Archive for FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT BREAK THE CHAINS OF IGNORANCE AND FEAR
 


       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an
AhmedBahgat

Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

Salam Muslim brothers and sisters

I have noticed since 9/11 that most Muslims use the following verse to defend against the false accusation that the Quran encourages killing the innocents, let’s have a look:

For this reason did We have ordained on the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for another soul or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

[The Quran ; 5:32]

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاء تْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي الأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ (32)

-> Obvioulsy the verse above is not directed at the believers, can you see what it says at the beginning: مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ , Min Ajl Zalik Katabna Ala Bani Israel, i.e. For this reason did We have ordained on the children of Israel, i.e. what was ordained by Allah was SPECIFIC for the children of Israel, which is: that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for another soul or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men , most certainly that this verse is not ordained on the Muslims directly, while I agree that it applies to every human on earth indirectly, yet it can’t be used to refute the false accusation against the great Quran, what you should use is the following verse which is ordained on the believers not Bani Israel:

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir an authority: but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the divine law).

[The Quran ; 17:33]

وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ وَمَن قُتِلَ مَظْلُومًا فَقَدْ جَعَلْنَا لِوَلِيِّهِ سُلْطَانًا فَلاَ يُسْرِف فِّي الْقَتْلِ إِنَّهُ كَانَ مَنْصُورًا (33)

-> See how celar is the command to the believers: وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ , Wa La Taqttilu Al Nafs Allati Harram Allah Illa Bi Al Haqq, i.e. Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause., and if anyone killed another innocent human then Allah has ordained that the deceased family to force the Qisas, i.e. killing the one who killed, if they wish: And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir an authority, that heir (the deceased family) should not exceed the limit in forcing the Qisas, i.e. only the one who killed should be killed: but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the divine law).


Salam
Tvebak

Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace



Hello

Then they should kill the soldiers who came to fight them in their lands, not kill innocent men, women and children, THIS IS WHAT THE 17:33 SAID:

AUTHORITY TO KILL WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE LIMIT

Cheers
BMZ

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.
BMZ

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.


This IS the real side of Islam, A_B. The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls. Evil or Very Mad Wish you were in my home on that day and you would have seen BMZ's family and friends crying, while watching the destruction on television.

BMZ
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace



Hello

Then they should kill the soldiers who came to fight them in their lands, not kill innocent men, women and children, THIS IS WHAT THE 17:33 SAID:

AUTHORITY TO KILL WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE LIMIT

Cheers


Hello

Well it's a case of interpretation. I like your interpretation and view on it better, as A_B is saying, than others which we would be able to find on the internet.

cheers and peace
Sanitarium

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

BMZ wrote:
The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls.

BMZ


Now come on BMZ; you know this isn't true! The media says "Islam is peace!" Those are "Radical Muslims".

I am glad to read your posts here.

-Sani
BMZ

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

Sanitarium wrote:
BMZ wrote:
The international media circus presents Muslims as heartless souls.

BMZ


Now come on BMZ; you know this isn't true! The media says "Islam is peace!" Those are "Radical Muslims".

I am glad to read your posts here.

-Sani


Herein lies the mother of all problems, Sani.

We don't see the International Media Circus (IMC) reporting that Judaism is peace, Christianity is peace, Hinduism is peace, etc.

We also do not see the IMC, reporting that Judaism is peaceful, Christianity is peaceful, Hinduism is people, etc.

Why must they report Islam is a peaceful religion? All religions teach peace but whether the adherents maintained that or not, is another story. In my view, it is wrong to say that such and such religion is peaceful.
Sanitarium

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

BMZ wrote:

Herein lies the mother of all problems, Sani.

We don't see the International Media Circus (IMC) reporting that Judaism is peace, Christianity is peace, Hinduism is peace, etc.

We also do not see the IMC, reporting that Judaism is peaceful, Christianity is peaceful, Hinduism is people, etc.

Why must they report Islam is a peaceful religion? All religions teach peace but whether the adherents maintained that or not, is another story. In my view, it is wrong to say that such and such religion is peaceful.


Yes I agree that the Media singles out Islam as a "religion of peace", but I believe they do that to assuage doubts about the nature of Islam. Most of the time we hear of <such and such a suicide attack> or a <bombing> or many other things done by Muslims (misguided or not). Then we have Muslims stepping up to say that they are "radical Muslims" and "Islam is actually a religion of peace."

So in face of all the violence done by followers of Islam we need to keep being reminded that Islam is peace. That is why the media does it; and I know you and I do not agree on this, but also because the Media is ignorant about the true nature of Islam. To my understanding, the "radicals" are actually fundamentalists, doing what they are supposed to be doing.

But that is a discussion for another time.

Thanks

-Sani
Raza

AhmedBahgat, you are so correct on that, but I always the "people of Israel" referred to us, since the word Israel means "God rules" or "God judges".
Raza

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ

Eye for an Eye, tooth for a tooth.
It was provoked.
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

cooolway wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ

Eye for an Eye, tooth for a tooth.
It was provoked.


No, no mate!

BMZ was on the right track. Solider to soldier is an eye for an eye, not a soldier for a pregnant woman trying to check her shares in the stock market!
AhmedBahgat

cooolway wrote:
AhmedBahgat, you are so correct on that, but I always the "people of Israel" referred to us, since the word Israel means "God rules" or "God judges".


