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Baal
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Quote:
9:29  is related to a very well known incident regarding the Kabba, the Kabba was a place for all to come to worship God and also to do business (trading), even the Kafiroon used to go there and do whatever they want, most of them used to go around the Kabba as a method of worshipping God, the Kafiroon also used to do a very indecent act, they used to do the Tawaf (going around the Kabba) naked, exactly like the filthy scenes we see in the Mardi Gras every year around the flawed world. When Mohammad reclaimed the Kabba, this filthy act by the kafiroon had to stop,


How did you know this cute little story?


LOL! Baal,

How come you did not know about this story?

BMZ
 Laughing

Keep the one-liners to yourself Son.
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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I know he acknowledged them and even showed reverence to Jewish prophets, for example, but the whole ‘idol–cleansing’ smacks of bigoted intolerance and puts me in mind of the buddha–destroying stories in the news last year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
So if Muhammad couldn’t accept these other religions alongside his own why should we expect muslims today to accept other religions alongside their own?



Hello

Are you Pazuzu  of free-minds?

anyway, the Muslims accept other religions as long as they don't attack us, same should be happening today, the other faiths followers should accept Isalm as long as we don't attack them
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
OJ Smoke wrote:
I agree with what AhmedBahgat had to say regarding Surah Taubah. Many Non-Muslims enjoy taking this Surah completely out of context. I suspect that they learned about Islam from Craig Winn's Website.... Twisted Evil

Surah 9 itself is self-explanatory


Greeetings & Welcome.

Just lost a reply prepared during clicking.  Sad Will try to do another, as good as I can.

Surah 9 is exploited and quoted out of context by the Islam-hating non-Muslim polemics. They know what all that means but choose to cherry-pick in order to make an invalid point. lol!

What these folks don't know is that Surah 9 Taubah should be read in conjuction with Surah 8 Anfaal. Surah 9 is a continuation of Surah 8.


And? So what difference does that make? You didn't say.

BMZ wrote:

Another important point, which the polemics fail to understand or prefer to ignore, is that the Meccans were already at war with the new Muslims and the infant Islam.


Weren't the Muslims trying to convert Meccans to join them in Medina in order to raise an army? How were the Meccans supposed to feel about this?

BMZ wrote:

It was not a peaceful time and the pagan brutal and ruthless Meccans, along with the other "Ahlul Kitaab", were continuously persecuting and hammering Muhammad and his followers.


Document it. So far, all you have is a claim that a brainwashing propagandist told you.

BMZ wrote:

Thus came the fair advance warning, giving the Meccans and their cahoots four months, the months in which even the pagans never fought and killed in their own culture. Those four months were scared in the pre-Islam culture.


What are you talking about? I've never seen anybody blatantly invent the amount of things that you (or somebody else you talked to) seem to.

BMZ wrote:

Rules of engagement were laid out clearly.


Where?

BMZ wrote:

There had to be no more any turning of the cheek, which was not working anyway and God did not want a Jesus to be made out of Muhammad, otherwise Islam would have died in infancy.  Very Happy


Then why didn't Christianity? That should have died in it's infancy as well. But according to the Book of Acts, Jesus did indeed send the Holy Spirit to his Apostles, and they began performing miraculous healings which allowed them to spread the religion. They didn't have an army like Muhammad did, and yet they spread it all over Greece and Rome without a single sword being drawn.

BMZ wrote:

No matter what twist, turn and spin the polemics put on Surah 9, the period of four months was enough and fair time for both sides to take note and the Muslims overcame the ruthless pagan pagan Meccans and their colleagues in arms.  Very Happy

Salaams
BMZ


What exactly did the ruthless pagans do? According to the hadiths, they made a very compromising agreement with Muhammad, before Muhammad amassed a huge army. They agreed to actually abandon their city for a few days so that Muslims could come and worship at their Ka'aba (which in fact finds it's actual roots in Meccan paganism).They both put great reverence to the Black Stone and the Ka'aba. Yes, while the Jews and Christians never even recognize the Black Stone and the Ka'aba, the pagans of that age put a great deal of reverence into it, as did Muhammad.

