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AhmedBahgat

Obeying others is enough to constitute SHIRK

Salam all

I received a few questions in a PM and would like to share my reply with you:

Quote:
I've been thinking a lot about what you were saying bro


Good morning mate

Indeed mate, what I say is sort of mind blowing, it blows my own mind away

Quote:
You said somewhere else that many Muslims are committing Shirk when they follow the laws of other humans without the laws being sanctioned by Allah.


No question about it, and not just obeying the jinn, but also obeying the humans, let me show you this verse:

And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their gurdians that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists.

[The Quran ; 6:121]

وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ مِمَّا لَمْ يُذْكَرِ اسْمُ اللّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَفِسْقٌ وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَى أَوْلِيَآئِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ (121)


-> In the above verse Allah is informing us what the Shaitans from the Jinn will do to other Jinns and humans: وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَى أَوْلِيَآئِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ, i.e. and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their guardians that they should contend with you, the guardians who contend with us in here must be the humans, because the Jinn whom we can't see can't contend with us, i.e. the Shaitans from the Jinn are only suggesting for their Awliaa (their guardians) to contend with the believers, now if the believers follow other humans who are contending with them, then the believers are Mushrikoon, see h0ow Allah said it next: وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ, i.e. and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists.

How clear is that brother?, well it's clear that committing shirk is not by only taking others as gods, rather there is a more common type of shirk, which is to obey others in religious laws (being flawed or dandy) which were never sanctioned by Allah

Quote:
Indeed, Allah says that the jews and christians take their monks and rabbis as gods because they listened to whatever their monks and rabbis said.


Excatly, it is virtually taking them as gods, because they obey them in religious laws that were naver sanction by Allah, the bottom line is this:

If Allah will punish/reward us regarding His religion then IT MUST BE ONLY HIM TO MAKE THE LAWS THAT WE MUST ABIDE BY TO BE SAVED †

It makes no sense that other humans take such divine role as if they have been authored by Allah to make news laws on His behalf

Also, you must consider that the Muslims are as humans as the Jews and the Christians, with one exception, the Muslims are the main enemy of Satan, Satan does not need to do anything further for the Jews and the Christians, making them to reject the final message is more than enough to secure them in hell with him, Satan †most likely work harder with the Muslims, his main enemy, indeed their book (the quran) exposes him really bad, he must be hating that, therefore it is very logical that you should see more confused Muslims who hardly care about the message sent (the Quran) and only follow and obey crap made by humans who were the Awliaa (guardians) of the Shaitans

Quote:
do you think that todays muslims are taking their scholars as gods also, when they listen to the laws the scholars say?


According to the Quran, it is enough for those Muslims to obey them in hundreds of things that Allah never sanctioned, to be Mushrikoon Polytheists

This fact is confirmed in the following verses:

Most of the people will not believe, and even if you try hard.

[The Quran ; 12:103]

وَمَا أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتَ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ (103)

-> See Most of the people will not believe, and even if you try hard.

Then 3 verses later we read:

And most of them do not believe in Allah unless they are polytheists.

[The Quran ; 12:106]

وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللّهِ إِلاَّ وَهُم مُّشْرِكُونَ (106)

-> See: And most of them do not believe in Allah unless they are polytheists., we are talking here about those polytheist WHO BELIEVE IN ALLAH, i.e. 12:106 must cover the Muslims who claim to believe in Allah, i.e. Most Muslims are polytheists

Quote:

take care


Take care mate
Baal

How is that any different then any cult leader telling his sheep that most of the "rest" will not believe and that they have to be weary of the new believers or the believers that do not attend the 'meetings'.
AhmedBahgat

Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, letís look at the following verses:

30: Then set your face upright for the religion, the nature of Allah in which He has created the people; there is no altering of creation of Allah'; that is the valuable religion, but most of the people do not know,

31: Turning to Him, and fear Him and stand up for the prayer and be not of the polytheists,

32: Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect with what is with them is rejoicing.