The word Israel is a human name

i.e. the children of Israel are the descendants of a human named Israel

cheers
All_Brains

Quote:
Over the past three thousand years, the name "Israel" has meant in common and religious usage both the Land of Israel and the entire Jewish nation. The name originated from a verse in the Bible (Genesis, 32:28 ) where Jacob is renamed Israel after successfully wrestling with an angel of God.[17] Commentators differ on the meaning of the name. Some say the name comes from the verb śarar ("to rule, be strong, have authority over"), thereby making the name mean "God rules" or "God judges".[18] Other possible meanings include "the prince of God" (from the King James Version) or "El fights/struggles".[19] Regardless of the precise meaning of the name, the biblical nation fathered by Jacob thus became the "Children of Israel" or the "Israelites".

The first historical mention of the word "Israel" is in the Merneptah Stele of ancient Egypt (dated the late 13th century BCE), although scholars disagree on whether it refers to a people or a homeland.[20] The modern country was named Medinat Yisrael, or the State of Israel, after other proposed names, including Eretz Israel, Zion, and Judea, were rejected.[21] In the early weeks of independence, the government chose the term "Israeli" to denote a citizen of Israel, with the formal announcement made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Moshe Sharett.[22]
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
Quote:
Over the past three thousand years, the name "Israel" has meant in common and religious usage both the Land of Israel and the entire Jewish nation. The name originated from a verse in the Bible (Genesis, 32:28 ) where Jacob is renamed Israel after successfully wrestling with an angel of God.[17] Commentators differ on the meaning of the name. Some say the name comes from the verb śarar ("to rule, be strong, have authority over"), thereby making the name mean "God rules" or "God judges".[18] Other possible meanings include "the prince of God" (from the King James Version) or "El fights/struggles".[19] Regardless of the precise meaning of the name, the biblical nation fathered by Jacob thus became the "Children of Israel" or the "Israelites".

The first historical mention of the word "Israel" is in the Merneptah Stele of ancient Egypt (dated the late 13th century BCE), although scholars disagree on whether it refers to a people or a homeland.[20] The modern country was named Medinat Yisrael, or the State of Israel, after other proposed names, including Eretz Israel, Zion, and Judea, were rejected.[21] In the early weeks of independence, the government chose the term "Israeli" to denote a citizen of Israel, with the formal announcement made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Moshe Sharett.[22]



Hello A_B

According to the Quran Israel is a human

cheers
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Quote:
Over the past three thousand years, the name "Israel" has meant in common and religious usage both the Land of Israel and the entire Jewish nation. The name originated from a verse in the Bible (Genesis, 32:28 ) where Jacob is renamed Israel after successfully wrestling with an angel of God.[17] Commentators differ on the meaning of the name. Some say the name comes from the verb śarar ("to rule, be strong, have authority over"), thereby making the name mean "God rules" or "God judges".[18] Other possible meanings include "the prince of God" (from the King James Version) or "El fights/struggles".[19] Regardless of the precise meaning of the name, the biblical nation fathered by Jacob thus became the "Children of Israel" or the "Israelites".

The first historical mention of the word "Israel" is in the Merneptah Stele of ancient Egypt (dated the late 13th century BCE), although scholars disagree on whether it refers to a people or a homeland.[20] The modern country was named Medinat Yisrael, or the State of Israel, after other proposed names, including Eretz Israel, Zion, and Judea, were rejected.[21] In the early weeks of independence, the government chose the term "Israeli" to denote a citizen of Israel, with the formal announcement made by Minister of Foreign Affairs Moshe Sharett.[22]



Hello A_B

According to the Quran Israel is a human

cheers


Hello Ahmed

That's the biblical story too. Jacob was renamed by God "Israel" in his 90's following a battle with an Angel! Shocked
AhmedBahgat

Hello A_B

Sure, it seems I misunderstood you

It is commonly known that the people may assign people names to cities, roads, bridges, etc etc, the fact stays the same that the name originated from a human name

Cheers
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

Sure, it seems I misunderstood you

It is commonly known that the people may assign people names to cities, roads, bridges, etc etc, the fact stays the same that the name originated from a human name

Cheers


Sure! You can easily spot the El at the end of the name, which is North semitic for the pagan chief God named (EL).

Names like Ishmael, Gabriel and Israel are all derived from the chief pagan God (EL).

This begs the question, why would all the 3 Abrahamic faiths acknowledged names that honor a pagan God???
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

Sure, it seems I misunderstood you

It is commonly known that the people may assign people names to cities, roads, bridges, etc etc, the fact stays the same that the name originated from a human name

Cheers


Sure! You can easily spot the El at the end of the name, which is North semitic for the pagan chief God named (EL).

Names like Ishmael, Gabriel and Israel are all derived from the chief pagan God (EL).

