Misinformation & Misreporting in the Gospels.

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David
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

BMZ wrote:

Servatus wrote:

Cite the appropriate scriptures, please.

Actually, I was referring to David's post of Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:11 am and bold emphasis in his quote, is mine.

Quote:

The Jews knew their scriptures. Upon hearing what Jesus claimed in John 10:25-29, they would have been reminded of their scriptures:

Deuteronomy 32:39

39 "See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.

1 Samuel 2:6
6 "The LORD brings death and makes alive;
he brings down to the grave and raises up.

According to the New Testament, it is Jesus who raises the dead them their gaves.

Therefore, if Jesus is supposed to be the LORD, which he is definitely NOT, it would mean Jesus also wounds people, puts people to death and sends them to graves and then raises them up.

What do you think, Servatus? I believe you have taken the nick from Servetus, who was burnt up alive by Christ's followers.

BMZ

According to the Qur'an it is Allah who causes death and raises the dead.

How can ye reject the faith in Allah?- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return. (Surah 2:2

The logical conclusion is that the incarnate Word of God (Jesus, the Messiah) is Allah.

BMZ
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

David wrote:

The logical conclusion is that the incarnate Word of God (Jesus, the Messiah) is Allah.

Yes, like the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Deutronomy and Deuteronomy 32:39 & 1 Samuel 2:6),
Qur'aan also confirms the same that Allah gives life and death.

As for poor Jesus, he himself was given life by Allah (LORD) and was also given death. Allah will raise him on the Day of Judgement along with all. Till then, let Jesus RIP.

By the way, the messiah was never expected to be either a word or God. Word doesn't incarnate anything. If God had to incarnate somebody's bodybag, God would have to go in Himself and this is one thing which God CANNOT do.

God does not give HIS Glory to anybody's bodybag.

Cheers.
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Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)

David
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

BMZ wrote:

Yes, like the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Deutronomy and Deuteronomy 32:39 & 1 Samuel 2:6), Qur'aan also confirms the same that Allah gives life and death.

Since Jesus gives eternal life, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus is God incarnate.

BMZ
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

David wrote:

BMZ wrote:

Yes, like the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Deutronomy and Deuteronomy 32:39 & 1 Samuel 2:6), Qur'aan also confirms the same that Allah gives life and death.

Since Jesus gives eternal life, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus is God incarnate.

There is no proof available that Jesus gives eternal life. There is no single direct statement from him anywhere in the New T, "I give eternal life to all". What we read is the opinion of the NT writers and that was never the opinion of Jesus.

Saying that Jesus gives eternal life is a mockery of the LORD Almighty.

Jesus did not say that himself. As such it cannot be accepted. The Holy Scriptures confirm that only the LORD Almighty God can do that. You have yourself acknowledged that confirmation in your post by quoting from Deut and Samuel.
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Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)

David
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

BMZ wrote:

David wrote:

BMZ wrote:

Yes, like the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Deutronomy and Deuteronomy 32:39 & 1 Samuel 2:6), Qur'aan also confirms the same that Allah gives life and death.

Since Jesus gives eternal life, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus is God incarnate.

The fact is that Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through him. The fact is Peter said “And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

This means your Muslim goose is cooked.

This also means your poor prophet's goose is cooked.

Keep in mind that God allowed your poor prophet to be murdered by a Jewish woman who put poison in his meat. Consider it God's judgment on your poor prophet. Your poor prophet rotted in the ground; Jesus is alive in heaven with the Father. Even your own Quran confirms this fact.

My point by quoting Deut and 1 Samuel was to point out that Jesus is YHWH incarnate. No mere man can give eternal life only YHWH can and since Jesus can that means Jesus is YHWH incarnate.

BMZ
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

David wrote:

BMZ wrote:

David wrote:

BMZ wrote:

Yes, like the Jewish Holy Scriptures (Deutronomy and Deuteronomy 32:39 & 1 Samuel 2:6), Qur'aan also confirms the same that Allah gives life and death.

Since Jesus gives eternal life, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus is God incarnate.

lol!