[The Quran ; 30:30-32]

فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ (30)
مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (31)
مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ (32)

-> In verse 30:30 Allah is telling any believer what he/she should be doing in this life: Then set your face upright for the religion, the nature of Allah in which He has created the people;, the problem is, most of the people donít really know that what Allah is telling us about our religion is very valuable: there is no altering of creation of Allah'; that is the valuable religion, but most of the people do not know,, see how Allah is telling us that most of the people donít know that this religion sent to us is very valuable.

-> In the next verse 30:31 Allah continued to tell us what the believers should be doing: Turning to Him, and fear Him and stand up for the prayer, then Allah issued His very common warning: وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ , Wa La Takunu Min Al Mushrikeen i.e. and be not of the polytheists, , now, the next verse is the rest of this warning, the next verse simply describes Al Mushrikoon further: مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا , i.e. Of those who divided their religion and became sects, see. Let me put it to you together:

وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ, مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا

Which means:

and be not of the polytheists, of those who divided their religion and became sects  

See how clear it is, this means that any Muslim who boast about following any sect MUST BE A MUSHRIK according to 30:31-32, any sect follower with no exception to any sect, a sunni, a shia, an ahmadi, a bahai, etc etc, all of them are Mushrikoon, they just donít know it, see how verse 30:32 ended by telling us a clear fact about those sects: every sect with what is with them is rejoicing , how clear is that, indeed every sect being a sunni a shia or whatever is rejoicing with what is with them, what is with them is nothing but their man made crap which was invented to suit their low desires while at the same time detesting the man made teachings which other sects stand for: every sect with what is with them is rejoicing.

Salam
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, letís look at the following verses:
Salam


If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, letís look at the following verses:
Salam


If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.


shirk is not a crime in your man made books

in the Quran however is the worest of crimes
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, letís look at the following verses:
Salam


If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.


shirk is not a crime in your man made books

in the Quran however is the worest of crimes


So obeying the Australian government in applying a jail sentence on a thief, instead of the Islamic Shariah of chopping the hands of, is a shirk in your opinion?

Be careful with this one, as the answer may affect you citizenship status!!!
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, letís look at the following verses:
Salam


If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.


shirk is not a crime in your man made books

in the Quran however is the worest of crimes


So obeying the Australian government in applying a jail sentence on a thief, instead of the Islamic Shariah of chopping the hands of, is a shirk in your opinion?


Of course not, I'm not even obeying anyone in such, it is not my business nor I'm a law maker neither I'm a low enforcer

in egypt too they don't cut the hands of theives

what I can only do in this life is NOT TO BE A THEIF

that is hat is required from me pal

STEAM wrote:

Be careful with this one, as the answer may affect you citizenship status!!!


LOL, my citizenship can never be affected nor anyone can take it of me
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?,

Not at all Ahmed. As soon as a muslim makes any decision in regards to his life, he is a sect. For any muslim to believe you ahmed, then they will follow the same sect as you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

32: Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect with what is with them is rejoicing.

It is because of such verses in the doctrine that muslims will keep attacking each others. One guy declares the other to be a sect and vice versa and both sides are now allowed to use the sword verses, or a rusty small serrated knife as BMZ would prefer.

However Ahmed, we both know, that both sides are sects. And since the koran leaves most questions in life open and unanswered, then the safest way to avoid running in sects and cults, is to follow the examples set by rassoul allah salla allahu allaihi wa sallam.
AhmedBahgat

Excuse me baal

Islam is not a sect, it is a religion

now a sunni is a sect follower

a shia is a sect follower

an ahmadi is a sect follower

a Muslim is a Quran follower
BMZ

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All

I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information:

Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?,

Not at all Ahmed. As soon as a muslim makes any decision in regards to his life, he is a sect. For any muslim to believe you ahmed, then they will follow the same sect as you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

32: Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect with what is with them is rejoicing.