This begs the question, why would all the 3 Abrahamic faiths acknowledged names that honor a pagan God???


that is a silly question A_B and I have to dismiss it

you can not pick two bloody letters from a name and link them to totally different thing, this is stupid man

salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam All

When I posted this thread on Faithfreedom web site (FFI), which is directed to my Muslims brothers and sisters to inform them with a common mistake that many of them commit, the kafirs of FFI joined the thread trying hard to disturb the message of my thread, so instead of them agreeing or disagreeing with what I said, they bloody diverted the subject with yet their usual crap that Mohammed is quoting a Jewish Rabbi who said the same in year 200 CE, however the idiots failed to provide evidences that their man made Talmod was translated into Arabic so Mohammed would have managed to read it and steal from it, in fact they even failed to provide an english translation to their man made Talmod, this confirms that 1400 years ago there was no Arabic version of their man made Talmod, the way it should happen then that this Rabbi have taught Mohammed as such, but that is impossible because the Rabbi is not an Arab to teach Mohammed in his language whatever, in fact the Quran exposes such stupidity by the kafirs (on FFI like yezzee and brainout) , let me show it to you:

And certainly We know that they say: Only a mortal teaches him. The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue.

[The Quran ; 16:103]

وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّهُمْ يَقُولُونَ إِنَّمَا يُعَلِّمُهُ بَشَرٌ لِّسَانُ الَّذِي يُلْحِدُونَ إِلَيْهِ أَعْجَمِيٌّ وَهَذَا لِسَانٌ عَرَبِيٌّ مُّبِينٌ (103)

-> See how 16:103 is talking about the likes of FFI kafirs brainout and yezee: And certainly We know that they say: Only a mortal teaches him. The tongue of him whom they reproach is barbarous, and this is clear Arabic tongue., the word ‘THEY’ is referring to the likes of brainout and yezee, SEE HOW ACCURATE THE QURAN IS

Indeed the Quran always have the last laugh (metaphor) against the ignorant and deluded kafirs of FFI

Salam
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

Sure, it seems I misunderstood you

It is commonly known that the people may assign people names to cities, roads, bridges, etc etc, the fact stays the same that the name originated from a human name

Cheers


Sure! You can easily spot the El at the end of the name, which is North semitic for the pagan chief God named (EL).

Names like Ishmael, Gabriel and Israel are all derived from the chief pagan God (EL).

This begs the question, why would all the 3 Abrahamic faiths acknowledged names that honor a pagan God???


that is a silly question A_B and I have to dismiss it

you can not pick two bloody letters from a name and link them to totally different thing, this is stupid man

salam


Hi Ahmed

I know Hebrew!

Here is the reference to what I said if you don't believe me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_referring_to_El
AhmedBahgat

Hello A_B

again it's irrelevent, you should also know that there and an angel named "Malik" and he is a mighty angel too yet we donlt see the el in its name

i still have to dismiss your argument

Cheers
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

again it's irrelevent, you should also know that there and an angel named "Malik" and he is a mighty angel too yet we donlt see the el in its name

i still have to dismiss your argument

Cheers


And you're dismissing this argument on the basis of..........?

Well, the argument is not against Islam only. It also puts a shadow of doubt on the Judaism and Christianity.

As a manner of fact I am going to open a dedicated thread for this.

I would like to hear Brainout's biblical justification of this.
AhmedBahgat

On the basis the human names or angel names can not be interprted

cheers
All_Brains

AhmedBahgat wrote:
On the basis the human names or angel names can not be interprted

cheers


So names like Muhammad and Victor have no meaning and can't be interpreted?

Do you know the meaning of Ishmael and Gabriel?

All the above names have meanings and are derived from a noun, verb or two attributes put together.

If Yahweh, Jesus and Allah named their angels after (EL) the chief pagan semitic God, don't you find that dodgy?
AhmedBahgat

All_Brains wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
On the basis the human names or angel names can not be interprted

cheers


So names like Muhammad and Victor have no meaning and can't be interpreted?


Absolutely, this is because we have Muhammed the great prophet and we may also have another mohammed who is a killer and a kafir, both names mean nothing but their names

All_Brains wrote:
Do you know the meaning of Ishmael and Gabriel?


Of course

Ismael = the name of a great prophet

Gabriel = the name of a great angel

All_Brains wrote:
All the above names have meanings and are derived from a noun, verb or two attributes put together.



and they ended up being names to objects

All_Brains wrote:
If Yahweh, Jesus and Allah named their angels after (EL) the chief pagan semitic God, don't you find that dodgy?


I have to dismisss the above because I reject that you group jesus with Allah or Hahweh

Salam
Raza

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
cooolway wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ

Eye for an Eye, tooth for a tooth.
It was provoked.


No, no mate!

BMZ was on the right track. Solider to soldier is an eye for an eye, not a soldier for a pregnant woman trying to check her shares in the stock market!

Osama could have attacked the resident building to maximize the killing of innocent civilians, but he didn't, he attacked a government building.
Madrid Bombing is completely against Islam in my opinion.
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

cooolway wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
cooolway wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ

Eye for an Eye, tooth for a tooth.
It was provoked.


No, no mate!

BMZ was on the right track. Solider to soldier is an eye for an eye, not a soldier for a pregnant woman trying to check her shares in the stock market!

Osama could have attacked the resident building to maximize the killing of innocent civilians, but he didn't, he attacked a government building.
Madrid Bombing is completely against Islam in my opinion.


