| Archive for FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT BREAK THE CHAINS OF IGNORANCE AND FEAR |
| AhmedBahgat |
Obeying others is enough to constitute SHIRKSalam allI received a few questions in a PM and would like to share my reply with you:
Good morning mate Indeed mate, what I say is sort of mind blowing, it blows my own mind away
No question about it, and not just obeying the jinn, but also obeying the humans, let me show you this verse: And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their gurdians that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists. [The Quran ; 6:121] وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ مِمَّا لَمْ يُذْكَرِ اسْمُ اللّهِ عَلَيْهِ وَإِنَّهُ لَفِسْقٌ وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَى أَوْلِيَآئِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ (121) -> In the above verse Allah is informing us what the Shaitans from the Jinn will do to other Jinns and humans: وَإِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ لَيُوحُونَ إِلَى أَوْلِيَآئِهِمْ لِيُجَادِلُوكُمْ, i.e. and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their guardians that they should contend with you, the guardians who contend with us in here must be the humans, because the Jinn whom we can't see can't contend with us, i.e. the Shaitans from the Jinn are only suggesting for their Awliaa (their guardians) to contend with the believers, now if the believers follow other humans who are contending with them, then the believers are Mushrikoon, see h0ow Allah said it next: وَإِنْ أَطَعْتُمُوهُمْ إِنَّكُمْ لَمُشْرِكُونَ, i.e. and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists. How clear is that brother?, well it's clear that committing shirk is not by only taking others as gods, rather there is a more common type of shirk, which is to obey others in religious laws (being flawed or dandy) which were never sanctioned by Allah
Excatly, it is virtually taking them as gods, because they obey them in religious laws that were naver sanction by Allah, the bottom line is this: If Allah will punish/reward us regarding His religion then IT MUST BE ONLY HIM TO MAKE THE LAWS THAT WE MUST ABIDE BY TO BE SAVED It makes no sense that other humans take such divine role as if they have been authored by Allah to make news laws on His behalf Also, you must consider that the Muslims are as humans as the Jews and the Christians, with one exception, the Muslims are the main enemy of Satan, Satan does not need to do anything further for the Jews and the Christians, making them to reject the final message is more than enough to secure them in hell with him, Satan most likely work harder with the Muslims, his main enemy, indeed their book (the quran) exposes him really bad, he must be hating that, therefore it is very logical that you should see more confused Muslims who hardly care about the message sent (the Quran) and only follow and obey crap made by humans who were the Awliaa (guardians) of the Shaitans
According to the Quran, it is enough for those Muslims to obey them in hundreds of things that Allah never sanctioned, to be Mushrikoon Polytheists This fact is confirmed in the following verses: Most of the people will not believe, and even if you try hard. [The Quran ; 12:103] وَمَا أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتَ بِمُؤْمِنِينَ (103) -> See Most of the people will not believe, and even if you try hard. Then 3 verses later we read: And most of them do not believe in Allah unless they are polytheists. [The Quran ; 12:106] وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللّهِ إِلاَّ وَهُم مُّشْرِكُونَ (106) -> See: And most of them do not believe in Allah unless they are polytheists., we are talking here about those polytheist WHO BELIEVE IN ALLAH, i.e. 12:106 must cover the Muslims who claim to believe in Allah, i.e. Most Muslims are polytheists
Take care mate |
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| Baal |
How is that any different then any cult leader telling his sheep that most of the "rest" will not believe and that they have to be weary of the new believers or the believers that do not attend the 'meetings'. | ||||||||||||||||
| AhmedBahgat |
Salam All
