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the splitting of the moon
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.


There is no Science in either Hadith or Qur'aan, ibnishaq.  Let me drill in this way:

Prophet recited Qur'aan and taught what it meant. Explained it. When prophet passed away, he did not leave any Hadith Book behind himself. Worse had happened when poor Jesus passed away without leaving anything like Qur'aan.

Dozens of people chimed in and wrote the Christian scripture, which you can call Christian Ahaadith.

Whether saheeh or da'eef or mutawatir, etc., Bukhari, Muslim, etc., are NOT the Holy Scripture. You can read and chuck them away. You can discard a hadith if it looks silly and incorrect. God is not going to punish you or me or Ahmed for doing that. There was no need to collect ahahdith and it should have remained oral tradition. What good Bukhari and others have done?

But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

What Science do you see in studying Ahaadith?

BMZ




But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.
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Baal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
bmz you do not understand the sciences of the hadiths obviously. if you did you would know that the hadiths on the moon splitting were mutwatar hadiths and were narrated by 23 different narrators all with a sahih or hassan chain of transmission according to sheikh al albani. not only the hadiths but there are dozens of other works that mention it.


There is no Science in either Hadith or Qur'aan, ibnishaq.  Let me drill in this way:

Prophet recited Qur'aan and taught what it meant. Explained it. When prophet passed away, he did not leave any Hadith Book behind himself. Worse had happened when poor Jesus passed away without leaving anything like Qur'aan.

Dozens of people chimed in and wrote the Christian scripture, which you can call Christian Ahaadith.

Whether saheeh or da'eef or mutawatir, etc., Bukhari, Muslim, etc., are NOT the Holy Scripture. You can read and chuck them away. You can discard a hadith if it looks silly and incorrect. God is not going to punish you or me or Ahmed for doing that. There was no need to collect ahahdith and it should have remained oral tradition. What good Bukhari and others have done?

But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

What Science do you see in studying Ahaadith?

BMZ




But you cannot do that with Qur'aan.

The Second you start to determine which hadith is correct or not, which criterias are more valid then others. This is Science of Hadith BMZ. Even Kuffars who do not give a rat's ass about either, practice it.

Because that is what Kuffar do, they practice Science, they will study hadith, they will study serial killers like bundy and gacy, they will study maggots that eat dead flesh. It is all Science. I can not say studying maggots is not Science because I find them icky! or I will not study serial killers because i find them despicable.

As for muslims practicing the Science of the Hadith, you are only trying to deprive them of one of their very few streams of Sciences.
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ronyvo



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
ibnishaq wrote:
all brains - hi! i agree if it happened it would be shown to all. but it is a miracle.. so it was only shown to the people of mecca who asked muhammad and not from the whole world!


Sure! You could then argue the whole thing was made up since it could not be verified through "unbiased" sources.

Also, I find it very strange that Allah claims that Islam is for all humanity, yet chooses to show his signs to "biased" few??

I read some of the posts in this thread. I don't care either for the hadiths, becasue they are FULL of nonesense and PROVEN flaws. Besides, many Muslims do not believe in hadiths.
That is why I, myself, do not occupy myself much with hadiths.

But, what about the Koran, which all Muslims believe in?

The contradictions are so numerous and humilating to the open minded Muslim.

However, I wouldn't have bothered discussing Islam, the Koran, if Mohammad had NOT instructed his followers to KILL any of those who do not join, he called them infidels.
This is barbaric which fits the stone age (maybe), but now in the 21st century???

Islam exposed Islam, What I mean that before 9/11 the West did not know anything about Islam. It was contained in the ME, where the HORRIBLE islamic atrocities were in continuance action for over 1400 years until this day.
The West, actually the world starts to know about the extreme violence in Islam.
Even, a huge number of Muslims have the chance now to discuss and argue aboout their faith, a right they are denied.

The internet is a huge powerful tool to get people of all kind of back ground to really know the truth about Islam.
One does not have to go far. It is easy to refute Islam from the Koran. The Islamists are dealing now with the free world. They cannot shutt up the opposition,  as it was and is happening in the ME.

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