Archive for FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT BREAK THE CHAINS OF IGNORANCE AND FEAR
 


       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah
AhmedBahgat

Sunan Ibn Magih

Salam brothers and sisters

I decided to look further in the nine books which Al Mushrikoon made next to the Quran in defiance to the clear order from Allah that we should rule with what Allah has sent down, and in defiance to Allah words that we should never seek other than Allah for a judge, ironically their stupid actions were also in defiance †to the clear order from the prophet not to write anything he says but the Quran and if they did, they should have deleted it, see how clear that those Mushrikoon did not and do not OBEY Allah and His messenger. Well there is far more to say, we have 9 books of hearsay that we must go through page by page.

I will start with Ibn Magih book, last night I read many chapters, †however when I looked at the sub index of the introduction chapter, something caught my eyes, let me show it to you in a screen shot from the hearsay Arabic web site:




The highlighted (in red squares) sub chapters under the Introduction chapter are all dedicated to promote and praise the Sahaba, each sub chapter is dedicated to one of the Sahaba, there is no need to mention who they are, it is just most of them starting from Abu Bakr

Now, I donít deny the Sahaba good work, in fact I even believe that they did far more good work than what is told to us in the hearsay books, the bottom line is this, whatever they did IS BETWEEN THEM AND ALLAH, we have absolutely nothing to do with it nor even ponder upon it because how we can prove that the hearsay written is truthful?. we will never be able to, we can only wishful think i guess.

Remember in the story when Noah (one of the great and long lived prophets) was believing heart and soul that his son was a good person, when Allah caused his evil son to drown, Noah could not believe it and tried to argue with Allah to why He did not save His son while He told him that his family will be saved, Allah informed him that his son †was evil, and ordered Noah not to ask questions concerning what he has no knowledge about, Noah quickly realized his mistake and repented on the spot and totally forgot about his evil son.

Now what we suppose to do after reading all these chapters praising all those people who lived 1400 years ago? Should we take what Ibn Magih is hearsaying to us for granted?, we never even met Ibn Magih, we canít even know if Ibn Magih was a good or a bad person yet we are required by Al Mushrikoon to take Ibn Magih words for granted that all these people were good.

The problem here that if we look at their history we see that all those people conflicted straight after the prophet died, in fact we are told that after Uthman was killed Aysha and her supporters faught with Ali and his supporters, the two can not be right at the same time. One of the groups must be wrong, or even both were wrong.

See what Iím talking about, we just can not know who was good and who was bad regarding those who lived hundreds of years before us, we canít even know who is calling the self a believer while inside they are not really believers, donít forget that the Quran tells us that Al Mushrikoon never believe that they are Mushrikoon

I will leave you with that for now to ponder upon while I take my children to their schools and head to work, later on inshaalllah I will start by looking at many hadith from Ibn Magih hearsay book

Salam all
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

Just came from work and have about an hour before I pick my son up from his school, I thought I should use it to write this comment then when I come back inshaalllah I will start showing you many hearsay examples from Ibn Magih hearsay and conjectures book

As you have noticed in my first comment that I mentioned Noah and his son,  the reason I did so is to show you that even a great prophet like Noah could not know who is bad and who is good, even if it was a family member who lived with him many years

The following verse is informing us with the order to build the Ark given to Noah:

And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

[The Quran ; 11;37]

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلاَ تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِنَّهُم مُّغْرَقُونَ (37)

-> See, And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, this was not the end of the order, in fact Noah was ordered  another thing as well: and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust, at this moment of time Noah did not know that his son was from among the unjust, in fact he was thinking that his son was a good believer, however Noah was given a hint about those who are unjust, see what Allah said next: surely they shall be drowned., I.e. those who will drown must be unjust. It seems that Noah overlooked such hint from Allah.

Years passed and Noah finished building the ark, in all those years and up to this moment of time Noah still an ignorant regarding the reality of his own son faith:

Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family-- except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.

[The Quran ; 11;40]

حَتَّى إِذَا جَاء أَمْرُنَا وَفَارَ التَّنُّورُ قُلْنَا احْمِلْ فِيهَا مِن كُلٍّ زَوْجَيْنِ اثْنَيْنِ وَأَهْلَكَ إِلاَّ مَن سَبَقَ عَلَيْهِ الْقَوْلُ وَمَنْ آمَنَ وَمَا آمَنَ مَعَهُ إِلاَّ قَلِيلٌ (40)

-> What we should notice that Noah was ordered to take with him, his family, see: We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family, the family members mentioned here are those who believed with him not those who were faking belief, and surely Noah can not know who is fake and who is not, however another hint was given to him, yet he overlooked it again: see whom Allah has exempted from his family: except those against whom the word has already gone forth, i.e. it is about those whom Allah knows their faith reality while Noah could not know that, in fact up to this moment Noah was still  believing hard that his son was one of the believers

In the next two verses, things started to heat up, Noah tried to get his son to board the ark but somehow his son declined and preferred to seek refuge on the summit of a mountain, see how Allah plan is executed while neither Noah nor his son were aware of it:

42: And it moved on with them amid waves like mountains; and Nuh called out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! embark with us and be not with the unbelievers.

43: He said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall protect me from the water. Nuh said: There is no protector today from Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; and a wave intervened between them, so he was of the drowned.

[The Quran ; 11;42-43]

وَهِيَ تَجْرِي بِهِمْ فِي مَوْجٍ كَالْجِبَالِ وَنَادَى نُوحٌ ابْنَهُ وَكَانَ فِي مَعْزِلٍ يَا بُنَيَّ ارْكَب مَّعَنَا وَلاَ تَكُن مَّعَ الْكَافِرِينَ (42)
قَالَ سَآوِي إِلَى جَبَلٍ يَعْصِمُنِي مِنَ الْمَاء قَالَ لاَ عَاصِمَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللّهِ إِلاَّ مَن رَّحِمَ وَحَالَ بَيْنَهُمَا الْمَوْجُ فَكَانَ مِنَ الْمُغْرَقِينَ (43)

-> See: and Nuh called out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! embark with us and be not with the unbelievers., i.e. Noah was thinking that his son should be with the believers.

-> However his son declined to embark, exactly as Allah planned (how awesome is that brothers and sisters): He (Noahís son)  said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall protect me from the water, yet Noah was thinking that his son is a believer up to this moment, see what Noah told his son next: Nuh said: There is no protector today from Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; however it seems that the high waves stopped the conversation as Noah witnessed his son drowning: and a wave intervened between them, so he was of the drowned., at this moment, everything should click in Noah's mind. Let me put it to you in sequential points:

1) Allah orders Noah to build the arc
2) Allah orders Noah not to speak for those who are unjust because they MUST drown.
3) Allah orders Noah to order his family to embark the ark EXCEPT those against whom the word has already gone forth
4) Noah plead with his kafir son to embark the ark
5) His kafir son refused
6) His kafir son drowned

From the above, we must conclude the following:

1) Noah did not know that his son was a kafir from among the unjust, he was thinking the contrary.
2) Because the son drowned then he must have been from among the unjust

Yet it did not click with Noah, possibly he was thinking emotionally instead of thinking logically, it is very well understood, it was his son, however it does not work with Allah in such way, and emotions have absolutely no value when it comes to dealing with the unjust, at least from the God perspective

Letís now see how Noah acted according to his emotions:

45: And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! Surely my son is of my family, and Your promise is surely true, and You are the most just of the judges.

46: He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant

47: He said: My Lord! I seek refuge in You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge; and if You shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.

