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WHAT THE F***K?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: WHAT THE F***K?  Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:

The problem is that you are trying to learn from the internet sites and forums. Stop visiting them and instead read Qur'aan with full concentration and try to understand the message.


Excuse me? But could you explain something here? Like ...

WHAT THE HELL IS THE MESSAGE OF THE QUR'AN, ANYWAYS?

Every time I talk to one of you holier-than-thou Muslims each of you makes some totally screwed up explanation of whatever the hell it is you think the Qur'an actually says, and every time it's a bloody different explanation.

I have studied Islam for years, even as an x- Muslim, and I have yet to meet any Muslim, scholar or otherwise, who can actually agree with anyone else as to what the hell the Qur'an is talking about.

The reason is obvious; the damn book is a mumbo-jumbo pile of garbage that keeps weak-minded people such as yourself enslaved in ignorance. The Quran is totally useless in the modern world as far as promoting world peace, human rights, and proper education. It actually deprives potentially brilliant people from realizing their own potential, and constantly detriments the harmony of the rest of the world.

All we ever see in the news is how Islamic extremists killed another bunch of innocent people, and you sit there and try to tell someone to go figure out the Quran?

Listen man, why don't you call an interior decorator to come into your life and change the color of the sky in your screwed up world? Look; don't be trying to condemn someone to eternal ignorance by telling them to go figure out the message of the Quran when you yourself don't have a god damn clue what that crazy book is trying to say.

Ok?

Get a grip. It's the 21st century and Muslims are looking like idiotic throw-backs to the 6th century. Stop embarrassing humanity with your pathetically outdated belief system that's not worth the gun powder it would take to blow it to hell.

Get real.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Stop acting desperate like those hadith worshippers mister baal

they are the ones who didn't obey Mohammed by wrtings other books next to the Quran

I;m the one who is fully obeying Mohammed and everything he said as stated in the Quran

So the book tells you to obey muhammad.
And what muhamad said is the book.
That is a nice point Ahmed but it some points do not gain more credibility beyond being a "nice point". We have to drop the "Nice points" when they do not match with reality.


33:21 - "uswa hasana" - a model to follow an excellent model of conduct (33:21).

4:80 - ďhe who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad], obeys AllahĒ

How are we supposed to follow the model of muhammad from the koran alone? Are we supposed to follow his model in talking to gibreel by any chance?

And other things missing from the koran, like how to pray, how to do the Haj, How to fast Ramadan, some Hudud was specified in koran but it does not cover most situations, how are we to cover them without koran?

On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.

94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.

Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Baal"]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Stop acting desperate like those hadith worshippers mister baal

they are the ones who didn't obey Mohammed by wrtings other books next to the Quran

I;m the one who is fully obeying Mohammed and everything he said as stated in the Quran



Baal wrote:
So the book tells you to obey muhammad.


Ecaxtly, The Quran orders me to obey him and I obey every word he was ordered to say according to the Quran

Baal wrote:
And what muhamad said is the book.



Mohammed said nothing, it was Allah talking all along and He told us many times that He ordered Mohammed to say, say, say ,say,

Baal wrote:
That is a nice point Ahmed but it some points do not gain more credibility beyond being a "nice point". We have to drop the "Nice points" when they do not match with reality.


sounds like you are going to slam dunk yourself, look pal, there is nothing nice about my point, my point is a fact as stated in the Quran, itís you along with your pals the idol worshippers who need to live reality, let me see how you are using their non sense:

Baal wrote:
33:21 - "uswa hasana" - a model to follow an excellent model of conduct (33:21).


hahahaha, read this:

What you are saying using 33:21 is nothing but the same crap by  the idol worshippers say. The Quran never said exclusively  to take Mohammed alone as an example, this is the lame argument the idol worshippers use, they say the following verse clearly suggest to take Mohammed through the man made hadith as an example:

Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example, for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

[The Quran ; 33:21]

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا (21)

-> See what 33:21 says: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent example, and this is for anyone who: for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day

But they totally missed the following verses that tell us to take far more than the prophet alone as excellent examples:

4: There is for you an excellent example  in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See who else is an excellent example to us: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ There is for you an excellent example  in Abraham and those with him,, Ibrahim and those who are with him, not just Ibrahim but those with him, this is because they refused to be Mushrikoon and worshipping others other than Allah, they thought by worshipping stones, it will get them closer to Allah, for me this is the exact same with those who idol worship Mohammed by even pissing like him, ironically my rejection to those fellow Muslims actions is the exact same rejection of Ibrahim and those with him who refused to worship anyone else but Allah : "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims, i.e. Iím taking Ibrahim and those with him as an excellent example according to hat we were told that he said in the Qiran, see how taking them as an example was stressed again in 60:6 Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised. SAME WORD SAID ABOUT MOHAMMED IN 33:21, i.e. we should take Mohammed and Ibrahim and those with Ibrahim as Iswah hasnah through what we were told about them in the Quran.

