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Religious People Wonder!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Religious People Wonder!  Reply with quote

Once upon a time I believed in a kind and good God who created the universe, all beings and humanity included.

I used to believe in a heaven, where all the good people get rewarded and united with their loved ones.
I used to believe that "I" will be here forever!!

I used to think atheists are nothing but harsh people with no hearts and completely indulged in sins and immoral earthly pleasures....Man, was I wrong!

Not to be hard on myself I was only 14 when I had these thoughts, praying 5 times a day and very proud of my new facial hair that I could then grow for the love of our beloved prophet.

Humans for centuries must have wondered where do we go after death? How come we are able to feel our own consciousness and can step outside of ourselves to self-evaluate?

Why do we have that strong passion to advance? Why do we have that curious force that pushes us to find out?

Oh no....No, I can't accept that....I....die, be forgotten and perish forever? What would then happen to my thoughts, my memories, my beautiful face, my EGO?

I must say, I do sympathise with religious people....after all it's a very hard question that no one really knew for certain the answer for!

Our wishes and day-dreaming throughout the ages have led us to where we are at the moment. Top of the food chain, king of the species and conquerors of the universe.

The same wishful thinking led us to believe that we as individuals were brought here for a reason and we are indestructible if we choose to be good, for that we will be here for eternity!

The definition of the purpose of life combined with the one true message and the chosen one has varied based on the geographical location, time, culture and language.

We have lied to ourselves and ended up believing in that beautiful eternal existence...

The ancient Egyptians mummification, vampires, the elixir of life, religions and God are interpretations and reflections of our own obsession with eternal life. We know Count Dracula does not exist, but we still shiver of fear when we see Gary Oldman licking the blood off that shaving razor in "Bram Stoker's Dracula"!

The thing is I am no longer 14 and I know for a fact that there is no hereafter! I am now an atheist, but much to my surprise I am not wicked or evil.

Ever since I have rejected eternal life, I have become a lot more focused on this life. The amount of charity work I am involved in is numerous. I love my family, my neighbours and all humanity regardless of their colour, their faiths and even their point of views.

I know for a fact that a loving and kind God would not torture his own creation, so I have rejected all religions available on the market as I could easily detect that they are all man-made. Each religion incredibly reflects the culture, the geographical location, the language and the time it was created in. God amazingly sounds like one of us, he gets angry, regrets, takes revenge, hates, likes and favours some over others!!!!

I am now convinced that all religions and God were man-made initially to satisfy our thirst for eternal life, then later on were picked up and developed by control freaks as "one ring rules them all" strategy!

I call upon each and everyone of you to break free from those chains of ignorance, fear, hatred and vanity...

Only then we can through "collective awareness" ascend as a race, have fulfilling and happy lives and be able to
pass on that "kind" gene to our offspring for a better future.

And this is how we become immortal, by simply being an animal who is trying to pass on the best genes available
to benefit the next generation.

All_Brains
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Last edited by All_Brains on Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GREAT post, All_Brains, and a veritable call to arms!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
GREAT post, All_Brains, and a veritable call to arms!


Thanks mate!

I have posted this in my bog with a Count Dracula pic!

I must say I had enough of hate and negativity. Life is beautiful and it's wasted on a big lie!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post the link to the blog,
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that your optimism is certainly praise-worthy, but it is really realistic?  No, I don't think so.

Even now, in this post-modern era--the number of atheists tends to stay at around 2-5%.  There is something to be said for the human need to understand their spiritual nature.  I resent that 5% of the population seems to think that the other 95% are idiots.

If you believe that belief in God is what causes hate, division, and destruction then you're entitled to it, but I doubt very much that those people who deeply and thoughtfully pursue a deeper meaning to their existence are the cause for these things.  

I think perhaps that the most obvious thing that I see atheists do repeatedly is contradict themselves with regard to human nature.  On the one hand we are highly evolved animals, yet on the other there is no acknowledgement of our animal natures as it relates to how we interact with each other and the world.  At least there appears to be no recognition that there is such a nature that needs addressing by something other than the purely physical.  

