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ibnishaq

Naughty hadiths

Would al rahim prescribe this?

Book 38, Number 4390:

   Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

   I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

What is up with this?

This is just one of many many examples. Perhaps you guys could pitch in. I would also like to see responses from muslims on these traditions.
BMZ

Re: Naughty hadiths

ibnishaq wrote:
Would al rahim prescribe this?


This is a very good question, ibnishaq and the answer is a firm No.

This is just one of many examples of crap ahadith in various collections. The Arabs of the time knew that boys started to grow hair not only on the genitals but all over their body and the face.

There was no need to look at the boys' dicks. They could have just looked at their face and the moustasche .  Wink

How are you doing? Are you still in or have exited Islam? lol.

BMZ
All_Brains

Re: Naughty hadiths

BMZ wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Would al rahim prescribe this?


This is a very good question, ibnishaq and the answer is a firm No.

This is just one of many examples of crap ahadith in various collections. The Arabs of the time knew that boys started to grow hair not only on the genitals but all over their body and the face.

There was no need to look at the boys' dicks. They could have just looked at their face and the moustasche .  Wink

How are you doing? Are you still in or have exited Islam? lol.

BMZ


Funny that the same story has been recorded by Mohammad's most prominent biographers, Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hesham!

So, are you now rejecter of Hadith, Sunnah and Sirah?
ibnishaq

Re: Naughty hadiths

BMZ wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
Would al rahim prescribe this?


This is a very good question, ibnishaq and the answer is a firm No.

This is just one of many examples of crap ahadith in various collections. The Arabs of the time knew that boys started to grow hair not only on the genitals but all over their body and the face.

There was no need to look at the boys' dicks. They could have just looked at their face and the moustasche .  Wink

How are you doing? Are you still in or have exited Islam? lol.

BMZ

Hey, thanks for the response! I am still in Islam, but am also still in the limbo stage where idk! Islam's stance on homosexuality is just too much for me to comprehend, and Islam's cursing of dogs and man/woman interaction have just made my heart sink. Some interpret things a bit differently but the vast majority of scholars disagree with them. The vast majority still hold the conservative, traditional beliefs and it will likely stay that way for a while. I suppose they hold these views though because it is what Qu'ran/Sunnah teaches.
HomoErectus

Dear ibnishaq

It looks as if you were holding on to the notorious "last straw"....

WHY get so nervous ?

Are you drowning, falling, suffocating ?

The sun is coming up, tomorrow, just like it did yesterday !

Why be so desperate ?

We will have to get up today, as we did yesterday, and will do the same tomorrow, to go to our jobs, trying to make a living, the issue is survival in the modern world !

No "jinns" involved, only the real world !

You are reading and realizing the multiple absurdities of "Islam", as well as the same sort of absurdities of other "faiths"...

Why believe in fairy-tales, to take them for REAL in our world... ?
isn't that absurd ?

Why rely on hear-say, instead of your very personal and relevant experiences ?

By what logic are you supposed to follow a "law" and fables from 1400 years ago ?

There ain't no "god" in this nonsense we call "religions" !
Intellectual_fighter

Dear brother Ibnishaq,


Its a Good sign that still you are in Islam though it is in its minuest form. Allah says that those who would have the tiniest form of Imaan (believe in Allah and Rasool), have got a chance in hereafter..


Learning Islam from a proper Islamic source is very important in order to have a clear view of Islam. All the other world religions fall terribly in facing Islam...

Therefore, if you come to logical sense then there is no other religion other than Islam that has strong basis and foundation.



Think about dark matters, can you see them , no. But the universe is full of dark matters and dark matters supercede  the visible matters. Dark matters have got long long life than that of visible matters..

Now, think about jinns...Science has its limitations. But Islam is the religions that advocates educatin and science. Read Islamic History.


Think about this universe. What all the prominent scientists believe ?..that there must have been a super intelligenty entity who desinged or who is behind this huge universe. There is a God. But none can define his shape and size. He is one only. He has no father . no mother.

He is super all powerful, HE is Exalted and HE is Almighty Allah...



Learn Islam cuz envrionment does make people go away from true Islam....



Islam is the only truth...




