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AhmedBahgat

The amazing Quran

Peace All,

The Sunni and Shia hadith advocates really missed the plot, they are trying to force all the hadith posted in the two Sahih as Sharia laws that has to be believed in and implemented by all Muslims otherwise they will be labelled kafiroon, the problem for them though that Allah never told us as such, He never even stressed any importance to the prophet hadith, in fact the prophet hadith was never mentioned in the Quran, how come then it is sharia laws?, unless we commit shirk and find other laws in addition to the Quran then we bundleled together as one Sharia from God and his partners Naooz Bellah

What the Quran said though is straightforward and clear, our only source of sharia is the Quran, the prophet hadith should only be considered mere teachings from a great man, it is definitely the worst sin to consider the human words equivalent to the God's words and that is exactly what the majority of the Sunni and Shai are doing for many many years

Let's see what Allah said about His Quran, we will see clearly there is nothing like Allah's words, we will also see that the Quran was designed to be easy for remembrance, Allah is responsible for collecting it, guarding it and explaining it, and because it was planned to be the last warning before the Judgment Day, Allah has included all types or parables (that will help us in this tough test) in it :

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

[The Quran , 54: 17 ; 22 ; 32 ; 40 ]

وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ (17)

-> In sura no. 17 the Quran repeated this sentence 4 times in verses 17,22,32,40, indeed Allah has made the Quran easy to remember :And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember, then He is reminding us :then is there any that will receive admonition?, obviously four times this verse was mentioned in the same sura highlights the importance of this piece of information information.


Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.

[The Quran , 44:58]

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (5Cool

-> Another verse that confirms Allah has made the Quran easy on Mohammad (pbuh) tongue, despite Mohammad (pbuh) lacked the knowledge of reading and writing:Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, so the prophet will deliver the Quran to :, in order that they may give heed., so we can understand that the Quran was the only source used by the prophet to deliver Allah message.


So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.

[The Quran , 19:97]

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا (97)

-> Same info in this verse regarding the prophet memorising and understanding the Quran: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, then the prophet will use the Quran to :that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.,


For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.

[The Quran , 7:52]

وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ هُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (52)

-> In this verse it is clear that Allah sent us the Quran, as well Allah explained it in details because it is the guidance and mercy to all believers:For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe., clear as light that Allah explained His book within itself , i.e. the Quran explains itself. As well, many other verses were explained by the prophet as inspired by Allah. Other devote Muslims can also discover the meanings with the help of Allah.


Then what HADITH, after the Quran, will they believe in?

[The Quran , 77:50]

فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ (50)

-> This is an important verse, as it shows us that Allah is asking what other HADITH than the Quran will make people believe?, sure NONE, including the hadith of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the hadith Qudsi as well, the Arabic word used to describe the Quran was HADITHthe same word we use for the prophet sayings, because the Arabic word HADITHmeans TALKor SPEECH, so we have 2 different Hadiths:

A) Hadith by Allah The Quran
B) Hadith by Mohammad The Prophet (pbuh) Sayings

It is very easy to find the major differences between them:

A) is by Allah The Creator, reserved by Allah The Authorand never been changed.
B) is by Mohammad (pbuh) A Human, never been reserved accurately, and many fabricated ones by the enemy of Islam have been invented.

Does anyone fail to recognise which hadith of the above is Holy and which is not?


Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

[The Quran , 2:159]

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلْنَا مِنَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَى مِن بَعْدِ مَا بَيَّنَّاهُ لِلنَّاسِ فِي الْكِتَابِ أُولَئِكَ يَلعَنُهُمُ اللّهُ وَيَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّاعِنُونَ (159)

-> In here we can see, Allah is warning the people who conceal hidethe guidance after He made this guidance clear in the Quran:Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,and the punishment is :on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,, it is clear that Allah is telling us tat all the Guidance is made clear in the Quran. after We have made it clear for the people in the Book


And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy:

[The Quran , 6:155]

وَهَذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَاتَّقُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (155)

-> Allah is telling us in this verse that the Quran is a blessing and WE MUST FOLLOW IT:And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, and for the people who will follow it: that ye may receive mercy:, Allah never told us to follow the hadith of Mohammad, because the ahdith of Mohammad is nothing but mere teachings from a great man.


(2)A Book revealed unto thee,- So let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account,- that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the Believers).

(3)Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.

[The Quran , 7:2-3]

كِتَابٌ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ فَلاَ يَكُن فِي صَدْرِكَ حَرَجٌ مِّنْهُ لِتُنذِرَ بِهِ وَذِكْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ (2)
اتَّبِعُواْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاء قَلِيلاً مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (3)

-> In these 2 verses we have a clear message from Allah that He sent the Quran and the prophet should not be hesitant to warn the people using it TO WARN AND TEACH THE BELIEVERS:Book revealed unto thee,- So let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account,- that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the Believers).. This is very important note, because the Quran is what the prophet have used to teach and warn THE BELIVERS , then Allah is telling us to follow the Quran and NEVER TAKE ANY ONE WHATSOEVERto follow other than Allah:Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as protectors, other than Him. however most humans:Little it is ye remember of admonition., a very strong message to use the Quran as the major source of Sharia, some may think that 7:3 conflicts with all the other verses where Allah told us to follow His prophet, while in here it says only to follow Allah, well, there is no conflict whatsoever becase the prophet delivered what Allah gave him to deliver, the prophet didn't invent anything other than what he was ordered by Allah to invent like how to perform Salat, i.e. all the prophet actions should be qualified by the Quran, therefore following the prophet indeed means following Allah alone, but ONLY if we follow what is qualified by the Quran, in this case we will have a strong argument in our defence if we found ourselves liable of committing shirk (The unforgivable sin)


A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):

[The Quran , 11:1]

الَر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِن لَّدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1)

-> We have seen how Allah stressed in a couple of verses that the Quran is the major source of belief and guidance, we have also read that Allah made it easy for remembrance as well He explained it within itself, in this verse we read that Allah is saying: (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):, ie, the Quran has verses basic or fundamental established meaning, yet Allah further explained it in details, well if you read the Quran a lot you will see the miracle in how the verses relate to each other and NEVER conflict despite the additional info they add to each other to bring a complete story, many things are repeated numerous times using different words with the same exact meanings.


A. L. R. These are the verses of wise Revelation,

[The Quran , 15:1]

الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْحَكِيمِ (1)

-> A short verse to tell us that Quran is obvious to recognise:These are the verses of wise Revelation,, almost all translators translated this verse wrong, they claim it means the Quran makes things clear., however Al Kitab Al Hakimdoes not mean that indeed, it only means that the Quran is obvious to recognise that it is from Allah, but this will be another comment


Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the obvious Book

[The Quran , 12:1]

الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (1)

-> Same is confirmed here, These are the verses of the obvious Book, again many translators translated this verse wrong, they think Al Kitab Al Mubinmeans the book that makes things manifest, but it actually means it is obvious that the book is from our God, this will be explained in details in another comment


Alif Lam Ra. (This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light-- to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One,

[The Quran , 14:1]

الَر كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ لِتُخْرِجَ النَّاسَ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِمْ إِلَى صِرَاطِ الْعَزِيزِ الْحَمِيدِ (1)

-> This verse also shows us the objective of the Quran as the main tool for the prophet to bring the people out of the darkness to the light(This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light, and what is the light? It is: to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One, ie the Quran is the main and most important source to know the way to Allah the Praised One.


And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.

[The Quran , 16:64]

وَمَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ إِلاَّ لِتُبَيِّنَ لَهُمُ الَّذِي اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (64)

-> The verse tells us that the Quran was revealed so people can resolve things in which they differ as Mohammad should have been explaining it to them :And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ,, as well its purpose :and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe., another strong message that highlights the importance of the Quran by Allah, it should be noted that the prophet used the Quran to explain to the people the things in which they have differed, ie. all the hadith of the prophet MUST BE QUALIFIED BY THE QURAN BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY TOOL HE WAS USING ACCORDING TO 16:64, see the Quran qualifies the hadith NOT the other way around


We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is a Message for you: will ye not then understand?

[The Quran , 21:10]

لَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ كِتَابًا فِيهِ ذِكْرُكُمْ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ (10)

-> A straight forward verse :We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is a Message for you, but look how the verse is ending with wonder: : will ye not then understand?, it is like come on, please understand and start pondering upon the Quran.


Surely they who recite the Book of Allah and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly, hope for a gain which will not perish.

[The Quran , 35:29]

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَتْلُونَ كِتَابَ اللَّهِ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنفَقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ سِرًّا وَعَلَانِيَةً يَرْجُونَ تِجَارَةً لَّن تَبُورَ (29)

-> We can see here that Allah is describing the belief in Him as we are tradesman who want to trade and end up with profit, so those tradesmen need to do the following to really profit: NUMBER 1: recite the Book of Allah , NUMBER 2 :keep up prayer NUMBER 3: spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly ie, giving money to the poor, and this tradesmen hoping: hope for a gain which will not perish., but can you see that reading the Quran was NUMBER 1?, also where the hadith of the prophet in there if it was divine as the Sunni and Shia are lying to us?


Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

[The Quran , 35:32]

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُم مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ (32)

-> This verse is very important, it divides the believers into 3 groups in the judgment day, but I will not discuss this in detail for now, however I would love to discuss this verse in great details later inshaallah in another comment, the main important point I want to mention here is, the people who never saw the prophet (pbuh), ONLY INHERTITED the Quran : Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen, i.e. we only have this evidence in our hand


I swear By the obvious Book

[The Quran , 44:2]

وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (2)

-> A small verse that Allah is swearing with the obvious Quran: I swear By the obvious Book, i.e. it is obvious that it is from Allah, hence we can trust it blindly.


Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong)

[The Quran , 2:185]

شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ ..... (185)

-> In this verse a popular one in the Quran, Allah is telling us that He revealed the Quran in the month of Ramadan :Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an,, and why Allah sent the Quran down: as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong), very clear verse about the importance of the Quran. I'd like to add that on the aloners sect web site they falsely claim that Shahrmeans Moonor Full Moon, something on that weird line, this will be another comment on FI to expose their ignorance inshaallah, please stay tuned for that one


Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

[The Quran , 4:82]

أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا (82)

-> This is the verse that the enemy of Islam are obsessed with, I brought it here, because it tells us a very important note, it tells us, if this Quran was made by any other source, we would have find it full of corruptions or discrepancies, Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy., this really means that any other book or hadith may be corrupt or full of discrepancies if Allah was not the Author of it. in fact many of the hadith narrated by many people and relating to the prophet are corrupted and full of discrepancies.


When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace: that ye may receive Mercy.

[The Quran , 7:204]

وَإِذَا قُرِىءَ الْقُرْآنُ فَاسْتَمِعُواْ لَهُ وَأَنصِتُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (204)

-> In this verse Allah is advising us, when the Quran is read we should listen WITH ATTENTION as well hold our peace, When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace:, why?, because :that ye may receive Mercy., where is the hadith of the prophet in here?


We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an.

[The Quran , 15:87]

وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَاكَ سَبْعًا مِّنَ الْمَثَانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ (87)

-> In this small verse Allah is telling prophet Mohammed (pbuh) that He has given him THE GREAT QURAN :We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an., why it is great? Because it is the only guidance that we were asked to follow. Following what was mentioned in the Quran but was never explained like Salat must be referred to the prophet explanation as the Quran told us.


Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

[The Quran , 17:9]

إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)

-> Here, we see that knowing the Quran very well will lead to :Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable) and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, and if we comply :that they shall have a magnificent reward;


We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!

[The Quran , 17:41]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَذَّكَّرُواْ وَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلاَّ نُفُورًا (41)

-> This verse confirms again that Allah :We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition,, however the wicked humans will :but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!.


And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth).

[The Quran , 17:46]

وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَن يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا وَإِذَا ذَكَرْتَ رَبَّكَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ وَحْدَهُ وَلَّوْاْ عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ نُفُورًا (46)

-> And for the wicked , deaf and blind, this is why they will never understand the Quran and they will keep detesting it until they die then they will have the big surprise, there will be no return, they have to take what they earned after rejecting the warning and be patient with the punishment if they can, let's see why they will never understand it:And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears, and these wicked people when they hear the name of Allah mentioned alone in his book: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth)., why Allah said His name alone in the Quran?, he never said His name and His prophet name as He many times said, Obey Allah and His Prophet, this is a verse that we need to discuss in details inshaallah


And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

[The Quran , 17:89]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ فَأَبَى أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ إِلاَّ كُفُورًا (89)

-> In here we read new information about the Quran, that Allah explained every kind of similitude in our life needed to prosper in this test:And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude:, but the dumb, deaf and blind still :yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!, the verse clearly says that the majority of people will reject the Quran,we can see this clearly, can't we?


We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

[The Quran , 18:54]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِلنَّاسِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ أَكْثَرَ شَيْءٍ جَدَلًا (54)

-> The fact mentioned in 17:89 was confirmed again in here: We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude, but again : but man is, in most things, contentious., well, I have seen many of these men on the Internet., it should be noted that Allah never mentioned the hadith of the prophet in these two verses as a source to find any explanation we need, He only mentioned His Quran.


Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

[The Quran , 25:30]

وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ يَا رَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِي اتَّخَذُوا هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ مَهْجُورًا (30)

-> This is a very good verse, Allah is telling us that the prophet on the judgment day will tell Allah that the BELIEVERS The Prophet followershas ignored the Quran:, Then the Messenger will say: O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense., what a strong message from the prophet regarding the Quran this was.


We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss.

[The Quran , 17:82]

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاء وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إَلاَّ خَسَارًا (82)

-> The verse states that the Quran will heal the true believes in it We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe but for the wicked to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss., what a big difference that is.


And to recite the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: "I am only a Warner"

[The Quran , 27:92]

وَأَنْ أَتْلُوَ الْقُرْآنَ فَمَنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدِي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ (92)

-> Allah is telling Mohammad (pbuh) here to use the Quran to guide the people and whoever will believe in it and if they believe they they will do it for their own good: And to recite the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, but if we do not listen then all the prophet has to say that he is only a warner: and if any stray, say: I am only a Warner, NO COMPULSIONS IN ISLAM.


verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable: But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities."

[The Quran , 30:58]

وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَلَئِن جِئْتَهُم بِآيَةٍ لَيَقُولَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا مُبْطِلُونَ (5Cool

-> This is a very good verse, because it is a similitude to something we see a lot online. Every time I show the Quran detesters a miracle in it, they say I'm talking rubbish, let's see this fact in the verse that it started with the following: we will find every kind of Parable in the Quran: verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable: But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities.", can you note this bit ?But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities., exactly as we see online.


I swear by the Quran full of wisdom

[The Quran , 36:2]

وَالْقُرْآنِ الْحَكِيمِ (2)

-> in here Allah is swearing again with the Quran that is full of wisdom I swear by the Quran full of wisdom, Allah never told us that hadith of the prophet is full of wisdom because He never mentioned the hadith of the prophet from the first place.


We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.

[The Quran , 39:27]

وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَّعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (27)

-> Again : have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition., see all what we need to receive admonition IS IN THE QURAN, it was never said IN THE QURAN and THE HADITH of the prophet


(17)It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
(1Cool But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
(19) Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear)

[The Quran , 75:17-19]

إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا جَمْعَهُ وَقُرْآنَهُ (17)
فَإِذَا قَرَأْنَاهُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْآنَهُ (1Cool
ثُمَّ إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا بَيَانَهُ (19)

-> These 3 short verses are telling us clearly that Allah is in charge in collecting and promulgating the Quran,: It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it: then He advised us again that when the Quran is read we should follow it, But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated) and finally Allah is also in charge in explaining it :Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear), He never told us to follow the hadith of the prophet.


Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

[The Quran , 2:136]

قُولُواْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (136)

-> This verse will show you how most Muslims are flawed regarding their excessive praise to Mohammad, in this verse Allah is talking to the believers and is telling them to say :Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: , and THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO THE BELIEVERS IS :We make no difference between one and another of them, can you see how most Muslims are flawed?, well they differentiate between the prophets, in fact it seems that they only care about Mohammad and never even think about the other prophets listed in the above verse, it is clear that Allah is telling the believers not to make any difference between one and another of the prophets, the above law is also repeated in another 3 locations in the Quran


The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[The Quran , 2:258]

آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (285)

-> Again the same advice from Allah that the believers should :make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers., but most Muslims do by raising Mohammad to a level that is higher than all the rest of all the other prophets, you have seen it very well I'm sure


Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

[The Quran , 3:84]

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (84)

-> Again and again, the same law to :make no distinction between one and another among them, well most Muslims failed drastically regarding this important law.


There is no doubt that the Quran is the only guidance and was the only tool the prophet used to call the people to the way of Allah, when we obey him we will be obeying Allah alone, because Mohammad only brought to us what Allah taught him then ordered him to deliver it to us, if any of the laws mentioned in the Quran were not explained like Salat then we must go back to the to the prophet hadith because he has to be the only source to follow in something vital like the Salat, and by doing so we complied by Allah law that the prophet should have taught us things that we didn't know before in addition to Al Kitab wa Al Hikmah, those things were not invented by Mohammad or I should say, it was invented by him but only as guided by Allah and His Quran

Salam
Baal

Your wishful thinking to only apply the koran at the exclusion of all other islamic scripture and knowledge is to be commended. Koran is short on laws and regulations that it can not handle 99.9% of the situations in the real world.

If you only want to apply the koran at the exclusion to all the other crap, then islam will be almost non-existent in the life of an islamic society and that is a GREAT thing. I wish you luck Ahmed, I really do.

But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Your wishful thinking to only apply the koran at the exclusion of all other islamic scripture and knowledge is to be commended. Koran is short on laws and regulations that it can not handle 99.9% of the situations in the real world.

