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Islam and democracy
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Islam and democracy
islam is directly against democracy
72%
 72%  [ 8 ]
islam is indifferent towards democracy
18%
 18%  [ 2 ]
islam is for democracy
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11

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BMZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed or BMZ

If you read this I would appreciate your input on the matter. I remember reading somewhere that Ahmed was an active democrat on the last election in Australia.

So how do you consider the relationship bewteen islam and democracy?

Cheers


There has never been a relationship between any religion and democracy. The Bible is full of kings, killers and despots. The New Testament gave rise to despots such as the Church, Clergy and many kings, who slaughtered millions of people in the name of the Christian god. John, who wrote his gospel and Revelation junk and stuff, would have made a ruthless despot if he weren't too old. Christianity was itself rubber-stamped by an Emperor. Rotflmao!

Hitler was elected in a democracy. The so-called 'best' democracy US of A invaded Iraq based on treachery, deceit and lies.

The end of democracy will come at the hands of Jesus, who is supposed to come again as the King. †I am sure that would be the end of democracy. Can you imagine the West living under the rule of His Royal Highness Jesus or Imperial Majesty Jesus? How would the Democrats, Republicans and Armageddon-craving mad evangelists accept the rule of King Jesus? †

Has anyone noticed how undemocratic Jesus, Paul and others had been? †Laughing

Naa! I don't believe religions came to promote democracy. †Laughing

BMZ
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed or BMZ

If you read this I would appreciate your input on the matter. I remember reading somewhere that Ahmed was an active democrat on the last election in Australia.

So how do you consider the relationship bewteen islam and democracy?

Cheers



Hello

I have taken note of it and will reply to it inshaalllah after I fisnish transferring my web site from the USA to Australia which I'm currntly doing for the last 48 hours and have about a week to go

Thanks


Hello

Take your time. I appreciate that you are gonna give your opinion on the matter.

Cheers
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed or BMZ

If you read this I would appreciate your input on the matter. I remember reading somewhere that Ahmed was an active democrat on the last election in Australia.

So how do you consider the relationship bewteen islam and democracy?

Cheers


There has never been a relationship between any religion and democracy. The Bible is full of kings, killers and despots. The New Testament gave rise to despots such as the Church, Clergy and many kings, who slaughtered millions of people in the name of the Christian god. John, who wrote his gospel and Revelation junk and stuff, would have made a ruthless despot if he weren't too old. Christianity was itself rubber-stamped by an Emperor. Rotflmao!

Hitler was elected in a democracy. The so-called 'best' democracy US of A invaded Iraq based on treachery, deceit and lies.

The end of democracy will come at the hands of Jesus, who is supposed to come again as the King. †I am sure that would be the end of democracy. Can you imagine the West living under the rule of His Royal Highness Jesus or Imperial Majesty Jesus? How would the Democrats, Republicans and Armageddon-craving mad evangelists accept the rule of King Jesus? †

Has anyone noticed how undemocratic Jesus, Paul and others had been? †Laughing

Naa! I don't believe religions came to promote democracy. †Laughing

BMZ


Hi BMZ

Please, please, please why do you have to discus christianity when the question is aimed at the relationship between islam and democracy? Don't you know your own religion? I have the impression that you have are fairly good knowledge about your own religion so that should be sufficient to argue from. You have a very bad habit at this BMZ. And I think you have been told what it's called.

So I will ignore almost your entire comment, besides this "Naa! I don't believe religions came to promote democracy". So you would consider that islam is indifferent towards democracy, neither for or against? Would you care to comment on what the for instans All_Brains had to say on the subject?

Cheers
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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my early days I used to believe that Islam and Democracy could go together. But looking more and more into Islamís teachings you CANíT call the two ideologies compatible, simply because democracy makes Islam subservient to it. And in Islam godís will demands precedence over everything else. Even secularism takes a backseat to Islam.
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
Hi BMZ

Please, please, please why do you have to discus christianity when the question is aimed at the relationship between islam and democracy? Don't you know your own religion? I have the impression that you have are fairly good knowledge about your own religion so that should be sufficient to argue from. You have a very bad habit at this BMZ. And I think you have been told what it's called.


Please, please, not that card again.  Laughing All_Brains is entitled to express his views and you just had mine. That is my style, you've got to live with it.

