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AhmedBahgat

The Criminals of Islam

Raza

Do the majority of Islamic scholars reject Hadiths?
And are you an Islamic Scholar?
AhmedBahgat

Raza wrote:
Do the majority of Islamic scholars reject Hadiths?
And are you an Islamic Scholar?


scholar my arse

you are dismissed as a mushrik

cheers
Raza

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Raza wrote:
Do the majority of Islamic scholars reject Hadiths?
And are you an Islamic Scholar?


scholar my arse

you are dismissed as a mushrik

cheers

I believe in Hadiths so therefore, I am a mushrik?
If so, then majority of the Islamic Scholars, if not all, are mushrik too?
You are not to contemplate your own opinion of Islam and express it as you don't clearly know Islam; you must be a Islamic Scholar.
AhmedBahgat

Raza wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Raza wrote:
Do the majority of Islamic scholars reject Hadiths?
And are you an Islamic Scholar?


scholar my arse

you are dismissed as a mushrik

cheers

I believe in Hadiths so therefore, I am a mushrik?
If so, then majority of the Islamic Scholars, if not all, are mushrik too?
You are not to contemplate your own opinion of Islam and express it as you don't clearly know Islam; you must be a Islamic Scholar.


Again, stop acting stupid

Islam is not for your scholars, your scholars are nothing but a bunch of gangs who forbids and allow what Allah has not sanctioned

on the other hand mister smart, you will never be able to blame them if they are wrong, and most certainly they are wrong, look at the fruit of Islam as we see it after 1000 years of corruption, very fruitful hey

oh yeh, here is one of your scholars,

see if you look like a scholar, and talk like a scholar, then he must be a scholar, however this scholar that you are about to see, was fuking males in the MOSQUE where he was its Imam

A scholar of Islam

see why I told ya, scholar my arse

now I stand by it

please piss off if you can't refute my main article instead of asking me, am I a scholar

here is my bloody answer again:

scholar my arse
Tvebak

Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.

You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?


Hi Ahmed

Yes I would like to see it, then I would have another argument against those "followers of hadith", that would be fine. And no I haven't read the hadith. Not plannig to do in the near future.

Cheers
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?


Hi Ahmed

Yes I would like to see it, then I would have another argument against those "followers of hadith", that would be fine. And no I haven't read the hadith. Not plannig to do in the near future.

Cheers



Hello


So you have not read them and just pick and choose what suit your mind as a kafir?

well let me tell you, what they call hadith science has nothing to do with science, however it has everything to do with conjectures, hearsay, allegations, gosips, fabrications, etc etc

sure some of it may be true, we just can never know, even the ones that comply 100% with the quran, we will never know for certain if the allegation is true or not, so please do swollow that crap called hadith science, every time i hear Muslim boasting about it, it either makes me laugh or puke


now for the ahdiths from Musannad Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, you need to look at my article on thiis web site called "Tas-hih Al Bukhari" and you should see the hadith there taken from the offical hadith site of the Saudi government

cheers
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?


Hi Ahmed

Yes I would like to see it, then I would have another argument against those "followers of hadith", that would be fine. And no I haven't read the hadith. Not plannig to do in the near future.

Cheers



Hello


So you have not read them and just pick and choose what suit your mind as a kafir?

well let me tell you, what they call hadith science has nothing to do with science, however it has everything to do with conjectures, hearsay, allegations, gosips, fabrications, etc etc

sure some of it may be true, we just can never know, even the ones that comply 100% with the quran, we will never know for certain if the allegation is true or not, so please do swollow that crap called hadith science, every time i hear Muslim boasting about it, it either makes me laugh or puke


now for the ahdiths from Musannad Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, you need to look at my article on thiis web site called "Tas-hih Al Bukhari" and you should see the hadith there taken from the offical hadith site of the Saudi government

cheers


Hi Ahmed

No I only stick to the quran. Maybe I will get around to read them at some time for historical reasons. As for debating those believing in the hadith  I've only picked a few up as examples, some who does not contradict the quran, but contradict other circumstances. I haven't pick and choose what suit my mind. I haven't collected the damn hadith  Very Happy

Quote:
well let me tell you, what they call hadith science has nothing to do with science, however it has everything to do with conjectures, hearsay, allegations, gosips, fabrications, etc etc


I cannot disagree with this  Wink

I will have a look at your thread, thank you.