It is because of such verses in the doctrine that muslims will keep attacking each others. One guy declares the other to be a sect and vice versa and both sides are now allowed to use the sword verses, or a rusty small serrated knife as BMZ would prefer.

However Ahmed, we both know, that both sides are sects. And since the koran leaves most questions in life open and unanswered, then the safest way to avoid running in sects and cults, is to follow the examples set by rassoul allah salla allahu allaihi wa sallam.


Baal, most of the time, you always sound incoherent like the writers of gospels.  Wink

What did rassoulullah sallalahu alaihi wa sallam follow? Have you joined Ahle-Sunnat wal Hadith?  Laughing

BMZ
BMZ

cosmicdancer wrote:
If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.


Not petty and vain, CD but God has always depicted Himself as "Jealous and Possessive" right from the start of the Beginning. Shirk IS the biggest crime in the sight of God. For some men, may be not.

For the Jews, Shirk is also a crime, a word unthinkable.

For the Christians, it is not. Jesus never did Shirk. However, his confused NT writers encouraged Shirk. Others like Greeks, Romans, Hindus and Mithras had it big all the time.

Shirk is one thing that God has never been able to stand and put up with. A God that condones Shirk is no God.

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

BMZ wrote:
Have you joined Ahle-Sunnat wal Hadith? †Laughing

BMZ[/i]


LOL

that was funny, mate

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
shirk... in the Quran... is the worst of crimes


Yes I know.

But I cannot believe that it is a crime.

Therefore I cannot believe the Qur'an is from God.

Do you believe God will torture me forever in Hell because of that, Ahmad?
cosmicdancer

BMZ wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy' Rolling Eyes book).

It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention.

SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist.


Not petty and vain, CD but God has always depicted Himself as "Jealous and Possessive" right from the start of the Beginning. Shirk IS the biggest crime in the sight of God. For some men, may be not.

For the Jews, Shirk is also a crime, a word unthinkable.

For the Christians, it is not. Jesus never did Shirk. However, his confused NT writers encouraged Shirk. Others like Greeks, Romans, Hindus and Mithras had it big all the time.

Shirk is one thing that God has never been able to stand and put up with. A God that condones Shirk is no God.

BMZ


Salams BMZ - see my reply to Ahmad - your reply is also welcome Smile
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
shirk... in the Quran... is the worst of crimes


Yes I know.


Then that is what was talking about, I'm talking Quran not this life


cosmicdancer wrote:
But I cannot believe that it is a crime.


You better believe it because if God created you to only worship Him and you declined by following the devil in arrogance then you are Mushrik and you will go to hell for eternity if Allah exists

cosmicdancer wrote:

Therefore I cannot believe the Qur'an is from God.


fine, but that is one symptons of shirk, you are only listening to yout low desires motivated and encouraged by the devil

cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you believe God will torture me forever in Hell because of that, Ahmad?


100%

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:


cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you believe God will torture me forever in Hell because of that, Ahmad?


100%

cheers


Well you must follow your beliefs Ahmad.

And I must follow mine.

Smile

But let me ask you this Ahmad - what will God get from torturing me for all eternity?

What have I really done wrong?

And while you are thinking of an answer to that question here is a video of me with my kids - just so that you can really picture what you believe - and humanise your abstract ideas - this is the guy that God will (in your belief) torture for all eternity, burning my skin off then replacing it with new skin so that I keep feeling the eternal agony of burning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHy2kd8Gi3Y
cosmicdancer

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvyZUXI7Po

I hope God enjoys torturing us for all eternity.
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:


cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you believe God will torture me forever in Hell because of that, Ahmad?


100%

cheers


cosmicdancer wrote:
Well you must follow your beliefs Ahmad.

And I must follow mine.

