Jesus is also reported to have done a "Triumphal Hajj" of Jerusalem. †

Abraham was a travelling-sort of prophet who traversed the valleys and other challenging landscapes from Arabia to Hebron, including some areas up North and some down South.

The FFI goons, naturally being dumb, do not realise that Muhammad was told to revive the practice of Hajj which was done by Abraham and his followers.

Haven't read much of Haji Murad. Will try to read his junk and stuff, when I proxy in. However, ask him this question:

"Why were Muslims not ordered to go to Jerusalem for Hajj?" Load him up with another hint question, "Why did Allah allow Muhammad to change the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca?"

Once you have posted, please let me know the link and I will follow. I may get busy on Topix.com, to see how Anti-Jihad is blasting the Muslims there. He has "invited" me there. †Laughing

Salaams
BMZ


Here we go mate

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1066121#1066121

Take care
BMZ

Hello, Ahmed

Thanks for posting that message. As expected, there was an immdiate incoherent response from the two women, named earlier.

Can you invite those two here?  Very Happy

I am taking this opportunity to ask All_Brains if this type of cross-referencing and cross-posting is permitted or not.

Salaams
BMZ
Baal

So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.

Good work Ahmed.

So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.
All_Brains

Re: Hello, Ahmed

BMZ wrote:
Thanks for posting that message. As expected, there was an immdiate incoherent response from the two women, named earlier.

Can you invite those two here?  Very Happy

I am taking this opportunity to ask All_Brains if this type of cross-referencing and cross-posting is permitted or not.

Salaams
BMZ


Hello BMZ

I would be a hypocrite if I preach freedom for all and then deny your freedom!

Also, I must say that I find fire-snake to be a simpleton.
AhmedBahgat

far out baal

Baal wrote:
So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.


Did I say that?

please read again what i said

Baal wrote:

Good work Ahmed.


Actually my argument is irrefutable


Baal wrote:
So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.


That is if you prove beyond a doubt that they didn't so the hajj

my argument is simply based on that

when you prove that, then what I said from the Quran should slam dunk those who alleg that those prophets can not be Muslim accoridng to the Quran

Baal wrote:

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.


dismissed

Baal wrote:

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.


where Mohammed said to face jerusalem?

any hearsay hadith is dismissed as you know

try to talk Quran only as I do

the first Qiblah was never said by Mohamed, when he was born, it seems that the people were facing jerusalem

now when the qiblah was changed, again it was not due to what Mohammed said, it is due to what Allah said in the Quran
BMZ

Re: Hello, Ahmed

All_Brains wrote:
Hello BMZ

I would be a hypocrite if I preach freedom for all and then deny your freedom!

Also, I must say that I find fire-snake to be a simpleton.


Thanks for clarifying that.

As I finished reading the second line, I sprayed tea all over my keyboard. You chose the right word.  

BMZ
BMZ

Ahmed

I can't access that link. Is the topic still there? Under what topic?

BMZ
BMZ

Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

in the rubbish bin, mate
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,



hmmm

where is above in the following Arabic text:

الَّذِينَ يَنقُضُونَ عَهْدَ اللَّهِ مِن بَعْدِ مِيثَاقِهِ وَيَقْطَعُونَ مَا أَمَرَ اللَّهُ بِهِ أَن يُوصَلَ وَيُفْسِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ (27)

[The Quran ; 2:27]
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
far out baal

Baal wrote:
So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.


Did I say that?

please read again what i said

Baal wrote:

Good work Ahmed.


Actually my argument is irrefutable


Baal wrote:
So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.


That is if you prove beyond a doubt that they didn't so the hajj

my argument is simply based on that

when you prove that, then what I said from the Quran should slam dunk those who alleg that those prophets can not be Muslim accoridng to the Quran

Baal wrote:

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.


dismissed

Baal wrote:

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.


where Mohammed said to face jerusalem?

any hearsay hadith is dismissed as you know

try to talk Quran only as I do

the first Qiblah was never said by Mohamed, when he was born, it seems that the people were facing jerusalem

now when the qiblah was changed, again it was not due to what Mohammed said, it is due to what Allah said in the Quran


Ahmed, You said:
Quote:
How clear is that, let me assume for argument sake that when Ibrahim was ordered in 22:27  to And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage is the order of compulsion upon all people including the prophets and messengers, again their stpid argument holds no water because maybe MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE INCLUDING PROPHETS AND MESSNEGERS COULD NOT FIND A WAY OF DOING IT, yet they are Muslims according to 3:97

What a slam dunk that is boys and girls,...


You are implying that they did not do it because the could not find a way and now clarifying that maybe they did it and we do not know about it.

As to the part where you claim that the prophets might have done a hajj that we do not know about. Do not worry about it, we know they did not perform a hajj. Not a single one of them did it or even hinted at it.