[The Quran ; 11;45-47]

وَنَادَى نُوحٌ رَّبَّهُ فَقَالَ رَبِّ إِنَّ ابُنِي مِنْ أَهْلِي وَإِنَّ وَعْدَكَ الْحَقُّ وَأَنتَ أَحْكَمُ الْحَاكِمِينَ (45)
قَالَ يَا نُوحُ إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَهْلِكَ إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صَالِحٍ فَلاَ تَسْأَلْنِ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ إِنِّي أَعِظُكَ أَن تَكُونَ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ (46)
قَالَ رَبِّ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِكَ أَنْ أَسْأَلَكَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَإِلاَّ تَغْفِرْ لِي وَتَرْحَمْنِي أَكُن مِّنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ (47)

->  See, And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! Surely my son is of my family, and Your promise is surely true, and You are the most just of the judges., then Noah was informed with his ignorance regarding his son: He (Allah) said: O Nuh! Surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds,  see how ONLY ALLAH CAN KNOW WHO IS BAD AND WHO IS GOOD, then Allah gave the lesson hard to Noah: therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge;, of course Noah should have worked it out if he used logic but it is understood that he failed because it was his son,  then Allah admonishes Noah: surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant, see. Now Noah can not argue any longer, he must have realized that he has been done by his own son who was faking his  belief: He said: My Lord! I seek refuge in You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge; and if You shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.

How clear is that brothers and sisters?

Well, if it is not clear yet, let me show another Quran verse that should make it without a doubt, clear:

Surely your Lord best knows him who errs from His way, and He best knows the followers of the right course.

[The Quran ; 68;7]

إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (7)

-> See how clear it is: Surely your Lord best knows him who errs from His way, and He best knows the followers of the right course., i.e. Mohammed, Noah and any other prophet can not know for sure him who errs from Allah way, nor they can know the followers of the right course. ONLY ALLAH KNOWS, exactly as we have seen in the story of Noah above

Now I have to question Ibn Magih and His followers, why he included all such hearsay hadith dedicated to praise such people in a book which led to that their names are now Mukhaldeen (eternal) in this life?

Is it part of the sunnah to praise others regarding their faith while ONLY ALLAH can know who is sincere in his faith and who is not?

What will it add to the individual belief other than many will idolise them? while I agree that we should take any good believer as an Iswa Hasinah (good example), but that should only be valid to those believers whom we can witness their actions, not those who lived hundreds of years ago and all what we have is some hearsay that was even narrated by people that we know nothing about other than conjectures.

I really believe that the objective of all such hearsay hadith praising all those dead people is nothing but to brainwash all the next generations of the Muslims to believe in wide and plenty of conjectures and again in defiance to Allah command to all believers to avoid most conjectures even if most of it is a possible truth, believe me it's a plot by Satan

Salam all
AhmedBahgat

Salam brothers and sisters

Itís about time to start going through Sunan Ibn Magih, I will post one hadith at a time then my walkthrough and comment, I would  like to start with the following hadith, not strangely that I accept the following hadith, this is because it makes great sense as well complies 100% with the Quran, Iím sure I will find the equivalent to it in the Sahihain (Bukhari and Muslim), but I will leave this to later time inshaalllah, I would like to concentrate on Ibn Magih for now, letís have a look at this very good hadith:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Nashaar <-- Yahya Ibn Said Al Qattan <--  Shuba and Suffian  <-- Alqamah Ibn Murttad <-- Saad Ibn Ubaidah <-- Abi Abdul Rahman Al Salma <-- Uthman Ibn Affan who said:

The saying of the prophet goes like this:

Rasool Allah (sslla Allah alayhi wa sallam) said (according to Shuba): Khairakum (the best of you) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it

According to Suffian, it goes like this: Afddalakum (The most preferred) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it.


See how from the fifth chain of hearsay undelined in the chain of hearsayers above, they started to forget what the prophet really said, Shuba used the word Khairakum while Suffian used the word Afddalakum, I agree however that the two words may be used synonymously but the accuracy has to stay doubtful, that is what a hearsay is, it is a mixture of true and false, certainly the prophet used one of the words,  we can even assume now that the prophet might have even used another word but these two, like Ahsanakum, which is more synonymous with Khairakum than Afddalakum

I also agree that the hadith teaching is great, this is because it makes great sense that the best of people are those who commit themselves to studying Allah words then teach it to others, the sincerity of those taking on such tough and honourable task can only be verified by Allah alone, no human can know it, they can only guess it and they can certainly be wrong in their guess, exactly as prophet Noah was wrong in guessing that his son was a good believer while he was not and drowned with the unjust.

Now letís apply the above hearsay hadith on some people like Bukhari and Muslim, I will choose Bukhari for now as one example

We were told by the Bukhari advocates that he memorised the Quran by the age of 8, donít forget that we were also told by the Bukhari advocates that he memorised 70,000 hadith by the age of 10, something that does not make sense in here, but let me just assume that this myth is plausible and not busted, now I have to ask:

Is memorising the Quran by the age of 8 considered to be LEARNING the Quran? Some may say so, and I might agree to a very low level, for example, memorising the Quran by the age of 8 will be considered as 10% of learning the Quran , this is because a child at the age of 8 does not have the experience and knowledge to really comprehend the tough message of the Quran, I have watched one of those kids the other day on Youtube, the kid was amazing, he memorised the followings:

1) The whole Quran
2) The verse number
3) The sura number
4) The page number
5) The line number(s)

Bloody amazing man, what an achievement I have to say, no one can take it of him, however the kid is like programmed into one copy of the Quran, if you test him regarding the page number and line number(s) using another Quran, the kid MUST fail. Ironically knowing the page number(s) and the line number(s) is fruitless, the kid wasted his time on it, but the kid did amazingly great regarding the first 3 items (the Quran, the sura number and the verse number)

Now, does anyone think that this kid really learnt the Quran more than hardly 10%?, it is impossible to believe that any kid can, the prophet himself waited until he was 40 years old then for the next 23 years he was taught the Quran, see, it just does not add up that at such early age, children can comprehend the Quran.

A big problem may arise, which is simply, those kids now think that they achieved the ultimate goal regarding the Quran, and they bloody spend the rest of their child life and all their mature life learning, pondering, spreading and teaching the hadith.

Bukhari is a perfect example of such people, he memorised the Quran by the age of 8, then from 8 to 10 (two years) he memorised 70,000 hadith (that is roughly equivalent to more than 10 Qurans btw), then from the age of 10, he spent the rest of his life learning 530,000  hadith for him to filter them based on his own criteria to about 7200 hadith, during all these years which cover all his mature life, he was doing one thing only, learning, memorising, and teaching hadith

Now if we apply the above hadith from Ibn Magih hearsay book, then Bukhari can not be described as the best of the believers, he was not spending his life learning the Quran nor teaching it, let me remind you with the content of that hadith again, I will use Shuba version: Khairakum (the best of you) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it. and that can not be Bukhari, ironically the Bukhari advocates are trying hard for 1200 years to convince the Muslims that Bukhari was one of the best of believers

Indeed, no one knows, he might have been one of the best believers despite his actions can not prove it according to the criteria in the above hadith by Ibn Magih.

You should have guessed it right, only Allah knows who is a good believer and who is a very bad believer and who is a kafir and who is a very bad kafir

Salam all
AhmedBahgat

Good morning all

Today, we have another hadith from Ibn Magih book to go through, I say the hadith should not even be called hadith, you will see that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it. however I actually agree with the message in such so called hadith, let me show it to you:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Al Abbas Ibn Abdul Azim Al Anbaray <-- Abdul Alrazzaq <--  Moamir  <-- Ibn Tawoos <-- Ibn Tawoos Father <-- that Ibn Abbas said:

The saying of Ibn Abbas goes like this:

We were memorising the hadith and the hadith of Rasool Allah salla Allah alayhi wa sallam should be memorised, but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away

-> See, the prophet said absolutely nothing, it was a saying by Ibn Abbas, and it is alleged that he said the HADITH OF RASOOL ALLAH (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) SHOULD BE MEMORISED, this means it should not be written in a book  exactly as the prophet advised them many times, not to write anything he says but the Quran

The second half of the hadith is very vague, I read Sannadi explanation to it and all I could make of it that the people started transferring lies about the prophet, that was expressed by the words but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away, tough to make sense out of it I say, but regardless of what he meant by the last bit of such hadith, why a hadith like that is included in a book that is called Sunan? what sunnah in there exactly?, and the sunnah of whom?

Is it the sunnah of the Prophet?

Is it the sunnah of Ibn Abbas?

Or

Is it the sunnah of Ibn Magih?

Sounds like it has nothing to do with the sunnah of anyone really rather an alleged historical incident between a few guys having a chat chat, right brothers and sisters?