For me I take all those prophets and many believers as excellent examples, but only on the things that are qualified and confirmed by the Quran, like Salat for example, however in the way I think, it is going to be myself alone to be taken as an example by myself, I donít need others to think for me and work out things in my religion.

Baal wrote:
4:80 - ďhe who obeys the Messenger [Muhammad], obeys AllahĒ


Iím the one who is obeying Mohammed word for word as stated in the Quran, they are the ones who donít obey Allah word for word as stated in the Quran nor they obey Mohammed sayings as stated in their hadith

Baal wrote:
How are we supposed to follow the model of muhammad from the koran alone?


through Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul, Qul,

exactly as we should take Ibrahim and those with him as great examples  of those who stood against the shirk as stated in 60:4&6

Baal wrote:
Are we supposed to follow his model in talking to gibreel by any chance?


this question is for the idol worshippers not me

Dismissed

Baal wrote:
And other things missing from the koran, like how to pray, how to do the Haj, How to fast Ramadan, some Hudud was specified in koran but it does not cover most situations, how are we to cover them without koran?


holy carp, I just replied to a goon on ffi regarding the same crap, hold on let me copy it in here:


Searcher wrote:
Like how can you know how to pray without the Hadith?


Idiot, you know nothing about this webn site, it seems you only read the first line of their crap regarding their weapons against the Quran only Muslims, the tom and jerry argument, how I pray?

hahahahahahah

look kid, I pary like the prophet prayed, this is because the way he prayed was transmitted via the word of mouth, in fact there is no hadith that teaches us how to pray in full, i learnt how to pray using the word of mouth from my parents and my teachers, never read it in a book, what they have in their hadith books however is confuising bits and pieces of hearsay,and even if I invistigate such hearsay regarding the prayer, I'm happy to accept most of it because most of it do not contradict the Quran, as well the prayer is mentioned hundreds of times in the Quran, i.e. those hadith about salat (prayer) can be confirmed using the Quran, remember what I told ya that i believe in:

I believe in anything that is qualified by the Quran and because the prayer is qualified by the Quran then if the hadith that is talking about it pass the common sense , I will be happy to accept its teaching

now, that does not mean that I accept every hadith about the salat, again if it does not pass the Quran and the common sense then the hadith has no place but the rubbish bin, let me give a confused idiot like ya an example:

the hadith about the Salat being negotiated from 50 salat per day to 5 per day, such hadith is nothing but lies, and it must be dismissed, see how I dismissed it despite it talks about the Salat (prayer), this is because the Quran told us tens of times that Allah does not change His words, as well it told us that Allah does not put a burden on any soul but what it can bear  it, therefore such hadith about the prayer failed in two aspects:

1) It shows that Allah put a burden on the believers while they can't take it, in clear violation to the Quran

2) It shows that Allah changed His words at least 5 times, and again in clear violation to the Quran

therefore such hadith about the prayer has to be dismissed in the rubbish bin

what else from such web site you want me to slam dunk mister confused?

Baal wrote:
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.


Of course for a kafir or an idol worshipper, the above is what they have to say, for me I have to dismiss it though

Baal wrote:
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.


stop talking crap, your statistics are dismissed

Baal wrote:
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

yeh letís play catch 22:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
-> See: وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّه , And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , i.e. all messengers should be obeyed regarding the message they brough in from Allah, not regarding what the people say about them. and in such case we will be obeying the people who spewed lies about them not really obeying the messengers as the Quran told us

Baal wrote:
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.


It seems you donít even understand how obeying another person should work, to be honest no time to waste with your silly rants
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:


"We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone", AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I TELL MY FELLOW Muslims




Of course, you realize that this is just another command for muslims to " HATE forever" - everybody who is not a muslim, submitting to your "god" !

"ENMITY forever" and "rejection" - for all who do not follow the commands of this desert god !

And its exactly THIS what you are telling your brothers in faith [assumptions] !

Applause !

I'm still suprised by the impertinence of muslims to stand up and claim "ours is the god, we have the truth" - all bow down to "our" god !

Boy, am I glad to be a non-believer !


Quote:

It seems you donít even understand how obeying another person should work,



Why "obey" another person ?

This world is not a military camp !

A person can maybe try to CONVINCE me, to go along...

Commands are counterproductive !

.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:

I believe in anything that is qualified by the Quran and because the prayer is qualified by the Quran then if the hadith that is talking about it pass the common sense , I will be happy to accept its teaching

now, that does not mean that I accept every hadith about the salat, again if it does not pass the Quran and the common sense then the hadith has no place but the rubbish bin, let me give a confused idiot like ya an example:

the hadith about the Salat being negotiated from 50 salat per day to 5 per day, such hadith is nothing but lies, and it must be dismissed, see how I dismissed it despite it talks about the Salat (prayer), this is because the Quran told us tens of times that Allah does not change His words, as well it told us that Allah does not put a burden on any soul but what it can bear  it, therefore such hadith about the prayer failed in two aspects:

All you are doing is applying the "Science of the Hadith". You are disseminating which hadith is true according to some rules. You use the example of the prayer but you also know there is Hundreds of issues other then prayer, that still have to be resolved with your "Science of Hadith". What new do you bring to the table? You want a Nobel Price for being a stellar Scientist?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

what else from such web site you want me to slam dunk mister confused?

Show me that web site, it will probably make my job even easier.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.


Of course for a kafir or an idol worshipper, the above is what they have to say, for me I have to dismiss it though

You just applied the Science of the Hadith last paragraph just to find out how you pray.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.


stop talking crap, your statistics are dismissed

My Statistic? Why is it my statistic, it is the statistic of the koran.

Possibly you never sat down and counted, but surely it comes at no surprise to you that almost every time the koran talks about entering hell, it is talking about disbelieving and disobeying. Maybe you thought it was 70% or 80%. Maybe 94% seems too high to you, but surely it is not a surprise to you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

yeh letís play catch 22:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
-> See: وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّه , And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , i.e. all messengers should be obeyed regarding the message they brough in from Allah, not regarding what the people say about them. and in such case we will be obeying the people who spewed lies about them not really obeying the messengers as the Quran told us

Sorry, I have to dismiss it. This is still Muhammad or koran telling us that we have to obey muhammad because he is telling us about a book which is telling us to obey muhammad.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.


It seems you donít even understand how obeying another person should work, to be honest no time to waste with your silly rants

As I said, nice point, claiming that obeying muhammad only applies to obeying the book (or sayings) put forward by muhammad. But the exclusion you make has no basis. It has no basis in the religion and it has a lot less basis in real life.

You still can not pray or do haj or punish most (almost all) crimes or do a lot of other things without consulting the hadith.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:

I believe in anything that is qualified by the Quran and because the prayer is qualified by the Quran then if the hadith that is talking about it pass the common sense , I will be happy to accept its teaching

now, that does not mean that I accept every hadith about the salat, again if it does not pass the Quran and the common sense then the hadith has no place but the rubbish bin, let me give a confused idiot like ya an example:

the hadith about the Salat being negotiated from 50 salat per day to 5 per day, such hadith is nothing but lies, and it must be dismissed, see how I dismissed it despite it talks about the Salat (prayer), this is because the Quran told us tens of times that Allah does not change His words, as well it told us that Allah does not put a burden on any soul but what it can bear †it, therefore such hadith about the prayer failed in two aspects:

All you are doing is applying the "Science of the Hadith". You are disseminating which hadith is true according to some rules. You use the example of the prayer but you also know there is Hundreds of issues other then prayer, that still have to be resolved with your "Science of Hadith". What new do you bring to the table? You want a Nobel Price for being a stellar Scientist?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

what else from such web site you want me to slam dunk mister confused?

Show me that web site, it will probably make my job even easier.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.


Of course for a kafir or an idol worshipper, the above is what they have to say, for me I have to dismiss it though

You just applied the Science of the Hadith last paragraph just to find out how you pray.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.


stop talking crap, your statistics are dismissed

My Statistic? Why is it my statistic, it is the statistic of the koran.

