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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:

If they are not baised and arrogant ot the message and submit to the one and only God, I'm sure He will make it obvious to them


cosmicdancer wrote:

But I thought you just said that if they don't believe it is not obvious to them - so I don't understand what you are saying here?


yep, you won't understand in an hour or two, you need some bloody years to do so, in in all those years, you should have no bloody doubt and histation to continue your belief

for you however you want to find holes in it to justify your unbelief, and I can assure you it won't work with any one acting like you

cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you mean they must believe first?


of course they must believe first, then the life time struggle of submission

cosmicdancer wrote:

Or simply show sincerity or honesty etc...?


to believe means that you are sincere and honest to the conceot of God, but to read the Quran trying to pick holes and gaps in it then that can't be described as being honest and sincere, you can only try to find gaps and holes if you are not a believer and that is what you are

cosmicdancer wrote:

What if they still don't believe - despite their sincerity and honesty...?


well, no one can say if they are sincere regarding the God, not even yourself can claim as such about yourself, IT IS GOING TO BE ONLY ALLAH WHO WILL KNOW THAT

possibly the people may be folling themselves that they are honest and sincere

cosmicdancer wrote:

Also how come there are Muslims themselves who are very sincere and honest - but don't find the Qur'an 'obvious' and lose their faith in it?


I have to dismiss the above because no one can know who is sincere, you can only assume as such about others

cosmicdancer wrote:

Did God not make it obvious to them?


Of course

cosmicdancer wrote:

Why?


Because their approaching attitude


cosmicdancer wrote:

Why doesn't God make it obvious to everyone?


Because it is not a free ride


cosmicdancer wrote:

Are all those who don't find the Qur'an obvious, insincere, dishonest, deceitful and arrogant?


Allah is the only one to know, but I can assume that they are at least one of those descriptions

cosmicdancer wrote:

Are all those who see it as obvious, sincere, honest, truthful and humble?


same as before, we just don't know nor even we can know that they are true believers, only Allah knos that

cosmicdancer wrote:

Do you regard yourself as humble or arrogant?


I regard myself as both,

Humble to Allah and arrogant against those who dispute His signs
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cosmicdancer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Many reasons - and I am not saying this verse is the only or even the main reason why men hit their wives. But it certainly doesn't help the situation.
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
As usual Ahmed, you try to fill one hole by digging another hole.


Statements like that has no place but the rubbish bin

It's the typical Kafir tactics, and is not going to work with me pal


Quote:
simple the wife was insisting on her conduct, the husband tried to advice her polietly, she insisted on her ill conduct the husband left the bed, yet she insisted on her ill conduct, the hudband had enough and beat her with firm threat that this is the last time and she will be thrown in the streets and not see her children again, the wife fixed her ill conduct, and the marriage survived

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Quote:

Yes, she will be thrown on the streets because the alimony is for the period of Iddat or 1 year if the country is not following the Sharia closely.


holy crap, the above coonfusion is dismissed

Quote:

Also she won't see her children because of the Sharia.


I donlt give a fuk about your sharia, an ill conduct mother who insists on her conduct should have no conatct with her children, they even prevented Britney from seeing her children until she fixes her ill conduct

Quote:

Thank you Ahmed for clarifying, I hope women are reading what Ahmed wrote. And know that Ahmed is one of the most honest muslims I have met and talked to. of course he is not 100% honest but he is the most honest I have met.


The typical kafir tactics,, look pal  I have to dismiss the rest of your crap, this is because no human can know who is hnonest and to what level and who is not

Quote:

You turn 40 or 50 or 60 in a country that does not favor your education or your career. And if your husband wills, you will be out in the street and receive an alimony for 1 year. Unless your husband is a decent human being and decide to pay you more of course. But that will be more like charity and the amount will be up to his judgement.

Frankly, he does not even 'need' to throw you out on the street. He only needs to threaten you he will. As long as you are home cleaning the house and making his tea. And if he makes some more money, as long as you accept a Second wife.


Of course when he remarries, the new wife will not at all, appreciate too much money being spent on you, the old wife.


dismissed
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:

now tell me pal, what motivate the non Muslim woman and men to bash their partners?


Many reasons - and I am not saying this verse is the only or even the main reason why men hit their wives. But it certainly doesn't help the situation.