Well, what I make of such allegation that the hadith of the prophet should have never made it in a book and should have been only memorised, exactly as the allegation above that Ibn Abbas said so

Salam all
AhmedBahgat

Good afternoon all

Letís move on to the next hadith in the same chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, the chapter is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith, we have another hadith from Ibn Magih that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it, in fact, again I say the hadith should not even be called hadith, you will see again that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it. however the hadith indeed gives us a hint regarding the transmission of the prophet sayings:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Abdullah Ibn Namir <-- Abu Al Nadr <--  Shuba  <-- Abdul Allah Ibn Abi Al Safar <-- Al Shubi :

The saying of Al Shubi goes like this:

I have accompanied Ibn Umar for a year and I never heard him transferring any hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how some of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet, this makes sense because the prophet has died, Ibn Umar must have listebed to Abu Bakr when the prophet died and he (Abu Bakr) came out informing those who were crying for the prophet that if they worshipped Mohammed then Mohammed is dead, but if the worship the Lord of Mohammed, then Allah never dies, what an alleged great wisdom by a great man like Abu Bakr, again, we just canít be sure that Abu Bakr really said so, nor we can be sure that Al Shubi saying about Ibn Umar can be true, but what we can be assured of that the prophet said absolutely nothing in the above alleged hadith, same as the previous hadith, it sounds like two (Al Shubi & Abdul Allah Ibn Al Saffar) were just having a chat chat, Al Shubi said to the other guy that he accompanied Ibn Umar a year and in this year Ibn Umar said absolutely nothing of the sayings of Mohammed

I wonder from where all these hundreds of thousands of hearsays that Bukhari, Muslim and others brought forward if many of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after  he died as we have seen above in the hadith taken from a chapter in Ibn Magih book that is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

Here is anoother hadith from the same chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith, the hadith is almost identical context to the above but starring different people:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Bashaar <-- Abdul Al Rahman <--  Hammad Ibn Zaid  <-- Yahya Ibn Said <-- Al Saib Ibn Yazid :

The saying of Al Saib Ibn Yazid:

I have accompanied Saad Ibn Malklik from Madinah to Mecca and I have never heard him transferring one hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how more Sahabas refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet,

I have to ask again:  From where all these hundreds of thousands of hearsays that Bukhari, Muslim and others brought forward if many of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after  he died as we have seen above in the hadith taken from a chapter in Ibn Magih book that is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith

An important note is what Al Sanadi said in his explanation to that hadith, I included Al Sanadi tafsir in the image above, sort of he was wondering, how come there are hadith carrying the names of those Sahaba while we read above that they refrained themselves from talking hadith, Al Sanadi tried to offer a reason by saying that they must have talked hadith WHEN THEY WERE IN DESPERATE NEED FOR ONE, otherwise how come there are many of hadith carrying their names as narrators, he ended his explanation by suggesting that some of the sahaba like Abu Hurairah must have been exempted from such caution, I say, that is funny by him to justify the thousands of hadith transmitted by a man whose integrity is doubted like Abu Hurairah

Al Sanadi also offered a silly explanation to why many refrained from transmitting the hadith, he said that they must have considered that their mission is finished by transmitting it to others and now it is the others who need to transmit it, hmmmmmm, hahahahahahahah, that was bloody funny indeed

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

Letís look at this alleged hadith by the prophet from the book of Ibn Magih



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Abu Bakr Abi Shaiba <-- Yahya Ibn Yaali Altaimi <--  Mohammad Ibn Ishaq Ibn Kaab  <-- Ibi Qatada :

The saying of Abi Qatada goes like this:

I have heard the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam while he was on the stand saying : Be warned of talking too much about me, and whoever says something of what I said then he must speak truthfully and whoever lies by allegeing things that I have never said then his seat in hell is secured

- See how the prophet warned the people to talk way too much about him: اياكم و كثرة الحديث عني ,Iyakum Wa Kuthrat Al Hadith Anny, i.e. Be warned of talking too much about me

The problem here O Rasool Allah, and I believe that you can hear me, that what is alleged to be said above by you just went down the drain, FOR 1200 YEARS AND UP TO THIS MOMENT THE FREAK MUSLIMS CANíT STOP TALKING ABOUT YOU, they even put your alleged sayings in 9 books that compete with each other, in clear violation to your alleged saying not to write anything you say but the Quran

I seek refuge in Allah

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Good morning †all

Here is another so called hadith from the book of Ibn Magih, again a hadith in which the prophet said absolutely nothing, the hadith however confirms that many Sahabas refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after he died, letís have a look:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Abu Bakr Abi Shaiba & Mohammed Ibn Bashaar <-- Ghandar Mohammed Ibn Ghafar <-- †Shuba †<-- Gami Ibn Shaddad Abi Sakhara <-- Amer Ibn Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair <-- Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair †:

The saying of Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair goes like this:

I said to Zobair Ibn Al Aawam: Why I donít hear you saying any hadith about the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam as I hear Ibn Masood and many others?. †Zobair Ibn Al Aawam replied: While I didnít leave him (the prophet) since I embraced Islam, I heard him saying on the stand : Whoever lies about me deliberately then his seat in hell will be secured

- Again it was †saying by someone else but the prophet, that man (Zobair Ibn Al Aawam) who is one of the ten promised Jannah as the hearsay hadith alleged, that man who will never lie DELIBRATELY about the prophet STILL REFRAINED HIMSELF FROM TALKING HADITH, obviously he chose to be careful and not indulge himself in Jerry Springer crap of conjectures that may be used by the enemy to spread lies about the prophet, a wise man he was

Do other Muslims did the same after the prophet died?, of course not, many of those confused Muslims accepted Satan invitation to indulge their arses in Jerry Springer crap and conjectures about our great prophet and even put it in a book that nowdays is a rich source for the enemy of Islam to defame the great man Mohammed and all his followers

Again, I have to seek refuge in Allah

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
HomoErectus

Who the f. is ibn magih ?

Is he relevant regarding THE HOAX ?

Can he whitewash the blood on islamic tracks ?

Can he make something "holy", which is rather unholy and primitive ?
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

I would like to move on to another chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book Sunan Ibn Magih, there is actually more hadith to be looked at in the Introduction chapter, as well we will need to look at all those chapters where the sahaba were praised and see what sunnah we can learn from it, for the time being I would like to jump to the third chapter, the chapter is called Al Salat, i.e. The Prayer, this subject is very important to debunk Al Mushrikoon because they always think that they can corner those who are against the written hadith, not the MEMORISED/ORAL ones by referring to the subject of prayer, let me explain further:

Many written hadith advocates whom I debated with always come with their Tom and Jerry argument that those written hadith are important for us to learn how to pray, while the matter of the fact I have never learnt how to pray from a book, I actually canít remember how I learnt praying, but I guess it was very early in my life, possibly between 3 and 8 years old, I can actually witness my 4 years old son for the last 2 years learning it automatically from me, it starts by curiosity from the child seeing his father praying, then †the child starts to †jump on my back while Iím prostrating, he made me laugh many times actually (just canít stop it when happens, it is so funny Ė Astaghfar Allah), later on he started duplicating my moves while standing next to me, so I bought him his child size praying mat, and he automatically figured out that this is his own praying mat, itís really amazing to watch, at least it may give me a hint to how many kids who are brought up in such environment will automatically learn how to pray, later on inshaallah when he is aware enough I will explain to him what praying is all about, then how to do it, and I donít think the whole matter needs a book. Al Mushrikoon however keep telling us that to learn how to pray we need all those written hadith, I on the other hand agree with them to a degree, what I reject from them is their allegation that we need it written, therefore while we are investigating Ibn Magih hearsay book, we can not over look the Prayer chapter, I want to see if how I pray the 5 times a day is detailed as Al Mushrikoon claim

In the next image from Ibn Magih book index, the highlighted chapter (in red rectangle) is the Prayer chapter:



This chapter is divided into 13 sub chapters as seen below:



What I will do from my next comment inshaallah is to go through every single hadith in those 13 chapters (I may skip the ones with identical context but I will still reference them briefly), then we can reach a conclusion if the whole chapter of Prayers in Ibn Magih book was/is required

Talk to you soon inshaallah


Salam
AhmedBahgat

Good morning brothers and sisters

Today we will look at  all the hadith in the second sub chapter named The time of Fajr (dawn) prayer under the main chapter named The Prayer

The second sub chapter named The time of Fajr (dawn) prayer has 4 hadith in it as seen in the following index from Ibn Magih hearsay book:



Here is the first hadith:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaiba <-- Suffian Ibn Ayniah <-- Al Zuharri <-- Arawa <-- Aysha:

The saying of Aysha goes like this:
The women from among the believers were praying with the prophet salla Allah Alaihi wa sallam the Subh prayer then they return to their families and non of them would have recognised them, she meant because of darkness.