So, the agreement worked fine the first year. The Meccans honored the bargain and left for a few days. But by the second year, the Muslim army grew to 10,000. So at the same time in the second year when they were supposed to come for pilgrimage, they actually came to conquer. They brought 10,000 armed men along with them in their "supposed" pilgrimage.

Why the change? It's pretty simple to see. Muhammad never had any real intention of keeping that agreement. How could he possibly accept being a guest once a year? Of course he couldn't accept that, he was merely deceiving the Meccans in order to buy time, and the Meccans, trying to be compromising and practical, didn't see through this deception.  
Muhammad was merely practicing "Hudna", which is the doctrine that allows Muslims to make short term agreements with the enemy to lull them to sleep, and give the Muslims the chance to get stronger. Then, the next year, when he had a huge army, the Meccans surrendered because Muhammad's army was simply too large for them. Muhammad must have been like...."oh well, you're stupid, you trusted me, hah hah hah".  There's your Profit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Response: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Are you Pazuzu  of free-minds?

Indeed. Hence the same name, haha.

AhmedBahgat wrote:
anyway, the Muslims accept other religions as long as they don't attack us, same should be happening today, the other faiths followers should accept Isalm as long as we don't attack them

I intended to post a lengthy response to this, but instead I shall refer you to Mutley’s post above mine, with reference to his last paragraph. The pagans did not attack Muhammad’s religion when they agreed to a treaty allowing him to return to Makkah for Hajj — yet he went in and destroyed the images of their religions!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Response: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Are you Pazuzu  of free-minds?

Indeed. Hence the same name, haha.


Good to know, I still needed to confirm BTW

AhmedBahgat wrote:
anyway, the Muslims accept other religions as long as they don't attack us, same should be happening today, the other faiths followers should accept Isalm as long as we don't attack them


Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
I intended to post a lengthy response to this, but instead I shall refer you to Mutley’s post above mine, with reference to his last paragraph.



Mute is a dog and he has been dismissed for life in the rubbish bin

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
 The pagans did not attack Muhammad’s religion when they agreed to a treaty allowing him to return to Makkah for Hajj — yet he went in and destroyed the images of their religions!



As far as I know what Mohammed destroyed is their crap of idols that they erected in the vicinity of Kaaba (the house of the One God) and he has 100% right to do so,now if you don't believe that there is only one god then that is your bloody problem not Mohammed's nor the Muslims's,  it seems you are still confused as you have been at Free-Minds, that is expected becvause FM is nothing but a shrking hole of ignorant

cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not feel ‘confused’ — I have come to a conclusion which I believe valid. I also believe I have an inherent right to take this view, but feel only fear and regret at leaving my old life behind, and of narrow–minded bigots who would no doubt kill me if they discovered I had renounced Islam.

EDIT: Wait… Free Minds? No. I don’t know that site. I post here at Free FAITH, and on another forum dedicated to those who have left the Islamic life behind, but yes I do call myself Pazuzu there.

OK, I’ve just looked up this Free Minds site you mentioned and I have nothing to do with the person called Pazuzu there. He lives in Kuwait and quotes from the film 300. I live in England and haven’t even watched that film! We simply happen to share a kickarse name! Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
And? So what difference does that make? You didn't say.


And what did you understand after reading surahs 8 and 9 together, assuming that you did read? Laughing  

Mutley wrote:
Weren't the Muslims trying to convert Meccans to join them in Medina in order to raise an army?

How were the Meccans supposed to feel about this?


No, not at all.

The Meccans just felt threatened by the new Muslims proclaiming One Almighty God, which was shaking the foundations of their idolatory.  

BMZ wrote:

It was not a peaceful time and the pagan brutal and ruthless Meccans, along with the other "Ahlul Kitaab", were continuously persecuting and hammering Muhammad and his followers.