Cheers
AhmedBahgat

there was a NOT missing in my comment

i meant do NOT sowllow that crap called hadith science
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
there was a NOT missing in my comment

i meant do NOT sowllow that crap called hadith science


I figured that out. It seemed clear that you had missed typing that in.
AhmedBahgat

good that you figured it out, I always miss plenty of NOTs not sure that swollow is the right spelling, I donlt care as long as you can understand what I mean, I really have no time to spell check everything I type
Baal

In Islam, Being a mushrik is an implicit crime that opens the door to many Hudud (punishments) to be applied.

If you goto to Egypt and claim you are a 'koranist' they will throw you in jail. Which makes them not different then you, if you had power over them, you considering them mushriks, will also expose them to being thrown in jail. Great going muslim.
Wiking

Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?
AhmedBahgat

Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers
ibnishaq

you have read ALL the hadiths? wow!!!!!

have you studied the science of the hadiths? if so i find it a bit weird how you can deny some of the authenticity when some(about 40) have great isnads that go back to muhammad.
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets


Hello

But the government is not waging a war on you are they? killing people to get your taxmoney?

It's the idea of booty and war. You cannot seriously compare this to taxes.

Cheers
Wiking

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


So, you think that sura 9, the Muslim declaration of war upon mankind, must stand as it is? You find nothing cruel or otherwise wrong in it?
AhmedBahgat

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets


Hello

But the government is not waging a war on you are they? killing people to get your taxmoney?

It's the idea of booty and war. You cannot seriously compare this to taxes.

Cheers


Hello

That should refute youself then, because it is more cruel to bloody take 46% of my money every fukin month, while the verse you are talking about is only talking about what we put our hands on from the enemy possesions after defeating them

i.e.

1) an army of Muslims is fighting an army of kafirs
2) the army of kafirs were defeated and left 5 camels behind

now what we should do with those 5 camels is simply as follow:

1) one camel goes to the Islamic state
2) 4 camels are distributed on all the believers

this camel kept for the state will be spent back on the state, letls say for argument sake, for the next bloody war

you have no point pal

salam
AhmedBahgat

Wiking wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


So, you think that sura 9, the Muslim declaration of war upon mankind, must stand as it is? You find nothing cruel or otherwise wrong in it?




I explained the verses in sura 9 thoroughly, there was no declaration of war but on those kafirs who don't want to comply with the new rules governing the house of Allah after being repossesed by the believers and achieving full authority over it

in fact the sura starts by a declaration of IMMUNITY to those kafirs who will comply, as well we should protect those kafirs and make them feel secure

are you that silly not to see the message after I have explained it in details and showing the verses one after the other?

please don't be arrogant seeing another lie about the Quran biting the dust

now if you want to argue that some confused Muslims may understand it wrong, then that is a totally different issues that I don't want to get into it because i agree that the human nature is flawed by nature

Salam
Tvebak

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets


Hello

But the government is not waging a war on you are they? killing people to get your taxmoney?

It's the idea of booty and war. You cannot seriously compare this to taxes.

Cheers


Hello

That should refute youself then, because it is more cruel to bloody take 46% of my money every fukin month, while the verse you are talking about is only talking about what we put our hands on from the enemy possesions after defeating them

i.e.

1) an army of Muslims is fighting an army of kafirs
2) the army of kafirs were defeated and left 5 camels behind

now what we should do with those 5 camels is simply as follow:

1) one camel goes to the Islamic state [I would say that its two camels, it 1/5 fifth each "god" and the messenger is having]2) 4 camels are distributed on all the believers


this camel kept for the state will be spent back on the state, letls say for argument sake, for the next bloody war

you have no point pal

salam


Really Ahmed you are expressing my point just fine.

Cheers.

EDIT: just highlighted how Ahmed expressed my point just fine!
AhmedBahgat

No worries glad to be of a help

next
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets

Your comparison of war booty to state tax is dismissed Ahmed. IF the koran meant the state tax, then the koran would have found dozens better ways to ask for its share, then to dip in war booty.
Baal

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?

Too many points you are raising ahmad, first it is not up to him to tell us to write about him or not. Second, the hadith of him telling us not to write about him is false, as far as you are concerned. Third, What we have written about him, *Is the Islamic Story*. Remove the islamic story, and there will be no islam. The koran is not enough.

The koran contradicts the books it claims to be based on. Whether those prior books had been modified or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that today, the books are so different that you can not take ANYTHING From them reliably into the story of islam. So the koran is NOT ENOUGH to build the *Story of Islam*. The previous books to islam are unusable. Where else do you expect people to get their story of islam?

Now I can not help it if, the people around Mohammad, the people worshipping him like a god, in fact often more so then a god, could not write better material about him. They tried to write the best material about him, they hid the bad stuff as much as they can and still, this is what we are left with. The image of a 7th century thug with NO redeeming values for today. None.

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