As you can see above, the hadith is not a saying by prophet Mohammed, nor it told us how we pray salat al Fajr (dawn prayer) , ironically it did not even tell us what is the time for salat al Fajr (dawn prayer)

Letís analyse the hadith, the hadith is talking about salat al Subh, let me assume that she was referring to salat al Fajr, this assumption may be confirmed by what she meant by the families not recognising them due to the darkness,  but that should not be the objective of such hearsay, a child who knows what Fajr (dawn) is, should know that it starts while it is dark, therefore there is absolutely no information that can benfit us from such hadith, in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr, I really wonder why she did not refer to it as salat al Fajr despite the word Fajr is a common Arabic word as well used in the Quran, but we know well now that even if she used the word Fajr instead of Subh, the hadith is fruitless because it failed to tell us what time salat al Fajr starts, and most importantly the hadith never explained to us how to pray salat al Fajr nor it even told us how many Rakaa it should be.  

Letís move on to the next hadith:


Source

The hadith above suppose to be an elaboration by the prophet regarding the following Quran verse:

Stand up for the prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the dawn Quran; surely the dawn Quran is witnessed.

[The Quran ; 17:78]

أَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا (7Cool


The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Ubaid Ibn Asbat Ibn Mohammed Al Farshi <-- Ubaidís father <-- Al Amash <-- Ibarhim <--Abdulllah  & Al Amash <-- Abi Salih <-- Abi Hurairah <-- Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:

Can you see how silly the above chain is: Al Amash appeared twice in the chain, I underlined both above, what is silly that Al Amash was fifth in the chain of hearsayers and he was also in the third chain but this time with Abdullah, sort of Abdullah and Al Amash were talking at the same time. Funny indeed

The saying of goes like this:
Regarding 17:78, it means that the angels of the day and night witness it.

What can I say man, there is absolutely nothing to learn from such hadith, in fact the hadith is misleading because I have never heard of such term before, the angels of the day and night, this is very stupid brothers and sisters, we are talking about darkness time (al Fajr) (the dawn), yet Abu Hurairah is telling us the angels of the day witness it, I thought that angels have no relation to the human day and night, of course there should be no relation whatsoever,  more ironic how about Allah?, does He witness those who read the Quran at dawn?, well according to Abu Huraiah allegation, Allah does not, only the angels of the day and night witness it, how come the prophet said such ignorant statement regarding 17:78, it is impossible to believe that he did so, for me the above is yet another lie by the doubtful Abu Hurairah, that is what you should notice brothers and sisters, most non sensible hadith were narrated by that man as we will see in our research inshaallah

The above hadith has to be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) It created a conjecture regarding the angels by classifying them under two categories, the day angels and the night angels
2) It excluded Allah from witnessing those who read the Quran at dawn
3) It never told us the time of the Fajr prayer
4) It never told us how to pray the Fajr prayer
5) It never told us how many Rakaa the Fajr prayer is
6) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah who was accused of lying about the prophet by Omar and by Aysha according to the many allegations and conjectures we read in such books

Letís look at the next hadith:


Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Abdul Rahman Ibn Ibrahim Al Damashqi <-- Al Waleed Ibn Muslim <-- Al Awzaai <-- Naheek Ibn Yareem Al Awzaai <-- Mughith Ibn Sama:

The saying of Mughith Ibn Sama goes like this:
I prayed the Subh prayer with Abdullah Ibn Al Zubair during darkness and when he finished his prayer I asked Ibn Omar: What prayer is that?, Ibn Omar said: This is our prayer that we did with Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam, as well with Abu Bakr and Umar. But when Umar doubted it, Uthman confirmed  what Ibn Omar said.

What load of non sense man, the above hearsay teaches us nothing but the sahaba were confused what salat al Fajr is, this is because when Mughith prayed with Abdullah Ibn Al Zubair at darkness (suppose to be the Fajr prayer) he went and asked Ibn Omar about it, but Omar (looks like Omar Ibn Al Khatab) doubted what Ibn Omar said that the believers should be praying during such darkness, then the witnessing of Uthman confirmed what Ibn Omar said regarding such prayer at darkness.

Again the above hearsay must be dismissed because of the following:

1) It was not a saying by the prophet
2) It  raises questions on the table that the prayer at darkness were doubted during that time (I assume after the prophet had died)
3) It failed to tell us what prayer they were talking about, neither Subh nor Fajr
4) It failed to tell us how the prayer were performed
5) It failed to tell us how many Rakaa were performed

Nothing but total confusion that must be fruitless.

Letís look at the last hadith in this sub chapter that suppose to tell us the time of the Fajr (dawn) prayer



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Mohammed Ibn Al Sabbah <-- Suffian Ibn Ayniah <-- Ibn Aglaan <-- Asim Abn Oomar Ibn Qatadah & his grandfather Badri <-- Mahmood Ibn Labeed <-- Rafi Ibn Khadij <-- the prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:

The saying of the prophet goes like this:
Wake up in the Subh because it is better in the reward, or he said better for your reward.

Actually the hadith above is hard to translate, these three words ‏أصبحوا بالصبح , Asbihu Bi Al Subh, I believe it means to wake up at Subh (presumed Fajr Ďdawní  time), while indirectly means to pray the Fajr prayer, because it is better in the reward, can you see how Rafi Ibn Khadij forgot what the prophet said at the end, he was not sure if the prophet said: it is better for the reward or it is better for your reward, it is not a big issue but still an argument against the accuracy of such hearsay.

If the prophet really said the above, then what sunnah is in his saying? Absolutely nothing rather, an advice that getting up to pray al Fajr prayer (assumption that he meant Fajr prayer), is better for the reward. We were never told how to do al Fajr prayer nor have we been told how many Rakaa the Fajr prayer is, on the other hand I accept such alleged advice because it is logical that when we are sleep at night and we wake up especially for the prayer then it should be better in the reward, no rocket science of hadith is required to understand it.

Here you have it brothers and sisters, almost nothing (indeed it is nothing) we learnt from the above 4 hadith that suppose to tell us at least the time of the Fajr prayer, the word Fajr was never mentioned in all 4 hadith however what we learnt from the above 4 hadith that the women were praying with the prophet at darkness and when the men did it on their own, they doubted each other and looked very stupid to what prayer they suppose to do at what time.

Itís really strange brothers and sisters, why then now days  we use the calculated times (to the minute) that tells us the time of the Fajr prayer every day (365 days a year)? Are we following the sunnah of the prophet by doing so?, Did they really calculate the time of the Fajr prayer as we do now?, if not then we are not following such sunnah of the prophet and his people, in fact, if we do then we should doubt the praying at darkness like many of the sahaba did and we should also believe that there are day angels and night angels as we read above in the hearsay book of Ibn Magih

Talk to you soon in the next prayer sub chapter inshaallah

Salam
Baal

You are so good at practicing the Science of the hadith Ahmed.

You talk about Zobair Ibn Al Aawam not talking as much as ibn masoud, that is because Zobeir was a Christian, he did not want to take part of this crap and make it worse.
AhmedBahgat

and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?

Wow, the master subject matter expert of hadith is asking for my opinion.

Doing what you are doing, comparing the historical document to each other, finding inconsistencies, finding reinforcements, if anything i would ask you to remain a little more scholarly and try to prove your point and instead just concentrate on finding the Truth of what happened.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?

Wow, the master subject matter expert of hadith is asking for my opinion.

Doing what you are doing, comparing the historical document to each other, finding inconsistencies, finding reinforcements, if anything i would ask you to remain a little more scholarly and try to prove your point and instead just concentrate on finding the Truth of what happened.


