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The Silence of God
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Does God exist?
Yes
41%
 41%  [ 5 ]
No
58%
 58%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 12

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All_Brains
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Ameen wrote:
Quote:
Or a simple c) God is silent, because he does not exist!


I disaagree and view this, a bit simplistic.

Silence is not a condition of non existence, and neither is evil.

I haven;t heard the guy who buily my computer speak, but he definitely does exist!

Stalin was evil, but he definitely did exist!

I hope you fathom the point.

Ameen:)


Sure! I just added possibility no.4, which is the next logical assumption for a no-show being!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All_Brains:
Quote:
Sure! I just added possibility no.4, which is the next logical assumption for a no-show being!


Actually it was me who added possibity no. 4, you stopped at 3, but whose keeping score right? Razz


Of course, the 4th option is yours for your credit.

I just happen to completely agree with it and passed it onto the thread initiator.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread but I would like to add another point-of-view. What if God is not silent and through evolution we have either lost the ability or have not yet gained the ability to hear him/her/it?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KrisP wrote:
Interesting thread but I would like to add another point-of-view. What if God is not silent and through evolution we have either lost the ability or have not yet gained the ability to hear him/her/it?


Hello KrisP

Congrats on your first post! You seem to be an observer, a sign for a great intellect!

Excellent point, reminds of the Celestine Prophecy where enlightenment can only be achieved through the evolution of the mind achieved by "the collective awareness".

The only dilemma with this theory that the very end pile will experience all the glory of uniting with the source, for they have achieved the required developed perception to sense his/her/its existence!

The primitive ones, although crucial to the development of the awareness will not end up having the same glory. It seems a little unfair to me!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WE all know that famous sentence from Friedrich Nitzsche: "Gott ist tot!"
[God id dead, wheras god says: "Nietzsche is dead!"]

It might also be possible that "GOD" died... why not?

And in his death, all the energy became our universe... and why not?

PPooofff... here he went... and there the universe goes... expanding and expanding

Since my reply in this other thread fits into this thread so well, I will just copy and paste this into here:



Lets take a quick look at the entity of this alleged "God"....

I was always asking myself, why religions, [Islam is just one of those] insist on ONE god?
Who says so ?
A "prophet"...
or maybe many prophets.....
thousands of prophets have been roaming the earth!
Who knows whatever they said....

And thats all for a reasoning?

How did they know?

Oh, yeah, god told them!
As they are "prophets"!!!!
Its their Job to have talks with this singular "God" !
They get payed for that!

Couldn't it also be that there is a whole football-team, including trainers, docs, managers, and a group of cheer-leaders - all of 'em "gods" ?

And WHY not ?
By WHAT binding REASON ?

and as for - "always was and will always be" - the same question: says WHO ?

again - the "prophets"... the ones who's job it is and who are getting payed for predictions of all kinds, end-time scenarios, heavenly remedies [camel urine!], etc...

Maaaan... those "prophets" must have been a nuisance !!!!
On every streetcorner, not only one, nooo, they stood and proclaimed in bunches, heaps, bundles - each one trying to "sell" you his specif "messages" !!!!

Maybe this "God", and all the other "gods", were "NOT always there and will always be there" !!
Maybe its the other way around, they die on a daily basis, and re-create themselves every other day, or next week... or never?

Its a whole lotta questions, when you question everything !

And WHY not questioning everything ?

Ahhhh... because this specific singular entity has SAID so.... don't question, don't ask... just "believe" !!!

OR ELSE......... Hellfire !

Maybe "Hell" is a hell of an interesting place to be......
Meet Mohammad, et al...


back to the control-switch, keeping all the flock in the herd !


Personally, I think that this entity "god" is a highly unfair thing !
Very undemocratic and egoistic, egocentric and maybe also a bit of an egomaniac !
Its always about HIM !!!!
And nobody else is ever able to climb onto his throne and take over!!!!

THIS is DICTATORSHIP !!!
In MY eyes !!

Viva la Revolucion !!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
WE all know that famous sentence from Friedrich Nitzsche: "Gott ist tot!"
[God id dead, wheras god says: "Nietzsche is dead!"]

It might also be possible that "GOD" died... why not?