Smile


Hello

Exactly, it makes no sense that I follow your belief and you follow mine  Very Happy


cosmicdancer wrote:
But let me ask you this Ahmad - what will God get from torturing me for all eternity?


His words is proven true the least, on the other hand He stated that punishing us will do nothing to Him

cosmicdancer wrote:

What have I really done wrong?


According to Him, he created you to worship Him, not to have a free ride, then He sent messengers with messages to you and you rejected it, that is the biggest wrong a human may commit and again according to Him

cosmicdancer wrote:
And while you are thinking of an answer to that question


I hardly think of an answer nowdays, everything comes sponteniously on the fly as I write, I love it.

cosmicdancer wrote:
here is a video of me with my kids -


beautiful kids, may Allah guide them to the straight path instead of following their parnets

cosmicdancer wrote:
just so that you can really picture what you believe - and humanise your abstract ideas - this is the guy that God will (in your belief) torture for all eternity, burning my skin off then replacing it with new skin so that I keep feeling the eternal agony of burning.


I don't need to picture you or your family to get the feel of it, I already picture myslef and my children in it and my duty to myself the least is to do whatever I can to avoid such humiliation and torture, now for my children, well, I'm not an emotional man, or I should say, i always do my best not to be, this is because emotions will do shit to me in this life nor it will save me in the afterlife, and I can assure you on the JD I won't care about anyone but myself, and even sacrify my own children into the fire if that will save me not to enter it, what i can only do to my chidlren is only in this life and just advicing them to what they should believe in and answer any question they might have and the rest should be upon them and Allah, on the JD we will be individuals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHy2kd8Gi3Y[/quote]
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvyZUXI7Po

I hope God enjoys torturing us for all eternity.


sacrcasm won't take anywhere nor it will save you on the JD if Allah exists

it seems it's a big issue to you, well, that is what I;m always talking about, the kafirs like you will always worry about this issue till their last day in this life then they should know

now let me ask you, how the belief in Allah may change your current life style?

cheers
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvyZUXI7Po

I hope God enjoys torturing us for all eternity.


sacrcasm won't take anywhere nor it will save you on the JD if Allah exists

it seems it's a big issue to you, well, that is what I;m always talking about, the kafirs like you will always worry about this issue till their last day in this life then they should know

now let me ask you, how the belief in Allah may change your current life style?

cheers


My life style hasn't changed. In all the years I believed and followed Islam to the last couple of years when I have lost my faith it hasn't changed - apart from the fact that I don't pray the formal prayers anymore.

Though I maintain a conversation with God - as I always have - ever since I was a child.
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvyZUXI7Po

I hope God enjoys torturing us for all eternity.


sacrcasm won't take anywhere nor it will save you on the JD if Allah exists


btw - there was no sarcasm in my post.
cosmicdancer

AhmedBahgat wrote:
I can assure you on the JD I won't care about anyone but myself, and even sacrify my own children into the fire if that will save me


Yes, I remember telling myself that.

But the truth is, I would sacrifice myself for my kids - gladly.
AhmedBahgat

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I can assure you on the JD I won't care about anyone but myself, and even sacrify my own children into the fire if that will save me


Yes, I remember telling myself that.

But the truth is, I would sacrifice myself for my kids - gladly.


again you are talking this life in the hearfater

we should wait and see on the hearfater what you and them are going to do

possibly your children may need to scarify you to save themselevs (god forbids)

salam
HomoErectus

AhmedBahgat wrote:


scarify you to save themselevs (god forbids)

salam



Nice slip here !!!!!! Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Salami [hungarian please !]

Salametti also [but they are italian !]

.
AhmedBahgat

[quote="HomoErectus"]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:



scarify you to save themselevs (god forbids)

salam



Nice slip here !!!!!! Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Salami [hungarian please !]

Salametti also [but they are italian !]


dismissed
HomoErectus

Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy

you're dismissed as a whole...

On another level, I always enjoy talking to you - honestly - pure fun !

.

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