I'm sorry pal, the science of hadith you are talking about is noot what I'm doing

The science of hadfith is mainly about the narrators reputaions (which i proved to be flawed, the story of Noah and his son), however they claim to also look at the Matn, which is the content of the hadith (the message of it), but their Matn science seems that it was based on flawed criteria that made the most of the Ummah confused, sounds to me like a Satan plot

Thei two maiin selection criteria, Isnad and Matn are 100% flawed
AhmedBahgat

Also baal, I careless about who the narrters are, in fact if bukhari was alive, I would have challneged him that those whom he  claimed to never lie did indeed lie, I absoutely don't know almost (if not all) the names listed as narraters, how the hell I can know that they never lied in their day to day live during all the years they lived?, in fact I will even fail to know that about a known living human, imagine now someone unknown to me who lived 1400 before me, their science of hadith is nothing but Tom and Jerry crap, and if I give it a higher level then it won't pass Barbir crap and if it did then it has to be Jerry's crap
AhmedBahgat

Good evening all

Hope you found this research is interesting, I indeed found it so, I always wanted to do so, to go through most of the hadith in all these books while taking notes then say something about it, this is a must now to defend myself against the accusation †that is commonly said to me, that Ií m a †Kafir because I reject those books, they indeed need to manipulate the fact that I donít reject any saying by anything even Darwin and the Bible as long as it does not contradict the Quran and as long as it makes sense of course, on the other hand they need to defend my accusation against them that they are Mushrikoon.

Let me tell everyone what I reject again, it is putting all those sayings in books, this actually contradict the facts the Muslims should believe in regarding the Quran, for all the ORAL hearsay, I have absolutely no problem with that, I know at the end of the day that it is nothing but hearsay that I will never be able to prove in this life. And accepting or rejecting any of it is solely to the individuals. †

When I looked at the index of the 13 sub chapters under the main chapter the Prayer, I discovered that I missed the first sub chapter, I believe it is due to the fact that it has no name rather chapter, in Arabic it is called Baab as seen in the following image from Ibn Magih hearsay and conjectures book:



The above nameless sub chapter about the Prayer has 2 hadith in it as seen above, here is the first hadith:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Mohammed Ibn Al Sabbah & Ahmed Ibn Sannan <-- Ishaq Ibn Yusuf Al Azraq <-- Suffian H <-- Ali Ibn Maimoon Alraqi <-- Mukhallad Ibn Yazid <-- Suffian <-- Alqamah Ibn Murttad <-- Solaiman Ibn Baridah <-- Baridah:

The saying of Baridah (Solaiman Ibn Baridahís Father) goes like this:
A man came to the prophet salla Allah Alaihi wa sallam and asked him about the time of the prayer, then he said, (the prophet) then prayed with us for two days, when the sun has risen up, he ordered Bilal to call for the prayer of Zuhr, then he ordered him to call for the prayer of Asr while the sun was up, white and clear, then he ordered him to call for Al Maghrib prayer when the sun set and when the last light disappeared he ordered him to call for the Isha prayer, and when the dawn came he ordered him to call for salat Al Fajr, the prophet said where is the questioner who asked about the prayer time, the man said: Iím O Rasool Allah, the prophet said: your prayer is in between (these times).

The hadith above is good indeed, but not perfect, it tells us the 5 praying times roughly. NOT AS WE CALCULATE THEM NOW DAYS. As well we can read the exact names of all 5 prayers Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha, it was also an explanation from the prophet to someone who came and asked him such question, however the prophet did not really answer straight away with a saying, rather HE STAYED WITH THEM FOR 2 DAYS, PRAYING WITH THEM 2 x 5 SALATS A DAY, THAT IS WHAT IS CALLED THE PRACTICAL SUNNAH, see what Iím talking about, it is like how my son is learning the prayer from me, he was duplicating the moves on the times I pray, the prophet was an Imam (prayeing in frnt of them ) to them and doing the exact same but he only needed 2 days to teach some bunch of adults, then he elaborated that the times of each prayer extends in between adjacent ones.

But keep in mind that the above hadith NEVER STATED HOW TO PRAY EACH ONE, NEITHER IT TOLD US HOW MANY RAKAA EACH ONE IS, you know why?, because that part must be practical, i.e. seeing how he did then they learnt from him by duplicating the moves and sayings and because it is an act that is done 5 times a day, it will be so easy to be remembered from the moment it was learnt, NO BOOKS ARE REQUIRED TO TEACH US HOW TO PRAY unless it is for a new comer to Islam at a late age, and even in this case they donít read the books of hadith to learn how to pray, rather a tiny booklet that is max 5 to 10 pages with the instructions to how to pray, these booklets are for those who missed out on being raised in such practising environment to learnt it automatically

And here is the second and last hadith in this nameless sub chapter:


Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Muhammed Ibn Ramh Al Masri <-- Al Layth Ibn Saad <-- Ibn Shihab

The allegation continues that Ibn Shihab was sitting somehwre with Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz, within his state, and Arwa Ibn Alzubair, was with him, and when Omar (I assume Omar Ibn Al Khataab) delayed the Asr prayer, Arwa said to him (to Omar): Isnít that Jibreel came down and prayed in front of Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam , Omar said to him: Know what you say O Arwa.

Then all †of a sudden the chain of hearsayers continues, very confusing indeed, it goes like this: <-- Bashir Ibn Abi Masood <-- Aba Masood <-- Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:


The saying of Rasool Allah goes like this:

Jibreel came down then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him. He (Rasool Allah) was pointing to it using his 5 fingers

Despite the confusion in the chain of hearsayers, the hadith above confirms that learning the Salat was indeed nothing but practical, see how Jibreel prayed in front of the prophet the 5 times, exactly as the prophet taught the man and all with him who asked him about the time of the prayer, sure the above hadith does not tell us any time nor even the names of the prayers, it still never told us how many Rakaa and how we should do them, again this is because it is all practical and will be learnt automatically and never be forgotten by those who do it 5 times a day

Despite I accept the two messages above, yet the 2 hadith have very little merit to be put in a book, this is because what the people back then learnt from them is only the following:

1) The prayers are 5 times a day, Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha
2) The rough times for each one of those 5 prayers

Can you see that I used the words (the people back then) , this is because I learnt nothing from those hadith, I already know that the prayer are 5 times a day and Icertainly know the name of each one. I even work out their times far more accurate and per day unlike the people back then.

What I mean that when the prophet PRACTICALLY learnt how to pray †from Jibreel, he (the prophet) †on his part taught the people how to pray by being a practical example to them as Jibreel was a practical example to him, and from all those believing people, their progenies must automatically and practically learn how to pray. Remember how my son is automatically learning how to pray from me.

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

Today, I would like to discuss two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The third sub chapter is named The time of Zuhr prayer, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



I will actually talk briefly about those 4 hadith as I need to do the same with the Prayer chapter in Bukhari book

-> The first hadith # 665 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that the prophet prayed salat al Zuhr when the sun was up and hot, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is.

> The second hadith # 666 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who also called salat al Zuhr by another name salat al Hajeer that the prophet prayed salat al Zuhr when the sun was up and hot, almost identical context to the previous hadith, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is.

> The third hadith # 667 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone  that the sahaba complained to the prophet that praying during noon time is tough due to the hot sun, the hadith alleges that the sahabaís complaint was ignored by the prophet, very strange hadith I have to say, but what we can be assured of that such hadith has nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is. It only tells us about the rants by the sahaba regarding how tough it is to pray when the sun is up and hot. Remember when they also ranted about praying in such darkness as we read in the chapter regarding the time of dawn prayer, very funny indeed.

-> > The fourth hadith # 668 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an identical context to hadith # 667, it confirms the rants of the sahaba regarding praying in hot weather during noon time while the sun is up and hot. It also confirms that the prophet ignored their complaint.

Here you have it brothers and sisters, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Zuhr.

