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Woman as evil doers
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katlike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Those Abrahamic religions really take the cake for me, they are awful as far as the treatment of woman, but are so bold as to say this is "ordained by God".  I was probably just lashing out at you cause you were male... you know how emotional and unreasonable I as a mere female can get!   Wink
I would love to have blamed it all on islam, but I have been to many different religious forums and the number of people, male and female, who feel a woman outside of the home is simply begging for the trouble she gets is very scary.  This is a predominant in the Abrahmic religions.  So they are the extemists,  that hardly matters when you can use your doctrine to think that way, extreme or not, I have a problem with it.  The earth based religions are so much more pro female, we call her mother earth, but the others think god has to be a male, with all the troubles and wants of a male.    I  think of god as a perfect balance, no sex but  male and female...
I do appreciate your thoughts and I would love to hear more of what you had to say with a healthy dose of your wife's thoughts....lol

Peace, love and health
Katlike
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All_Brains
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katlike wrote:
Those Abrahamic religions really take the cake for me, they are awful as far as the treatment of woman, but are so bold as to say this is "ordained by God".  I was probably just lashing out at you cause you were male... you know how emotional and unreasonable I as a mere female can get!   Wink
I would love to have blamed it all on islam, but I have been to many different religious forums and the number of people, male and female, who feel a woman outside of the home is simply begging for the trouble she gets is very scary.  This is a predominant in the Abrahmic religions.  So they are the extemists,  that hardly matters when you can use your doctrine to think that way, extreme or not, I have a problem with it.  The earth based religions are so much more pro female, we call her mother earth, but the others think god has to be a male, with all the troubles and wants of a male.    I  think of god as a perfect balance, no sex but  male and female...
I do appreciate your thoughts and I would love to hear more of what you had to say with a healthy dose of your wife's thoughts....lol

Peace, love and health
Katlike


Hi Katlike

It will take a while for the balance to occur. Women have been imprisoned for centuries and only in the past 50 years or so started to breathe the breeze of freedom.

It will sometimes for the rebellious after effect and being a little vindictive before logic and balance is restored.

There are similar aspects with slavery based on color and "the gang and kool" culture to counter centuries of oppression.
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katlike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But All_Brains,
How did we ever lose it?  Was it due to violence?  More importantly, what do we do with the societies that seem content with the inequities?  Do we fight for equlity or simply wait for them to catch up?
 
I am frustrated.

Katlike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katlike wrote:
But All_Brains,
How did we ever lose it?  Was it due to violence?  More importantly, what do we do with the societies that seem content with the inequities?  Do we fight for equlity or simply wait for them to catch up?
 
I am frustrated.

Katlike


There are more questions being asked than ever nowadays. Taboos and doctrine that no one imagined to be challenged are happening as we speak! The age of reason is upon us and the glimpses of hope are everywhere!

Women everywhere need to continue what's they are doing right now, prove that they are just as good at everything that men have previously declared as exclusive to men.

Men everywhere need to acknowledge the "Jehova Complex" created by Sadistic men and reinforced by their creation of the "Brothers Karamazov" aka "Abrahamic Religions".

We all, men and women, need to work on fixing that (Fuck-up)!

On behalf of men, I personally apologise to you Katlike and promise you that tomorrow will be better! Very Happy
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brainout
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the point the Bible makes about using the rib is to demonstrate that a) the woman is equal, and b) that she's designed to fit the man so that there is no lording-over.

When my pastor teaches about this he stresses both of those points, has for decades.  He posited that the misogyny results due to man being so insecure, he lords it over the woman.  My pastor gets heated when he discusses this.  Bible and people allegedly following it are two different things.  

You should hear him talk about 1Tim2:15, lol!  "NIV 1 Timothy 2:15 But women will be saved through childbearing-- if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."  Verse in translation (which is nearly the same in all Bibles of any language) is so REVERSE of the Greek, it's not funny.

You can well argue it's a psychological defense mechanism which points back to Adam's Fall as the trigger:  "Oh, you woman I gave into you once and ate that fruit, I'll NEVER do it again!"  Lol.


So I frankly only find the man-centric problem in the people who allegedly live by the 'Abrahamic' holy books, not in the books themselves. -- though I must admit the Qu'ran is peculiarly anti-female, almost fixated.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brainout wrote:
Well, the point the Bible makes about using the rib is to demonstrate that a) the woman is equal, and b) that she's designed to fit the man so that there is no lording-over.


What about the mythical Lilith who was Adams first wife. Created from the same dust as Adam but refused to submit and evidently flew off to become a child manipulating demon...  tongue  ... all because she would not submit.