If you only want to apply the koran at the exclusion to all the other crap, then islam will be almost non-existent in the life of an islamic society and that is a GREAT thing. I wish you luck Ahmed, I really do.

But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


Come on Baal,

don't use the confused hadith worshippers lame excuse by bringing 59:7

read the verse again, Wa Ma Atakum Al Rasool Fa Khuzuh , i.e. and what the messneger brought to you, take it, which is the Quran, then the verse said Wa Ma Nahakum Anhu, Fa Intahu, i.e. and What he told you NOT to do then do not do it

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM

that thing must still be qualified by the Quran and the common sense

for example the hearsay hadith that say don't drink while sitting, is contradicted by another one that says don't drink while standing, this means both hadith must go in the rubbish bin

also all hears hadith that are not referring to Mohammed and does not include any "Nahhi", (warning not to do somthing) by him, must be thrown in the rubbish bin, for example

the hadith by the alleged person named Aysha about her alleged age when she married him, in this hearsay the porphet said nothing in it nor we there was in Nahhi (Warning not to so something) in it, therefore that hadith must be thrown in the rubbish bin

I hope you get it by now
Baal

Whatever Ahmed, What Muhammad gave you 'could be' interpreted as koran. But what Muhammad 'forbade' you is NOT the koran.

Twist and Turn all you want, you can not make an exclusive interpretation out of this verse to suit your goal, and the other side that applies hadith and sunna *can* make an exclusive interpretation from this verse.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Whatever Ahmed, What Muhammad gave you 'could be' interpreted as koran. But what Muhammad 'forbade' you is NOT the koran.

Twist and Turn all you want, you can not make an exclusive interpretation out of this verse to suit your goal, and the other side that applies hadith and sunna *can* make an exclusive interpretation from this verse.



You are so deluded mate

so tell me mate:

what Mohammed farbade us in the hearsay hadith by the allged person Aysha regarding her age?

be a man and answer that fukin question please
Baal

Btw, I just read your answer again, this apology of yours is one of the lowest you ever made. Usually I expect much more from you.

Now we have to accept some hadith or sunna only if they forbid? Even though the hadith that forbids suffers from the same problem ALL other hadith & Sunna suffer from?

Nah, what I wrote above still stands, you can not make an exlusive interpretation out of this just to fit your point but the other side can.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Btw, I just read your answer again, this apology of yours is one of the lowest you ever made. Usually I expect much more from you.

Now we have to accept some hadith or sunna only if they forbid? Even though the hadith that forbids suffers from the same problem ALL other hadith & Sunna suffer from?

Nah, what I wrote above still stands, you can not make an exlusive interpretation out of this just to fit your point but the other side can.



What the hell you are going on about?

I'm going with the exact Quran words:

let's assume for now that the verse you brought in means the sayings of the porphet

answer this fukin question please:

what did the prophet bring to us or forbade us from in the hearsay hadith by the alleged person Aysha?

your failure to answer this fukin question will say it all
Mutley

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

Then what HADITH, after the Quran, will they believe in?


It didn't say hadith, only nutcase Rashad conveniently interprets that way. Are you going to believe a guy who claimed he was a prophet after Muhammad? Sure you will. You'll believe anything, as long as it meets your needs.

077:050
077:050 Khan Then in what statement after this (the Qur'an) will they believe?
077:050 Maulana In what narration after it, will they believe?
077:050 Pickthal In what statement, after this, will they believe?
077:050 Rashad Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
077:050 Sarwar In which word other than the Quran will they believe?.
077:050 Shakir In what announcement, then, after it, will they believe?
077:050 Sherali In what discourse then, after this, will they believe?
077:050 Yusufali Then what Message, after that, will they believe in?
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

Then what HADITH, after the Quran, will they believe in?


It didn't say hadith, only nutcase Rashad conveniently interprets that way. Are you going to believe a guy who claimed he was a prophet after Muhammad? Sure you will. You'll believe anything, as long as it meets your needs.

077:050
077:050 Khan Then in what statement after this (the Qur'an) will they believe?
077:050 Maulana In what narration after it, will they believe?
077:050 Pickthal In what statement, after this, will they believe?
077:050 Rashad Which Hadith, other than this, do they uphold?
077:050 Sarwar In which word other than the Quran will they believe?.
077:050 Shakir In what announcement, then, after it, will they believe?
077:050 Sherali In what discourse then, after this, will they believe?
077:050 Yusufali Then what Message, after that, will they believe in?


Mute

The arabic word in the verse is Hadith, nutcase R K didn't translate it actually

please dismiss your stupid pinhead in the nearest dumbster where Rashad Khalifa is burried
Mutley

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!
BMZ

Baal wrote:
Whatever Ahmed, What Muhammad gave you 'could be' interpreted as koran. But what Muhammad 'forbade' you is NOT the koran.

Twist and Turn all you want, you can not make an exclusive interpretation out of this verse to suit your goal, and the other side that applies hadith and sunna *can* make an exclusive interpretation from this verse.


Baal,

Ahle-Hadith use this verse 59:7 along with another "Fas'aloo ahlaz-zikray in kuntum laa ta'alamoon" to force every Muslim to accept each and every Hadith, even though it may be da'eef or from an unreliable narrator.

In order to understand 59:7, don't try to understand on it's own. The message starts at 59:6 and goes on upto 59:9.

What is the topic? The topic is the distribution of spoils gained after victory. God had given the authority to the prophet to distribute the spoils, which should go to the next of kin of the dead who fought for Allah, the orphans and the needy and the one travelling in the way of Allah. It was to make sure that the rich did not get richer and instead of the spoils circulating among them, they went to the needy like the Muhajirs, who were homeless and poor. The Ansaars were already helping in accomodating and feeding them.

Now the meaning of the verse in question is not really: "Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."

You may know how to read, write and understand Arabic, but you will never be able to undersatnd the message and you will not be able to explain it well, if you follow that literal translation, Baal. To understand the message, you will have to continue reading into 59:8.

First, the vesre spoke about distributing the spoils to the poor and the deserving needy but it continues to include those who left left their homes when they were expelled from Mecca. Thus the houses left behind were to be given to accomodate these people. That property could not have been given to the rich of Medinah.

The people of Medinah were already kind and gracious. They could have thought for a moment why all the spoils were being given to others, not them?

In other words they are being asked to refrain from asking part of the spoils for themselves as they were Ghani (rich or not-needy).

Thus the correct meaning and interpretation is: "Accept whatever the Prophet gives you and refrain from demanding anything that he withholds from you."

In simple language, "Take what he gives you and if he does not give you, do not demand."

It took me time to think and write my heart out on this, so, I hope this helped. Ahmed is right in saying that this is not a confirmation of Prophet giving Hadith. The verse has nothing to with Hadith.

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Mutley wrote:
Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering


Mute, this hearsay hadith contradict the Quran, because the people of Kahf in sura 18, had a dog in their cave who died with them for about 300 years, in fact it is like the dog was honoured by been mentioned in the Quran, therefore this hadith is doubtful and must be dismissed


Mutley wrote:

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).


Dismissed as explained before


Mutley wrote:
Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.


Dismissed because water in the Quran is what we should use to be clean and if there is no water then in the case of wudu the Quran told us to Natayamam, and that has nothing to do with wiping our arses with rocks, i.e. the hadith must be dismissed, however if you like inserting objects in your bum you may follow such crap

Mutley wrote:

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


keep bringing them, but hey 3 max at one comment, if you bring momre than 3 then I will dismiss the while coimment
AhmedBahgat

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Whatever Ahmed, What Muhammad gave you 'could be' interpreted as koran. But what Muhammad 'forbade' you is NOT the koran.

Twist and Turn all you want, you can not make an exclusive interpretation out of this verse to suit your goal, and the other side that applies hadith and sunna *can* make an exclusive interpretation from this verse.


Baal,

Ahle-Hadith use this verse 59:7 along with another "Fas'aloo ahlaz-zikray in kuntum laa ta'alamoon" to force every Muslim to accept each and every Hadith, even though it may be da'eef or from an unreliable narrator.

In order to understand 59:7, don't try to understand on it's own. The message starts at 59:6 and goes on upto 59:9.

What is the topic? The topic is the distribution of spoils gained after victory. God had given the authority to the prophet to distribute the spoils, which should go to the next of kin of the dead who fought for Allah, the orphans and the needy and the one travelling in the way of Allah. It was to make sure that the rich did not get richer and instead of the spoils circulating among them, they went to the needy like the Muhajirs, who were homeless and poor. The Ansaars were already helping in accomodating and feeding them.

Now the meaning of the verse in question is not really: "Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."

You may know how to read, write and understand Arabic, but you will never be able to undersatnd the message and you will not be able to explain it well, if you follow that literal translation, Baal. To understand the message, you will have to continue reading into 59:8.

First, the vesre spoke about distributing the spoils to the poor and the deserving needy but it continues to include those who left left their homes when they were expelled from Mecca. Thus the houses left behind were to be given to accomodate these people. That property could not have been given to the rich of Medinah.

The people of Medinah were already kind and gracious. They could have thought for a moment why all the spoils were being given to others, not them?