The fourth sub chapter is named Cooling down during Zuhr prayer when it is hot, obviously this sub chapter is dedicated to replying to the sahaba rants about praying Zuhr when it is hot, despite the two hadith # 668 & 667 alleged that the prophet ignored their complaint.  This sub chapter has 5 hadith in it as seen below, sounds like it wonít have anything concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is:



-> The first hadith # 669 is an alleged saying by the prophet and it alleges that the prophet said that when it is hot, we should try to seek cool areas to pray or delay our prayer a bit in such hot time, it is also alleged that the prophet said that the hot weather is part of hell, sort of that is why they should seek cool areas to pray r even delay it until it cools down.

Very logical indeed, it does not really need rocket science of hadith nor it even needed an explanation by the great prophet, this is because Allah clearly said in the Quran that He made the religion easy on us. All those hadith about the sahaba rants regarding praying in hot weather really serve nothing but portraying them as a bunch of dumb people with very low IQ, how about praying during rain then?, are there any chapters informing us with such possible rants by them?, look if we are going to rant about praying in hot weather then we should rant about praying in heavy rain.

-> The second hadith # 670 is an identical context to hadith # 669, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The third hadith # 671 is an identical context to hadith # 669 & 670, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The fourth hadith # 672 is an identical context to hadith # 669 &  670 & 671, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The fifth hadith # 673 is almost identical context to hadith # 669 &  670 & 671 & 672, the part about hell is not mentioned,  just briefed repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

Again, here you have it brothers and sisters, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Zuhr, all we learnt is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Zuhe is roughly when the sun is up and hot
2) The sahaba ranted about praying in such hot weather
3) The prophet ignored them first then later on replied to them by advising them to seek cool areas or even delay it a bit until it cools down, the reason given is because the hot weather is part of hell and they should avoid it

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
Baal

in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,
[/quote]

Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.
AhmedBahgat

AhmedBahgat wrote:
in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,


Baal wrote:
Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.


Fine, I accept your argument

but I still wonder why they didn't use the word fajr despite the Quran used it

salam
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,


Baal wrote:
Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.


Fine, I accept your argument

but I still wonder why they didn't use the word fajr despite the Quran used it

salam

Not sure why. also it seems that Fajr was a pre-dawn event as people moved while it is still dark.

Btw I only found Three type of prayers talked about in the koran, not Five. Is there more then Three?
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Btw I only found Three type of prayers talked about in the koran, not Five. Is there more then Three?


well, this is a big subject and I debated it with the free minders years ago, firstly I don't care how many salat a day, it is logical the more the better, I also agree that the Quran implies 3 salat a day more than 5 salat a day, however I decided to follow the hearsay about the prophet regardimg the salat, this is because if Allah ordered 3 and I'm praying 5 then no damage can happen especially the other two was done by the prophet as alleged, at the end of the day we pray the 5 times to Allah and not to Mohammed


I consider the salat is †a major subject that the propeht had to explain to how it is done and therefore I decided to follow such hearsay about him and in no way this can make me a Mushrik

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

Today, I will discuss the next two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The fifth sub chapter is named The time of Asr prayer, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> The first hadith # 674 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that the prophet prayed salat al Asr when the sun was up and hot, †the hadith did not differentiate between the time of the previous salat (salat al Zuhr) and the time of salat al Asr, both are said to be done when the sun is up and hot, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Asr is.

> The second hadith # 675 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who this time suggested that the prophet prayed salat al Asr when the sun was in the room, sort of perpendicular to such room, i.e. no shade appeared in the room, very funny indeed, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is. And that is when the sun is in the room, haha

The sixth sub chapter is named Keeping up the Asr prayer , again sounds like it wonít have anything concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, it has three hadith in it:



-> The first hadith # 676 is an alleged saying by the prophet and it alleges that the prophet said regarding the enemy who fought against the believers in †the battle of Khandaq, that Allah has filled their homes and graves with fire because they made the believers miss salat al Asr.

-> The second hadith # 677 is an alleged saying by the prophet, it is alleged that he said: Whoever miss out on salat al Asr, it is as if he lost his family and his money.

-> The third hadith # 678 is identical context to hadith # 676, it confirms what it was alleged that the prophet said: Allah filled the homes and graves of al Mushrikoon with fire because they imprisoned the believers during al Asr prayer and only let them free after the sun has set

Again, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Asr, in fact the time of salat al Asr in the above hadith is almost identical as the time stated for salat al Zuhr, when the sun is up and hot, all we learnt from these 4 is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Asr is roughly when the sun is up and hot or when it is in the room (sort of perpendicular with no shade for the objects in the room)
2) Allah filled the homes and graves of the enemy of Islam during the battle of Khandaq with fire because they caused the believers to miss salat al Asr
3) Whoever misses salat al Asr is as though he lost his family and his money.

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
BMZ

AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?


lol!

I could not resist, Ahmed. Well asked.

Sometimes, I wonder why did they choose the word Science to go with Hadith. Could have gone for the Art of Hadith or the History of Hadith or the Art of Interpretation of Hadith.

BMZ
 Smile
Baal

BMZ wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?


lol!

I could not resist, Ahmed. Well asked.

Sometimes, I wonder why did they choose the word Science to go with Hadith. Could have gone for the Art of Hadith or the History of Hadith or the Art of Interpretation of Hadith.

BMZ
 Smile

That question had been answered. You would be well advised for the sake of your credibility to reply to its answer or accept this statement as retracted.
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

In this comment inshaalllah, I will go through the next two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The seventh sub chapter is named The time of Maghrib prayer, it has 3 hadith in it as seen below:



-> The first hadith # 679 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that they used to pray al Maghrib salat with Rasool Allah then when any of them finish and leave he just look at where they dropped their arrows, absolute non sense to be honest, as well it has nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, yet it did not even tell us when ROUGHLY salat al Maghrib †is.

> The second hadith # 680 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who alleged that he prayed salah al Maghrib with the prophet when the sub has disappeared, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Maghrib is. And that is when the sun disappears in the horizon

> The third hadith # 681 is an alleged saying by the prophet it is alleged that he said that his ummah will be doing great if they donít delay al Maghrib prayer till the plenty of stars are visible in the sky. This alleged hadith is nothing but an advice not to delay al Maghrib prayer, it has nothing concerning how to pray it nor how many rakaa it is neither the exact time to pray salat al Maghrib.

The eighth sub chapter is named The time of Isha prayer, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



> The first hadith # 682 is an alleged saying by the prophet, it is alleged that he said that if he does not desire to make hard on his ummah he would have commanded them to delay salat al Isha, absolutely nothing in this hadith, not even an advice because the prophet DECLINED to pass on such advice so he does not make it hard on the ummah, also nothing concerning how to pray salat al Isha nor how many rakaa it is neither what time it starts and ironically to what time the ummah should delay if it was commanded by the prophet to do so.

> The second hadith # 683 is an alleged saying by the prophet, †it is actually an alleged elaboration by the prophet regarding to what time he would have commanded them to delay salat al Isha (however he declined to issue such command to make it easy on the ummah), †in this hadith it is alleged that the prophet said he would have commanded the ummah to delay the Isha prayer to 1/3 of the night time or to Ĺ of the night time. Nor sure what is the point of mentioning to be 1/3 or Ĺ if it is alleged that the prophet declined to issue such command, well, what Iím looking for is how to pray salat al Isha and how many rakaa it is, is that something we will find in Ibn Magih book? So far we have seen nothing and we already discussing the fifth prayer.

> The third hadith # 684 is not a saying by the prophet, rather an allegation by someone who alleged that the prophet one night †delayed salah al Isha up to the middle of the night, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Isha is.

> The fourth hadith # 685 is an alleged saying by the prophet, †it has similar context to the above 3 hadith (682 Ė 684), in effect it has almost nothing new but more elaboration to why the prophet declined to issue such command of delaying salat al Isha till the middle of the night, in this hadith.it is alleged that the prophet worry regarding imposing such hardship was only regarding the sick and weak and because of both he declined to make it a command for all the believers.

What did we learn from the above 4 hadith regarding the time of salat al Isha?, absolutely nothing but an allegation that the prophet does not want the believers to take him as an example regarding the delay of the Isha prayer, see when the Isha payer is delayed it does not mean that we will watch TV until the middle of the night †then we pray salat al Isha and sleep, it does not make sense such way and delaying the Isha prayer will look very funny indeed, what it means that the believers pray most of the night then end it with salat al Isha before going to sleep, that is what the prophet was ordered to do, letís have as look:

1: O you who have wrapped up in your garments!
2: Rise to pray in the night except a little,
3: Half of it, or decrease from it a little,
4: Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.
5: Surely We will make to light upon you a weighty Word.
6: Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech.