Just wait till the Israeli archaeologists find the grave of Jesus and bring out my dear Jesus' skeleton for Carbon-dating. lol! That day the Trinitarian Christian goose will be vapourised. lol!

Peter was an incompetent man. Peter and all the disciples did not and could not understand Jesus. They are on record in the NT for saying that.

That statement simply means, "I will guide you to God." There is nothing great or wonderful in it. That is all there is to it.

Cheers
BMZ
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Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)

David
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

BMZ wrote:

Just wait till the Israeli archaeologists find the grave of Jesus and bring out my dear Jesus' skeleton for Carbon-dating. lol! That day the Trinitarian Christian goose will be vapourised. lol!

OK, I'll wait, but in the meantime.....

BMZ wrote:

Peter was an incompetent man. Peter and all the disciples did not and could not understand Jesus. They are on record in the NT for saying that.

They understood after Jesus rose from the dead.

BMZ wrote:

That statement simply means, "I will guide you to God." There is nothing great or wonderful in it. That is all there is to it.

You wish.

Why is it that your usual argument seems to be:

"Jesus didn't say that"

"Peter was incompetent"

And stuff.

What kind of an argument is that?

Could it be that you know the Quran contradicts the Holy Bible and this is your only way out?

BMZ
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

David, The gospels contradict among themelves, the NT contradicts the OT. The Christian Bible is full of contradictions and those are huge. Let us take an example. "In the beginning was the word,...............the word was God." Do you consider this as the words or teachings of Jesus? The answer is a solid no and you know that. You also know that this was John's view, not that of Jesus. The Christian Bible is full of personal opinions of the writers and those who directed the writers. Thus, I have to point out that Jesus did not say this or that. Trinity, hypostatic union, incarnation, etc, etc., were never taught or even mentioned by Jesus. Even all the disciples and the gospel writers died without knowing these. The three did not know at all about John's Word. Qur'aan tells us that the scriptures were forged in and we do find that to be true. Cheers & Good Night BMZ _________________ Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)

David
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

BMZ wrote:

David,

The gospels contradict among themelves, the NT contradicts the OT. The Christian Bible is full of contradictions and those are huge.

Jesus came to correct the OT teachings. The Jews misunderstood who the Messiah was to be and what he was to do. Most expected a militant Messiah; Jesus taught there is a better way.

The Gospels agree on the essentials, do they not? Jesus said he would die; he did; they say that Jesus would rise again and he did. This is what you should concentrate on.

BMZ wrote:

Let us take an example. "In the beginning was the word,...............the word was God."

Do you consider this as the words or teachings of Jesus?

These words demonstrate the belief that Jesus is God incarnate, based on what Jesus did and what Jesus said.

BMZ wrote:

The answer is a solid no and you know that. You also know that this was John's view, not that of Jesus.

See answer above.

BMZ wrote:

The Christian Bible is full of personal opinions of the writers and those who directed the writers.

The opinion of those who walked with Jesus and were taught by Jesus is important in order to know just who Jesus believed he was and who his followers believed he was.

BMZ wrote:

Thus, I have to point out that Jesus did not say this or that. Trinity, hypostatic union, incarnation, etc, etc., were never taught or even mentioned by Jesus.

If Jesus was just a prophet as your Quran says and if that was what Jesus preached, then there would be no need to try to explain further, would there? The problem is that Jesus said things that cannot be explained other than the Trinity or the hypostatic union or the incarnation.

If Jesus preached "there is only one God" the Jews would have had no reason to try to kill him.

BMZ wrote:

Even all the disciples and the gospel writers died without knowing these. The three did not know at all about John's Word.

Not true.

BMZ wrote:

Qur'aan tells us that the scriptures were forged in and we do find that to be true.

It is the Quran that is inaccurate and "forged" as you put it. The Quran claims to confirm past revelations, but it does not. The Muslim out is to say that the NT Scriptures "were forged." How pathetic.

Your prophet did not have clue one who Jesus really was or claimed to be and neither do you.

David
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: May I join you two

Servatus wrote:

Or is this a limited conversation?

You are now cordially invited to join this conversation.

FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT