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The killing in the OT
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: The killing in the OT  Reply with quote

The killings in the OT:

Quoting from the King James Version of the Bible, Jehovah required the state to execute a person:

for following another religion: Exodus 22:20 states: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. See also and Numbers 25:1-15.

for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51 states (in part): ...when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death. See also Numbers 3:10, 18:7 and 17:13.

for proselytizing: Deuteronomy 13:1-10 states that a person who tries to convince an Israelite to convert to another religion must be killed.

for communicating with the dead: Leviticus 20:27 calls for the execution by stoning of all mediums and spiritists (aka spiritualists), both male and female.

for black magic: Exodus 22:18 states: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. This is a mistranslation. The passage has nothing to do with Wicca or other forms of Neo-paganism, which are the only types of Witchcraft that are practiced today in North America in significant numbers . The original Hebrew word is translated "sorceress" in most other versions of the Bible. A more accurate phrase would be "women who engage in black magic, harming others by the use of spoken curses." Men are left off the hook.

Other passages required people to be stoned to death or even burned alive for sexual activities:

for adultery: Leviticus 20:10 states: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 22:22

for incest: Leviticus 20:11 states: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death... See also Leviticus 20, verses 12 and 14. Verse 17 prescribe excommunication for incest with one's sister or step-sister.

for temple prostitution: Leviticus 20:13 states: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.... This verse is often incorrectly interpreted to refer generally to homosexual behavior. See also Deuteronomy 22:24. Both verses, in the original Hebrew, refer to homosexual prostitution in Pagan temples, which was a common religious practice in the tribes surrounding the Israelites.

for bestiality: Leviticus 20:15 states: And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast.... See also Exodus 22:19.

for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21 concludes: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die...".. Note that this applied only to women who had been presented as virgin brides and could be proven to have engaged in intercourse before being engaged or married. There appears to have been no penalty for men who engaged in pre-marital sexual activity.

for sexual activity with both a woman and her mother: Deuteronomy 20:14 requires that all three be burned alive.

for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24 states: If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die. Note that this applied only to engaged women. Her fiancé could (in some cases) have sexual access to her, but no other man was permitted to engage in such activity as soon as she became engaged. There appears to have been no penalty for engaged men who seduced women.

for rape of an engaged woman: Deuteronomy 22:25 states: But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. A man who raped a single woman who was not engaged would only have to marry her and give 50 shekels of silver to her father.

for prostitution Leviticus 21:9 states: And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Executing someone by burning them alive appears to be reserved for a narrow range of criminal acts.

Some grounds for the death penalty involved activities that were not related to other religions or to sexual activities:

(sometimes) for committing murder: Levitucus 24:17 requires that "he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 24:21 repeats this requirement. See also Numbers 35:16 and Deuteronomy 17:6. The Hebrew word "ratsach" in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and the Greek word "phoneuo" in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) are generally mistranslated into the English word "kill." They actually mean "to murder with premeditation."

However, Exodus 21:20, states that if a slave-owner kills his male or female slave, he shall be merely "punished." The nature of the punishment is not specified. The murderer would presumably not receive the death penalty; if he were to be killed, then one would expect the text to say this directly. However, if the injured slave lives for a while after the beating before dying of the abuse, the owner is not punished at all.  

for kidnapping: Exodus 21:16 states: And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. This involves kidnapping for the purpose of selling him into slavery. See also Deuteronomy 24:7.

for human sacrifice: Leviticus 20:2-5 states: Whosoever.... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death. To "give ones seed to Molech" means to ritually sacrifice one's child to a Pagan God.

for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17 states: And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. See also Leviticus 20:9. The exact meaning of the key Hebrew word is ambiguous; it might mean, in English, to curse or blaspheme, or to degrade or shame.

for abusing one's parents: Exodus 21:15 states: And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.  
for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29 states: But if the ox .....hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death. If an animal has the habit of injuring others, and the owner does not kill it, then the both the owner and the ox may be put to death.

for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21 states: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother.....all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die..... Because of the ambiguities in some of the words used in the original text, the death penalty might not have been required in this case.

for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16 states: And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death. Blasphemy was defined as uttering the name of Jehovah while cursing.
for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2 states: ...but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Numbers 15:32-36 described a man who was executed because he gathered wood on Saturday.

for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge: Deuteronomy 17:12 states: And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die....  

for perjury: Deuteronomy 19:15-21 states in part (with reference to a murder trial) ....if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother.... That is, a perjurer would himself be killed.

for accidentally killing a pregnant woman: Exodus 21:22-23 states: "If men strive [i.e. fight], and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." If two men are fighting and accidentally hurt a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage, then:  if the woman fully recovers, then the man responsible will have to pay a fine to the woman's husband.
if the woman dies, then the man would be killed also.
if some other harm comes to the woman, (e.g. loss of an eye or tooth) then that would be inflicted upon the man as well.

Some Bible translations, supported by conservative Christian denominations, translate miscarriage as "premature birth." And they interpret verse 23 to include death of the newborn. However, this translation is rare.