Now answer me! Which religion teaches democracy?  Laughing

Cheers

BMZ
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam All,

I would like to add my opinion in a quick comment as Iím really busy trying to rebuild my web site after my ISP screwed up, Iím transferring it currently to a new host in Australia however I diverted the traffic to my web server as it is much faster than my current ISP, a lot of work in the last 72 hours

This comment is not debatable, i.e. I wonít be dragged into any useless debate, simply the ones who disagree with it, just reject it

I believe 100% that the Quran supports democracy, however my understanding to democracy is not just removing any ruler with ease through elections, rather every aspect in running a country must be discussed with all political parties involved then making up the best decision based on all feedback, this is for me what defines democracy,  the elections in a democratic country is nothing but that, every person state his/her opinion then the majority prevails

The democracy definition can be simplified to, a group of people discussing an important issue then making up a decision based on the majority or the same opinion. The Quran dedicated a whole sura to such concept, the sura  is called Al Shura, i.e. the discussion between a group pf believers to reach a decision based on the majority of opinions, lets look at one verse from this sura that clearly describes what the believers should be:

The verses before and after the following verse are some descriptions of the true believers in Allah, let me catch the description in verse 42:38,

And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

[The Quran ; 42:38]

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ (38)

-> The true believers are those who: And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, as well وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ , Wa Amrahum SHURA Bainahum, i.e. and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and that should be enough to define democracy for me, i.e. again: and their rule is to take counsel among themselves

Salam
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi BMZ

Please, please, please why do you have to discus christianity when the question is aimed at the relationship between islam and democracy? Don't you know your own religion? I have the impression that you have are fairly good knowledge about your own religion so that should be sufficient to argue from. You have a very bad habit at this BMZ. And I think you have been told what it's called.


Please, please, not that card again. †Laughing All_Brains is entitled to express his views and you just had mine. That is my style, you've got to live with it.

Now answer me! Which religion teaches democracy? †Laughing

Cheers

BMZ


None in my opinion! You would have known that if you had read this very short thread through. And democracy, just as all religions, are made by us humans.
Please stay on subject and start a "christianity and democracy" where it belongs if you want to discuss that subject.
Is it that hard to discuss islam? I know I asked you to contribute, but I had expected something that had something to do with islam and not christianity.

Do you have anything regarding islam?

Cheers
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All,

I would like to add my opinion in a quick comment as Iím really busy trying to rebuild my web site after my ISP screwed up, Iím transferring it currently to a new host in Australia however I diverted the traffic to my web server as it is much faster than my current ISP, a lot of work in the last 72 hours

This comment is not debatable, i.e. I wonít be dragged into any useless debate, simply the ones who disagree with it, just reject it

I believe 100% that the Quran supports democracy, however my understanding to democracy is not just removing any ruler with ease through elections, rather every aspect in running a country must be discussed with all political parties involved then making up the best decision based on all feedback, this is for me what defines democracy, †the elections in a democratic country is nothing but that, every person state his/her opinion then the majority prevails

The democracy definition can be simplified to, a group of people discussing an important issue then making up a decision based on the majority or the same opinion. The Quran dedicated a whole sura to such concept, the sura †is called Al Shura, i.e. the discussion between a group pf believers to reach a decision based on the majority of opinions, lets look at one verse from this sura that clearly describes what the believers should be:

The verses before and after the following verse are some descriptions of the true believers in Allah, let me catch the description in verse 42:38,

And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

[The Quran ; 42:38]

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ (3Cool

-> The true believers are those who: And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, as well وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ , Wa Amrahum SHURA Bainahum, i.e. and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and that should be enough to define democracy for me, i.e. again: and their rule is to take counsel among themselves

Salam


Hello Ahmed

Thank you for your contribution. Even though you will not participate in debate regarding your opinion about the value of the verse I will still post my opinion on it. Later. And other should feel free to have their say on the matter.

Cheers
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
This comment is not debatable, i.e. I wonít be dragged into any useless debate, simply the ones who disagree with it, just reject it.


Salaams, Ahmed

It is good you wrote that.  

Cheers, mate
BMZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi BMZ

Please, please, please why do you have to discus christianity when the question is aimed at the relationship between islam and democracy? Don't you know your own religion? I have the impression that you have are fairly good knowledge about your own religion so that should be sufficient to argue from. You have a very bad habit at this BMZ. And I think you have been told what it's called.


[i]Please, please, not that card again.  Laughing All_Brains is entitled to express his views and you just had mine. That is my style, you've got to live with it.


Oh, so when we show you that your "style" is retarded, you tell us that we have to live with that fact. "I'm stupid, so you're just going to have to live with that fact"  Laughing   Laughing   Laughing


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