I find that my particular beliefs addresses those things quite rationally and yet challenges us to transcend our animal instincts.

THAT, my friend, is what "religion" (or at least what most call religion) SHOULD be for, and I think there are a fair number of us who daily struggle with that transcendence.   God is there to help us when we fail, and to help us RECOGNIZE when we fail.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They call me Tater Salad wrote:
I find that your optimism is certainly praise-worthy, but it is really realistic?  No, I don't think so.

Even now, in this post-modern era--the number of atheists tends to stay at around 2-5%.  There is something to be said for the human need to understand their spiritual nature.  I resent that 5% of the population seems to think that the other 95% are idiots.


That's simply not true and you know that. There are millions who either left Islam and Christianity and would not report this for very obvious reasons. I believe that ration in civilised countries where have more freedom and access to better education to be around 1 in 4. I also think this ratio will continue to grow.

By the way atheists don't think that religious people are idiots, for the majority for us were once religious. We think that you guys have not crossed the barrier yet.

I actually think that most religions would fade away in 500 years time.

Quote:
If you believe that belief in God is what causes hate, division, and destruction then you're entitled to it, but I doubt very much that those people who deeply and thoughtfully pursue a deeper meaning to their existence are the cause for these things.  


No, I don't believe...I rather think! I no longer believe, remember?

When your God tells to kill the infidels, or will only be salvaged through one belief system and that you've inherited an original sin and have to pay for it, then you have already taken your first steps towards hatred, for when we try to interpret these aspects we would surely differ and when we differ, blood had always been shed!

Quote:
I think perhaps that the most obvious thing that I see atheists do repeatedly is contradict themselves with regard to human nature.  On the one hand we are highly evolved animals, yet on the other there is no acknowledgement of our animal natures as it relates to how we interact with each other and the world.  At least there appears to be no recognition that there is such a nature that needs addressing by something other than the purely physical.  


You can't be further from the truth. It was atheists who classified humans to be part of the animal kingdom and subject to evolution like all other species. It's through science that we have learned the reason our body acts and reacts in certain way and through psychology we have learned to master our behaviour.

I agree with you in your last sentence though, atheists have no interest in addressing something that is a figment of imagination.
Quote:

I find that my particular beliefs addresses those things quite rationally and yet challenges us to transcend our animal instincts.


Your religion is very rational indeed! Please do remind us again why did God kill all certain homo-sexual village along with its children??????

Quote:
THAT, my friend, is what "religion" (or at least what most call religion) SHOULD be for, and I think there are a fair number of us who daily struggle with that transcendence.   God is there to help us when we fail, and to help us RECOGNIZE when we fail.


Religion is made by you and you God is a wish in your head, so that you can feel better about tomorrow. Your God is your opium and your transcendence is nothing but hallucination.

Regards
All_Brains
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www.all-brains.blogspot.com


Last edited by All_Brains on Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
Post the link to the blog,


Look at my signature Baal.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:

That's simply not true and you know that. There are millions who either left Islam and Christianity and would not report this for very obvious reasons. I believe that ration in civilised countries where have more freedom and access to better education to be around 1 in 4. I also think this ratio will continue to grow.


But I think that these ideas aren't a reflection of reality.

Quote:
The idea that secularization is the irreversible wave of the future is still the conventional wisdom in intellectual circles here. They would be bemused, to say the least, at a Dutch relapse into religiosity. But as the authors of a recently published study called De Toekomst van God (The Future of God) point out, organized prayer in the workplace is just one among several pieces of evidence suggesting that Holland is on the threshold of a new era--one we might call the age of "post-secularization." In their book, Adjiedj Bakas, a professional trend-watcher, and Minne Buwalda, a journalist, argue that Holland is experiencing a fundamental shift in religious orientation: "Throughout Western Europe, and also in Holland, liberal Protestantism is in its death throes. It will be replaced by a new orthodoxy."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Con...Articles/000/000/013/110vxfxj.asp