Government building? These are private commercial establishments Raza and the people who worked there are unarmed civilians!!
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hello Ahmed

But believers who would go as far to commit terrorism, or any other atrocities, would argue that their actions is not "wrongfully". I've stumbled on argument about USA having soldiers in Saudi Arabia or any other places in what people calls the "muslim world" as justification enough for fx 9/11. So the argument would be that it happens for a "just case". The case being islam.

Cheers and peace



Hello

Then they should kill the soldiers who came to fight them in their lands, not kill innocent men, women and children, THIS IS WHAT THE 17:33 SAID:

AUTHORITY TO KILL WITHOUT EXCEEDING THE LIMIT

Cheers

Whatever Ahmed. It is the islamic limit that is the problem here. The limit is too lax and too inclusive.

And to make it worse, it describes killing and cutting limbs, I can see a guy getting his limbs cut, limping on one foot with one hand out of his city into the desert.

And to make it even worse, it gives islam the duty to be the punisher. Jews were ordered to do good, and respect life. And muslims are sent just to punish. The verse sucks.
Baal

What makes matters even worse. Is whenever muslims want to bring a good 'enlightening' verse from their book, they bring 5:32. Why? Because the book lacks enlightening verses. The islamic apologists are FORCED to use 5:32 for lack of better options.
BMZ

Baal wrote:
What makes matters even worse. Is whenever muslims want to bring a good 'enlightening' verse from their book, they bring 5:32. Why? Because the book lacks enlightening verses. The islamic apologists are FORCED to use 5:32 for lack of better options.


Baal,

I don't know what enlightening means to you. Hence I would not discuss enlightenment with you.

In a single struggling gasp of breath, you call out three words, namely: Muslims, Islamists and Islamic Apologists.

Here is a simple test for your integrity. Let me put down two statements of mine publicly here and you tell me, which category would you place me in:

1. Osama bin Ladin did a great wrong. Instead of attacking WTC, he should have chosen US military targets in the region. Even if he chose the targets in the US, he should have chosen military ones.

2. Suicide bombing is a perfect tool against any invading or attacking Force but it should not be used against any civilians.

Where would you place me in?  Laughing  

Now, I have a question to you. As an ex-Muslim or a human, do you support the US invasion of Iraq, which destroyed a country, it's infrastructure and ruined so many lives? You don't need verses to give your honest and frank opinion.

BMZ
All_Brains

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
What makes matters even worse. Is whenever muslims want to bring a good 'enlightening' verse from their book, they bring 5:32. Why? Because the book lacks enlightening verses. The islamic apologists are FORCED to use 5:32 for lack of better options.


Baal,

I don't know what enlightening means to you. Hence I would not discuss enlightenment with you.

In a single struggling gasp of breath, you call out three words, namely: Muslims, Islamists and Islamic Apologists.

Here is a simple test for your integrity. Let me put down two statements of mine publicly here and you tell me, which category would you place me in:

1. Osama bin Ladin did a great wrong. Instead of attacking WTC, he should have chosen US military targets in the region. Even if he chose the targets in the US, he should have chosen military ones.

2. Suicide bombing is a perfect tool against any invading or attacking Force but it should not be used against any civilians.

Where would you place me in?  Laughing  

Now, I have a question to you. As an ex-Muslim or a human, do you support the US invasion of Iraq, which destroyed a country, it's infrastructure and ruined so many lives? You don't need verses to give your honest and frank opinion.

BMZ


If I may please give you my impression of you.

I believe you subscribe to category 1.

And I do believe that the invasion of Iraq by the USA was and still is a great mistake!
Baal

Hello BMZ, I really think both options are the exact same.  

Now I will answer your leading question. The attack on Iraq is a grave mistake, I said that even before America moved in. Iraq had no Qaeda before Bush walked in. In fact, it was the Second largest enemy of Qaeda in the world, after Iran. Now Iraq is filled with Qaeda (And Persian Shiia influence).

However all Bush was after was oil. Not killing hundreds of thousands of iraqis. Who cares, give it to him, at least until you rebuild yourself. Now he is stuck in a sectarian war.
ygalg

Raza wrote:
but I always the "people of Israel" referred to us, since the word Israel means "God rules" or "God judges".

no, it refers to us. it means 'G-d's ministry'
ygalg

All_Brains wrote:

Sure! You can easily spot the El at the end of the name, which is North semitic for the pagan chief  God named (EL).

Names like Ishmael, Gabriel and Israel are all derived from the chief pagan God (EL).

This begs the question, why would all the 3 Abrahamic faiths acknowledged names that honor a pagan God???

EL is a general term. not a specific entity.
ygalg

Baal wrote:
What makes matters even worse. Is whenever muslims want to bring a good 'enlightening' verse from their book, they bring 5:32. Why? Because the book lacks enlightening verses. The islamic apologists are FORCED to use 5:32 for lack of better options.

Baal you 'hit the spot'
what is 'enlightening' hap to be of jewish origin Rolling Eyes

Ahmed correct to say, the verse does not support 'Islam is peace'
that cause it support 'defaming' jews. Confused
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!

