FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  Who is OnlineWho is Online   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
  • Welcome
  • Guest

  • Main Menu
  • Sticky Articles
  • Open Support Tickets
God's chosen people. Is God racist?
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Judaism
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Please Register and Login to this forum to stop seeing this advertising.






Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
Posted:     Post subject:

Back to top
David
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:17 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
I think it's obvious that God was a little bit racist in the beginning. But I have no problems with that. There could be good reasons for that that I would never imagine. But, people were not being chosen based on their individual qualities, they were being chosen by group. So, in other words, in a non racist choice, God would have figured out a personal attribute that he was looking for, and selected individuals from all over to come together. But instead, he selected one contiguous mutually similar lump of people from one spot.


Well, the Jews sure had their faults as a people and some of them had their good points as individuals.  None of them were perfect.   Perhaps God's Messiah was the "perfect individual Jew" who would bring all peoples together, doing for the Jews what they as a group could not do for themselves.  The Messiah is the Messiah of the Jews and the Gentiles, you know.

Someone who is a racist means they think their race is superior to all others.  I have a hard time thinking of God as racist.

Why would God create different races in the first place?  Why didn't he just create one race?  Ah, but he did, didn't he?  He created the human race. Very Happy

Interesting conversation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mutley
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 249


Location: US
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I think it's obvious that God was a little bit racist in the beginning. But I have no problems with that. There could be good reasons for that that I would never imagine. But, people were not being chosen based on their individual qualities, they were being chosen by group. So, in other words, in a non racist choice, God would have figured out a personal attribute that he was looking for, and selected individuals from all over to come together. But instead, he selected one contiguous mutually similar lump of people from one spot.


Well, the Jews sure had their faults as a people and some of them had their good points as individuals.  None of them were perfect.   Perhaps God's Messiah was the "perfect individual Jew" who would bring all peoples together, doing for the Jews what they as a group could not do for themselves.  The Messiah is the Messiah of the Jews and the Gentiles, you know.

Someone who is a racist means they think their race is superior to all others.  I have a hard time thinking of God as racist.

Why would God create different races in the first place?  Why didn't he just create one race?  Ah, but he did, didn't he?  He created the human race. Very Happy

Interesting conversation.


One may never be able to understand the rhyme or reason as it's probably even beyond the conceptualizing mind. However, I do not deny what I see in the scriptures right in front of me. I guess, to be clear, I should say that the actions clearly suggest racism, however the intentions might be something beyond this concept called "racism" that we invented. Perhaps we couldn't know.

The Bible does one very clever thing. It never truly spells out why God create humans. Perhaps that was very wise, as opposed to the Quran specifically and clearly stating that life is a test for us, and that is it's purpose. Oh boy, big logical hole there that I could go into, but I already did in the debate section under Mutley vs Intellectual Fighter
_________________
If it is peace you want, seek to change yourself, not other people. It is easier to protect your feet with slippers than to carpet the whole of the earth. --Anthony DeMello
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:


One may never be able to understand the rhyme or reason as it's probably even beyond the conceptualizing mind. However, I do not deny what I see in the scriptures right in front of me. I guess, to be clear, I should say that the actions clearly suggest racism, however the intentions might be something beyond this concept called "racism" that we invented. Perhaps we couldn't know.

The Bible does one very clever thing. It never truly spells out why God create humans. Perhaps that was very wise, as opposed to the Quran specifically and clearly stating that life is a test for us, and that is it's purpose. Oh boy, big logical hole there that I could go into, but I already did in the debate section under Mutley vs Intellectual Fighter


God did say "His ways are not our ways."  I think the Jews just might have gotten a little "puffed up" about being the "chosen" people.  God did give them the law, too.  I wonder if that would turn some Jews into "racists?"  However, some Jews seem to be a bit more tolerant  now days.

I see some Muslims being "puffed up" about being the last religion, the true religion, the religion that supercedes all others.

Mankind was created in God's image to reflect His image on earth. Everything we do should be to the glory of God.   He gave mankind dominion over earth and all that is in it.  Of course, mankind has made a big mess of it.

How disappointing mankind has had to be to the Creator.  No wonder He tried to wipe us all off the earth and start over with Noah, but it didn't help.

If mankind had gotten it right from the beginning then God would have reason to be all "puffed up."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mutley
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 249


Location: US
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Mutley wrote:


One may never be able to understand the rhyme or reason as it's probably even beyond the conceptualizing mind. However, I do not deny what I see in the scriptures right in front of me. I guess, to be clear, I should say that the actions clearly suggest racism, however the intentions might be something beyond this concept called "racism" that we invented. Perhaps we couldn't know.

The Bible does one very clever thing. It never truly spells out why God create humans. Perhaps that was very wise, as opposed to the Quran specifically and clearly stating that life is a test for us, and that is it's purpose. Oh boy, big logical hole there that I could go into, but I already did in the debate section under Mutley vs Intellectual Fighter


God did say "His ways are not our ways."  I think the Jews just might have gotten a little "puffed up" about being the "chosen" people.


It's not them, it's the scriptures. The scriptures themselves say this.

David wrote:

God did give them the law, too.  I wonder if that would turn some Jews into "racists?"  However, some Jews seem to be a bit more tolerant  now days.


This issue was not about Jews. The issue was about whether God would favor one "people" over another. Consider it an algebra formula where you have a 2a and 2b and insert other religions as well. Still the same question.

David wrote:

I see some Muslims being "puffed up" about being the last religion, the true religion, the religion that supercedes all others.


True. But that's a different point discussed in many threads here. You can even start many of your own.

David wrote:

Mankind was created in God's image to reflect His image on earth.


Whoa whoa whoa....where did you get that idea from?

David wrote:

Everything we do should be to the glory of God.


Could be, but I'm not sure, because that statement doesn't really have a specific, tangible meaning.

David wrote:

He gave mankind dominion over earth and all that is in it.  Of course, mankind has made a big mess of it.


That's a different discussion.

David wrote:

How disappointing mankind has had to be to the Creator.


And that would be your opinion of the unknown. Could you imagine a pollster that goes around asking people what their opinion is of things the respondents do not know about nor pretend to know about?

David wrote:

No wonder He tried to wipe us all off the earth and start over with Noah, but it didn't help.

If mankind had gotten it right from the beginning then God would have reason to be all "puffed up."


This is not going to mean what you will think it does the first time you read it. If mankind ceased to exist, life would continue on in all of it's beauty and violence without a single problem. Where would be the problem? No problem at all. We are the problem. Our judgment is the problem.
_________________
If it is peace you want, seek to change yourself, not other people. It is easier to protect your feet with slippers than to carpet the whole of the earth. --Anthony DeMello
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Servatus
New Member
New Member


Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 6



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
God loves everybody and isn't racist, but he chose one group of people and made them special above all others. Remember, we're not talking about individuals, we are talking about a lumped together group of people being raised above others, not individual people being raised above other individual people from all different groups of people based on their individual qualities and attributes. One is raised above others simply because they belong to that group, and not necessarily because of the individual's personal attributes themselves. So what else should we call this but racism?


Actually, God chose to reward a man, Abraham for faith and service. Israel shares in the blessing based on inheritance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:

David wrote:

Mankind was created in God's image to reflect His image on earth.


Whoa whoa whoa....where did you get that idea from?


From the book of Genesis.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Judaism All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4
 
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum