Archive for FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT BREAK THE CHAINS OF IGNORANCE AND FEAR
 


       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Islam
ibnishaq

the splitting of the moon

mentioned not only in the hadiths(that were written like 200 years later) but were always a tradition in islam. take for example abu hanifah, he mentioned it. also, qataba ibn al numan was a sahabah who KNEW muhammad and we have a writing where he mentioned numerous miracles (water supplication and splitting of the moon, invoking rain etc)

also, alqama ibn qais was a man who was born just 68 years after hijra and who also mentioned the splitting of the moon. so did imam shafi'i malik, abu yusuf, and over 300 early islamic scholars BEFORE the time the hadiths were written.

so it is not just recorded in a hadith written 200 years later. it is written all over islamic history!

so how was this successfully made up that 24 narrators of the hadith mention it, and hundreds of early muslims mention it!

i just find it hard to be made up.
All_Brains

Re: the splitting of the moon

ibnishaq wrote:
mentioned not only in the hadiths(that were written like 200 years later) but were always a tradition in islam. take for example abu hanifah, he mentioned it. also, qataba ibn al numan was a sahabah who KNEW muhammad and we have a writing where he mentioned numerous miracles (water supplication and splitting of the moon, invoking rain etc)

also, alqama ibn qais was a man who was born just 68 years after hijra and who also mentioned the splitting of the moon. so did imam shafi'i malik, abu yusuf, and over 300 early islamic scholars BEFORE the time the hadiths were written.

so it is not just recorded in a hadith written 200 years later. it is written all over islamic history!

so how was this successfully made up that 24 narrators of the hadith mention it, and hundreds of early muslims mention it!

i just find it hard to be made up.


You still hang up on miracles Shaq!!!

The answer to the above is a piece of cake! The lie was started by Muhammad himself, just like his ascension, that's why its records were early enough for you to believe!

I am so sorry that you failed to notice the simple fact that although the splitting of the moon would have been a global observation for everyone (night time) to behold, there is no record whatsoever of such event in any non-Islamic sources.

I would have thought that a colossal event such as this would have been beheld and recorded by the many astrologists that the neighbouring countries were infested with????

Unbiased sources is a key here!
HomoErectus

Dear Ishaq

Where is the crack ?
All_Brains

HomoErectus wrote:
Dear Ishaq

Where is the crack ?


Shit man, that actually rhymed! You're so poetic! Laughing
HomoErectus

Sheet, this could turn out to become a thread about poetry and dope !! Very Happy

.
ibnishaq

all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!

i agree that if it was from the whole world ppl would have seen it and reported it!

also, the hadiths about muhammad making water is mutawatir hadith as well.
All_Brains

ibnishaq wrote:
all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!


Sure! You could then argue the whole thing was made up since it could not be verified through "unbiased" sources.

Also, I find it very strange that Allah claims that Islam is for all humanity, yet chooses to show his signs to "biased" few??
XXX

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!


Sure! You could then argue the whole thing was made up since it could not be verified through "unbiased" sources.

Also, I find it very strange that Allah claims that Islam is for all humanity, yet chooses to show his signs to "biased" few??


There are 100s of miracles that have been attributed to the Prophet PBUH in hadiths which have bveen dismissed by our scholars as forgeries, just why do you think they wouldn't want to Include them?

Are you saying this isn't Unbiased?
David

XXX wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!


Sure! You could then argue the whole thing was made up since it could not be verified through "unbiased" sources.

Also, I find it very strange that Allah claims that Islam is for all humanity, yet chooses to show his signs to "biased" few??


There are 100s of miracles that have been attributed to the Prophet PBUH in hadiths which have bveen dismissed by our scholars as forgeries, just why do you think they wouldn't want to Include them?

Are you saying this isn't Unbiased?


Maybe they have been dismissed because they contradict the Quran and that is not allowed?
BMZ

Re: the splitting of the moon

ibnishaq wrote:
mentioned not only in the hadiths(that were written like 200 years later) but were always a tradition in islam. take for example abu hanifah, he mentioned it. also, qataba ibn al numan was a sahabah who KNEW muhammad and we have a writing where he mentioned numerous miracles (water supplication and splitting of the moon, invoking rain etc)

also, alqama ibn qais was a man who was born just 68 years after hijra and who also mentioned the splitting of the moon. so did imam shafi'i malik, abu yusuf, and over 300 early islamic scholars BEFORE the time the hadiths were written.

so it is not just recorded in a hadith written 200 years later. it is written all over islamic history!

so how was this successfully made up that 24 narrators of the hadith mention it, and hundreds of early muslims mention it!

i just find it hard to be made up.


I am a Muslim, ibniishaq and many Muslims like me do not agree with that Hadith. If you read that verse in Qur'aan, it is very clear that it is talking about that happening towards the end times or in  a long distant future.

Hadith literature is full of many ahaadith and one should look to Qur'aan and check if a particular Hadith appears correct or not. You don't look at a Hadith to verify Qur'aan.

Hadith literature, as I have said many times before eveywhere, is like the Christian Bible. The Christians' OldT and the NewT are full of gossips, narrations and unbelieveable miracles. It is upto us and the intelligent Christians to use brain to decide what is correct and what is clearly incorrect.

If a multitude of gullibles can believe that the father called from Heavens and only John heard and the rest of the world did not, I would not consider that a miracle. When Karakatua, east of Java erupted that was the loudest bang ever recorded in the world. People in India heard the bang.

Paul came up with an unbelieveable miraculous story of Jesus talking to him so loud from heavens and no one else heard, yet people believed in that miracle.

Add insult to injury,  Wink the guy who cured him, had scales falling down his eyes. Can we believe this was a miracle? Jesus feeding a multitude with two fish and loaf? Can we believe that miracle? God could have easily told Moses to do the same. Right? It was like a Kentucky Chicken mass delivery for the Hebrews. Sai Baba of India does the same miracles like Jesus, reportedly.  Laughing  

Those are the stories of simple people who believe in them and those who made them up. Of course if the moon had been split up into two, it would have been witnessed all over the planet.

There are two alleged earthquakes after crucifiction but in the official records of earthquakes in the history of Israel, there was not a single earthquake in 1-3 A.D. Just google about the earthquakes in the history of earthquakes in Israel.

Muhammad, on the other hand was clearly told in Qur'aan, if people wanted him to bring a sign or to show a miracle, that if he had the strength or power himself, then he should climb up into Heavens or go down deep into the Earth, himself to do so. This clearly refutes those ahadith.

That is why, I had requested that you put more efforts into reading and understanding Qur'aan.

BMZ
ibnishaq

bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.
BMZ

ibnishaq wrote:
bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.


There is no Science in either Hadith or Qur'aan, ibnishaq.  Let me drill in this way:

Prophet recited Qur'aan and taught what it meant. Explained it. When prophet passed away, he did not leave any Hadith Book behind himself. Worse had happened when poor Jesus passed away without leaving anything like Qur'aan.

Dozens of people chimed in and wrote the Christian scripture, which you can call Christian Ahaadith.

Whether saheeh or da'eef or mutawatir, etc., Bukhari, Muslim, etc., are NOT the Holy Scripture. You can read and chuck them away. You can discard a hadith if it looks silly and incorrect. God is not going to punish you or me or Ahmed for doing that. There was no need to collect ahahdith and it should have remained oral tradition. What good Bukhari and others have done?

But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

What Science do you see in studying Ahaadith?

BMZ




But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.
Baal

BMZ wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.


There is no Science in either Hadith or Qur'aan, ibnishaq.  Let me drill in this way:

Prophet recited Qur'aan and taught what it meant. Explained it. When prophet passed away, he did not leave any Hadith Book behind himself. Worse had happened when poor Jesus passed away without leaving anything like Qur'aan.

Dozens of people chimed in and wrote the Christian scripture, which you can call Christian Ahaadith.

Whether saheeh or da'eef or mutawatir, etc., Bukhari, Muslim, etc., are NOT the Holy Scripture. You can read and chuck them away. You can discard a hadith if it looks silly and incorrect. God is not going to punish you or me or Ahmed for doing that. There was no need to collect ahahdith and it should have remained oral tradition. What good Bukhari and others have done?

But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

What Science do you see in studying Ahaadith?

BMZ




But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

The Second you start to determine which hadith is correct or not, which criterias are more valid then others. This is Science of Hadith BMZ. Even Kuffars who do not give a rat's ass about either, practice it.

Because that is what Kuffar do, they practice Science, they will study hadith, they will study serial killers like bundy and gacy, they will study maggots that eat dead flesh. It is all Science. I can not say studying maggots is not Science because I find them icky! or I will not study serial killers because i find them despicable.

As for muslims practicing the Science of the Hadith, you are only trying to deprive them of one of their very few streams of Sciences.
ronyvo

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!


Sure! You could then argue the whole thing was made up since it could not be verified through "unbiased" sources.

Also, I find it very strange that Allah claims that Islam is for all humanity, yet chooses to show his signs to "biased" few??

I read some of the posts in this thread. I don't care either for the hadiths, becasue they are FULL of nonesense and PROVEN flaws. Besides, many Muslims do not believe in hadiths.
That is why I, myself, do not occupy myself much with hadiths.

But, what about the Koran, which all Muslims believe in?

The contradictions are so numerous and humilating to the open minded Muslim.

However, I wouldn't have bothered discussing Islam, the Koran, if Mohammad had NOT instructed his followers to KILL any of those who do not join, he called them infidels.
This is barbaric which fits the stone age (maybe), but now in the 21st century???

Islam exposed Islam, What I mean that before 9/11 the West did not know anything about Islam. It was contained in the ME, where the HORRIBLE islamic atrocities were in continuance action for over 1400 years until this day.
The West, actually the world starts to know about the extreme violence in Islam.
Even, a huge number of Muslims have the chance now to discuss and argue aboout their faith, a right they are denied.

The internet is a huge powerful tool to get people of all kind of back ground to really know the truth about Islam.
One does not have to go far. It is easy to refute Islam from the Koran. The Islamists are dealing now with the free world. They cannot shutt up the opposition,  as it was and is happening in the ME.

       FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Islam
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum
Home|Home|Home|Home|HomeHome|Home|Home|Home|Home