I will take the chance of talking about Al Mushrikoon and would like to add further information: Do you know that following any Islamic sect is a clear cut case of SHIRK?, Well, let me tell you that it is, let’s look at the following verses: 30: Then set your face upright for the religion, the nature of Allah in which He has created the people; there is no altering of creation of Allah'; that is the valuable religion, but most of the people do not know, 31: Turning to Him, and fear Him and stand up for the prayer and be not of the polytheists, 32: Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect with what is with them is rejoicing. [The Quran ; 30:30-32] فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ (30) مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (31) مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ (32) -> In verse 30:30 Allah is telling any believer what he/she should be doing in this life: Then set your face upright for the religion, the nature of Allah in which He has created the people;, the problem is, most of the people don’t really know that what Allah is telling us about our religion is very valuable: there is no altering of creation of Allah'; that is the valuable religion, but most of the people do not know,, see how Allah is telling us that most of the people don’t know that this religion sent to us is very valuable. -> In the next verse 30:31 Allah continued to tell us what the believers should be doing: Turning to Him, and fear Him and stand up for the prayer, then Allah issued His very common warning: وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ , Wa La Takunu Min Al Mushrikeen i.e. and be not of the polytheists, , now, the next verse is the rest of this warning, the next verse simply describes Al Mushrikoon further: مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا , i.e. Of those who divided their religion and became sects, see. Let me put it to you together: وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ, مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا Which means: and be not of the polytheists, of those who divided their religion and became sects See how clear it is, this means that any Muslim who boast about following any sect MUST BE A MUSHRIK according to 30:31-32, any sect follower with no exception to any sect, a sunni, a shia, an ahmadi, a bahai, etc etc, all of them are Mushrikoon, they just don’t know it, see how verse 30:32 ended by telling us a clear fact about those sects: every sect with what is with them is rejoicing , how clear is that, indeed every sect being a sunni a shia or whatever is rejoicing with what is with them, what is with them is nothing but their man made crap which was invented to suit their low desires while at the same time detesting the man made teachings which other sects stand for: every sect with what is with them is rejoicing. Salam |
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| cosmicdancer |
If God exists - I can't believe he is the petty, vain and jealous God described in the Qur'an (or any other 'Holy'  book).
It is only humans with their massive egos that get angry when people don't pay attention to them and make them the centre of attention. SHIRK is not a crime - unless one is a self-inflated egotist. |
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| AhmedBahgat |
shirk is not a crime in your man made books in the Quran however is the worest of crimes |
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| All_Brains |
So obeying the Australian government in applying a jail sentence on a thief, instead of the Islamic Shariah of chopping the hands of, is a shirk in your opinion? Be careful with this one, as the answer may affect you citizenship status!!! |
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| AhmedBahgat |
Of course not, I'm not even obeying anyone in such, it is not my business nor I'm a law maker neither I'm a low enforcer in egypt too they don't cut the hands of theives what I can only do in this life is NOT TO BE A THEIF that is hat is required from me pal
LOL, my citizenship can never be affected nor anyone can take it of me |
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| Baal |
Not at all Ahmed. As soon as a muslim makes any decision in regards to his life, he is a sect. For any muslim to believe you ahmed, then they will follow the same sect as you.
It is because of such verses in the doctrine that muslims will keep attacking each others. One guy declares the other to be a sect and vice versa and both sides are now allowed to use the sword verses, or a rusty small serrated knife as BMZ would prefer. However Ahmed, we both know, that both sides are sects. And since the koran leaves most questions in life open and unanswered, then the safest way to avoid running in sects and cults, is to follow the examples set by rassoul allah salla allahu allaihi wa sallam. |
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| AhmedBahgat |
Excuse me baal
Islam is not a sect, it is a religion now a sunni is a sect follower a shia is a sect follower an ahmadi is a sect follower a Muslim is a Quran follower |
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| BMZ |
Baal, most of the time, you always sound incoherent like the writers of gospels. 
What did rassoulullah sallalahu alaihi wa sallam follow? Have you joined Ahle-Sunnat wal Hadith? 