Because that would mean that God had a beginning as well, if God could have an end. Therefore, that wouldn't be God because we would ask what God created God, and so on and so on and so on. Infinitite regression of cause. If there is a God, it is undeniable that God cannot be a created being and must be something outside of physicality itself. Metaphysical maybe? Call it whatever you want. Otherwise, if God is within physicality, then a cause or origin must be attributed to God, and therefore, the cause could be considered to be the real God. Nietzsche was a pompous moron sometimes.

HomoErectus wrote:

And in his death, all the energy became our universe... and why not?


Where did God get the energy from? Wouldn't that then be a cause of God and therefore God? If God exists, logic demands that God be uncaused. Strangely enough, the sack cloth ancients actually got that part right. They were even smarter than Nietzche, as obviously he couldn't see the flaw in his thinking.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katlike wrote:
There is also a fourth option, God does exsist, but just not in the ways that have always been described. Some profound entity who sits on a throne with a set of laws and rituals he likes watching us live by.
What if god is more of an energy, more like a thought, a way of feeling that connects humans to each other and to this earth? Would that make god inexistant if the religious texts are wrong?
I have an easier time believing the Bibles are the "inspired" words of God, than I do that the koran is the actual words of god. It's easier to comprehend that god inspires humans, than to actually dictate.
I hope all that made sense, it's early here on a holiday morning and I am barely into my first cup of coffee. Laughing

katlike



Hello Katlike.
What you say make sense.
I also believe that “God” is an energy. An energy we are all part off.
As in everything, and everywhere. Good and bad. There is nothing that he/she is not.
This omni-present conscious power we call God.
The kingdom of God is a state of the mind, in which we experience happiness, love and freedom. Therefore, the kingdom of God is within us.
We only will experience this state of mind when we really know ourselves, our inner being, who we really are. We can only acquire this knowledge, by recognizing the evil inclinations within us, and subsequently fighting these evil powers.

These thoughts make me happy, but other times I doubt, and think there is no God..

Spilt personality All_Brains? Laughing Or am I just a doubter.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

katlike wrote:
Quote:
All_Brains:
Quote:
Sure! I just added possibility no.4, which is the next logical assumption for a no-show being!


Actually it was me who added possibity no. 4, you stopped at 3, but whose keeping score right? Razz


Of course, the 4th option is yours for your credit.

I just happen to completely agree with it and passed it onto the thread initiator.


Hey katlike, remember me??? We used to talk about "rare rare rare" subjects of de Mello and krishnamurti. Remember how "rare rare rare: that was?? You started your own alley way for that mizz kitty and I used to be a guest singer there, rare rare rare, scratch scratch. Maybe we were both high on catnip that night Laughing Lord knows the trashcans were full of it back then, weren't they?. Fist fist. Rare rare. Crackle crackle. Show it to me cat babe. You know you want this Mutley dog. (winkee winkee) Laughing .
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
WE all know that famous sentence from Friedrich Nitzsche: "Gott ist tot!"
[God id dead, wheras god says: "Nietzsche is dead!"]

It might also be possible that "GOD" died... why not?


Because that would mean that God had a beginning as well, if God could have an end. Therefore, that wouldn't be God because we would ask what God created God, and so on and so on and so on. Infinitite regression of cause. If there is a God, it is undeniable that God cannot be a created being and must be something outside of physicality itself. Metaphysical maybe? Call it whatever you want. Otherwise, if God is within physicality, then a cause or origin must be attributed to God, and therefore, the cause could be considered to be the real God. Nietzsche was a pompous moron sometimes.



Dear Mutley

You bring up exactly what I said at some other point, we tend to apply HUMAN logic onto "God[s]" !

All I'm trying to do is exactly to GET AWAY from this human logic, when thinking about the possibility of "God[s]".


HomoErectus wrote:

And in his death, all the energy became our universe... and why not?


Quote:

Where did God get the energy from? Wouldn't that then be a cause of God and therefore God? If God exists, logic demands that God be uncaused.



See what I mean, you [human being] think that it is all like in a chain reaction, one follows the other, and so on.....

"Logic demands", you say - WHAT logic might this be?

It is these questions which have made me become an AGNOSTIC - which, in the worldly sense, means that I do NOT know.

And I realize, that all theories are just speculations, assumptions... "belief" again !

When actually we KNOW literally nothing, we are not able to think in these [possible or not] categories.


Quote:

Strangely enough, the sack cloth ancients actually got that part right. They were even smarter than Nietzche, as obviously he couldn't see the flaw in his thinking.



