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Islam and democracy
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Islam and democracy
islam is directly against democracy
72%
 72%  [ 8 ]
islam is indifferent towards democracy
18%
 18%  [ 2 ]
islam is for democracy
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11

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Mutley
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:56 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam All,

I would like to add my opinion in a quick comment as Iím really busy trying to rebuild my web site after my ISP screwed up, Iím transferring it currently to a new host in Australia however I diverted the traffic to my web server as it is much faster than my current ISP, a lot of work in the last 72 hours

This comment is not debatable, i.e. I wonít be dragged into any useless debate, simply the ones who disagree with it, just reject it

I believe 100% that the Quran supports democracy, however my understanding to democracy is not just removing any ruler with ease through elections, rather every aspect in running a country must be discussed with all political parties involved then making up the best decision based on all feedback, this is for me what defines democracy,  the elections in a democratic country is nothing but that, every person state his/her opinion then the majority prevails

The democracy definition can be simplified to, a group of people discussing an important issue then making up a decision based on the majority or the same opinion. The Quran dedicated a whole sura to such concept, the sura  is called Al Shura, i.e. the discussion between a group pf believers to reach a decision based on the majority of opinions, lets look at one verse from this sura that clearly describes what the believers should be:

The verses before and after the following verse are some descriptions of the true believers in Allah, let me catch the description in verse 42:38,

And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.

[The Quran ; 42:38]

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ (3Cool

-> The true believers are those who: And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, as well وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَى بَيْنَهُمْ , Wa Amrahum SHURA Bainahum, i.e. and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and that should be enough to define democracy for me, i.e. again: and their rule is to take counsel among themselves

Salam


The entire purpose of a democracy is to allow the people to be able to remove their leaders if they so choose. THAT'S what it's really about.
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Mutley
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
In my early days I used to believe that Islam and Democracy could go together. But looking more and more into Islamís teachings you CANíT call the two ideologies compatible, simply because democracy makes Islam subservient to it. And in Islam godís will demands precedence over everything else. Even secularism takes a backseat to Islam.


This is exactly correct. Or, to be even more specific, Islam is about the will of Allah, Democracy is about the will of the people. Democracy can co-exist quite nicely with Judaism and Christianity because neither is an expressly political religion. In fact Jesus even said give to Caesar what is his and give to God what is his.

However, Islam, by it's very nature, is political, and any Muslim will tell you this. Therefore, it cannot co-exist with Democracy. Actually, to make things even more specific, Democracy can co-exist with Islam, as per the case of Turkey's Islamic party, but Islam cannot co-exist with Democracy. It does not allow the people the power to remove the Caliph if they so desire strongly enough. I'm not even sure that it would allow freedom of speech, the right for one to voice their displeasure through protests and fair elections. So Democracy allows Islam to flourish, as in the example of Britain and the US, but Islam most certainly would never allow for Democracy to flourish.

And this highlights the truly despicable part about what Muslims are attempting to do. They use the fairness provided by Democracy in order to attempt to destroy it. You give them something fair, and they merely use it as a weakness. That's a lowly little weasel rat move. And they're actually proud of this. That's the even more amazing part. They consider it being proficient and clever at deception against the kafir, never considering once, the horrible sense of character and integrity that it shows about them.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Authority... Reply with quote

Islam is authoritarian.

Democracy has no room in this context.

Democracy is about developing individual constituents.

Islam is about maintaining a commitment to the "many".

It begins with the authoritarian perspective that demands - with authority - a strict adherence to the "cause" or else...

Am I in the ball park, here?



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Idioms... Reply with quote

Well, Dear mutley,

..."And this highlights the truly despicable part about what Muslims are attempting to do. They use the fairness provided by Democracy in order to attempt to destroy it. You give them something fair, and they merely use it as a weakness. That's a lowly little weasel rat move. And they're actually proud of this. That's the even more amazing part. They consider it being proficient and clever at deception against the kafir, never considering once, the horrible sense of character and integrity that it shows about them."...

In plain English, this is called: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"...

Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

islam is directly against democracy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quote Ahmed takes to argue that islam and democracy is compatible is in my opinion expressing the oppossite. It's rather giving the possibility of a theocratic democracy, ie. the ones making a mutual consultation have to be believers. They have to "keep up prayer".

This is not democracy.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in an "islamic democracy" you'd have the right to vote YES !

voting NO is ILLEGAL, and will be seen as apostacy - death penalty !

NOT VOTING will be seen as questioning islam, you will be given a chance to repent, and then - vote YES !

on a serious level, since the quran regulates all aspects of life - what matters would an "islamic parliament" decide upon ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Islam: A democracy??? Reply with quote

Shocked

That'll be the day.

Simply put: Islam is a dictatorship.

Like any dictatorship, the penalty for "straying" is death!

Twisted Evil


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