In other words they are being asked to refrain from asking part of the spoils for themselves as they were Ghani (rich or not-needy).

Thus the correct meaning and interpretation is: "Accept whatever the Prophet gives you and refrain from demanding anything that he withholds from you."

In simple language, "Take what he gives you and if he does not give you, do not demand."

It took me time to think and write my heart out on this, so, I hope this helped. Ahmed is right in saying that this is not a confirmation of Prophet giving Hadith. The verse has nothing to with Hadith.

BMZ


Thanks for the helping hand bro, what you said aboe is 100% right

Thanks
HomoErectus

Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......

Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Btw, I just read your answer again, this apology of yours is one of the lowest you ever made. Usually I expect much more from you.

Now we have to accept some hadith or sunna only if they forbid? Even though the hadith that forbids suffers from the same problem ALL other hadith & Sunna suffer from?

Nah, what I wrote above still stands, you can not make an exlusive interpretation out of this just to fit your point but the other side can.



What the hell you are going on about?

I'm going with the exact Quran words:

let's assume for now that the verse you brought in means the sayings of the porphet

answer this fukin question please:

what did the prophet bring to us or forbade us from in the hearsay hadith by the alleged person Aysha?

your failure to answer this fukin question will say it all

Yawn... Muhammad did not write his own hadith down, so that narrow our options down. The ONLY option is to get what people close to Muhammad & historians claim he said and did. And considering how Muhammad is held in such a godly status, where people even insulting him would be getting killed. I do not see hadith makers making up incorrect uncomplimentary hadith about him, I can only expect them to 'remove' the bad stuff.

BTW: Do you really have to ask me what does the 15 hadith by aisha is permitting us? I will give you a hint, it starts with "P" and rhymes with diarrhea.
Mutley

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:


Mute, this hearsay hadith contradict the Quran, because the people of Kahf in sura 18, had a dog in their cave who died with them for about 300 years


The dog died with them for 300 years?? Laughing

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

in fact it is like the dog was honoured by been mentioned in the Quran, therefore this hadith is doubtful and must be dismissed


Well, the Shayatin is mentioned in the Quran too, so I guess it was honoring him as well.



I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

Mutley wrote:
Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food. Laughing


Dismissed because water in the Quran is what we should use to be clean


There's water in the Quran, and we use the Quran's water to wipe our bums? Laughing

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

and if there is no water then in the case of wudu the Quran told us to Natayamam, and that has nothing to do with wiping our arses with rocks, i.e. the hadith must be dismissed, however if you like inserting objects in your bum you may follow such crap


Wait a second, you said if the hadith prohibits us from doing something, then that hadith is true. Now you flip flop. That figures. Waffler. You have more waffles then a House of Pancakes. Laughing
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Whatever Ahmed, What Muhammad gave you 'could be' interpreted as koran. But what Muhammad 'forbade' you is NOT the koran.

Twist and Turn all you want, you can not make an exclusive interpretation out of this verse to suit your goal, and the other side that applies hadith and sunna *can* make an exclusive interpretation from this verse.


Baal,

Ahle-Hadith use this verse 59:7 along with another "Fas'aloo ahlaz-zikray in kuntum laa ta'alamoon" to force every Muslim to accept each and every Hadith, even though it may be da'eef or from an unreliable narrator.

Hello BMZ,

Not at all, muslims believe that there are levels of hadith and that there is certain criteria to be followed before a hadith is accepted. It is actually a strawman to try to claim that a muslim is trying to force other muslims to accept each and every hadith.


BMZ wrote:

In order to understand 59:7, don't try to understand on it's own. The message starts at 59:6 and goes on upto 59:9.

What is the topic? The topic is the distribution of spoils gained after victory. God had given the authority to the prophet to distribute the spoils, which should go to the next of kin of the dead who fought for Allah, the orphans and the needy and the one travelling in the way of Allah. It was to make sure that the rich did not get richer and instead of the spoils circulating among them, they went to the needy like the Muhajirs, who were homeless and poor. The Ansaars were already helping in accomodating and feeding them.

Now the meaning of the verse in question is not really: "Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."

You may know how to read, write and understand Arabic, but you will never be able to undersatnd the message and you will not be able to explain it well, if you follow that literal translation, Baal. To understand the message, you will have to continue reading into 59:8.

First, the vesre spoke about distributing the spoils to the poor and the deserving needy but it continues to include those who left left their homes when they were expelled from Mecca. Thus the houses left behind were to be given to accomodate these people. That property could not have been given to the rich of Medinah.

The people of Medinah were already kind and gracious. They could have thought for a moment why all the spoils were being given to others, not them?

In other words they are being asked to refrain from asking part of the spoils for themselves as they were Ghani (rich or not-needy).

Thus the correct meaning and interpretation is: "Accept whatever the Prophet gives you and refrain from demanding anything that he withholds from you."

In simple language, "Take what he gives you and if he does not give you, do not demand."

It took me time to think and write my heart out on this, so, I hope this helped. Ahmed is right in saying that this is not a confirmation of Prophet giving Hadith. The verse has nothing to with Hadith.

BMZ

Yes BMZ, you want to accept this story only as 'history'. An event that passed and can never be replicated because Mr.Muhammad is dead now. Again, I wish muslims will accept your interpretation of the koran as a history book and leave the Koran events to where they belonged. Unfortunately, your interpretation is not exclusive for the following reason:

The koran tries to cover a very big subject with only 6000+ verses. So whenever a story or a parable is made in the koran, morals and interpretations have to be made that can apply today if possible, in our life.

So I agree with the interpretation of muslims unfortunately. I mean if Mr.Muhammad permitted and forbade some loot to some people, why does it matter to us? why write it in the koran, why do we care that he permitted and forbade and managed the sharing of some loot.

And to make things worse BMZ, you will never really understand what loot Mr.Muhammad was sharing and why unless you read the hadith and Sirat.

So to apply this verse on the life of muslims, will mean that we have to know what did muhammad permit and what did he forbid. And the only way we can do that is by learning about what he said and did.
Mutley

My God, I read the entire Sura 59. How in God's name can Muslims make the claim that Muhammad only fought in defense. How can they lie to people like this? It's disgraceful.

059.002
YUSUFALI: It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)!


059.004
YUSUFALI: That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger: and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment.

Who is this? The Borg? Resistance is futile?

059.007
YUSUFALI: What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from the people of the townships,- belongs to Allah,- to His Messenger and to kindred and orphans, the needy and the wayfarer; In order that it may not (merely) make a circuit between the wealthy among you. So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you. And fear Allah; for Allah is strict in Punishment.

Believe it or not, Al Capone used to give to community people in need, of course, after he got a large enough cut for himself.

059.012
YUSUFALI: If they are expelled, never will they go out with them; and if they are attacked (in fight), they will never help them; and if they do help them, they will turn their backs; so they will receive no help.

059.013
YUSUFALI: Of a truth ye are stronger (than they) because of the terror in their hearts, (sent) by Allah. This is because they are men devoid of understanding.

Oh these poor poor defensive Muslim little lambs  Laughing  

We dooz not cause terror, eet ees Allah.  Laughing


059.014
YUSUFALI: They will not fight you (even) together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Strong is their fighting (spirit) amongst themselves: thou wouldst think they were united, but their hearts are divided: that is because they are a people devoid of wisdom.

What are the poor poor defensive little Muslim lambs doing fighting behind THEIR walls??

Every time I hear this "ooo oo no, no no no, prophet Muhammad only fight een defense" it makes me want to absolutely puke. How could you be such liars?" How do you actually look at people straight in the face and tell them this?

Esslam ees religion of piece. Ooo, I mean pieces as we will cut you to pieces.
AhmedBahgat

iBaal I meant Aysha hearsay hadith regarding her age of marriage

but dont worry it is time to dismiss your crap:


Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Btw, I just read your answer again, this apology of yours is one of the lowest you ever made. Usually I expect much more from you.

Now we have to accept some hadith or sunna only if they forbid? Even though the hadith that forbids suffers from the same problem ALL other hadith & Sunna suffer from?

Nah, what I wrote above still stands, you can not make an exlusive interpretation out of this just to fit your point but the other side can.



What the hell you are going on about?

I'm going with the exact Quran words:

let's assume for now that the verse you brought in means the sayings of the porphet

answer this fukin question please:

what did the prophet bring to us or forbade us from in the hearsay hadith by the alleged person Aysha?

your failure to answer this fukin question will say it all

Yawn... Muhammad did not write his own hadith down, so that narrow our options down. The ONLY option is to get what people close to Muhammad & historians claim he said and did.  And considering how Muhammad is held in such a godly status, where people even insulting him would be getting killed. I do not see hadith makers making up incorrect uncomplimentary hadith about him, I can only expect them to 'remove' the bad stuff.

BTW: Do you really have to ask me what does the 15 hadith by aisha is permitting us? I will give you a hint, it starts with "P" and rhymes with diarrhea.