Quote:
The current global resurgence of religion is more wide ranging than a clash of civilizations driven by religious extremism, terrorism, or fundamentalism. This global cultural and religious shift is challenging our interpretation of the modern world--what it means to be modern--as a variety of social and religious groups struggle to find alternative paths to modernity. This book examines what this means for the key concepts and theories of international relations--international conflict and cooperation, diplomacy, the promotion of civil society, democracy, nation-building, and economic development-and how it is transforming them. The book serves as a guide for what it means to take cultural and religious pluralism seriously in the twenty-first century.

http://www.palgrave-usa.com/catalog/product.aspx?isbn=1403961573


Quote:
In recent years and decades, a widespread assumption that the world is experiencing a global rise of religion has persisted. Yet, the hypothesis of a "global resurgence of religion" has not been tested by means of empirical evidence. This study uses statistical time series and crosscountry data to test the hypothesis of "a global religious resurgence," and to assess its scope.

The study concludes that there is ample evidence that the argument of a "global resurgence of religion" can largely be sustained, with the notable exception to this trend being the postindustrial countries—where the trend towards secularization itself, however, is far from consistent.

http://www.wcfia.harvard.edu/node/681



All_Brains wrote:
By the way atheists don't think that religious people are idiots, for the majority for us were once religious. We think that you guys have not crossed the barrier yet.


I know you don't mean it to sound that way, but you sound like a proselytizer. "You just haven't found God yet."  Wink

All_Brains wrote:
I actually think that most religions would fade away in 500 years time.


Neither you nor I will be here to say whether you were right or not.  I don't happen to agree with you.


All_Brains wrote:

No, I don't believe...I rather think! I no longer believe, remember?


I believe/think that's a semantic argument.  My point is that human nature is basically destructive (except when regarding "its own"), which creates division and fear--thereby, hatred and violence.  I think that people can use any ideology to justify their own inner human nature.

All_Brains wrote:
When your God tells to kill the infidels, or will only be salvaged through one belief system and that you've inherited an original sin and have to pay for it, then you have already taken your first steps towards hatred, for when we try to interpret these aspects we would surely differ and when we differ, blood had always been shed!


See my previous answer.  You can insert any ideology into your sentence above and it will be true.  BTW, the God I believe in tells me to love those who hate me.   I find that very difficult to do.  I'm sure that if I didn't have that commandment to remind me, I'd have far more troubles in life, not to mention probably more dissatisfaction and bitterness.


All_Brains wrote:
You can't be further from the truth. It was atheists who classified humans to be part of the animal kingdom and subject to evolution like all other species. It's through science that we have learned the reason our body acts and reacts in certain way and through psychology we have learned to master our behaviour.


But have we??  I hardly think so.  In fact, I don't see much change at all between the general behavior of mankind and those of prehistoric man.  We just have more advanced weapons.



All_Brains wrote:
I agree with you in your last sentence though, atheists have no interest in addressing something that is a figment of imagination.


That's a completely unprovable assumption.  Much like that of God existing or not.  You're welcome to your thoughts, though.



All_Brains wrote:
Your religion is very rational indeed! Please do remind us again why did God kill all certain homo-sexual village along with its children??????


I don't believe it was the homosexuality--although that was mentioned.  Some believe that it was lack of hospitality in a desert region where hospitality could mean the difference between life and death.  Regardless, it was God who destroyed it, not man.  Even then, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah could have been a cautionary tale based on two cities that were found abandoned and burned.  Natural disaster?  Also a possiblity.  


All_Brains wrote:
Religion is made by you and you God is a wish in your head, so that you can feel better about tomorrow. Your God is your opium and your transcendence is nothing but hallucination.


Religion itself isn't a reflection of God, it's a reflection of man.  I use the word "religion" here in the sense that you understand it but religiousity, or "churchianity", is man-made--I don't doubt it.    I know you probably think that a belief in a particular God means that one ascribes to its corresponding religion, but nothing could be further from the truth based on my personal understanding of religion vs God.  

