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Misinformation & Misreporting in the Gospels.
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: May I join you two  Reply with quote

David wrote:
It is the Quran that is inaccurate and "forged" as you put it.


David, are you a native speaker of English? You should have written the above sentence to say that you consider Qur'aan that way, not me. lol! Please do not twist and give the impression as if I wrote that.

My stand is: Qur'aan says the Bible is forged. It contains lots of forgeries added in. And reading from the Alpha to the Omega of the Christian Bible, we can easily pinpoint all the forgeries added in.


David wrote:
The Quran claims to confirm past revelations, but it does not.   The Muslim out is to say that the NT Scriptures "were forged."  How pathetic.  

Your prophet did not have clue one who Jesus really was or claimed to be and neither do you.


Qur'aan confirms the past true revelations, some of which can be found in the Christian Bible but it does not confirm the books as you have them. You will never find the word Bible or it's equivalent in Qur'aan at all. Thus Qur'aan does not accept or confirm the Old Testament and the New Testament, which were not composed by Moses and Jesus.

That is why Qur'aan uses the term "Wa maa ootia Musa" or "Wa maa ootia Esa", "Wa maa ootian-nabeey-yin" which means, "What Moses was given" or "What Jesus was given" or "What prophets were given" in terms of direct revelations.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and other writers of the Bible were not given anything. They just wrote stories which they heard from people who had heard it from others, who, in turn, had heard from others before them, something like our Hadith, which has been mostly narrated by men.

Thus the entire Christian Bible was neither revealed to Moses nor to Jesus. Look at it this way. The book Revelation was not at revealed to John. It was also not at all revealed to Jesus but it was slipped into the Bible. You can say that Revelation was forged into the Bible. Same goes for gospels and acts. You can also add John as another forgery with his own opening lines.

Thus you see the Prophet was given all the clues in Qur'aan and we get all these clues from Qur'aan too.

Cheers
BMZ

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Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)
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David
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: May I join you two Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
David wrote:
It is the Quran that is inaccurate and "forged" as you put it.


David, are you a native speaker of English? You should have written the above sentence to say that you consider Qur'aan that way, not me. lol! Please do not twist and give the impression as if I wrote that.


I didn't twist anything.  You used the word "forged."

You said Qur'aan tells us that the scriptures were forged in and we do find that to be true.

Most English speaking people would read my sentence as:

No, BMZ, it is not the scriptures that have been "forged," it is the Quran that is inaccurate and "forged," to use your term.  My phrase "as you put it" refers back to the word "forged" (notice I put it in quotes) and that is the term you used.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: May I join you two Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:


Qur'aan confirms the past true revelations, some of which can be found in the Christian Bible but it does not confirm the books as you have them. You will never find the word Bible or it's equivalent in Qur'aan at all. Thus Qur'aan does not accept or confirm the Old Testament and the New Testament, which were not composed by Moses and Jesus.  


You do not need the term "Bible" in the Quran.  The Jews and the Christians are called "the people of the Book."  The "book" is their Scriptures.

Your position is a cop-out in order to cover up the fact that the Quran does not confirm the past revelations, which it claims to do:

And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel -- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what IS with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done. S. 4:47

And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what IS before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed; S. 5:48 Shakir

And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which IS before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly. S. 6:92 Shakir

This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. S. 10:37

In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

And that We have revealed to thee of the Book is the truth, confirming what IS before it; God is aware of and sees His servants. S. 35:31

No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed the Envoys. S. 37:37

Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers. S. 46:12

They said: O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which IS before it, guiding to the truth and to a right path: S. 46:30 Shakir

BMZ wrote:


That is why Qur'aan uses the term "Wa maa ootia Musa" or "Wa maa ootia Esa", "Wa maa ootian-nabeey-yin" which means, "What Moses was given" or "What Jesus was given" or "What prophets were given" in terms of direct revelations.  


And these instructions/revelations were written down in the Old and New Testaments.

BMZ wrote:


Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and other writers of the Bible were not given anything. They just wrote stories which they heard from people who had heard it from others, who, in turn, had heard from others before them, something like our Hadith, which has been mostly narrated by men.  


The New Testament represents what Jesus said and what Jesus did.  Jesus' gospel was preached orally for some time and then written down in the lifetime of many of Jesus' disciples and followers who would have mentioned that they were inaccurate if they had been.  All the books of the New Testament were written in the first century, most before the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD.

BMZ wrote:


Thus the entire Christian Bible was neither revealed to Moses nor to Jesus. Look at it this way. The book Revelation was not at revealed to John. It was also not at all revealed to Jesus but it was slipped into the Bible. You can say that Revelation was forged into the Bible. Same goes for gospels and acts. You can also add John as another forgery with his own opening lines.  


BMZ, you can think anything you want to think and your comments above are only what you think.  This is the only way you can believe the Quran.  

BMZ wrote:


Thus you see the Prophet was given all the clues in Qur'aan and we get all these clues from Qur'aan too.


I understand why you have to believe that, but the fact remains that you have no proof of your faith, no proof Muhammad was a real prophet, no proof the Quran came from the Creator, no proof that what Muhammad claimed to receive is actually represented in today's Quran.

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