The promised land is *not* in Mecca.

The only ones who did it, were the hanafis, at the time, led by Maslama from the Yemen if you want to consider him a prophet, you are welcome. Abu Bakr however did not think Maslama was a prophet as he tortured and beheaded him.

And for the record, when you pray, and perform wuduu, and prostate in the direction of a stone, and perform hajj, and fast for a month, all the instructions you are following, they were passed from Maslama, passed on from his parents and passed on to Muhammad. So, Haj Mabroor ya Ahmed.



Edit: modified the last line.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
far out baal

Baal wrote:
So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.


Did I say that?

please read again what i said

Baal wrote:

Good work Ahmed.


Actually my argument is irrefutable


Baal wrote:
So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.


That is if you prove beyond a doubt that they didn't so the hajj

my argument is simply based on that

when you prove that, then what I said from the Quran should slam dunk those who alleg that those prophets can not be Muslim accoridng to the Quran

Baal wrote:

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.


dismissed

Baal wrote:

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.


where Mohammed said to face jerusalem?

any hearsay hadith is dismissed as you know

try to talk Quran only as I do

the first Qiblah was never said by Mohamed, when he was born, it seems that the people were facing jerusalem

now when the qiblah was changed, again it was not due to what Mohammed said, it is due to what Allah said in the Quran


Ahmed, You said:
Quote:
How clear is that, let me assume for argument sake that when Ibrahim was ordered in 22:27 †to And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage is the order of compulsion upon all people including the prophets and messengers, again their stpid argument holds no water because maybe MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE INCLUDING PROPHETS AND MESSNEGERS COULD NOT FIND A WAY OF DOING IT, yet they are Muslims according to 3:97

What a slam dunk that is boys and girls,...


You are implying that they did not do it because the could not find a way and now clarifying that maybe they did it and we do not know about it.

As to the part where you claim that the prophets might have done a hajj that we do not know about. Do not worry about it, we know they did not perform a hajj. Not a single one of them did it or even hinted at it.

The promised land is *not* in Mecca.

The only ones who did it, were the hanafis, at the time, led by Maslama from the Yemen if you want to consider him a prophet, you are welcome. Abu Bakr however did not think Maslama was a prophet as he tortured and beheaded him.

And for the record, when you pray, and perform wuduu, and prostate in the direction of a stone, and perform hajj, and fast for a month, all the instructions you are following, they were passed from Maslama, passed on from his parents and passed on to Muhammad. So, Mabrook ya Jaheli.



It seems you misunderstood what I want due to your stupidity, I have no other option but to dismiss your crap, sorry
katlike

Wow,
You sure posted an awful lot of stuff.  You've shown us that you are very passionate and dedicated to the subject matter. Would I be wrong if I said you are nothing if not grammically correct?
AhmedBahgat

katlike wrote:
Wow,
You sure posted an awful lot of stuff. †You've shown us that you are very passionate and dedicated to the subject matter. Would I be wrong if I said you are nothing if not grammically correct?


Are you talking to me?

if Yes then please elaborate, I could not find the awful lot of stuff you are talking abolut?

also I clould not understand what you mean by being gramtically correct, to which argument exactly?

Thanks
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
far out baal

Baal wrote:
So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.


Did I say that?

please read again what i said

Baal wrote:

Good work Ahmed.


Actually my argument is irrefutable


Baal wrote:
So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.


That is if you prove beyond a doubt that they didn't so the hajj

my argument is simply based on that

when you prove that, then what I said from the Quran should slam dunk those who alleg that those prophets can not be Muslim accoridng to the Quran

Baal wrote:

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.


dismissed

Baal wrote:

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.


where Mohammed said to face jerusalem?

any hearsay hadith is dismissed as you know

try to talk Quran only as I do

the first Qiblah was never said by Mohamed, when he was born, it seems that the people were facing jerusalem

now when the qiblah was changed, again it was not due to what Mohammed said, it is due to what Allah said in the Quran


Ahmed, You said:
Quote:
How clear is that, let me assume for argument sake that when Ibrahim was ordered in 22:27  to And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage is the order of compulsion upon all people including the prophets and messengers, again their stpid argument holds no water because maybe MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE INCLUDING PROPHETS AND MESSNEGERS COULD NOT FIND A WAY OF DOING IT, yet they are Muslims according to 3:97

What a slam dunk that is boys and girls,...


You are implying that they did not do it because the could not find a way and now clarifying that maybe they did it and we do not know about it.

As to the part where you claim that the prophets might have done a hajj that we do not know about. Do not worry about it, we know they did not perform a hajj. Not a single one of them did it or even hinted at it.

The promised land is *not* in Mecca.

The only ones who did it, were the hanafis, at the time, led by Maslama from the Yemen if you want to consider him a prophet, you are welcome. Abu Bakr however did not think Maslama was a prophet as he tortured and beheaded him.

And for the record, when you pray, and perform wuduu, and prostate in the direction of a stone, and perform hajj, and fast for a month, all the instructions you are following, they were passed from Maslama, passed on from his parents and passed on to Muhammad. So, Mabrook ya Jaheli.



It seems you misunderstood what I want due to your stupidity, I have no other option but to dismiss your crap, sorry

Back into the cave you go Ahmed,

The prophets who were all born in the middle east did NOT perform Haj.
And we have NO record of them performing Haj.

So take the argument you made and drag it with you in shame. No messenger EVER gave Two sh1ts about the Meccan Kaaba. Not even Ibrahim until the muslims repeated what the Hanafis (Maslama) told them.

So, if you believe Maslama was a messenger, then you can prove me wrong.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,



hmmm

where is above in the following Arabic text:

الَّذِينَ يَنقُضُونَ عَهْدَ اللَّهِ مِن بَعْدِ مِيثَاقِهِ وَيَقْطَعُونَ مَا أَمَرَ اللَّهُ بِهِ أَن يُوصَلَ وَيُفْسِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ (27)

[The Quran ; 2:27]

22:27,
BMZ

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,


Yes, I am aware of that word 'lean' used in the translations but what could be a better word?

BMZ
BMZ

katlike wrote:
Wow,
You sure posted an awful lot of stuff. †You've shown us that you are very passionate and dedicated to the subject matter. Would I be wrong if I said you are nothing if not grammically correct?


How so? Would I be grammatically correct if I said you are grammically wrong?

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
far out baal

Baal wrote:
So the prophets and messengers could not make it to hajj.


Did I say that?

please read again what i said

Baal wrote:

Good work Ahmed.


Actually my argument is irrefutable


Baal wrote:
So you mean to say that, all those prophets who also happen to be semitic, who happen to have existed somewhere on the Southeast of the Mediterranean, who were not in india or china or the americas, those semitic prophets, were not able to find a way to do hajj.


That is if you prove beyond a doubt that they didn't so the hajj

my argument is simply based on that

when you prove that, then what I said from the Quran should slam dunk those who alleg that those prophets can not be Muslim accoridng to the Quran

Baal wrote:

Maybe they did not own a lean camel? but many of them were kings of their own people, they owned ALL the lean camels they needed.


dismissed

Baal wrote:

What you should concern yourself Ahmed is the following, why in the beginning muhammad told the muslims to face jerusalem, and then in less then 13 years, muhammad went back and told people to face kaaba.


where Mohammed said to face jerusalem?

any hearsay hadith is dismissed as you know

try to talk Quran only as I do

the first Qiblah was never said by Mohamed, when he was born, it seems that the people were facing jerusalem

now when the qiblah was changed, again it was not due to what Mohammed said, it is due to what Allah said in the Quran


Ahmed, You said:
Quote:
How clear is that, let me assume for argument sake that when Ibrahim was ordered in 22:27 †to And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage is the order of compulsion upon all people including the prophets and messengers, again their stpid argument holds no water because maybe MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE INCLUDING PROPHETS AND MESSNEGERS COULD NOT FIND A WAY OF DOING IT, yet they are Muslims according to 3:97

What a slam dunk that is boys and girls,...


You are implying that they did not do it because the could not find a way and now clarifying that maybe they did it and we do not know about it.

As to the part where you claim that the prophets might have done a hajj that we do not know about. Do not worry about it, we know they did not perform a hajj. Not a single one of them did it or even hinted at it.

The promised land is *not* in Mecca.

The only ones who did it, were the hanafis, at the time, led by Maslama from the Yemen if you want to consider him a prophet, you are welcome. Abu Bakr however did not think Maslama was a prophet as he tortured and beheaded him.

And for the record, when you pray, and perform wuduu, and prostate in the direction of a stone, and perform hajj, and fast for a month, all the instructions you are following, they were passed from Maslama, passed on from his parents and passed on to Muhammad. So, Mabrook ya Jaheli.



It seems you misunderstood what I want due to your stupidity, I have no other option but to dismiss your crap, sorry

Back into the cave you go Ahmed,

The prophets who were all born in the middle east did NOT perform Haj.
And we have NO record of them performing Haj.

So take the argument you made and drag it with you in shame. No messenger EVER gave Two sh1ts about the Meccan Kaaba. Not even Ibrahim until the muslims repeated what the Hanafis (Maslama) told them.

So, if you believe Maslama was a messenger, then you can prove me wrong.


listen mister dumb

before you continue your stupidity why donlt you show me where it was compulsory on all prophets to do Hajj

if you can't, then dismiss your stupid arse in the nearest toilet

cheers
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,


Yes, I am aware of that word 'lean' used in the translations but what could be a better word?

BMZ

A flying lean donkey would be a much better word.