Possibly you never sat down and counted, but surely it comes at no surprise to you that almost every time the koran talks about entering hell, it is talking about disbelieving and disobeying. Maybe you thought it was 70% or 80%. Maybe 94% seems too high to you, but surely it is not a surprise to you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

yeh letís play catch 22:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
-> See: وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّه , And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , i.e. all messengers should be obeyed regarding the message they brough in from Allah, not regarding what the people say about them. and in such case we will be obeying the people who spewed lies about them not really obeying the messengers as the Quran told us

Sorry, I have to dismiss it. This is still Muhammad or koran telling us that we have to obey muhammad because he is telling us about a book which is telling us to obey muhammad.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.


It seems you donít even understand how obeying another person should work, to be honest no time to waste with your silly rants

As I said, nice point, claiming that obeying muhammad only applies to obeying the book (or sayings) put forward by muhammad. But the exclusion you make has no basis. It has no basis in the religion and it has a lot less basis in real life.

You still can not pray or do haj or punish most (almost all) crimes or do a lot of other things without consulting the hadith.


Ignorant baal

there is no such thing called the science of hadith, this is just a plain BS, I don't even care who are the narrators are

what I'm doing is qualifying everything in the religion using the Quran

the rest of your crap of shirk has to be dismissed
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:

I believe in anything that is qualified by the Quran and because the prayer is qualified by the Quran then if the hadith that is talking about it pass the common sense , I will be happy to accept its teaching

now, that does not mean that I accept every hadith about the salat, again if it does not pass the Quran and the common sense then the hadith has no place but the rubbish bin, let me give a confused idiot like ya an example:

the hadith about the Salat being negotiated from 50 salat per day to 5 per day, such hadith is nothing but lies, and it must be dismissed, see how I dismissed it despite it talks about the Salat (prayer), this is because the Quran told us tens of times that Allah does not change His words, as well it told us that Allah does not put a burden on any soul but what it can bear  it, therefore such hadith about the prayer failed in two aspects:

All you are doing is applying the "Science of the Hadith". You are disseminating which hadith is true according to some rules. You use the example of the prayer but you also know there is Hundreds of issues other then prayer, that still have to be resolved with your "Science of Hadith". What new do you bring to the table? You want a Nobel Price for being a stellar Scientist?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

what else from such web site you want me to slam dunk mister confused?

Show me that web site, it will probably make my job even easier.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
On the pragmatic side, The koran is not enough to build a society or even a moral system. The koran is not even enough to be understood on its own.


Of course for a kafir or an idol worshipper, the above is what they have to say, for me I have to dismiss it though

You just applied the Science of the Hadith last paragraph just to find out how you pray.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
94% of the reasons to enter Juhanam is for disbelieving in allah or disobeying Muhammad. 6% of the reasons are for moral failings, like theft or greed or murder.


stop talking crap, your statistics are dismissed

My Statistic? Why is it my statistic, it is the statistic of the koran.

Possibly you never sat down and counted, but surely it comes at no surprise to you that almost every time the koran talks about entering hell, it is talking about disbelieving and disobeying. Maybe you thought it was 70% or 80%. Maybe 94% seems too high to you, but surely it is not a surprise to you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Most of the message of the koran is just telling you to obey muhammad and believe in Allah, or else. That is the core message of the koran. Now you are asking muslims to play Catch-22 with you.

yeh letís play catch 22:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they dealt unjustly with themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Relenting, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
-> See: وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّه , And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission , i.e. all messengers should be obeyed regarding the message they brough in from Allah, not regarding what the people say about them. and in such case we will be obeying the people who spewed lies about them not really obeying the messengers as the Quran told us

Sorry, I have to dismiss it. This is still Muhammad or koran telling us that we have to obey muhammad because he is telling us about a book which is telling us to obey muhammad.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
You want a book whose message is to obey muhamad.
And a Muhammad whose message is to obey the book.
Sorry Ahmed, that is not enough. Not enough to build a religion anyways.


It seems you donít even understand how obeying another person should work, to be honest no time to waste with your silly rants

As I said, nice point, claiming that obeying muhammad only applies to obeying the book (or sayings) put forward by muhammad. But the exclusion you make has no basis. It has no basis in the religion and it has a lot less basis in real life.