Dismissed
AhmedBahgat

Time to dismiss doggy mute as well:

Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:


Mute, this hearsay hadith contradict the Quran, because the people of Kahf in sura 18, had a dog in their cave who died with them for about 300 years


The dog died with them for 300 years?? Laughing

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

in fact it is like the dog was honoured by been mentioned in the Quran, therefore this hadith is doubtful and must be dismissed


Well, the Shayatin is mentioned in the Quran too, so I guess it was honoring him as well.



I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

Mutley wrote:
Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.  Laughing  


Dismissed because water in the Quran is what we should use to be clean


There's water in the Quran, and we use the Quran's water to wipe our bums?  Laughing

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

and if there is no water then in the case of wudu the Quran told us to Natayamam, and that has nothing to do with wiping our arses with rocks, i.e. the hadith must be dismissed, however if you like inserting objects in your bum you may follow such crap


Wait a second, you said if the hadith prohibits us from doing something, then that hadith is true. Now you flip flop. That figures. Waffler. You have more waffles then a House of Pancakes.  Laughing


Dismissed
BMZ

Baal wrote:
The koran tries to cover a very big subject with only 6000+ verses. So whenever a story or a parable is made in the koran, morals and interpretations have to be made that can apply today if possible, in our life.


Doesn't matter if there are 6,000+ words. Take for example the Greek New Testament. There are 138,020 words in there but was the message clear. The book is still ambiguous. It took another 138,000,020 of others' words to tell the people that God was triune and millions of words are being added to prove that.

Qur'aan is the precis of the past Scriptures and all the redundant material is out. It cut all the long stories written by men, short.

I have explained the verse to you.

Baal wrote:
And to make things worse BMZ, you will never really understand what loot Mr.Muhammad was sharing and why unless you read the hadith and Sirat.


I don't have to read the Sirah as written by wikiIslam, Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq and the likes. I know the Sirah of my Prophet well, so please don't patronise. The loot which you mention is known as Spoils. Read the other Holy Scriptures for the word.

One request: Please write the prophet's name properly as Muhammad, without adding your own "niceties". You can do that on FFI but should not do that here as I am in Jesus Mode. Thanks in anticipation.

BMZ
AhmedBahgat

See brother BMZ

Even if we assume that verse presented by Baal is the license to obey the hadith, there are many hadith that don't end up wiith a prophet saying in their chain of hearsay nor it was some teaching to take nor it was forbidiing anything, therefore this stupid argument presenetd by Baal must be dismissed because this means all those written books are contaminated with other shit that we don't need to know about, also the hadith worshippers ignore the fact that Mohammed himself as documented in there man made hadith FORBADE writing any hadith in any book but the Quran, therefore based on confused and hadith worshipper Baal argument, those who follow these man made books are not really following the prophet, here it is again mate:

One of the popular  Muhadiths (hearsayers) was Ahmed ibn Hanbal, his book  Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal , commonly known as Musnad Ahmed  is number 7 in the primary sources of hadith list above,
Bukhari enjoyed the friendship and respect of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, and was persecuted because he held to Ibn Hanbal's views in matter of creed Aqidah as I stated earlier, however Ahmed ibn Hanbal has reported to us at least 5 times in his hearsay book that the prophet ordered his sahaba not to write anything he says in a book but the Quran and if they do they should have deleted it:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=10713

Ismael TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said  do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted


http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=10715

Shoaib TOLD us that Hammam SAID that Zaid ibn Aslam TRANSFERRED from Ibn Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said  do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything, it should be deleted


http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=10781

Yazeed TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said  do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted


http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=10966

Abu Ubaidah TOLD us that Hammam ibn Yahya TRANSFERRED from Zaid ibn Aslam who TRANSFERRED from Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said  do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything, it should be deleted


http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=6&Rec=11160

Affan TOLD us that Hammam TOLD us that Zaid ibn Aslam TRANSFERRED from Ibn Yassar who TOLD that Abi Saeed SAID:

The messenger of Allah (Salla Allahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said  do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran, it should be deleted


For Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (who was a good friend to Bukhari) to inform us 5 times in his book Musnad Ahmed that the prophet said do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it, means that he convicted himself and his friend Bukhari as charged of  violating what the prophet ordered all the sahaba to do, this also means that Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmed ibn Hanbal and their likes were not really obeying the prophet as we are ordered to do by Allah:

And obey Allah and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that only a clear deliverance of the message is (incumbent) on Our messenger.

[The Quran ; 5:92]

وَأَطِيعُواْ اللّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ الرَّسُولَ وَاحْذَرُواْ فَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّمَا عَلَى رَسُولِنَا الْبَلاَغُ الْمُبِينُ (92)

-> See, obey Allah and obey the messenger and be cautious , but Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmed and their likes didn’t do that they BLATANTLY AND BOLDLY disobeyed the prophet when they alleged that he said: do not write anything I say but the Quran and whoever writes anything but the Quran should delete it

Now to rectify this problem that caused the divsion of Islam and made them questionable regarding Shirk, all these books must be deleted according to their own hearsay.
-------------------------

The above means that the verse Baal brought in which is the same one the hadith worshippers use must mean something else and not the hadith of Mohammed, and most certainly it means what you stated earleir

Cheers
Baal

Hello Ahmed,

The part you dismissed earlier is you running away. AS to the verse you mention: "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad"?

Obeying Allah, we understand that means obeying the koran, but Obeying Muhammad as well? That is Hadith & Sunna.

And as for Muhammad asking us to delete everything written about him, that hadith will be thrown out because of its contradiction to the koran. How can we follow the "Uswa Hasana" if we do not know how he led his life.

Any hadith that contradicts the koran, muslims will throw out. Like they will throw you out (or in, like throw you in jail in your home country, for example).

Maybe the Hadith is true, maybe Mr.Muhammad was ashamed of his actions being written down. He was ashamed that he knew that it will be mostly bad, with almost no good actions to balance the bad ones. So he ordered you to remove everything written about him.

But end of the day, the hadith contradicts the koran.
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Hello Ahmed,

The part you dismissed earlier is you running away. AS to the verse you mention: "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad"?

Obeying Allah, we understand that means obeying the koran, but Obeying Muhammad as well? That is Hadith & Sunna.

And as for Muhammad asking us to delete everything written about him, that hadith will be thrown out because of its contradiction to the koran. How can we follow the "Uswa Hasana" if we do not know how he led his life.

Any hadith that contradicts the koran, muslims will throw out. Like they will throw you out (or in, like throw you in jail in your home country, for example).

Maybe the Hadith is true, maybe Mr.Muhammad was ashamed of his actions being written down. He was ashamed that he knew that it will be mostly bad, with almost no good actions to balance the bad ones. So he ordered you to remove everything written about him.

But end of the day, the hadith contradicts the koran.


Hello baal

Of course the hadith contradicts the Quran, that is why the hadith must be dismissed in favour of the Quran, and not just the hadith, but the bible also contradicts the Quran, anad again that is why the bible must be dismissed in favour of the Quran

Now for obeying Allah and Mohammed

can you please tell me, Did Allah only say to obey those two or He also ordered us to obey others?

cheers
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
The koran tries to cover a very big subject with only 6000+ verses. So whenever a story or a parable is made in the koran, morals and interpretations have to be made that can apply today if possible, in our life.


Doesn't matter if there are 6,000+ words. Take for example the Greek New Testament. There are 138,020 words in there but was the message clear. The book is still ambiguous. It took another 138,000,020 of others' words to tell the people that God was triune and millions of words are being added to prove that.

Qur'aan is the precis of the past Scriptures and all the redundant material is out. It cut all the long stories written by men, short.

I have explained the verse to you.

Baal wrote:
And to make things worse BMZ, you will never really understand what loot Mr.Muhammad was sharing and why unless you read the hadith and Sirat.


I don't have to read the Sirah as written by wikiIslam, Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq and the likes. I know the Sirah of my Prophet well, so please don't patronise. The loot which you mention is known as Spoils. Read the other Holy Scriptures for the word.

One request: Please write the prophet's name properly as Muhammad, without adding your own "niceties". You can do that on FFI but should not do that here as I am in Jesus Mode. Thanks in anticipation.

BMZ

Hello BMZ,

Your answer does not cover the fact that people still need to find their guidance in the koran and will look for it. Whenever a story is given, they will locate its meaning in the present day.

Mr.Muhammad told us things and forbade things on a certain day? Then the rules must still be applied today. So let's find out what he allowed and what he forbade.


By stating redundancy is removed from the koran, you seem to have not understood the koran. The koran is very repetitive. The same stories and the same similies are picked in many different Suras.

When muslim scholars are confronted with the Repetition, otherwise known as redundancy, they reply that the repetition is the best way for teaching.

In fact the koran is so repetitive that apologetic translators often avoid using the same translated words just to make the book have more variety.

As for stating the koran is precise, that is another misconception you have about the koran. You should watch how Ahmed Bahgat tries to explain how words like then and moreover and AND and OR are used interchangeably willy nilly. A precise language, like a legal document, has a much different (higher) standard then the standard set by the koran.


BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
And to make things worse BMZ, you will never really understand what loot Mr.Muhammad was sharing and why unless you read the hadith and Sirat.