Mutley wrote:
Document it. So far, all you have is a claim that a brainwashing propagandist told you.


What documentation? Don't be silly! Read Islamic History and go figure. Looks to me like you are the gullible victim of an anti-Islam propaganda.  Laughing  

BMZ wrote:

Thus came the fair advance warning, giving the Meccans and their cahoots four months, the months in which even the pagans never fought and killed in their own culture. Those four months were scared in the pre-Islam culture.


Mutley wrote:
What are you talking about? I've never seen anybody blatantly invent the amount of things that you (or somebody else you talked to) seem to.


Many posters, who do not know much, pretend and always ask, "What are you talking about?" You know bloody well what I am talking about. You appear or choose not to understand.

BMZ wrote:

Rules of engagement were laid out clearly.


Mutley wrote:
Where?


Rolling Eyes Where?

In Qur'aan. Before putting down foolish comments, read and understand.


BMZ wrote:

There had to be no more any turning of the cheek, which was not working anyway and God did not want a Jesus to be made out of Muhammad, otherwise Islam would have died in infancy.  Very Happy


Mutley wrote:
Then why didn't Christianity? That should have died in it's infancy as well.


The Way of Jesus died. There was no such thing as Christianity in the days during and long after Jesus. Christianity started 315 years after Jesus was gone. Christianity was a new cult established , using Jesus as an anchor-man but has nothing to do with the ways of Real or True Jesus. Christianity was spread as a fraud. It is slowly dying out anyway.

Mutley wrote:
But according to the Book of Acts, Jesus did indeed send the Holy Spirit to his Apostles, and they began performing miraculous healings which allowed them to spread the religion. They didn't have an army like Muhammad did, and yet they spread it all over Greece and Rome without a single sword being drawn.


If Jesus had the powers, he would have healed the entire world, would have removed sin, pain, diseases, illnesses, death, sufferings, etc.  The Holy Spirit had already been into the world many times before the birth of Jesus. There is no record in the History of the world, showing those people doing miraculous healings, except in the NT. They used deceit by giving the Gentiles a triune god which sounded platable to the Greek and Roman Gentiles. That is why Trinity was coined and set up to please them and make the religion acceptable.

Mutley wrote:
What exactly did the ruthless pagans do?


Read Qur'aan and Islamic history. What does Hudna mean in Arabic? Do you know that?I have no comments on your other silly comments.  Laughing

BMZ


Last edited by BMZ on Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
I do not feel ‘confused’ — I have come to a conclusion which I believe valid. I also believe I have an inherent right to take this view, but feel only fear and regret at leaving my old life behind, and of narrow–minded bigots who would no doubt kill me if they discovered I had renounced Islam.

EDIT: Wait… Free Minds? No. I don’t know that site. I post here at Free FAITH, and on another forum dedicated to those who have left the Islamic life behind, but yes I do call myself Pazuzu there.

OK, I’ve just looked up this Free Minds site you mentioned and I have nothing to do with the person called Pazuzu there. He lives in Kuwait and quotes from the film 300. I live in England and haven’t even watched that film! We simply happen to share a kickarse name! Wink



it seems you share more than a stupid name  Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Quote:
9:29  is related to a very well known incident regarding the Kabba, the Kabba was a place for all to come to worship God and also to do business (trading), even the Kafiroon used to go there and do whatever they want, most of them used to go around the Kabba as a method of worshipping God, the Kafiroon also used to do a very indecent act, they used to do the Tawaf (going around the Kabba) naked, exactly like the filthy scenes we see in the Mardi Gras every year around the flawed world. When Mohammad reclaimed the Kabba, this filthy act by the kafiroon had to stop,


How did you know this cute little story?


LOL! Baal,

How come you did not know about this story?

BMZ
 Laughing

Keep the one-liners to yourself Son.


Daddy Dude,  Laughing why do you always sound so stupid? Can't you really discuss something and hold an exchange of intellectual thoughts? I do find you amusing like your sister Ms.Westerner but I like substance. Give it a try.lol!

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