I certainly don't feel or act as though I'm under the influence of any opiate--I'm just like you.  Bad days and good days.  Nor have I ever suffered from hallucinations or ever been swept up in a fit of religious euphoria or ecstasy.  I'm a normal person who's had experiences and been involved in too many coincidences to make me think that there's just a body here and all that we posess is the physical manifestation of our evolution.  Sorry.  You might have had different experiences--that's what gives us all different perspectives.  However, I won't call you delusional or psychotic simply because I don't agree with what you say.


All_Brains wrote:
Regards
All_Brains


And to you as well.  Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They call me Tater Salad wrote:

I don't believe it was the homosexuality--although that was mentioned.  Some believe that it was lack of hospitality in a desert region where hospitality could mean the difference between life and death.  Regardless, it was God who destroyed it, not man.  Even then, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah could have been a cautionary tale based on two cities that were found abandoned and burned.  Natural disaster?  Also a possiblity.


I will leave all the points you have expressed your opinion on and focus on the above very point, as it is a symbol of what my dilemma was religion is all about.

It's very clear in the bible and the Quran what God did to this village and why.

So, you are now defending God for killing innocent people just because they were not hospitable? Are you kidding me?

And you suddenly said that God was who destroyed and killed the people, not man!!! That's exactly the point!!!

How can your God tell to love those who hate you and HE himself is incapable of the same?????

Could have been a cautionary tale or a natural disaster???? How can you say that you're of the bible then???

How about the whole thing is a mere folklore???
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
They call me Tater Salad wrote:

I don't believe it was the homosexuality--although that was mentioned.  Some believe that it was lack of hospitality in a desert region where hospitality could mean the difference between life and death.  Regardless, it was God who destroyed it, not man.  Even then, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah could have been a cautionary tale based on two cities that were found abandoned and burned.  Natural disaster?  Also a possiblity.


I will leave all the points you have expressed your opinion on and focus on the above very point, as it is a symbol of what my dilemma was religion is all about.

It's very clear in the bible and the Quran what God did to this village and why.

So, you are now defending God for killing innocent people just because they were not hospitable? Are you kidding me?

And you suddenly said that God was who destroyed and killed the people, not man!!! That's exactly the point!!!

How can your God tell to love those who hate you and HE himself is incapable of the same?????

Could have been a cautionary tale or a natural disaster???? How can you say that you're of the bible then???

How about the whole thing is a mere folklore???


I guess I really don't think I need to defend God.  See, you and I have diametrically opposing viewpoints--since I believe that there is objective truth and that God holds the power to give and take life, it is God's choice to do what He will.  If God is perfect, then His truth is also perfect.

Now, before you go off on a rant about religious people not thinking and just doing what God says to do just because He says it (that is common in religions like Islam), if perhaps you could see the type of society that drew God's attention then it might make sense.  According to the Bible, it wasn't simply people being homosexual.  It was a complete sense of selfishness and lack of empathy and lack of respect towards themselves and others that caused God to destroy the villages.   A complete disregard for the values that keep a society civil.

Now, even if I don't believe that God sent fire and brimstone to destroy the cities, the implication of how important it is to live a life in service to others or at least with a healthy respect for more than one's self is pretty evident in this story.  It is a repeated theme throughout the OT that tells the story of what happens to societies when they begin to disregard the values of community and respect for others.  According to religious texts, God destroys them.  From a secular viewpoint, those societies simply fall apart and into oblivion.

Even if you believe that the Bible is full of mythologies, there can be good lessons learned from the theme of these stories.  Taking God and making Him live up to what you expect Him to be isn't and shouldn't be the goal--taking the story for what it can teach you (not about God but about ourselves) should be, IMO.  And I think that's what the story is meant to convey.  Not the nature of God, but the nature of man when he begins to believe that HE is the most important thing to consider.

I don't believe that this story or others like it are meant to show how God hates as much as they are meant to show us the consequences of our behaviors.  That God is the "agent" of this consequence only means something to those who believe that He CAN and HAS intervened in human affairs at certain times.  That part only comes with faith.  The rest can be taken as a part of (or a story about) the history of civilization, I guess.


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Last edited by They call me Tater Salad on Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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