I don't have to read the Sirah as written by wikiIslam, Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq and the likes. I know the Sirah of my Prophet well, so please don't patronise.

Hello BMZ, You are debating at a different table. I do not really care where you get your Sirat from. You can get it from a roll of toilet paper I have if it means something to you. The topic of discussion is that Ahmed does not want Muslims to get their moral system from ANY Seera or Hadith.

BMZ wrote:
The loot which you mention is known as Spoils. Read the other Holy Scriptures for the word.

Oh my God, you are actually stating this? I can not really think of anything to say in reply to what you just said.
"Forgive them Father for they do not Know what they are doing"

BMZ wrote:
One request: Please write the prophet's name properly as Muhammad, without adding your own "niceties". You can do that on FFI but should not do that here as I am in Jesus Mode. Thanks in anticipation.

BMZ

The defendant will be afforded the most respect possible whether later found innocent or guilty.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
Hello Ahmed,

The part you dismissed earlier is you running away. AS to the verse you mention: "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad"?

Obeying Allah, we understand that means obeying the koran, but Obeying Muhammad as well? That is Hadith & Sunna.

And as for Muhammad asking us to delete everything written about him, that hadith will be thrown out because of its contradiction to the koran. How can we follow the "Uswa Hasana" if we do not know how he led his life.

Any hadith that contradicts the koran, muslims will throw out. Like they will throw you out (or in, like throw you in jail in your home country, for example).

Maybe the Hadith is true, maybe Mr.Muhammad was ashamed of his actions being written down. He was ashamed that he knew that it will be mostly bad, with almost no good actions to balance the bad ones. So he ordered you to remove everything written about him.

But end of the day, the hadith contradicts the koran.


Hello baal

Of course the hadith contradicts the Quran, that is why the hadith must be dismissed in favour of the Quran, and not just the hadith, but the bible also contradicts the Quran, anad again that is why the bible must be dismissed in favour of the Quran

Now for obeying Allah and Mohammed

can you please tell me, Did Allah only say to obey those two or He also ordered us to obey others?

cheers

Ahmed, "You" have to dismiss them, not me. You are the one stating that anything contradicting the koran has to be dismissed. You are the one locking yourself in that box. So you are welcome to dismiss the Hadith and the Bible.

The problem is, in your koran box, it does not state the previous books are modified and it orders you to rely on them. Yet you can not find when in history did those books get modified "AFTER" the Koran. When did the recall of the existing books (Bibles) happen so they can get modified? And then such a Universal recall is made, just to modify some inconsequential events? Ahmed, your universe is flawed. And to make it worse, such a complex feat, among warring sects and warring nations, and Allah permits such a large scale corruption that *IS* trivial to expose.

As for who to obey, in most verses it said: "Fear & Worship Allah and Obey me." And in couple verses it said: "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad". So make up your mind. It also said follow the Uswa Hasana.

Good Luck,
AhmedBahgat

Baal wrote:
Ahmed, "You" have to dismiss them, not me. You are the one stating that anything contradicting the koran has to be dismissed.


Of course I'm talking about a Quran believer point of view, however those Quran believers who don't do that, can't be considered as Quran believers, for example those who go for the hadith of killing the adulterers over the Quran must not be Quran believers, but because they claim to be then they convicted themselves with the worst crime (SHIRK)

Baal wrote:
You are the one locking yourself in that box. So you are welcome to dismiss the Hadith and the Bible.


Sure

Baal wrote:
The problem is, in your koran box, it does not state the previous books are modified and it orders you to rely on them. Yet you can not find when in history did those books get modified "AFTER" the Koran. When did the recall of the existing books (Bibles) happen so they can get modified? And then such a Universal recall is made, just to modify some inconsequential events? Ahmed, your universe is flawed. And to make it worse, such a complex feat, among warring sects and warring nations, and Allah permits such a large scale corruption that *IS* trivial to expose.


dismissed

Baal wrote:
As for who to obey, in most verses it said: "Fear & Worship Allah and Obey me." And in couple verses it said: "Obey Allah and Obey Muhammad". So make up your mind. It also said follow the Uswa Hasana.

Good Luck,


That is the wrong answer of course, but I will elaborate on that in a later comment, I will leave you with somting from my Quran box:

The Human Dignity


At Sahara web site (www.councilofexmuslims.com), a kafir raised the following question:

In 2:256 we read that there is no compulsion in the religion:

There is no compulsion in the religion; indeed the right path has become distinct from error; so whoever disbelieves in the evil and believes in Allah, he indeed has grasped on the firmest handle, no break in it, and Allah is all-Hearing, all-Knowing.

[The Quran ; 2:256]

لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ (256)


Then in verse 2:257 that follows the above verse, we read that those who reject the faith will be punished by horrible hell:

Allah is the Guardian of those who believed. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and those who disbelieved, their guardians are the evil ones, they (the evil ones) take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the companions of the fire, they shall in it abide.

[The Quran ; 2:257]

اللّهُ وَلِيُّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّوُرِ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُمُ الطَّاغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ النُّورِ إِلَى الظُّلُمَاتِ أُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ (257)


Here is the kafir question:
Quote:
I dunno about you, but burning someone in the hell fire forever because they 'rejected faith' sounds very much like religious compulsion to me. Is Allah contradicting himself here?


For the kafir, when Allah says: there is no compulsion in the religion then says: those who reject faith will be punished bad, it means Allah contradicted Himself.

Well, the kafir is missing a few crucial points that caused his confusion, firstly the kafir is using the Quran as evidences to prove his allegation against Allah, therefore using the Quran against him is the best way to totally prove his ignorance of the same book he is using, this means the kafir didn’t really read the Quran and understood the message in it, rather parroted the same expired rants against Allah.

Let me start with the first crucial point the kafir missed, which is found in the Quran of course:

In the following verse Allah clearly stated that humans were only created but to worship Him, not to enjoy this life nor to have a free ride so they do what they want, let’s have a look:

56: And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me.

57: I do not desire from them any sustenance and I do not desire that they should feed Me.

58: For Allah is He Who gives (all) Sustenance,- Lord of Power, The Strong.

[The Quran ; 51:56-58]

وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ (56)
مَا أُرِيدُ مِنْهُم مِّن رِّزْقٍ وَمَا أُرِيدُ أَن يُطْعِمُونِ (57)
إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الرَّزَّاقُ ذُو الْقُوَّةِ الْمَتِينُ (5Cool

-> See above: And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me., forget the Jinn for now, let’s just concentrate on our race, the humans, clearly we are only created BUT to worship Him, worshipping Him is not by providing to Him or by feeding Him: I do not desire from them any sustenance and I do not desire that they should feed Me. this is because For Allah is He Who gives (all) Sustenance,- Lord of Power, The Strong, therefore according to the same book that the kafir is using, the humans are only created BUT to worship the creator, I will elaborate on worshipping the creator later on and explain what it means.

The objective of creating the humans BUT to worship Allah, is not explicit to the human race, rather EVERYTHING that Allah created must be created for that reason only, which is to only worship Allah.

See the next verse:

Do they seek other than the religion of Allah, and to Him, whoever is in the heavens and the earth submitted willingly and unwillingly, and to Him, they shall be returned?

[The Quran ; 3:83]

أَفَغَيْرَ دِينِ اللّهِ يَبْغُونَ وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا وَإِلَيْهِ يُرْجَعُونَ (83)

-> See: and to Him, whoever is in the heavens and the earth submitted willingly and unwillingly, that is the only two options all other creatures but humans have, to submit WILLINGLY or UNWILLINGLY, unwillingly means to be FORCED to do it, i.e. UNWILLINGLY means to do it without any choice that you can make.

Of course Allah can make all His creatures to submit to Him with force, but in such case there will be NO REWARD, and for eternity we will be worshipping Him day and night No future prospects, the concept in this case sounds flawed, surely if we are forced to submit to Him, it indirectly means that we have no dignity, there is no shame of having no dignity when it comes to obeying Allah, however I’m talking from the logic point of view, that if we are forced to do something that we don’t want to do then we are treated with no dignity. See how Allah wants to keep our dignity, at least how we feel towards ourselves from the human perspective. This is because Allah is not going to force us worship Him UNWILLINGLY, can you also see above that Allah is using such argument against the human unbelievers, i.e. the human unbelievers are excluded from using force against them to serve Allah unwillingly in this life. The believers however serve Allah willingly.

The above message is stressed in another location:

And whoever is in the heavens and the earth makes obeisance to Allah only, willingly and unwillingly, and their shadows too at morn and eve.

[The Quran ; 13:15]

وَلِلّهِ يَسْجُدُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا وَظِلالُهُم بِالْغُدُوِّ وَالآصَالِ (15)

-> See: And whoever is in the heavens and the earth makes obeisance to Allah only, willingly and unwillingly

Let me show you a couple of examples to some creatures that have no choice. The first example is the angels, now some may think that the angels are higher creatures than the humans because they posses more power than the humans. This is indeed wrong, in fact the Humans are higher than the angels at least in the eyes of Allah, it  is because the angels will spend eternity worshipping Allah while having no reward at any point of time, they have no choice but to do so (worshipping Allah), however they are smart enough to do it willingly and not been forced to do it, because if they refuse to do willingly, Force will be used to make them do it unwillingly to fulfil their creation role, the angels indeed only do what Allah orders them to do, they can never do anything out of their desires:

O you who believe! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones; over it are angels stern and strong, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded.