Well, when you say that you'r happy to see this side of ISLAM and Muslims.
I understand that you believe that there is a good side in Islam. That is definetely not true.
As for Muslims, yes I agree that there are those who are not violent. I have written an essay bout that some time ago:
                                                 THREE TYPES OF MUSLIMS

SECULARISTS are Muslims who do not have a knowledge of the contents of the Koran and only know a verse of two to justify enjoying their life such as: “Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world” (Surah Al-Kahf 18-46)

MODERATES know the Koran but seek to make their faith relevant to modern life. They try to reconcile the contradicting verses in the Koran in such a way that Muslims may tolerate Jews and Christians living among them. They emphasize the verses that came to the Prophet Muhammad when he was weak militarily and in need of the Christians and Jews: “So, if you (Mohammad) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you then ask these who are reading the Book (the Torah & the Gospel) before you. Verily the truth has come to you from thy Lord. “ Surah Yunus 10-94  
“Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikun (unbelievers) and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say:’We are Christians.’ Surah Al-Maidah 5:82
and surah 2:62…etc
When needed Muslim clerics use Koranic verses including those which are kind to Jews and Christians to paint a glowing picture of Islam as a religion of peace, brotherhood, modesty, morality, self-discipline and family values. But the true face of Islam is revealed in the Koranic verses calling Muslims to Jihad against all non-Muslims.

FUNDAMENTALISTTS are those who want to apply the more extreme verses of the Koran to the letter. These verses came to Muhammad after he was strong and after he realized that the Christians and Jews will not follow him:
a)”O prophet Muhammad urge the believers (Muslims) to fight “ Surah 8:65
  “Jihad  (holy fighting in Allah’s cause) is ordained for you.” Surah 2:216
b)”O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors.” Surah 5:51
c)”Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews & Christians) until they pay the Jisyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29
d) The Koran commands Muslims to fight non-Muslims until they exterminate all other religions and Islam would be the only religion in the world. See Surah 2:193 and surah 8:39.
e) The Koran declares that Muslims who fight and die in battle are promised forgiveness (and that’s they are called martyrs) and sensual luxurious life in Paradise:
“Gardens and vineyards and young  full-breasted virgins of equal age and a full cup of wine.” Surah 78-32-34  Also see surahs 52-17-20,22; 56-31-37; 3:157; 9:111
f) “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hand and feet be cut from opposite sides…” surah 5:33 Also see surahs 8:12-14; 61:4; 9:5  
Now the big question is: if you meet a Muslim, under which category would he be in?

As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!


Mate, this freak has reached the max level of itch, he should be dismissed
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

[/quote]

Mate, this freak has reached the max level of itch, he should be dismissed[/quote]

Hello Ahmed

Hope all is OK with you and the family.
All_Brains

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


LOL mate, how kind you are

well, to be accurate you should tell him:

feel free to express your hatred and ignorance on this web site
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


This is a very good advice.
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


This is a very good advice.

follow up:
The Muslims call me all kind of names WHEN I QUOTE (COPPY) SURAHS FROM THE THEIR KORAN.
HATE IS CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY STATED IN THE KORAN AND WELL DEMONSTRATED BY THE ACTIONS OF THE FOLLOWERS' ACTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

As I mentioned before, I studied the Koran and hadiths and islamic history by imams from al-Azhar in Arabic. This is knowledge.
As a Christian from the Middle East, I suffered the ugly treatment and atrocities of Islam. This is personal experience.

I would say that about 95% of the Muslims in the world DID NOT GO THROUGH THIS kind of EDUCATION AND FELT THE AGONY OF SUCH TREATMENT.

However, they have no problem accuse me of hate.....
Amazing.
But, I am used to that.
BMZ

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


[quote]26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

[quote="BMZ"]
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


Quote:
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ


Can't you people read?
You just repeat the same thing over and over, what you hear fom your ignorant imams.
How many times this verse and a couple of others, where Jesus mentioned the sword Muslims keep repeating?
Some of you might read, but definitely do not understand.
You BMZ are a proof to thet.

I'v already answered that to you and others, many times.
Simply, AGAIN, Jesus was saying that his teachings will cause division in families, BECAUSE SOME WILL ACCEPT HIS TEACHINGS AND OTHERS WILL NOT.
The MESSAGE is clear even to the blind LOVE AND PEACE.
Where the MESSAGE of Mohammad is also clear to the blind HATE, KILL, TERRORIZE, RAPE STEAL......

Try to be honest, just a little. I know that would be very hard for you as Muslim. But, try you might be able to see the light and get out of darkness.
AhmedBahgat

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

[quote="BMZ"]
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


Quote:
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ


Slam dunk
BMZ

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

[quote="AhmedBahgat"]
BMZ wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


Quote:
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ


Slam dunk


Indeed, mate.

ronyvo has not responded yet to the other two posts of mine, dated 29th June.

2 more slam dunks. lol!

Have sent a PM to you on this site.

Salaams
BMZ
ronyvo

Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)

[quote="BMZ"]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
BMZ wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ

BMZ. please don't flatter yourself.
I told you before that I don't have the time to answer the same issue over and over.
The couple of verses that you Muslims are trying very hard to discredit the Bible with, mean that THE MESSAGE JESUS IS TEACHING WILL CAUSE DIVISION IN ONE FAMILY. sOME WILL ACCEPT HIM AND OTHERS WILL NOT.
Is this understood?

Amazing how Muslims in genral using the same thing and get into empty circles. And when they don't get an answer, they claim victory.
This doen't work with me.
I have been there for a very very long time. I know your tactics.
I am wrting in over 6 forums.
Many are asking genuuine questions, they do want to understand and learn.
Those people I go the extra mile with them.