Katlike,
I believe it is all about control. As the Celtic woman said to the Roman wife, "We lay with the best of our men while you serve the worst of yours."
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow KrisP:

Quote:
I believe it is all about control. As the Celtic woman said to the Roman wife, "We lay with the best of our men while you serve the worst of yours."


I love that saying, I had not heard it before, but it is what I feel.  Thank you for sharing it.  I would like to know more about it, do you have any other information about it?  I might just use it as my sig in a couple of forums.  It is just what I want to say!  How perfect.

All_Brains, your apology is very sweet and is not unappreciated, but it was never your ill to apologize for.  I would be forgiving if it was something we were talking about that happened 2000 years ago, or 500 years ago, or heck even a 100 years ago, but it is still a concept that is wildly accepted, and I just don't understand it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katlike wrote:
Wow KrisP:

Quote:
I believe it is all about control. As the Celtic woman said to the Roman wife, "We lay with the best of our men while you serve the worst of yours."


I love that saying, I had not heard it before, but it is what I feel.  Thank you for sharing it.  I would like to know more about it, do you have any other information about it?  I might just use it as my sig in a couple of forums.  It is just what I want to say!  How perfect.


I believe it came from Nora Chadwick's interpretation of either the Greek geographer Strabo or the historian Diodorus Siculus documents. If you give me some time I will be able to locate it again.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KrisP wrote:
brainout wrote:
Well, the point the Bible makes about using the rib is to demonstrate that a) the woman is equal, and b) that she's designed to fit the man so that there is no lording-over.


What about the mythical Lilith who was Adams first wife. Created from the same dust as Adam but refused to submit and evidently flew off to become a child manipulating demon...  tongue  ... all because she would not submit.

Katlike,
I believe it is all about control. As the Celtic woman said to the Roman wife, "We lay with the best of our men while you serve the worst of yours."


Lilith is someone's imagination, not in Bible.  Sorry it took so long for me to notice you posted to me, I had my notification turned off for awhile.

I think people confuse a hierarchy of authority with a superiority of being.  In a marriage, someone must be in charge.  That doesn't mean one person is of superior being over another.  In a corporation, someone must be in charge.  That too doesn't mean a superiority of being.  One person has superior talents in field "x", so gets more due to that, but the underlying person is not necessarily any better.

I always find it amusing that while people laud me as some kind of genius, I can't make my office copier work.  I can't cook.  I have talents I did not earn or deserve, and lack talents others have.  Is it fair that some talents result in a person having more authority?  Some would say yes.  But it's always nice and humbling that the greatest talents among us cannot live without those who have the least-valued talents.

Paul makes quite a joke about this, in 1 Corinthians 12.  The language is graphic, so you won't find the sexual innuendoes translated well ("unpresentable parts" is how they usually put it).  So too, in Isaiah 54:1, where the sterile/ shamed one is made the bearer of more children (Christ on the Cross, but also allusion to Leah and Rachel in the OT, their rivalry).  

In short, the "low" are vital.  Can't be an effective President, if you've not had your dinner!  LOL pee is extremely important, one can't live without it!  If God is, and if God is infinite, then He would WANT the "low" to be important.

So are women unequal?  Not really, no matter whether you believe in God, or not.  We humans just use any differential among us to claim self better or worse, that's all.  Human insecurity, is like that.
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Sanitarium
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking along the same lines as all of you (unless I read you all wrong). Man was created in the image of God, but woman a cheap copy - in the image of the created (man). Man gets favour by serving his God (whomever that is in abrahamic religions). Women can only get favour by serving the man. The whole rib incident shows that women are an 'afterthought' - God didn't want to waste any of the good materials on creating a woman, so he just took some of that which was already used and mocked up  a female.

Therefore women can only gain favour with these different "Gods" by being completely subservient to the male - as if she has no 'direct line' to God, but only messages relayed through the man.

The fact that it was Eve who 'ate the fruit' and then conned Adam into doing the same shows how ungrateful women are for 'all that men do for them.' . After all, Adam had his rib sacrificed for her very creation, and she repaid this generosity by making God angry! How dare she!

Yes, to me, this whole story affirms that women are 'entertainment' for men - and apparently, like Sin, are not a part of Abrahamic God's original plans.

-Sani

ETA: Thinking on this further, it shows that women cannot really be trusted. They must be under the 'watchful eye' of the man as much as possible because their own judgement is not to be trusted. See, Adam was not there (presumably) when Eve was tempted by the serpent. If Adam had been there, Mr. Logical could have told Miss. Emotional no-brains that she was an idiot and don't eat the stupid fruit. Right? Although the Bible says God says <do this> it is man's duty to follow - and man's duty to enforce on his wife those rules, and any interpretation therefrom that he sees fit. Women are too stupid to think for themselves.



Last edited by Sanitarium on Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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