[The Quran ; 66:6]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ عَلَيْهَا مَلَائِكَةٌ غِلَاظٌ شِدَادٌ لَا يَعْصُونَ اللَّهَ مَا أَمَرَهُمْ وَيَفْعَلُونَ مَا يُؤْمَرُونَ (6)

-> See how the promised hell above is for the believers and not the unbelievers: O you who believe! save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones;, so those ignorant kafirs who rants about the promised hell for them, should shut up because 66:6 above is telling us that hell is also promised to the believers (that is if they commit sins of course and Allah does not forgive them), we are told that over that hell there are tough angels that only do what they are ordered to do: over it are angels stern and strong, they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them, and do as they are commanded., now compare this with the humans, do the humans do what Allah commanded them to do?, NO, this is because Allah set different rules to how the human race should worship Him, He made it TEMP for the human race, nor for eternity as He did with the angels who will have no reward, would you rather be an angel than being a human?, I guess not because there will be no prospect to you to advance to whatever.

Another creature(s) are the mighty heaven and earth, let’s see how they have been treated by Allah:

Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is smoke, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

[The Quran ; 41:11]

ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ اِئْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ (11)

-> See what was the options for the heaven and earth: He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly., see what the heaven and earth replied with: They both said: We come willingly., they knew that if they refuse to do their course (worshipping Allah) willingly then they will be FORCED to do it unwillingly and the course of Allah must stay unchanged, He created them for a role and they have to do such role exactly like the angels, Are the humans smart as the heaven and earth to realize that they  have no choice but to submit willingly to the One who created them?

Well, the humans have different sets of rules to the ones the angels or the heaven and earth have, the humans are higher than all those creatures, all these creatures were created but to serve the humans as well serving the creator., by them serving the humans, it has to be serving the creator because they are fulfilling their roles that they were only created for. No free rides for them. if they won’t fit their roles willingly, they WILL FIT IT UNWILLINGLY, by force, it will never happen to them though because they know 100% that Allah exists as they know that they will have no reward.

The humans however have a short free ride (no force in it), this is because they have different set of rules, they still share with all others creatures that they are only created but to serve Allah as I have shown earlier, however they will not be compelled by any force in this short free ride to unwillingly submit to Allah. that is what 2:256 means, i.e. if Allah won’t compel any human to believe in this short life then human can not compel other humans to believe in Allah during this short ride, and because there will be a reward as well  the worshipping according to their set of rule is TEMP (this short life), i.e. not for eternity, then there must be punishment for them violating their creation role which is to only serve Allah willingly, this is when their dignity will be taken from them on the JD, Allah kept their dignity in this life and didn’t compel them to worship Him for eternity (or at least till they perish) as He did with the angels and the heaven and earth, this is not freely offered, the humans must be held accountable and for them to not to appreciate the dignity Allah gave them in this life by not compelling them to worship Him unwillingly, as well what He promised them as a reward in the after life and as well by making almost all other creatures to serve us, the outcome of our set of rules is also set that those arrogant humans who refuse to serve Allah must have no dignity when this life is over.

See how the next verses explain the human set of rules that have been FORCED on us:

18: For those who respond to their Lord is good; and (as for) those who do not respond to Him, had they all that is in the earth and the like thereof with it they would certainly offer it for a ransom. (As for) those, an evil reckoning shall be theirs and their abode is hell, and evil is the resting-place.

19: Is he then who knows that what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth like him who is blind? Only those possessed of understanding will mind

[The Quran ; 13:18:19]

لِلَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُواْ لِرَبِّهِمُ الْحُسْنَى وَالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَسْتَجِيبُواْ لَهُ لَوْ أَنَّ لَهُم مَّا فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا وَمِثْلَهُ مَعَهُ لاَفْتَدَوْاْ بِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ لَهُمْ سُوءُ الْحِسَابِ وَمَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَبِئْسَ الْمِهَادُ (1Cool
أَفَمَن يَعْلَمُ أَنَّمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَبِّكَ الْحَقُّ كَمَنْ هُوَ أَعْمَى إِنَّمَا يَتَذَكَّرُ أُوْلُواْ الأَلْبَابِ (19)

-> See, For those who respond to their Lord is good; and (as for) those who do not respond to Him, had they all that is in the earth and the like thereof with it they would certainly offer it for a ransom. (As for) those, an evil reckoning shall be theirs and their abode is hell, and evil is the resting-place. THIS MEANS THAT HUMANS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BELIEVE, however Allah wants us to do it with dignity instead of forcing us to do it unwillingly and for eternity and with no reward, which position you prefer to be in?, well it is obvious for those with brains to know which position they should go for, it is the position wher they keep their dignity in this life and what comes after it, all along for those smart humans who realized that they were only created to serve Allah, their dignity won’t be intact., see how they are described in the next verse:

-> Is he then who knows that what has been revealed to you from your Lord is the truth like him who is blind? Only those possessed of understanding will mind, that’s right, it is only those with Albab (brains) who will know for certain that we are only created to server Allah with dignity and for that reason only they should do their best to keep such dignity offered from  Allah all along and not taken from them one day. For those who respond to their Lord is good; and (as for) those who do not respond to Him, had they all that is in the earth and the like thereof with it they would certainly offer it for a ransom. (As for) those, an evil reckoning shall be theirs and their abode is hell, and evil is the resting-place.

Salam
Mutley

Dear Baghat. When are you going to join me in the debate section?
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
Dear Baghat. When are you going to join me in the debate section?



I'm actually very tired and need a long break to continue translating the Quran and do a lot of accumlated IT work,

however I may have a look at it and see if I may say something quick, that is only if you post a link here, i have no time to even look for it myself, sorry
Mutley

I'm Ed Baghat wrote:
Mutley wrote:
Dear Baghat. When are you going to join me in the debate section?



I'm actually very tired and need a long break to continue translating the Quran and do a lot of accumlated IT work,

however I may have a look at it and see if I may say something quick, that is only if you post a link here, i have no time to even look for it myself, sorry


Oh God, you must be joking. More waffles than a house of pancakes. OK bag boy, here it is.
http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/about76.html. Simple challenge. Here are the ONLY members involved in the inheritance example. Two daughters, two parents and one wife. That's it. No sons. No brothers or sisters, nor aunts or uncles, nor grandparents. No servants. No favorite call girls. Nada. Very simple. Take their shares, add them up for me, and tell me why you make each decision as per what is written in the Quran. If it's not in the Quran, it cannot be used. These terms are very favorable for you as you always insist upon Quran only.

As you say, "falsehood is bound to perish" unless of course we say that Allah has the math skills of a 3rd grader.
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:
Mutley wrote:
Dear Baghat. When are you going to join me in the debate section?



I'm actually very tired and need a long break to continue translating the Quran and do a lot of accumlated IT work,

however I may have a look at it and see if I may say something quick, that is only if you post a link here, i have no time to even look for it myself, sorry


Oh God, you must be joking. More waffles than a house of pancakes. OK bag boy, here it is.
http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/about76.html. Simple challenge. Here are the ONLY members involved in the inheritance example. Two daughters, two parents and one wife. That's it. No sons. No brothers or sisters, nor aunts or uncles, nor grandparents. No servants. No favorite call girls. Nada. Very simple. Take their shares, add them up for me, and tell me why you make each decision as per what is written in the Quran. If it's not in the Quran, it cannot be used. These terms are very favorable for you as you always insist upon Quran only


you may keep it itchy:

Mutley

Thanks for the admission that Allah has the faulty math skills of a 3rd grader.  Laughing
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
Thanks for the admission that Allah has the faulty math skills of a 3rd grader.  Laughing



I was kiddin with you punk

I have replied to your crap in there and you should know by now what you have do  for us to  continue
Mutley

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Mutley wrote:
Thanks for the admission that Allah has the faulty math skills of a 3rd grader.  Laughing



I was kiddin with you punk

I have replied to your crap in there and you should know by now what you have do  for us to  continue


And I replied, so get busy and go back to your lab and concoct some ridiculous formula and answer the problem. I gave you all of the stupid respect you ever deserve, pride man.
AhmedBahgat

Mutley wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Mutley wrote:
Thanks for the admission that Allah has the faulty math skills of a 3rd grader.  Laughing



I was kiddin with you punk

I have replied to your crap in there and you should know by now what you have do  for us to  continue


And I replied, so get busy and go back to your lab and concoct some ridiculous formula and answer the problem. I gave you all of the stupid respect you ever deserve, pride man.


Go ahead punk and list your first case

remeber no copy paste

and I wil only look at one case at a time
Mutley

I did, so quit stalling charlatan. It's all laid out in detail for you. So until you acknowledge it, SHUDDUP !!!  LOL!!!
Baal

Hey Ahmed, I think you replied to the wrong thread. I was talking about how we are supposed to obey Muhamad and accept what he forbade, then you answered with 2:256. Which is a completely different subject. It was a nice read but it is from a different subject.