So, GOOD BYE.

Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


Quote:
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ


Slam dunk


Indeed, mate.

ronyvo has not responded yet to the other two posts of mine, dated 29th June.

2 more slam dunks. lol!

Have sent a PM to you on this site.

Salaams
BMZ
Baal

Just logged in , been away for a while, will read the opening post later and reply to it positively or negatively. For now, I can not believe you pulled Ronyvo in with that sword verse. I leave away for couple weeks and you Two revert back to your novice tricks.

The Bible Sword verse is inconsequential. It is a statistical anomaly. When the Mawlahs scoured the NT and tried to find something resembling or justifying islam in it, they had to look very hard to find this sword verse.

So now plz keep statistical anomalies out of conversations in the future and stop wasting the goddamn time. The single sword verse can be interpreted positively when put in context with the rest of the NT. The statistical average of the NT is the best defense and justification for the ONE sword verse in the NT.

To make your (BMZ and AB) position even weaker, the sword verse does NOT abrogate sh1t in the Bible. It does not cancel the dozens of good commands in that book.

As for 5:32, when 500 muslim 'scholar' came together to condemn 7/7. They did a pisspoor job to condemn the bombing and the BEST verse they could bring forward was 5:32.

5:32 is the BEST verse they could agree on bringing forward. A disgusting verse carried forward by a disgusting group of liars.

Now I will go through AB's opening post later tonight and give an appropriate response. Until then, I hope you will stop discussing statistical anomalies with an interpretation that flies in the face of the rest of the book you quoted this 'sword verse' from.
All_Brains

Baal wrote:
Just logged in , been away for a while, will read the opening post later and reply to it positively or negatively. For now, I can not believe you pulled Ronyvo in with that sword verse. I leave away for couple weeks and you Two revert back to your novice tricks.

The Bible Sword verse is inconsequential. It is a statistical anomaly. When the Mawlahs scoured the NT and tried to find something resembling or justifying islam in it, they had to look very hard to find this sword verse.

So now plz keep statistical anomalies out of conversations in the future and stop wasting the goddamn time. The single sword verse can be interpreted positively when put in context with the rest of the NT. The statistical average of the NT is the best defense and justification for the ONE sword verse in the NT.

To make your (BMZ and AB) position even weaker, the sword verse does NOT abrogate sh1t in the Bible. It does not cancel the dozens of good commands in that book.

As for 5:32, when 500 muslim 'scholar' came together to condemn 7/7. They did a pisspoor job to condemn the bombing and the BEST verse they could bring forward was 5:32.

5:32 is the BEST verse they could agree on bringing forward. A disgusting verse carried forward by a disgusting group of liars.

Now I will go through AB's opening post later tonight and give an appropriate response. Until then, I hope you will stop discussing statistical anomalies with an interpretation that flies in the face of the rest of the book you quoted this 'sword verse' from.


Welcome back! Very Happy
BMZ

Baal wrote:
Just logged in , been away for a while, will read the opening post later and reply to it positively or negatively. For now, I can not believe you pulled Ronyvo in with that sword verse. I leave away for couple weeks and you Two revert back to your novice tricks.

The Bible Sword verse is inconsequential. It is a statistical anomaly. When the Mawlahs scoured the NT and tried to find something resembling or justifying islam in it, they had to look very hard to find this sword verse.

So now plz keep statistical anomalies out of conversations in the future and stop wasting the goddamn time. The single sword verse can be interpreted positively when put in context with the rest of the NT. The statistical average of the NT is the best defense and justification for the ONE sword verse in the NT.

To make your (BMZ and AB) position even weaker, the sword verse does NOT abrogate sh1t in the Bible. It does not cancel the dozens of good commands in that book.

As for 5:32, when 500 muslim 'scholar' came together to condemn 7/7. They did a pisspoor job to condemn the bombing and the BEST verse they could bring forward was 5:32.

5:32 is the BEST verse they could agree on bringing forward. A disgusting verse carried forward by a disgusting group of liars.

Now I will go through AB's opening post later tonight and give an appropriate response. Until then, I hope you will stop discussing statistical anomalies with an interpretation that flies in the face of the rest of the book you quoted this 'sword verse' from.



Don't waste your time. The topic you are talking about is stale. That has been done. I have condemned Osama and the likes, so don't bring up 911 and 711. etc.

The issue being discussed is the foul language of the biblical Jesus. I was referring to the HATE taught by Jesus, the son of Mary. The man could have used better words to call people to God. His style of speech and his messages gave brith to a hate that resulted in massive killing and burning of people over the darkest history of Christianity for fifteen centuries.

There are two possibilities. Either Jesus spoke that way or the crude writer of the gospel wrote that way.

The verse clearly shows the biblical Jesus asking people to hate everyone and love only him and his God. He does not want the Christians even to live. He wants them there.  The verse is crystal clear.  It was the start of anti-Semitism to come after the destruction of his 'father's' Temple, cursed by him.  

If you have read Qur'aan throughly, you will find Muhammad conveyed a better message than Jesus' hateful approach. Have you read that verse which calls people to God and outclasses and outshines the ugly words said by Jesus?