[The Quran ; 73:1-6]

يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُزَّمِّلُ (1)
قُمِ اللَّيْلَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا (2)
نِصْفَهُ أَوِ انقُصْ مِنْهُ قَلِيلًا (3)
أَوْ زِدْ عَلَيْهِ وَرَتِّلِ الْقُرْآنَ تَرْتِيلًا (4)
إِنَّا سَنُلْقِي عَلَيْكَ قَوْلًا ثَقِيلًا (5)
إِنَّ نَاشِئَةَ اللَّيْلِ هِيَ أَشَدُّ وَطْءًا وَأَقْوَمُ قِيلًا (6)

-> See how the prophet was ordered to pray most of the night: Rise to pray in the night except a little , Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited , this is because praying at night: Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech..

The 4 hadith regarding the time of Isha prayer as seen in Ibn Magih book, must contradict the above verses in two aspects:

1) Praying most of the night was an order from Allah Himself to the prophet. Consequently it has to be an order to all his followers, while this is not always the case as some commands from Allah were specific to the prophet alone, in this case, we are talking praying at night because : Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech. as stated by Allah
2) We are ordered by Allah to take the prophet as an Iswa Hassnah and in this case what better example than praying most of the night because : Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech.
3) The four hadith never implied that delaying al Isha prayer was not preferred for only the sick and the weak rather the context of all 4 hadith imply that it was not commanded for all, regardless being sick or weak, despite the clear fact that the weak and the sick are in desperate need for Allah help, so instead of staying most of the night praying for Allah to give them health and strength it is alleged that the prophet said that it is better for them to sleep most of the night instead spending it praying to Allah then ending it with salat al Isha

Again, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Isha nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Isha, all we learnt from these 4 is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Isha is roughly at night.
2) The prophet desired to command the believers to delay salat al Isha till the middle of the night but he declined to do so fearing the hardship upon the sick and the weak

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

The next 5 sub chapters in the prayer chapter in Ibn Magih book are not titled to relate to any salat of the 5, I guess those chapters will be talking salat in general, Iím crossing my fingers that we will find what we are looking for which is how to pray each salat of the five salat and how many rakaa each one is?

The ninth sub chapter is named The time of the prayer in cloudy days, it has 1 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 686 is an alleged saying by the prophet, the message in there is simply to pray each salat earlier in cloudy days, this is because they wonít be able to see the sun and judge the tough times of the 5 salat, the hadith continued with a reason to why the prophet said so, it is alleged that he said: so we avoid missing al Asr prayer because whoever misses al Asr prayer, his/her good work will be nullified

Well, it will make more sense to pray earlier in cloudy days if the reason is, not to miss any prayer of the five prayers (not just al Asr prayer as alleged above), the above is a bit silly because it indirectly implies that it is ok to miss any salat but salat as Asr, and it also implies that in a cloudy days many Muslims who failed to work out the times and missed on al Asr prayer must have their good deed nullified, does not sound fair to me. †

Letís move on to sub chapter no. 10, it is named Whoever sleeps while missing a prayer or forgetting it, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 687 is an alleged saying by the prophet, he was asked: what the people should do if they miss a prayer?, the prophet replied to pray it if it is remembered. I say that is logical and needs no rocked science of hadith to figure it out, nor it is required to be documented in a book next to Allah book, I grew up knowing automatically to pray those salat that I missed, and surely I will only be able to do that if I remember that I missed a salat, SEE, it is not like I will pray missing salat while I canít remember that I missed one, the hadith above is simply fruitless

-> Hadith # 688 is identical to hadith # 687, both are useless and fruitless

-> Hadith # 689 is a questionable hadith, not strange if it goes back to Abu Hurairah, the most doubtful muhaddith according to their hadith, let me bring this hadith in here:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Harmalah Ibn Yahya <-- Abdullah Ibn Wahb <-- Yunis <-- Ibn Shihab †<-- Saeed Ibn Almuseeb <-- Abu Hurairah said:

I wonít translate this very long and boring story that is alleged by Abu Hurairah, it is simply based on the previous two hadith that we should pray any salat that we miss as long as we remember that we missed one. Now leaving aside the details of Jerry Springer type story alleged by Abu Hurairah and just concentrate on the last bit Abu Hurairah said:

Abu Hurairah stated at the end that after the prophet stated to pray any missing salat if we remember it, he read the following Quran verse as a confirmation to what the prophet said:

Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up the prayer for My remembrance

[The Quran ; 20:14]

إِنَّنِي أَنَا اللَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا أَنَا فَاعْبُدْنِي وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِذِكْرِي (14)


-> See how Abu Hurairah is confusing matters with each other, he was a professional doing so, the verse above is from the story of Musa, it is what Allah said to Musa when He spoke directly to him, this is what Allah said: Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, then Allah added the following: فَاعْبُدْنِي وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِذِكْرِي , Fa Obuddni Wa Aqim Al Salat Li Zikri, i.e. therefore serve Me and keep up the prayer for My remembrance , the two underlined ĎIí means the word: MY, i.e. we keep up the prayer for THE REMEMBERANCE OF ALLAH, Abu Hurairah however is alleging that the above verse means the REMEMBERANCE OF THE PRAYER, this is just an absolute non sense, I canít believe that many Muslim buy such rubbish by Abu Hurairah

The above hadith has to be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) It created confusion by linking †praying the missed salat when we remember that we missed one to verse 20:14 which is talking about keeping up the prayer for the Remembrance of †ALLAH.
2) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah and again who was accused of lying about the prophet by Omar Ibn Alkhattab †and by Aysha according to the many allegations and conjectures we read in such books

-> Hadith # 690 is almost identical to hadith # 687 & 688, all are useless and fruitless, this hadith however adds more questions to the subject of missing the salat, the allegation in this haidth goes like this: some sahaba went to the prophet asking him of their status because they sleep a lot until the sun is up in the sky, indirectly †they are saying that they sleep excessively and miss salat al Fajr (this is obvious from their saying that they sleep until the sun is up), it is alleged that the prophet told them that they are not being excessive in their sleep rather the humans are excessive in their (wake time), i.e. during the day time while they are awake because they miss the salat while they are awake, then he added that they should pray the missed salat if they remember it and even suggested to pray it with the same time salat in the following day.

The hadith above must be questionable because how come they claimed to sleep all night until the sun is up then the prophet tell them that it is ok to do that, obviously they were admitting their TAFREET in their sleep, i.e. missing the salat during such time, the hadith can never imply that they prayed al Fajr prayer then they over slept until the sun is up, this is because they missed on nothing if they prayed al Fajr prayer before they went to bed, see, they must have been doing something wrong, that is why they asked the prophet for a clarification, now when it is alleged that the prophet clarified their confusion, we see that more confusion been added, the prophet told them no TAFREET in their sleep, despite they missed on salat al Fajr, and despite they waked up when the sun is up, it implies that they have enough time to make salat al Zuhr, i.e. they missed on nothing and they needed no clarificstion in such case. It has to be salat al Fajr that they missed and that was due to their excessive sleep according to their own admission, on the other hand, the hadith implies that the prophet was ok with that. Simply the hadith is very confusing and has absolutely no value as far as the prayer in concerned.