Nietzsche was an "agent provocateur" sometimes.
And he was/is greatly misunderstood, as being the fascist philosopher.


As for the "sack cloth ancients"....
They were laying the foundations for all the miseries, death and destruction, all across the centuries, across all the regions or countries, continents, places - all of them religions doing the same, at some point of history.

I despise them all.

They are designed to bring some good for the people, help them in all their personal insecurities, and yet...
It all turns into blood, death and destruction!

And at the same time hypocritically invoking their "God[s]", acting "oh-so-holy" - Death in the name of their "GOD[s]" !!!

Isn't it despicable?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
WE all know that famous sentence from Friedrich Nitzsche: "Gott ist tot!"
[God id dead, wheras god says: "Nietzsche is dead!"]

It might also be possible that "GOD" died... why not?


Because that would mean that God had a beginning as well, if God could have an end. Therefore, that wouldn't be God because we would ask what God created God, and so on and so on and so on. Infinitite regression of cause. If there is a God, it is undeniable that God cannot be a created being and must be something outside of physicality itself. Metaphysical maybe? Call it whatever you want. Otherwise, if God is within physicality, then a cause or origin must be attributed to God, and therefore, the cause could be considered to be the real God. Nietzsche was a pompous moron sometimes.



Dear Mutley

You bring up exactly what I said at some other point, we tend to apply HUMAN logic onto "God[s]" !

All I'm trying to do is exactly to GET AWAY from this human logic, when thinking about the possibility of "God[s]".


Gods are logically impossible as well. If there are multiple Gods, then which God preceded which? Isn't the first one the origin and therefore the real God? It's one thing for one entity to poof into existence out of thin air without cause, but multiple ones doing it at the same time?


HomoErectus wrote:

And in his death, all the energy became our universe... and why not?


Quote:

Where did God get the energy from? Wouldn't that then be a cause of God and therefore God? If God exists, logic demands that God be uncaused.



See what I mean, you [human being] think that it is all like in a chain reaction, one follows the other, and so on.....[/quote]

Can you show me anything physical that is uncaused? No end is understasndable to the conceptualizing mind, but no beginning is beyond it. So if God could die, then God had a beginning, and if God had a beginning, what was responsible for that beginning? Can anything come from nothing?

HomoErectus wrote:

"Logic demands", you say - WHAT logic might this be?


Any logic. Let's simply call God "the ultimate source". If God were found to have a source, could that God still be called God, i.e. the ultimate source? No. There's no way around that.

HomoErectus wrote:

It is these questions which have made me become an AGNOSTIC - which, in the worldly sense, means that I do NOT know..

And I realize, that all theories are just speculations, assumptions... "belief" again !

When actually we KNOW literally nothing, we are not able to think in these [possible or not] categories.


That's fine. Maybe we cannot really say what God is because it would be beyond the conceptualizing mind. But we CAN say what God isn't.

HomoErectus wrote:

Quote:

Strangely enough, the sack cloth ancients actually got that part right. They were even smarter than Nietzche, as obviously he couldn't see the flaw in his thinking.



Nietzsche was an "agent provocateur" sometimes.
And he was/is greatly misunderstood, as being the fascist philosopher.


Regardless of other issues, he nade a mistake on this one.

HomoErectus wrote:

As for the "sack cloth ancients"....
They were laying the foundations for all the miseries, death and destruction, all across the centuries, across all the regions or countries, continents, places - all of them religions doing the same, at some point of history.

I despise them all.


Does the gun kill or the person?

HomoErectus wrote:

They are designed to bring some good for the people, help them in all their personal insecurities, and yet...
It all turns into blood, death and destruction!


I can't deny the outcomes.

HomoErectus wrote:

And at the same time hypocritically invoking their "God[s]", acting "oh-so-holy" - Death in the name of their "GOD[s]" !!!

Isn't it despicable?


Yes. It's ignorance at it's finest. When I run into people like that, I go through a few steps with them and end up proving that they do not love God, they love what God is supposed to do for them. There's a difference. When someone needs God, then real love of God is impossible because they will ultimately merely end up loving the fulfillment of their need, not God. Some people are like solid bricks and I explain it to them over and over and over again, but they just can't get it. Maybe it's because they don't want to get it. Probably, because the concept is a simple, self evident truth.


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