If you are going to put the Christian spin over this, then apply the same for the "Fight in the cause of God.", given to Muslims when they were being attacked and killed by the pagan Meccans.

What is good for the Christians' goose should also be good for the Muslim gander.  Laughing  Laughing  

BMZ
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Just logged in , been away for a while, will read the opening post later and reply to it positively or negatively. For now, I can not believe you pulled Ronyvo in with that sword verse. I leave away for couple weeks and you Two revert back to your novice tricks.

The Bible Sword verse is inconsequential. It is a statistical anomaly. When the Mawlahs scoured the NT and tried to find something resembling or justifying islam in it, they had to look very hard to find this sword verse.

So now plz keep statistical anomalies out of conversations in the future and stop wasting the goddamn time. The single sword verse can be interpreted positively when put in context with the rest of the NT. The statistical average of the NT is the best defense and justification for the ONE sword verse in the NT.

To make your (BMZ and AB) position even weaker, the sword verse does NOT abrogate sh1t in the Bible. It does not cancel the dozens of good commands in that book.

As for 5:32, when 500 muslim 'scholar' came together to condemn 7/7. They did a pisspoor job to condemn the bombing and the BEST verse they could bring forward was 5:32.

5:32 is the BEST verse they could agree on bringing forward. A disgusting verse carried forward by a disgusting group of liars.

Now I will go through AB's opening post later tonight and give an appropriate response. Until then, I hope you will stop discussing statistical anomalies with an interpretation that flies in the face of the rest of the book you quoted this 'sword verse' from.



Don't waste your time. The topic you are talking about is stale. That has been done. I have condemned Osama and the likes, so don't bring up 911 and 711. etc.

The issue being discussed is the foul language of the biblical Jesus. I was referring to the HATE taught by Jesus, the son of Mary. The man could have used better words to call people to God. His style of speech and his messages gave brith to a hate that resulted in massive killing and burning of people over the darkest history of Christianity for fifteen centuries.

There are two possibilities. Either Jesus spoke that way or the crude writer of the gospel wrote that way.

The verse clearly shows the biblical Jesus asking people to hate everyone and love only him and his God. He does not want the Christians even to live. He wants them there.  The verse is crystal clear.  It was the start of anti-Semitism to come after the destruction of his 'father's' Temple, cursed by him.  

If you have read Qur'aan throughly, you will find Muhammad conveyed a better message than Jesus' hateful approach. Have you read that verse which calls people to God and outclasses and outshines the ugly words said by Jesus?

If you are going to put the Christian spin over this, then apply the same for the "Fight in the cause of God.", given to Muslims when they were being attacked and killed by the pagan Meccans.

What is good for the Christians' goose should also be good for the Muslim gander.  Laughing  Laughing  

BMZ

Referring to language used? You are referring to nothing. You are referring to a statistical anomaly and even that anomaly you are interpreting in a way that flies in the face of the rest of the book. This is the best you can put forward.

And I do not care much about who or what *you* condemn when you get personally squeezed on the forum. I cared more about the 500 islamic scholars that *publicly* came out and made a crappy open-for-interpretation islamic apology that shamed me and all Arabs muslims and non-muslims. And the verse they used was 5:32. Now in the UK they are kicking out people who had been working there for Five Years+ . Christians & Muslims, people who graduated from British universities are being sent home in the hundreds of Thousands. So I am really glad you apologized for 7/7 BMZ. And I can not believe the idiots used 5:32. But hey, what else could they have used from those 6286 verses?


Now Stop wasting the Goddamn time and holding on to a straw. Let the straw go an go back to concentrate on more useful things.
Baal

As to answer Ahmad Bahgat's Opening Statement:

"So do not kill a Soul except by Truth 'Hak'"

Few problems with that Ahmed:

* What about those who do not follow the True Religion 'Deen Al Hak'"
* What about those who are not killed, only get their limbs chopped on either side and exiled from their land?

The condition set by islam to follow the Hak is disgusting and can only lead to violence and solotheism. A condition where everyone walks around and feel entitled to the only truth. A condition where a Sunni will burn the farm of another Sunni. And then ally himself with the Sunni to hit the American. And then ally himself with the American to his the Shiia. We do not want solotheism. We do not need this sh1t.

As usual, your interpretation of 5:32 is the best a 'search-engine' jockey like yourself can come up with.

Cheers.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
As to answer Ahmad Bahgat's Opening Statement:

"So do not kill a Soul except by Truth 'Hak'"

Few problems with that Ahmed:

* What about those who do not follow the True Religion 'Deen Al Hak'"


Salam from London, Bal

firstly the law above should apply in a Muslim land that implement the Islamic Saria as stated in the Quran, the law should apply on all residents living in such country regardless what religion they follow

Baal wrote:
* What about those who are not killed, only get their limbs chopped on either side and exiled from their land?


Well, an eye for an eye, this means if I chop off someone leg in a violenet encounter and I'm the perpetrator then I should have my leg chopped off too

Baal wrote:
The condition set by islam to follow the Hak is disgusting and can only lead to violence and solotheism.



You are damn confused, Bal, the word Al Haq in the verse does not mean following the religion of Al haq (Islam) rather it means that we can't noot apply the eye for an eye rule unless we have Haq to apply on the perpetrators,

Baal wrote:
A condition where everyone walks around and feel entitled to the only truth. A condition where a Sunni will burn the farm of another Sunni. And then ally himself with the Sunni to hit the American. And then ally himself with the American to his the Shiia. We do not want solotheism. We do not need this sh1t.