You still can not pray or do haj or punish most (almost all) crimes or do a lot of other things without consulting the hadith.


Ignorant baal

there is no such thing called the science of hadith, this is just a plain BS, I don't even care who are the narrators are

what I'm doing is qualifying everything in the religion using the Quran

the rest of your crap of shirk has to be dismissed

I was not asking for your opinion about the 'science of hadith'. I was informing you that YOU did perform the "science of hadith" when you explained to me how you learned about how to pray.

Maybe you give it a different name to avoid going against your personal philosophy. But to me and to 1 billion muslims, you were performing an admirable job applying rules, to determine which hadith to believe and which hadith not to believe.

So Thank you Ahmed for that wonderful tutorial about the 'science of hadith'. I really appreciated it.

Now if you can explain to me, how did you learn about how to fast Ramadan? "Teach me" how you were able to disseminate how to fast from the hadith. I am all ears.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
I was not asking for your opinion about the 'science of hadith'.



LOL, well, if you mention the scinece of hadith then you must be a fool who got fooled so easily, again this is not an opinion about the science of hadith, THIS IS A FUKIN FACT THAT THE SCIENCE OF HADITH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE

Baal wrote:
I was informing you that YOU did perform the "science of hadith" when you explained to me how you learned about how to pray.


BS, I never used such non sense, it seems you misunderstood hat I said about the salat, here it is again, the salat is learnt via the word of mouth, there was never a need for a book to leran it, it is inherited from the prophet days, as well the Quran talked about salat hundreds of times

Baal wrote:
Maybe you give it a different name to avoid going against your personal philosophy.


well, you are nothing but a sihful thinking as most kafors bound to hell

Baal wrote:
But to me and to 1 billion muslims, you were performing an admirable job applying rules, to determine which hadith to believe and which hadith not to believe.


well, what I did, is easy for a child to understand and do, simply, if te hadith contradict the Quran or does not teach us anything regarding the religion then it has to be dismissed in the rubbish bin

Baal wrote:
So Thank you Ahmed for that wonderful tutorial about the 'science of hadith'. I really appreciated it.



please stop acting funny, here is the deal, why don't you explain to me what is the science of hadith?

Baal wrote:
Now if you can explain to me, how did you learn about how to fast Ramadan? "Teach me" how you were able to disseminate how to fast from the hadith. I am all ears.


hmmm, same as salat, it is via the word of mouth the transferred between our parents over the years, there is no need for any books to learn how to pray, fast ot perform hajj, i.e. I never learnt salat, fast of hajj from the current hadith books, how about you show me some hadith that teach us in full the following:

1) how to pray
2) how to fast
3) how to do hajj
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: WHAT THE F***K? Reply with quote

Fathom wrote:
Excuse me? But could you explain something here? Like ...

WHAT THE HELL IS THE MESSAGE OF THE QUR'AN, ANYWAYS?


Once I had accidently run into a Thai student at Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok and I said,"Excuse me." And he replied, :"No." lol.

I see an extremely perturbed and frustrated person in you.

The message of Qur'aan is: There is only One God, the LORD Almighty and the name in Arabic is Allah. Besides Allah, there is no other God or god or any deity. Qur'aan declares Jesus to be a slave of God like other men and decalres him to be an ordinary human like others. It tells people to be the most obedient slaves of God like he prophets. Allah, the God Almighty chose men to be prophets. Having said that, Qur'aan wants people to be righteous and good.

The essence of the message is, "Love and worship only your Lord God Almighty with all your hearts, your minds and your souls." Also, there will be life after death and there will be a Judgement Day and only Allah will judge. In short, Imaan in Allah, the Unseen is the most important point.


Fathom wrote:
Every time I talk to one of you holier-than-thou Muslims each of you makes some totally screwed up explanation of whatever the hell it is you think the Qur'an actually says, and every time it's a bloody different explanation.


I have never claimed to be a very holy Muslim. But it is no shame either, if I am. Pray tell me what the "totally screwed up" explanations were? †Laughing

I just had an exchange on Luke's most famous verse, where Jesus told his followers to buy swords, with some hardcore Christians and they put their spin on it but you can catch Jesus for demanding that swords be bought. The point is that one can explain to make one understand. You will never find Qur'aan telling people to buy swords.