With duas,,,,



KIndest regards..
ibnishaq

Intellectual fighter thanks for the response. Please visit my "quran and homosexuality" thread i think in the qu'ran section and give me your thoughts on that! one of my biggest problems with islam is because of my sexuality
HomoErectus

ibnishaq wrote:
Intellectual fighter thanks for the response. Please visit my "quran and homosexuality" thread i think in the qu'ran section and give me your thoughts on that! one of my biggest problems with islam is because of my sexuality



Dear Ishaq

The rules are clear, you have no life in Islam, when you are gay !
Period !

Unless you repent, and from then on refrain from being gay, but act "hetero" !

Although... they might kill you before you get to "repenting"....

Why would you want to "follow" the rules of a "God" who is trying to kill you in your earthly life, and torture you endlessly in the hereafter... ?

This is ABSURD, kinda...
And it is a bit... "obsessive" too, like a demon sitting on your shoulder !
And you are unable to shake this demon off !

You know, there's an easy "recipe" to get rid of this "demon"...

Just tell him to go away !
Tell him you don't believe in him anymore, he is not there, he is just a nightmarish illusion, a chimera, a brain-game...

You will see, soon, there is no more "demon", nothing to be afraid of, in real life without belief in fairy tales, and ancient fables, muhadith-business !

Of course you have to convince yourself first...

But how can you be not convinced - this alleged "god" is after your life, here and there !

Tell him to go away, you don't believe in him anymore !

There is absolutely NO PROOF around, no matter HOW hard the preachers of religions are trying to convince you, that there is such a thing called "god" around, above, or whatever...

We might as well say - there is no god !

Sure, I can't prove that either !

But my claim is as valid as theirs !

Simple as that !
Baal

Intellectual_fighter wrote:
Dear brother Ibnishaq,


Its a Good sign that still you are in Islam though it is in its minuest form. Allah says that those who would have the tiniest form of Imaan (believe in Allah and Rasool), have got a chance in hereafter..

Not True in the minuest bit.

Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Learning Islam from a proper Islamic source is very important in order to have a clear view of Islam. All the other world religions fall terribly in facing Islam...

Was he quoting the BBC or CNN? He was quoting ibn hesham, how much closer to the islamic source do you want him to get? Any closer to the islamic source and he will have to dig muhammad's corpse out and hump it.
Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Therefore, if you come to logical sense then there is no other religion other than Islam that has strong basis and foundation.

It is his logical sense that is causing him his problems IF.
Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Think about dark matters, can you see them , no. But the universe is full of dark matters and dark matters supercede  the visible matters. Dark matters have got long long life than that of visible matters..

Subhanalla?

Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Now, think about jinns...Science has its limitations. But Islam is the religions that advocates educatin and science. Read Islamic History.

Hahahahaha
Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Think about this universe. What all the prominent scientists believe ?..that there must have been a super intelligenty entity who desinged or who is behind this huge universe. There is a God. But none can define his shape and size. He is one only. He has no father . no mother.

And who designed him? Is he such a simple little Amoeba that he was created out of nothing? Yet we the humans HAD to have been created by someone?

If god can exist from nothing, then so can humans. Find a better argument to present your god.

Intellectual_fighter wrote:
He is super all powerful, HE is Exalted and HE is Almighty Allah...

Superman! or was it Batman? Maybe Spiderman. Nah, Allah is probably the Joker.
Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Learn Islam cuz envrionment does make people go away from true Islam....

Again, true islam *is* the problem. Reality, philosophy, logic, atrocities, murder, hate and fear, all make me turn away from true islam.

Intellectual_fighter wrote:

Islam is the only truth...

or else..



With duas,,,,



KIndest regards..[/quote]
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

This!

Baal wrote:
And who designed him? Is he such a simple little Amoeba that he was created out of nothing? Yet we the humans HAD to have been created by someone?

If god can exist from nothing, then so can humans. Find a better argument to present your god.


Q4T (Quoted for Truth). It interests me how people can claim that everything had an origin, and take this as far back as the universe itself (saying therefore God must have created the universe), yet when asked “Who created God?” their logic stops there! Why not go with Occam’s Razor, and accept the simplest logical conclusion, that of the Universe itself, without going into infinite regression (who created God? Who created that creator of God, etc)?
Baal

Re: This!