Use your imagination like the Uswa Hasana did.
BMZ

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Maybe they did not own a lean camel?


Why does it have to be a lean camel? Won't a fat one do the same?

BMZ

?

koran: 2:27 ...they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,


Yes, I am aware of that word 'lean' used in the translations but what could be a better word?

BMZ

A flying lean donkey would be a much better word.

Use your imagination like the Uswa Hasana did.


No. A donkey cannot fly.

You still didn't get it. Please think again and let me know what does the 'lean camel' mean?

You are an Arabic-speaking person, you should know the meaning of the Arabic words. Try again.
I will wait.
Baal

The Arabic word is Damir. A word that is no longer used in contemporary Arabic.

This seems OOT Are you sure you do not want to open a new thread for this?
If this is another Arabic test then do not bother replying to this.

Tabari thinks it means: "الإبل الـمهازيـل." which means the weak camels.
Razi, plagiarizing from Tabari as usual, thinks it means: "والضمور الهزال"
Kortobi just thinks it is something we ride.
Bin Kathir thinks is just something we ride. He goes further to state that those who walk are preferred over those who ride. Kathir's reason is that those who walked was mentioned before those who ride (stupid reason).

The list goes on..

What is there to get?


BMZ wrote:
A donkey cannot fly.

Yes it can. And the moon can be split. And if it was not for the donkey flying, you would have been praying Three times a day instead of Five.
BMZ

Baal wrote:
The Arabic word is Damir. A word that is no longer used in contemporary Arabic.

This seems OOT Are you sure you do not want to open a new thread for this?
If this is another Arabic test then do not bother replying to this.

Tabari thinks it means: "الإبل الـمهازيـل." which means the weak camels.
Razi, plagiarizing from Tabari as usual, thinks it means: "والضمور الهزال"
Kortobi just thinks it is something we ride.
Bin Kathir thinks is just something we ride. He goes further to state that those who walk are preferred over those who ride. Kathir's reason is that those who walked was mentioned before those who ride (stupid reason).

The list goes on..

What is there to get?


BMZ wrote:
A donkey cannot fly.

Yes it can. And the moon can be split. And if it was not for the donkey flying, you would have been praying Three times a day instead of Five.


Baal,

I don't really need Razi, Tabari, Ibn Kathir and company to understand Qur'aan and you will never see me quoting them.  

I want to know from you what do you think of Damir? It surely is not a sick camel, not a weak camel, not an old camel and not a lazy camel.

Is there anything good that can come in your mind about this? What kind of a camel is Damir?

By the way, if there were fifty prayers ordained, I would have done that too. One guy prayed three times in one go and his people do it once a week. lol!

Where did you read about a flying donkey? Baalam's donkey never flew.  Laughing

BMZ
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
The Arabic word is Damir. A word that is no longer used in contemporary Arabic.

This seems OOT Are you sure you do not want to open a new thread for this?
If this is another Arabic test then do not bother replying to this.

Tabari thinks it means: "الإبل الـمهازيـل." which means the weak camels.
Razi, plagiarizing from Tabari as usual, thinks it means: "والضمور الهزال"
Kortobi just thinks it is something we ride.
Bin Kathir thinks is just something we ride. He goes further to state that those who walk are preferred over those who ride. Kathir's reason is that those who walked was mentioned before those who ride (stupid reason).

The list goes on..

What is there to get?


BMZ wrote:
A donkey cannot fly.

Yes it can. And the moon can be split. And if it was not for the donkey flying, you would have been praying Three times a day instead of Five.


Baal,

I don't really need Razi, Tabari, Ibn Kathir and company to understand Qur'aan and you will never see me quoting them.  

A strange personal choice. Nothing to be proud off though. There are meanings to the words that are no longer available.

Also any dishonesty they commit, is often a passive dishonesty, they will almost always give you a much better answer then the deedats and the naiks who have no qualms about engaging in active dishonesty.

BMZ wrote:

I want to know from you what do you think of Damir? It surely is not a sick camel, not a weak camel, not an old camel and not a lazy camel.

Is there anything good that can come in your mind about this? What kind of a camel is Damir?

You are stating "Damir", but to clarify, it sounds more like "Damer".

I also think you might be mixing up "Damer" with "Dameer".

BMZ wrote:

By the way, if there were fifty prayers ordained, I would have done that too. One guy prayed three times in one go and his people do it once a week. lol!

That is the problem. Only Three prayers are ordained, not Five and not Fifty. You are welcome to pray 500 times if you want. But people have more precious things to do with their lives then to feel guilty because they only prayed 41 times and missed 9 bendovers.

And that Vampire who prays Three times in One go can go stuff it, we understand each other?

BMZ wrote:

Where did you read about a flying donkey? Baalam's donkey never flew.  Laughing

BMZ

Baalam? you mean Borak?

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