Fathom wrote:
I have studied Islam for years, even as an x- Muslim, and I have yet to meet any Muslim, scholar or otherwise, who can actually agree with anyone else as to what the hell the Qur'an is talking about.


That is why you are an ex-Muslim because neither you fully understood Qur'aan nor did you get it's message. If you had, you would have remained in. In your own words, you have confirmed it yourself. lol! So, when you read something from those who know, you will naturally have negative thoughts, which is quite normal for a person who never could understand the Scripture.

Fathom wrote:
The reason is obvious; the damn book is a mumbo-jumbo pile of garbage that keeps weak-minded people such as yourself enslaved in ignorance. The Quran is totally useless in the modern world as far as promoting world peace, human rights, and proper education. It actually deprives potentially brilliant people from realizing their own potential, and constantly detriments the harmony of the rest of the world.

All we ever see in the news is how Islamic extremists killed another bunch of innocent people, and you sit there and try to tell someone to go figure out the Quran?


This is where, I would have to consider you among the ranks of ignorants or a persons practising †double standards. You believe in mixing Islam and Qur'aan with politics. I do not buy that.

Fathom wrote:
Listen man, why don't you call an interior decorator to come into your life and change the color of the sky in your screwed up world? Look; don't be trying to condemn someone to eternal ignorance by telling them to go figure out the message of the Quran when you yourself don't have a god damn clue what that crazy book is trying to say.

Ok?

Get a grip. It's the 21st century and Muslims are looking like idiotic throw-backs to the 6th century. Stop embarrassing humanity with your pathetically outdated belief system that's not worth the gun powder it would take to blow it to hell.

Get real.


You appear to be a very tired and frustrated person. I pity you. Go, get some rest.

BMZ

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
I was not asking for your opinion about the 'science of hadith'.



LOL, well, if you mention the scinece of hadith then you must be a fool who got fooled so easily, again this is not an opinion about the science of hadith, THIS IS A FUKIN FACT THAT THE SCIENCE OF HADITH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE

Welcome to the club Ahmed. Somehow the total lack of inventions, of innovation, of interesting literally work, or art in the muslim world for the last 14 centuries should have clued me in that islam has nothing to do with Science.

I only call it "Science of Hadith" as a satire. It is the description muslims use to describe the "process" that muslims use, to assuage their cognitive dissonance about the origins of islam.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
I was informing you that YOU did perform the "science of hadith" when you explained to me how you learned about how to pray.


BS, I never used such non sense, it seems you misunderstood hat I said about the salat, here it is again, the salat is learnt via the word of mouth, there was never a need for a book to leran it, it is inherited from the prophet days, as well the Quran talked about salat hundreds of times

That is hadith Ahmed. Just because "you" do not want to commit it to paper, it does not make it any less valid.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Maybe you give it a different name to avoid going against your personal philosophy.


well, you are nothing but a sihful thinking as most kafors bound to hell

Threatening with hell does not work with this one.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
But to me and to 1 billion muslims, you were performing an admirable job applying rules, to determine which hadith to believe and which hadith not to believe.


well, what I did, is easy for a child to understand and do, simply, if te hadith contradict the Quran or does not teach us anything regarding the religion then it has to be dismissed in the rubbish bin

Masha'allah. That *is* the first rule of the "Science of Hadith". I will be happy to inform you that almost ALL Sahih Hadith and Strong Hadith does *FOLLOW* the rule you just wrote.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
So Thank you Ahmed for that wonderful tutorial about the 'science of hadith'. I really appreciated it.


please stop acting funny, here is the deal, why don't you explain to me what is the science of hadith?

You just stated the first (and most important) rule of the Science of Hadith. I did not need to teach it to you.

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Baal wrote:
Now if you can explain to me, how did you learn about how to fast Ramadan? "Teach me" how you were able to disseminate how to fast from the hadith. I am all ears.


hmmm, same as salat, it is via the word of mouth the transferred between our parents over the years, there is no need for any books to learn how to pray, fast ot perform hajj, i.e. I never learnt salat, fast of hajj from the current hadith books, how about you show me some hadith that teach us in full the following:

1) how to pray
2) how to fast
3) how to do hajj

If it is written down after being passed from father to son, then it is a hadith. There is plenty of hadith about how to perform those earthly rituals, specially the last one that will guarantee the Arab opulence at the expense of the umma.

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