BMZ |
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| BMZ |
Not petty and vain, CD but God has always depicted Himself as "Jealous and Possessive" right from the start of the Beginning. Shirk IS the biggest crime in the sight of God. For some men, may be not. For the Jews, Shirk is also a crime, a word unthinkable. For the Christians, it is not. Jesus never did Shirk. However, his confused NT writers encouraged Shirk. Others like Greeks, Romans, Hindus and Mithras had it big all the time. Shirk is one thing that God has never been able to stand and put up with. A God that condones Shirk is no God. BMZ |
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| AhmedBahgat |
LOL that was funny, mate cheers |
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| cosmicdancer |
Yes I know. But I cannot believe that it is a crime. Therefore I cannot believe the Qur'an is from God. Do you believe God will torture me forever in Hell because of that, Ahmad? |
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| cosmicdancer |
Salams BMZ - see my reply to Ahmad - your reply is also welcome 
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| AhmedBahgat |
Then that is what was talking about, I'm talking Quran not this life
You better believe it because if God created you to only worship Him and you declined by following the devil in arrogance then you are Mushrik and you will go to hell for eternity if Allah exists
fine, but that is one symptons of shirk, you are only listening to yout low desires motivated and encouraged by the devil
100% cheers |
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| cosmicdancer |
Well you must follow your beliefs Ahmad. And I must follow mine.
But let me ask you this Ahmad - what will God get from torturing me for all eternity? What have I really done wrong? And while you are thinking of an answer to that question here is a video of me with my kids - just so that you can really picture what you believe - and humanise your abstract ideas - this is the guy that God will (in your belief) torture for all eternity, burning my skin off then replacing it with new skin so that I keep feeling the eternal agony of burning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHy2kd8Gi3Y |
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| cosmicdancer |
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvyZUXI7Po I hope God enjoys torturing us for all eternity. |
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| AhmedBahgat |
Hello Exactly, it makes no sense that I follow your belief and you follow mine 
His words is proven true the least, on the other hand He stated that punishing us will do nothing to Him
According to Him, he created you to worship Him, not to have a free ride, then He sent messengers with messages to you and you rejected it, that is the biggest wrong a human may commit and again according to Him
I hardly think of an answer nowdays, everything comes sponteniously on the fly as I write, I love it.
beautiful kids, may Allah guide them to the straight path instead of following their parnets
I don't need to picture you or your family to get the feel of it, I already picture myslef and my children in it and my duty to myself the least is to do whatever I can to avoid such humiliation and torture, now for my children, well, I'm not an emotional man, or I should say, i always do my best not to be, this is because emotions will do shit to me in this life nor it will save me in the afterlife, and I can assure you on the JD I won't care about anyone but myself, and even sacrify my own children into the fire if that will save me not to enter it, what i can only do to my chidlren is only in this life and just advicing them to what they should believe in and answer any question they might have and the rest should be upon them and Allah, on the JD we will be individuals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHy2kd8Gi3Y[/quote] |
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| AhmedBahgat |
sacrcasm won't take anywhere nor it will save you on the JD if Allah exists it seems it's a big issue to you, well, that is what I;m always talking about, the kafirs like you will always worry about this issue till their last day in this life then they should know now let me ask you, how the belief in Allah may change your current life style? cheers |
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| cosmicdancer |
My life style hasn't changed. In all the years I believed and followed Islam to the last couple of years when I have lost my faith it hasn't changed - apart from the fact that I don't pray the formal prayers anymore. Though I maintain a conversation with God - as I always have - ever since I was a child. |
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| cosmicdancer |
btw - there was no sarcasm in my post. |
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| cosmicdancer |
Yes, I remember telling myself that. But the truth is, I would sacrifice myself for my kids - gladly. |
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| AhmedBahgat |
again you are talking this life in the hearfater we should wait and see on the hearfater what you and them are going to do possibly your children may need to scarify you to save themselevs (god forbids) salam |
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| HomoErectus |
Nice slip here !!!!!!
Salami [hungarian please !] Salametti also [but they are italian !] . |
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| AhmedBahgat |
[quote="HomoErectus"]
dismissed |
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| HomoErectus |
you're dismissed as a whole... On another level, I always enjoy talking to you - honestly - pure fun ! . |
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