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HomoErectus
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Dear Susan

No need to break it to them...

Do it slooowly, and bit by bit, so they sort of "smell" it coming, smoothly !

Like now and then droippiong a line or two, doubting one or the other surah, or hadith...

And by this way, you can also plant the seed of doubt into them !

Maybe they leave too, one day...

.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Ex-Muslim Reply with quote

Rational1 wrote:
Hi all,

Thanks for the welcome, sorry I'm so late in replying.

All_Brains wrote:

I am very interested in knowing why did you enter Islam in the first place?


I learned about Islam from a friend, before Sept. 11. I was at university at the time. The first thing that piqued my interest were the rights for women. I thought they were impressive coming from an organized religion, and since it was before Sept. 11 there was no negative media to make me believe otherwise. Once I started studying Islam and learned the concept of monotheism (which matched exactly what I already believed after leaving my previous religion about a year earlier), I was hooked. I met a couple other converts who reinforced the good feelings I had about Islam, and I started to see things their way more and more. I'm still close friends with two of them, and they were the ones that convinced me to move to the Middle East with them. We are all working together now. For them, being here has only strengthened their faith. It did the opposite for me.


Hello Susan

I am very interested in the women rights that you have been told!!!

Also, I am not a big fan of hiding one's beliefs, specially in your position being not born as a Muslim. If your friends also American may be you should share your findings/doubts with them, unless of course it's unsafe for you, then I completely understand.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Ex-Muslim Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:

I am very interested in the women rights that you have been told!!!

lol... the most popular question. I thought the women's rights Muslims claim to have were well known. I already discussed this topic with Baal on this forum http://councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=1491.0 and I don't really feel like starting it again. But I'll quote myself from that thread about what I think is a crucial point in understanding why I was attracted by the so-called women's rights:
Quote:

Whether or not the rights given to women in Qur'an and Hadith are actual "rights" or not, and whether they existed before Islam or not, and whether they are actually practiced or not is entirely irrelevant. You and I, being outside Islam, can see the errors clearly. A Muslim, however, has only his faith to tell him that Islam is perfect, and he will find a way to believe it no matter what contrary evidence there may be.


And remember, I converted before all the negative media that came out as a result of Sept. 11. I had no reason not to believe what they were telling me.

All_Brains wrote:

Also, I am not a big fan of hiding one's beliefs, specially in your position being not born as a Muslim. If your friends also American may be you should share your findings/doubts with them, unless of course it's unsafe for you, then I completely understand.

I don't think it's unsafe, but I'd much rather avoid the controversy that would undoubtedly arise over the news of my apostasy. Maybe you don't know many converts, but sharing my "findings/doubts" with them is not exactly a simple task. Being American doesn't mean they have a more open mind about that stuff. In fact, being American converts means exactly the opposite.

I have thought about doing as HE suggested, dropping a line or two here and there. But it would not be to give them doubts, it would just be to make the news not so shocking. I don't have any desire to try to convince my friends to leave Islam. They are all very happy as Muslims, and why should I take that away from them? They do not have such easy situations as I do, and leaving Islam would cause a lot of problems for them. If they were unhappy, I might try. But they aren't. Of course, if they become interested in my reasons for leaving, I will obviously do my best to show them.

In any case, whatever I decide to do, it will not happen until I'm back in the states. So I still have time to think about it Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: Ex-Muslim Reply with quote

Rational1 wrote:

And remember, I converted before all the negative media that came out as a result of Sept. 11. I had no reason not to believe what they were telling me.

I guess you will see it when you come back. The media is not negative against islam, if anything it is friendlier to islam then pre-9/11.

If it was not for Denmark, there would have been almost nothing negative in mainstream media. However on the net it is much easier to find negative things about the sources of islam.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
Hello Rational,

I think I am holding another conversation with you on the other forum Smile

This forum is more for discussing the sources of islam. Books. Hadith. Sunna and other goodies as we well as the texts from other religions.

The other site is for discussing the cultural issues of the divine comedies.


Bold emphasis, within your quote, has been done by me, Baal.

Are you sure you are really holding rational converstaions with Rational.  Very Happy  I mean, I hope.

BMZ

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Hello Rational,

I think I am holding another conversation with you on the other forum Smile

This forum is more for discussing the sources of islam. Books. Hadith. Sunna and other goodies as we well as the texts from other religions.

The other site is for discussing the cultural issues of the divine comedies.


Bold emphasis, within your quote, has been done by me, Baal.

Are you sure you are really holding rational converstaions with Rational.  Very Happy  I mean, I hope.

BMZ

Yes I asked her to tell me what were the rights she was told and then asked her to tell me what rights had she been shown in the koran. Something that you and your friends in the anti-FFI site failed to answer me. And when you guys fail to answer something, I have to start looking for other sources for information.

Thank you BMZ for your fine contribution in defending islam. I bolded the Smilie.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Hello Rational,

I think I am holding another conversation with you on the other forum Smile

This forum is more for discussing the sources of islam. Books. Hadith. Sunna and other goodies as we well as the texts from other religions.

The other site is for discussing the cultural issues of the divine comedies.


Bold emphasis, within your quote, has been done by me, Baal.

Are you sure you are really holding rational converstaions with Rational.  Very Happy  I mean, I hope.

BMZ

Yes I asked her to tell me what were the rights she was told and then asked her to tell me what rights had she been shown in the koran. Something that you and your friends in the anti-FFI site failed to answer me. And when you guys fail to answer something, I have to start looking for other sources for information.

Thank you BMZ for your fine contribution in defending islam. I bolded the Smilie.


You were not very rational in your first para above.  Wink  I have always answered to a point of relevance. Beyond that I do not entertain anyone. You know well that I avoid intellectual masturbation.

However, if you need an answer, you can always ask me here. I write here mostly in Jesus Mode. As long as you ask questions holding yourself in the 'Doubting Thomas' Mode, I will answer.  lol!

Thanks for your compliment in the last line.

BMZ

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Ex-Muslim Reply with quote

Rational1 wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm an American Muslim convert of 7 years who very recently decided to leave Islam. I am currently working in the Middle East and have been here for 3 years. Being here is what spurred my investigation and eventual rejection of Islam. I only have 4 months left before I get to go back home, yay!

I think I've seen a few of you on other forums, but I just wanted to say hi and that I'm glad to be here, and I hope to see lots of stimulating and respectful debates!

Smile
Susan


Hello Rational,

Greetings & Welcome

I don't know much about you but you have my best wishes for a happy life.

Take care
BMZ

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Ex-Muslim Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Hello Rational,

Greetings & Welcome

I don't know much about you but you have my best wishes for a happy life.

Take care
BMZ


Why, thank you, BMZ Very Happy and the same to you as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What place is it you're at right now ?

Kuweit ?

And you are working there... I have gathered...

Do you have to go to the mosque with your friends and fake all the ceremonies and rites ?


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