Finally, as we have seen so far, absolutely nothing we learnt to how we pray nor how many rakaa each prayer of the five is, I wonder why al Mushrikoon keep claiming that the hadith books are required to know how to pray, well there are 3 sub chapters left in the whole prayer chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, hopefully we will learn how to pray and how many rakaa each salat is in those 3 sub chapters

Salam all
AhmedBahgat

Salam all

In this comment inshaallah we will finish the walkthrough of the last three sub chapters in the prayer chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book. By then everyone with a working brain should recognise if the whole chapter in such book was/is required for the believers to learn how to pray each salat of the five as well learn how many rakaa each one is

The eleventh sub chapter is named The time of the prayer during urgent affairs in life, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 691 is an alleged saying by the prophet, the hearsay goes back to the doubtful Abu Hurairah, it simply alleges that the prophet said whoever catches one rakaa from Asr prayer before the sun sets then he/she missed nothing, same with Subh (Fajr) prayer, if any catches one rakaa before the sun rises then they missed on nothing

Well, it is obvious to understand that, people with brains donít really need anyone to explain them such situation of urgency that caused a believer to delay the salat until the last minute and while praying the first rakaa in such salat the time for the next salat started, in such case the believer missed on nothing because he/she managed to start the salat before the next salat time starts. I also donít mind to accept such elaboration by the prophet BUT ONLY if it is alleged that he said so regarding each salat of the five, however the hearsay above is only specific to two salat of the five (Subh or Fajr & Asr), how about the other three prayers (Zuhr, Maghrib & Isha)?, well it is logical to treat all as such, now I have to ask why it is alleged that the prophet only talked about two?, I honestly have to say this:

The hadith above must be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) While the message in it is logical, it still creates confusion because now we donít know what our status would be if we catch a rakaa from (Zuhr or Maghrib or Isha) then the time for the next prayer started while continuing the rest of the rakaas
2) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah, whom we can never know if he was really good or bad, we can only look at the evidences, ironically it is their man made hadith books that makes such man integrity questionable, at least he never listened to the alleged prophet advice to NOT TO TALK A LOT ABOUT HIM, Abu Hurairah however ignored that and indulged himself in thousands of hearsay, conjectures and allegations about our great prophet, that is why he was accused of lying against the prophet by both Omar and Aysha, in fact he (Abu Hurairah) refrained himself from talking as such during the life of Omar and when Omar died, Abu Hurairah went berserk inventing thousands of hearsay against the great and honoured prophet, it was Abu Hurairah admission that many of the hearsay he said would have never been said by him if Omar was alive (he was a coward as well), I will try to find it later for you inshaalllah  

-> Hadith # 692 is an alleged saying by the prophet through Aysha and is identical to the previous hadith nothing new but new chain of hearsayers, for me I still have to dismiss such hadith because (at least) reason 2 presented above regarding hadith # 691

the bottom line is this, I donít need others to tell me that I missed on nothing in my prayers if I started any prayer then the next prayer time started while I have not finished the one Iím doing, IT IS LOGICAL TO BE SUCH CASE, on the other hand the above two hadith # 691 & 692 failed to tell us that it is the case with all five prayers, it only mentioned two of the 5 prayers, it makes you really wonder and possibly get confused, is it only a special case for these two prayers (Fajr & Asr), i.e. if we started any of the following prayers (Zuhr, Maghrib or Isha) and the next salat time started while we have not finished the one we are doing then it is nullified, SEE WHAT IíM TALKING ABOUT, the two hadith above confused a matter that should be logically understood.

Letís move on to sub chapter no. 12, it is named Prohibiting the sleep before the Isha prayer as well prohibiting any talk after finishing it, well, I have to say that this chapter must make 90% of all Muslims GUILTY of not obeying the prophet by talking with others after they finished salat al Isha, letís see how this suppose to work,  this sub chapter has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 693 is not an alleged saying by the prophet, rather someone is alleging that the prophet PREFERRED not to sleep before salat al Isha and when he finished it he PREFERRED not to talk to any one after it, very strange indeed, how they can be sure that he did so every night?, did he talk to any family member (like his wives) after he finished praying salat al Isha? Most certainly he must have done so many nights the least, now we need some hearsay to tell us when we are allowed to talk to others and whom we should talk to after we finish salat al Isha, I doubt we find such hadith, this is because the hadith above does not make any sense to be applied to every believer, I do understand that it may apply to the prophets but the prophet must had special circumstances when he had to talk to his family members  after he finished salat al Isha, see how Ibn Magih titled such sub chapter: Prohibiting the sleep before the Isha prayer as well prohibiting any talk after finishing it, SEE HOW IBN MAGIH USED THE WORD Al Nahai, i.e. Prohibiting, same word used in the Quran as seen in the following verse:

Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):

[The Quran ; 59:7]

مَّا أَفَاء اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينِ وَابْنِ السَّبِيلِ كَيْ لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةً بَيْنَ الْأَغْنِيَاء مِنكُمْ وَمَا آتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُوا وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ (7)

-> The above verse is one of the jokers Al Mushrikoon use against those holding firm to the Quran and follow no sect, see these words at the end of the verse: وَمَا آتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُوا , Wa Ma Atakum Al Rasool Fa Khuzuh Wa Ma Nahakum Anahu Fa Intahu, i.e. and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, , this is exactly what they have to do, to take such sentence of the whole verse and present it alone as if it is independent of what is before it, which is in the same verse, despite the verse above is clear that the prophet was sort of dividing some money or assets obtained from some enemy and within such context then: whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, Ibn Magih though used the word Nahai in the title of sub chapter 12 as if the prophet prohibited sleeping before salat al Isha as well prohibited talking after it, even if the hadith above is true, IT WAS ONLY A PREFERENCE not A LAW, the prophet PREFERRED (Ysttahib) to do so.

-> Hadith # 694 is another useless hadith, it is yet another allegation about the prophet, not a saying by him, this time it is alleged to be by Aysha, and she just repeated the allegation about him in the previous hadith that the prophet never slept before salat al Isha nor he talked after it. I wonder why a wife says so about the prophet?, I guess if the hadith is truthful and he (the prophet) talked with her in any night after he prayed salat al Isha then she must have lied which I doubt to be the case. See how confusing such hadith are.

-> Hadith # 695  is yet another allegation about the prophet, not a saying by him, this time it is alleged by others that the prophet faulted those who talked to each other after they finished salat al Isha. Does not sound like a law to me rather SOMETHING THAT IS MUSTTAHAB i.e. something that is PREFERRRED

Here you have brothers and sisters, why Ibn Magih named this sub chapter using the word Al Nahai, The Prohibition about something that was never prohibited by the prophet?, sounds like those who invent laws that were never sanctioned by Allah nor even sanctioned by His prophet, no wonder he has to call it Sunnan Ibn Magih, i.e. The Sunnan of Ibn Magih, i.e. it was his sunnah not the sunnah of Mohammed and most certainly not the sunnah of Allah

Letís move on to the last sub chapter named The prohibition of saying the prayer of the darkness, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 696  is an allegation by the prophet, sort of an advice not to call salat al Isha as salat al Atma (I.e the prayer of the darkness), the reason the prophet gave was simply, al Araab call it salat al Atma and we should not let them to beat us by changing its name from Isha to Atma, it seems that this hadith implies that al Araab are not the Arabs, possibly some tribes who live in the Arab area and speak an accent of Arabic, regardless of that, the prophet in this hadith prohibited nothing, rather an advise not to call salat al Isha by another name as al Araab do.

-> Hadith # 697  is an allegation by the prophet that goes back to the doubtful Abu Hurairah, it is almost identical to the above hadith but this time Abu Haurairah said it in a way that covers all 5 prayers, i.e. we should not call any of the five prayers other names as the Araab do, then someone named Ibn Harmalah added to what Abu Hurairah said that it is salat al Isha only, sort of he corrected Abu Hurairah that the alleged hadith by the prophet only specific to salat al Isha

Well, this final sub chapter must cause confusion because the prophet and his sahaba were calling salat al Fajr by another name which is salat al Subh as we learnt from Ibn Magih book, is it ok not to call salat al Isha by other name while calling salat al Fajr by other names?, how about the other 3 prayers, can we call any of it by other names, in fact it is alleged that the sahaba were calling salat Al Zuhr as salat Al Hajeer, what is all that confusion man, indeed we learnt almost nothing, most importantly we learnt nothing regarding how to pray any of the five salat nor  how may rakaa each prayer is.

Can you see brothers and sisters that the all 13 sub chapters have absolutely nothing but confusion, I really donít think that all these salat hadith in Ibn Magih book were/are required, it seems he was one of those looking for fame being called a Muhaddith or a hadith collector, donít forget that Ibn Magiih and his likes are part of the hearsay chain.

I seek refuge in Allah

Salam all

       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum
Home|Home|Home|Home|HomeHome|Home|Home|Home|Home