Just a note on what you posted. You wrote:
Quote:
-> See what was the options for the heaven and earth:  He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly., see what the heaven and earth replied with: They both said: We come willingly., they knew that if they refuse to do their course (worshipping Allah) willingly then they will be FORCED to do it unwillingly and the course of Allah must stay unchanged, He created them for a role and they have to do such role exactly like the angels, Are the humans smart as the heaven and earth to realize that they  have no choice but to submit willingly to the One who created them?

Well, the humans have different sets of rules to the ones the angels or the heaven and earth have, the humans are higher than all those creatures, all these creatures were created but to serve the humans as well serving the creator., by them serving the humans, it has to be serving the creator because they are fulfilling their roles that they were only created for. No free rides for them. if they won’t fit their roles willingly, they WILL FIT IT UNWILLINGLY, by force, it will never happen to them though because they know 100% that Allah exists as they know that they will have no reward.

Levels of Dissonance.

That is not a choice Ahmed. If I tell some guy: "Come here or I will burn you and your kid", trust me on this one, that is not a choice. The Earth and the Sun or the moon came Willingly? Bull. Nothing is done willingly if you know the consequences are too severe (Destruction) when you do not obey.
BMZ

HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......



You just reminded me about the bloody British, who had that slogan all over the Empire. Rotflmao.
Why did they do that? out of Jesus Christ's Love rubbish theme? LOL!
OJ Smoke

HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......



The Prophet is refering to Black Dogs (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes)

We are supposed to kill those dogs all the time, in any circumstance, as these dogs are very dangerous and will kill you if they get the opportunity..........Anyone who has been to the desert knows this.
All_Brains

OJ Smoke wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......



The Prophet is refering to Black Dogs (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes)

We are supposed to kill those dogs all the time, in any circumstance, as these dogs are very dangerous and will kill you if they get the opportunity..........Anyone who has been to the desert knows this.


I am afraid that's ignorant! All these animals you named have their names in Arabic and "kalb" is not one of them.

There is also another hadith of one guy asking Muhammad about other dog colors and whether they're too demons!!
He answered, only the black dog is a demon!!!!
BMZ

Baal wrote:
But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


What exactly is the verse about, Baal?  Cool
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

My £0.02;

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


What exactly is the verse about, Baal?  Cool

I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!
All_Brains

Re: My £0.02;

[quote="Pazuzu bin Hanbi"]
BMZ wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


Quote:
I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!


Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?
Tvebak

Re: My £0.02;

All_Brains wrote:
Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


Quote:
I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!


Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?


Can I have a go at it? Nobody said anything in my brain so I assume I had a go.

We have been told of how to distribute the "booty" (a lovely thing). We could look at yusuf ali's translation:

Quote:
So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.


So tak what the apostle assigns to you 3/5 (among which is also to be distributed among others) and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you 2/5. Just a thought. It could also be about the thing of "prisoners of war". Is'nt there some rules on that.

Cheers
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

Re: My £0.02;

All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphans, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”

Commentary on this by Qur’anic scholar and exegete Muhammad Abdel Haleem also notes that “In this sura, God stresses that any victory is of His making, and any gains should be distributed in accordance with His instructions (verses 6–10)”.
Mutley

Re: My £0.02;

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphas, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”


This is amazing. There's no true feelings or love for one's fellow man going on in this. Instead, it's all about obeying commands in order to avoid severe threats of punishment. Where's the love in this? Aaaaa, never mind. I know you're a Muslim and true compassion is a concept that escapes you because you are trapped by the Quran. Maybe you've never done a pure act of love in your whole life, and instead, did it all to avoid punishment and gain paradise.
Pazuzu bin Hanbi

WTF!

Mutley wrote:
I know you're a Muslim


Tvebak

Re: My £0.02;

Mutley wrote:
Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphas, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”


This is amazing. There's no true feelings or love for one's fellow man going on in this. Instead, it's all about obeying commands in order to avoid severe threats of punishment. Where's the love in this? Aaaaa, never mind. I know you're a Muslim and true compassion is a concept that escapes you because you are trapped by the Quran. Maybe you've never done a pure act of love in your whole life, and instead, did it all to avoid punishment and gain paradise.


Hello Mutley

I agree with Pazuzu regarding that verse. I find it logical that when taken in context of the whole verse that it is talking about the "booty" mentioned.

Cheers
Baal

Let's go even One verse prior:

Quote:
59:6

{ وَمَآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ مِنْهُمْ فَمَآ أَوْجَفْتُمْ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ خَيْلٍ وَلاَ رِكَابٍ وَلَـٰكِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُسَلِّطُ رُسُلَهُ عَلَىٰ مَن يَشَآءُ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ }

059.006
YUSUFALI: What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from them - for this ye made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry: but Allah gives power to His messengers over any He pleases: and Allah has power over all things.
PICKTHAL: And that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, ye urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah giveth His messenger lordship over whom He will. Allah is Able to do all things.
SHAKIR: And whatever Allah restored to His Messenger from them you did not press forward against it any horse or a riding camel but Allah gives authority to His messengers against whom He pleases, and Allah has power over all things.

It makes Pazuzu's explanation even more accurate. Why BMZ, what did you think this verse means? Why did you bring forward this verse about 7th century bedouins dividing the loot among themselves?
Baal

All_Brains wrote:
OJ Smoke wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......



The Prophet is refering to Black Dogs (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes)

We are supposed to kill those dogs all the time, in any circumstance, as these dogs are very dangerous and will kill you if they get the opportunity..........Anyone who has been to the desert knows this.


I am afraid that's ignorant! All these animals you named have their names in Arabic and "kalb" is not one of them.

There is also another hadith of one guy asking Muhammad about other dog colors and whether they're too demons!!
He answered, only the black dog is a demon!!!!

And (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes) are rarely black. In fact I have never seen one that's black.

Dogs and cats with their sharp senses, had been known throughout history as protectors, often protecting the house from vermins and bad spirits. Yet Gabriel, a spirit himself, is affraid of dogs? Why would a good spirit be affraid of dogs?
BMZ

Baal wrote:
Why BMZ, what did you think this verse means? Why did you bring forward this verse about 7th century bedouins dividing the loot among themselves?


Baal, you are the one who posted the verse, not me. This should serve your short-lived memory well, because you wrote this to Ahmed.
Quote:
Your wishful thinking to only apply the koran at the exclusion of all other islamic scripture and knowledge is to be commended. Koran is short on laws and regulations that it can not handle 99.9% of the situations in the real world.

If you only want to apply the koran at the exclusion to all the other crap, then islam will be almost non-existent in the life of an islamic society and that is a GREAT thing. I wish you luck Ahmed, I really do.

But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


The problem is you talk too much but understand very little and also remember little. In the above quote of yours, I have emboldened one of your silly and idiotic comments.

The "gift", that you passed, was in reference to people who use that verse for justifying hadith and that was your intention. You were not asking for an explanation.

That is why I asked you that question. Rotflmao. Also, keep in mind that the 7th Century was far more modern than the 1st Century and all the Centuries before that.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  You may not be able to undersatnd what I just said but give it a try.  Laughing

BMZ
Tvebak

Hi BMZ

I agree with you that the specific verse does not excuse the use of the hadith. But do you feel that the quran is sufficient for your belief?
Do you feel that the quran explain sufficiently on how to deal with the different things that the Quran demands you to do?

Cheers
Baal

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Why BMZ, what did you think this verse means? Why did you bring forward this verse about 7th century bedouins dividing the loot among themselves?


Baal, you are the one who posted the verse, not me. This should serve your short-lived memory well, because you wrote this to Ahmed.
Quote:
Your wishful thinking to only apply the koran at the exclusion of all other islamic scripture and knowledge is to be commended. Koran is short on laws and regulations that it can not handle 99.9% of the situations in the real world.

If you only want to apply the koran at the exclusion to all the other crap, then islam will be almost non-existent in the life of an islamic society and that is a GREAT thing. I wish you luck Ahmed, I really do.

But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


The problem is you talk too much but understand very little and also remember little. In the above quote of yours, I have emboldened one of your silly and idiotic comments.

The "gift", that you passed, was in reference to people who use that verse for justifying hadith and that was your intention. You were not asking for an explanation.

That is why I asked you that question. Rotflmao. Also, keep in mind that the 7th Century was far more modern than the 1st Century and all the Centuries before that.  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  You may not be able to undersatnd what I just said but give it a try.  Laughing

BMZ

Your attack on my memory is duly noted.
Your attempt to run away is also noted.

If you bring every verse that I posted everywhere then you might end up writing half the koran in here.

So now, plz explain to us why you brought this verse forward and what you think of it.

Particularly, Plz explain to me, how can we know what he allowed and what he forbade without any hadith. Keep in mind that to the average muslim, in the koran it is not Mohammad who allows and forbids, it is allah. So how can we know what Muhammad allowed and forbade?

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