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
Baal wrote:
And who designed him? Is he such a simple little Amoeba that he was created out of nothing? Yet we the humans HAD to have been created by someone?

If god can exist from nothing, then so can humans. Find a better argument to present your god.


Q4T (Quoted for Truth). It interests me how people can claim that everything had an origin, and take this as far back as the universe itself (saying therefore God must have created the universe), yet when asked “Who created God?” their logic stops there! Why not go with Occam’s Razor, and accept the simplest logical conclusion, that of the Universe itself, without going into infinite regression (who created God? Who created that creator of God, etc)?

And the same people, when told, they can not answer you. Yet come back few month later with the same argument that god must have created the universe yet no one created him.
brainout

No god can exist from nothing;  nothing creates Godness, which is immaterial and nonspacetime, by definition.  The God would always just be, no beginning.  Beginning belongs to finity concepts.  

I don't even know of a single holy book ever on this planet which claims there was a time when at least 'some' version of its own gods, did NOT exist.  Life must come from Life, so that means LIFE just "is", first.  Then all other life can have existence.

Trouble with polytheism is that the "gods" aren't really gods at all.  They are unequal, usually have some birthing, have limited power and limited turf -- kinda like X-men.  That's not at all what "god" would mean.

Now for those who prefer atheism, just call it "life" and not "god".  That's what animism is, anyway.  Evolution is just animism with the "god" idea removed.  So call it "life" instead, lol.  "Life" just always existed.  Then everything else you want to say atheistically, will flow logically from that.
HomoErectus

brainout wrote:
No god can exist from nothing;  nothing creates Godness, which is immaterial and nonspacetime, by definition.  The God would always just be, no beginning.  Beginning belongs to finity concepts.



Hi, dear brainout

This is exactly the point where the human mind is too limited to comprehend this...

We cannot really understand something to have been there since ever, and will be there forever...

What is "forever" ?

What is "endless" ?

I confess, I always end up looking for a "beginning" and an "ending", when I TRY to make my mind fly endlessly...

Since my personal "spaceship" started at some point [on this planet] it logically must be "landing" at some other point, somewhere, at least "somewhere"...

Taking it over from this other thread, even letting my "spaceship" fly out of this "bladder", our universe... into the "space" outside, into the "nothingness", no light, no energy, no nothing, and - if possible - even "more" endless than the former endlessness, nothing applies there, my ship can fly and fly and fly, till "the cows come home" or not...

I can comprehend as much as that I am not capable of really comprehending that.

Boy, would I feel lost and lonely out there, flying endlessly...

And even knowing that flying in nothingness, NOTHING can happen to me or my ship... I would end up being scared shitless, or bored to death...


Quote:

I don't even know of a single holy book ever on this planet which claims there was a time when at least 'some' version of its own gods, did NOT exist.  Life must come from Life, so that means LIFE just "is", first.  Then all other life can have existence.



Yes, thats our human logic...


Quote:

Trouble with polytheism is that the "gods" aren't really gods at all.  They are unequal, usually have some birthing, have limited power and limited turf -- kinda like X-men.  That's not at all what "god" would mean.

Now for those who prefer atheism, just call it "life" and not "god".  That's what animism is, anyway.  Evolution is just animism with the "god" idea removed.  So call it "life" instead, lol.  "Life" just always existed.  Then everything else you want to say atheistically, will flow logically from that.



My agnosticism - I still leave the possibility of such a thing as "god" - but like All_Brains has put it, he/she/it is surely not in any of the existing "holy books", can't be - and my agnosticism questions all these concepts, including "Why can't gods die ?", why and by what logic do they HAVE to be ETERNAL, and as you can see by my diction, I also question "Why only ONE God ?" - seriously, WHO said its just ONE God, by what logic, - aaaah yes, the "prophets" of various "religions" have said so, huhh -  so we are again at the point of believing socalled "prophets", whatever religion...

See what I mean ?

Out of my eyes - and sure, I may be totally wrong on this, but then again, I might be right  - I can only try to CLEAN my picture of ALL these prefabricated limitations which are attributed to a possible god or gods...

ANYTHING goes, when thinking about such an existence like "God" !