Your statement above is based on your confusion regarding the context meaning of the wird Al Haq when it comes to implementing the eye for an eye ruke, this rule still have exceptions, if the victim or the family of the victim (in case the victim is dead) forgive the perptrator(s) then the eye for an eye may not be applied

Baal wrote:

As usual, your interpretation of 5:32 is the best a 'search-engine' jockey like yourself can come up with.

Cheers.


dismissed

cheers
BMZ

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Just logged in , been away for a while, will read the opening post later and reply to it positively or negatively. For now, I can not believe you pulled Ronyvo in with that sword verse. I leave away for couple weeks and you Two revert back to your novice tricks.

The Bible Sword verse is inconsequential. It is a statistical anomaly. When the Mawlahs scoured the NT and tried to find something resembling or justifying islam in it, they had to look very hard to find this sword verse.

So now plz keep statistical anomalies out of conversations in the future and stop wasting the goddamn time. The single sword verse can be interpreted positively when put in context with the rest of the NT. The statistical average of the NT is the best defense and justification for the ONE sword verse in the NT.

To make your (BMZ and AB) position even weaker, the sword verse does NOT abrogate sh1t in the Bible. It does not cancel the dozens of good commands in that book.

As for 5:32, when 500 muslim 'scholar' came together to condemn 7/7. They did a pisspoor job to condemn the bombing and the BEST verse they could bring forward was 5:32.

5:32 is the BEST verse they could agree on bringing forward. A disgusting verse carried forward by a disgusting group of liars.

Now I will go through AB's opening post later tonight and give an appropriate response. Until then, I hope you will stop discussing statistical anomalies with an interpretation that flies in the face of the rest of the book you quoted this 'sword verse' from.



Don't waste your time. The topic you are talking about is stale. That has been done. I have condemned Osama and the likes, so don't bring up 911 and 711. etc.

The issue being discussed is the foul language of the biblical Jesus. I was referring to the HATE taught by Jesus, the son of Mary. The man could have used better words to call people to God. His style of speech and his messages gave brith to a hate that resulted in massive killing and burning of people over the darkest history of Christianity for fifteen centuries.

There are two possibilities. Either Jesus spoke that way or the crude writer of the gospel wrote that way.

The verse clearly shows the biblical Jesus asking people to hate everyone and love only him and his God. He does not want the Christians even to live. He wants them there.  The verse is crystal clear.  It was the start of anti-Semitism to come after the destruction of his 'father's' Temple, cursed by him.  

If you have read Qur'aan throughly, you will find Muhammad conveyed a better message than Jesus' hateful approach. Have you read that verse which calls people to God and outclasses and outshines the ugly words said by Jesus?

If you are going to put the Christian spin over this, then apply the same for the "Fight in the cause of God.", given to Muslims when they were being attacked and killed by the pagan Meccans.

What is good for the Christians' goose should also be good for the Muslim gander.  Laughing  Laughing  

BMZ

Referring to language used? You are referring to nothing. You are referring to a statistical anomaly and even that anomaly you are interpreting in a way that flies in the face of the rest of the book. This is the best you can put forward.

And I do not care much about who or what *you* condemn when you get personally squeezed on the forum. I cared more about the 500 islamic scholars that *publicly* came out and made a crappy open-for-interpretation islamic apology that shamed me and all Arabs muslims and non-muslims. And the verse they used was 5:32. Now in the UK they are kicking out people who had been working there for Five Years+ . Christians & Muslims, people who graduated from British universities are being sent home in the hundreds of Thousands. So I am really glad you apologized for 7/7 BMZ. And I can not believe the idiots used 5:32. But hey, what else could they have used from those 6286 verses?


Now Stop wasting the Goddamn time and holding on to a straw. Let the straw go an go back to concentrate on more useful things.



Can you try to be coherent, Baal? What exactly is your gripe? What is your point?

I have been to the UK just a few months ago and I found nothing against Islam and the Muslims. I stayed in Goalders Green, where all the British Jews and other Brits were nice to me.

It is an internet BS that you guys harp or the Brits, in your view, are hypocrites.

Of course, I did not hurt any Brit by pointing out that they are mainly responsible for all the mess in the world.

BMZ
Baal

The British government is outwardly very very friendly. Even the population is put in a drugged dhimmi-like state. Inwardly they have taken severe steps to close their doors.

Now, back on subject, I could not believe that when 500+ scholars came together to put forward a lame apology for 7/7 (something like they should not have blown up the wrong people), the only verse they came forward with was a 'portion' of 5:32.
Anti-Jihad

Baal wrote:
The British government is outwardly very very friendly. Even the population is put in a drugged dhimmi-like state. Inwardly they have taken severe steps to close their doors.

Now, back on subject, I could not believe that when 500+ scholars came together to put forward a lame apology for 7/7 (something like they should not have blown up the wrong people), the only verse they came forward with was a 'portion' of 5:32.


I hope what you say is true, although I disagree, UK is a bloody dhimmi country

       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum
Home|Home|Home|Home|HomeHome|Home|Home|Home|Home