Still more grounds for killing:

A male who was not circumcised: Genesis 17:14
Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread: Exodus 12:15

Manufacturing anointing oil: Exodus 30:33

Engaging in ritual animal sacrifices other than at the temple: Leviticus 17:1-9

Consuming blood: Leviticus 17:10. This would include eating raw meat.
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Eating peace offerings while ritually unclean: Leviticus 7:20

Waiting too long before consuming sacrifices: Leviticus 19:5-8

Sexual activity with a woman who is menstruating: Leviticus 20:18

Going to the temple in an unclean state: Numbers 19:13

Persons teaching another religion: Deuteronomy 13:1-11

A prophet whose prophecy does not come true: Deuteronomy 18:22

Gluttony and excessive drinking: Deuteronomy 21:20

Activities for which God Imposed the Death Penalty Directly, God killed individuals because they engaged in various transgressions:

for wickedness: In Genesis 6, God was disappointed at the wickedness and evil acts of humanity. He sent the flood in Genesis 7:6 which killed every man, woman, child, infant, new-born and animal, except for those who were in Noah's ark. This is as close as humanity has come to a complete genocide. The exact nature of the wickedness is not defined. God also killed Er in Genesis 38:8 for some unknown form of wickedness.

for being abusive to strangers: In Genesis 18:20, God had heard that the people of Sodom were wicked and evil. He sent some angels there, who confirmed the stories. In Genesis 19:24, God demolished Sodom and all of its men, women, children, infants, new-born, plants and animals, except for Lot's family. The crime of the people of Sodom has been interpreted by some to be homosexual rape, and by others to be any form of homosexual behavior. But it was clearly lack of hospitality to strangers, as seen in Jesus' comments in Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7. This is confirmed in Ezekeiel 16:48-50.

for practicing birth control: Onan was required by Jewish law and tradition to marry his brother's widow and have a male child who would be considered the brother's heir. This is called levirate marriage. He didn't want to do this, and so practiced an elementary form of birth control (coitus interruptus). God killed him. This was first interpreted by the Church as punishment for a sexual sin: avoiding pregnancy through the use of a birth control technique. Later, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, the Church said it was masturbation. "Onanism" became a synonym for auto-eroticism. Recent Biblical scholars interpret his crime as refusal to follow Jewish custom and provide an heir.
--------------------------------

Holy crap man, the above stupid OT laws should leave no jew or christian alive
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got that from beliefnet, i use this article against christians all the time!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same story here...

You try to support your unsupportable case of "islam" by clinging to the last straw - pointing to inconsistencies of other religions...

Well, so WHAT ?

Does that make your religion "better" ?


Like in this other thread - where is your PROOF ?

Non-existent - zero, nada, zilch, niente...

You merely prove ONE point, your religion is just as flawed as all others !

.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
Same story here...

You try to support your unsupportable case of "islam" by clinging to the last straw - pointing to inconsistencies of other religions...

Well, so WHAT ?

Does that make your religion "better" ?


Like in this other thread - where is your PROOF ?

Non-existent - zero, nada, zilch, niente...

You merely prove ONE point, your religion is just as flawed as all others !

.


dumb bum

I have every fukin right to critcise other religions as the freaks fave themselves such right to crticise my religion, why don't you piss off with your always crap?
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
got that from beliefnet, i use this article against christians all the time!



I'm not using it against them, I'm only showing them what their books say as they fukin show us what my book say
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadak Allah Al Azeem
"allah the Great has Truthed"
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
Same story here...

You try to support your unsupportable case of "islam" by clinging to the last straw - pointing to inconsistencies of other religions...

Well, so WHAT ?

Does that make your religion "better" ?


Like in this other thread - where is your PROOF ?

Non-existent - zero, nada, zilch, niente...

You merely prove ONE point, your religion is just as flawed as all others !

.


dumb bum

I have every fukin right to critcise other religions as the freaks fave themselves such right to crticise my religion, why don't you piss off with your always crap?



I don't deny you the right to criticize any other religion, just like islam is getting sliced up into thin layers, until nothing remains to be kept...

I criticize x-tians too, when its needed, like with the arse-bishop of cunterbury...

The point you are hovering above is, - you think you could "elevate" your own religion, by pointing to flaws in others...

Two wrongs do not make one right !

Wiggle on...

.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat’s religion doesn’t seem to provide him with much peace, does it???
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: The Barbaric Roots of Christianity Reply with quote

I don't think Ahmed is trying to show that Christianity is bad.

Most of us know each other and understand the problem but such postings are positive in the sense that any new pot coming here will think and reflect before writing.

Such posts should be taken as healthy reminders for the new arrivals.

Only those Christians will feel guilty and bad, who believe that Jesus was Yaweh, the God who had met Moses earlier, was there before Abraham was and was so barbaric. And they begin to wonder whether it was that remorse which led Jesus to commit suicidal acts.

BMZ

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
AhmedBahgat’s religion doesn’t seem to provide him with much peace, does it???


Pazuzu, phuddu! Where have you been?  Wink

BMZ



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