I often refuse to let my mind think about it, since its actually a waste of my human time on this [still] wonderful planet, and if there's a "God" he surely doesn't lower himself to human limited thinking, expecting me to BOW down like before an emperor, I can't understand "him" anyway, but then maybe... who knows...

Researching religions is a good thing, you can find out a lot about the human psyche...
The more I know about them [religions], the more of an Atheist I become !
brainout

Reading your latest post, HomoErectus:  yeah, what is "forever" and "endless" and "beginning" and "ending"!  These are all terms which by nature presume TIME.  True Infinity would be timeLESS, hence all such terms would be subsets of infinity, and more properly belong to the FUNCTION of FINITY.  At least, mathematically.

Mathematically, there must be SOMETHING or SOMEONE who has no beginning.  The largest set containing all others must be a stasis.  Within it, all that movement, beginnings, endings, endless going on, can occur.  But what HOLDS it must be a stasis.  So you can say math was always there, and you'll have to say "life" at very least -- which makes real sense, for it's not only matter and energy, we see.  We see something (or Someone) acting on everything, and that something (etc.) has neither mass nor energy as its own property.

Atheism is not precluded here.  Actually, we have an IDENTITY question of what or who is acting on matter and energy.  But that there is action upon both, no one would deny.  It's a THIRD ELEMENT (there, that's politically neutral) which must be defined, if one is to be scientific and logical.

As for your spaceship, the "bladder" of this universe would be its boundaries.  The concept of alternative universes is, I think, specious.  Better definition would be had if one thinks of the meaning of probability.  That is, all the math which SEEMS to point to other universes is ACTUALLY pointing to OTHER POTENTIALS, rather than to reality.  For we know that math can always play WHAT IF, yet reality is always but one thing.  It depends on which variables interact in which formulas at any given moment.  And we have to SAY "moment", because all finity is confined to time (or spacetime, if you prefer).  So time is the reality in which we live, the bladder being also a spatial thing, which means finite.  But math is neither mass nor energy, but rather a set of principles which to some extent we can predictably determine.

Next, you go to the whole question of "god".  I think the correct and logical starting point is to determine WHAT "god" must mean.  When in English we type "God" with a capital "G", it means the quasi-monotheistic idea, of Infinite Personhood.  In polytheism by contrast, "god" with a little "g" is used to mean what amounts to an above-human person of limited lifespan (i.e., has a beginning and no ending or has an ending too), and limited powers, no two "gods" having the same abilities, powers, turf, etc.  That seems to be the logical gamut of ideas of "godness", for lack of a better term.

Religion is always useless, imo.  Most you can get from it are ideas about what "god" they believe in.  And then, extrapolate out the attributes presented to see if those attributes are logically true.  I prefer math, and I find Bible helpful in deciding what these attributes ought to be.  But sometimes the other 'holy books' are helpful too.  But the religions?  LOL they are all about control.  God is not people, so "control" would not be a need.  Well, when I say that I betray a belief in "God" not "gods".  For the latter being limited, would need some kind of mechanism for control.

What say you?  Enjoyed your post.  Thanks.
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

I’ve got a great one for you, drawn as usual from Sahih al–Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre–lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she–monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

HomoErectus

Dear brainout

Very wise comments from you like always, since I'm momentarily short of time, I will return to your input later...


Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
I’ve got a great one for you, drawn as usual from Sahih al–Bukhari:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188:

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:

During the pre–lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she–monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.




As a quickie...
This is really a funny story, especially coming from a guy named "Amr bin maimoon"

In Farsi/Dari language "maimoon" means MONKEY !!!

"Nashe maimoon" would mean "drunk, stoned like a monkey" !

And the guys name "amr" = lord, "bin"= son of, and "maimoon"= monkey !

So, the "lord, son of the monkey" is telling a story about monkeys... Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
isn't that cute ?
hehe...
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

Makes you wonder if someone stuck that in for a laugh… Didn’t know about ‘maimoon’, but I recognise ‘nasha’ because it means ‘intoxication’ in Urdu — obviously drawn from the Parsee.
Baal

True, in Arabic Maimoon means monkey, but it is an old word that is not commonly used. I know it because it came in a song in a movie i watched as a kid.

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