Excuse me sir


if the problem exists without this verse then sorry you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God

see, you will never believe with such attitude, TRUST ME
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the kafirs on this thread are missing a very important point

the verse is directed at those pious husbands,

now if non pious husbands manipulate the verse to abuse their non ill conduct wives then the same verse will be uses against them (the husbands) when the account for every action is given by us

now the Quran is a test for those who claim to be believers as well for those unbelievers

ironically, we see both of them, some those who claim to be believers and some of those who claim to be unbelievers, are manipulating the Quran verses to suit their own low desires

both won't be able to escape the account day
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile


That is right, you are defending the man made god you made to yourself who suppose to created us then hidden himlse ffrom us and never worried about us again, yep the free ride you are after

i had enough of this dicussion mate, let's move on to the next thing that made you leave Islam,

so far:

1) Hell
2) Hitting the ill conduct wives


what else mate?, or the abve was enough to leave the belief in Allah?

cheers
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
cosmicdancer wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
you are nothing but an arrogant kafir who wants to only fault the God


No.

I find fault with the Qur'an.

I don't believe it is from God - remember?

In fact I believe I am defending God from words falsey attributed to him.

Smile


That is right, you are defending the man made god you made to yourself who suppose to created us then hidden himlse ffrom us and never worried about us again, yep the free ride you are after

i had enough of this dicussion mate, let's move on to the next thing that made you leave Islam,

so far:

1) Hell
2) Hitting the ill conduct wives


what else mate?, or the abve was enough to leave the belief in Allah?

cheers


lol... ok Ahmad, perhaps I'll make another video soon and we can chat some more.

Take care Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahmed

Your Nisaa surah is perfect for middle east/3rd world type of culture, where the man is clearly dominant and decides the Nushooz of his woman.

You live in Australia, a country where hitting your own wife is a punishable crime. The entire western world realised through psychology the severe consequence of physical punishment.

You're an Arab Egyptian through and through, you probably were hit by your parents and school teachers growing up in Egypt, hitting has become normal and accepted to you!! What would happen if a Muslim husband hits his wife here in Australia because she simply left home to visit a friend without permission??? What would happen if your kid gets hit at school by a teacher in Aussie??

You know very well the answers to the above!

Now, another thing that skipped you! Women do not need to be saved by men! Women in the western world including the country you live in, have careers, jobs, own money, own opinion, circle of friends and own activities and hobbies.

Hitting does not save marriages and correct ill-conducts, it actually does the following:

1. If you're in a Muslim/3rd world country, hitting your wife and children is quite accepted as a method of discipline.

It also keep marriages together using fear, women usually cease the love their husbands and their lives and just live like zombies waiting for the next beating...How pathetic and sad!

2. If you are in a country like Australia, man and woman are life and journey partners, they share all life's decisions and use dialogue to fix differences in opinion. They stay together because they want to and love each other, NOT because the woman is afraid of her man!!!

Your God who keeps human on the right path by mainly showing the teeth of his hell, follows the very same logic of keeping women in line...by giving men the authority to judge their ill-conduct and physically punish them!!

I will have to give you one thing, your God is very consistent!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear A_B

This article is supporting what you said above !

Its about Australia !



Quote:


Muslims speak up about domestic violence
(DPA)

21 February 2008


SYDNEY - Women and children are beaten by their menfolk in homes across Australia. Mostly the spur to domestic violence is alcohol but sometimes cultural mores are at work that allow men to excuse their behaviour.


“They view wives and daughters as an extension of their honour and when they deviate from what they would view as accepted ... they see it as an undermining of their own status,” said Sydney psychiatrist Tanveer Ahmed.

He was talking about violence in Muslim homes and commenting specifically on a call from the Muslim Women’s National Network Australia (MWNNA) to tackle those in the community who use religion to justify domestic violence.

“It’s a real problem,” MWNNA president Aziza Abdel-Halim told The Sydney Morning Herald. “There’s wife beating, there’s children beating. Some of them go to the extent of forbidding the woman to leave the home.”

Ahmed said Muslim victims of domestic violence were reluctant to go to the police. If they went to the imam of their mosque, he was likely to side with the perpetrator.

“Very rarely would you get the imam trying to punish the man,” he said. “They’ll see it more as, if not culturally appropriate, then culturally understandable.”





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