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arabic speakers please
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

Just to add my 2 cents to all the above

The word Fahisha or Al Fahisha are identical in the meaning, the Al has no effect in the meaning and will only be required for gramatical reasons as required for every sentence on its own

the word itself means a very perverted act, or a very criminal act, or a very bad act, it can cover all sins indeed, in 4:16 we know that it should be covering homosexual acts because it is talking about two males doing it

Also if you read 24:19 you should see the word Al Fahisha while the verse in not explicit to the homos

Therefore using the Al with all the verses about homsecuality has absolutely no effect but a mere gramatical coincidence

There is also another word that mean the exact same which is used 7 times in the Quran:

الفحشاء, Al Fahshaa,  seen in 24:21 for example, in all 7 times the word was used with the Al, indeed the word does noot exist in the Quran without an Al

Therefore the Al has absoutely no extra meaning to the word itself

Hope this helps

Salam

asalaamu alikum

thanks for the reply. that is very interesting indeed. on islam qa, the sheikh there said that it mean that homosexuality was the worse sin, worse then fornication because in fornication it does not use the "al" as it does for gays. he even said it was worse then murder since in murder the family can chose whether or not the murderer shall be put to death. all i could think was astaghfirullah, they had no right to make that assumption without clear cut proof from qu'ran and sunnah.

so why is "al" used sometimes though, but not always?

wasalaam
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

Just to add my 2 cents to all the above

The word Fahisha or Al Fahisha are identical in the meaning, the Al has no effect in the meaning and will only be required for gramatical reasons as required for every sentence on its own

the word itself means a very perverted act, or a very criminal act, or a very bad act, it can cover all sins indeed, in 4:16 we know that it should be covering homosexual acts because it is talking about two males doing it

Also if you read 24:19 you should see the word Al Fahisha while the verse in not explicit to the homos

Therefore using the Al with all the verses about homsecuality has absolutely no effect but a mere gramatical coincidence

There is also another word that mean the exact same which is used 7 times in the Quran:

الفحشاء, Al Fahshaa,  seen in 24:21 for example, in all 7 times the word was used with the Al, indeed the word does noot exist in the Quran without an Al

Therefore the Al has absoutely no extra meaning to the word itself

Hope this helps

Salam

asalaamu alikum

thanks for the reply. that is very interesting indeed. on islam qa, the sheikh there said that it mean that homosexuality was the worse sin, worse then fornication because in fornication it does not use the "al" as it does for gays. he even said it was worse then murder since in murder the family can chose whether or not the murderer shall be put to death. all i could think was astaghfirullah, they had no right to make that assumption without clear cut proof from qu'ran and sunnah.

so why is "al" used sometimes though, but not always?

wasalaam


Salam mate

The sheikh can not be 100% accurate

I actually believe that  the sin of homosexuality is on the same calibre as the sin of Zina, both are considered Kabaair (big ones)

for the Al issue, again it is all about grammar

for example I can say:

Do not commit Fahisha

and I can also say

Do not commmit Al Fahisha

both are valid gramatically and both mean the same thing

the only possible differnece that that second one may be explicit to a specific type of fahisha while the first covers all fahisha

the Al under Arabic grammar is called "Al Altarif", i.e. the Al of the Known

i.e. when you add an Al then it is assumed that you are pin pointing to a specifc thing,   while if without an Al then it can mean anything

for example

Ii can say, I have ridden a bus, this means that I'm referring to any bus

but if I say, I have ridden the bus, this means that I'm pin pointing to a specfic bus, possibly the school bus, of course other context in what I additionly said must give the listener a hint to which bus I was talking about if I used the Al before the bus, if I don't use the Al then the listener can assume that I'm talking about any bus

Hope this helps

Salam
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me give you a grammar example to how the Al can change things grmatically

If I say, Autobis Kabir, which means big bus, the word Kabir does not have an al, as well the word bus, this must make the word Kabir to be Sifah (adjective) to the word Autobis

the rule is like this, the adjective must follow the noun we are referring to regarding the Al, i.e.

if the bus have the Al then Kabir must have the Al

or

if the Bus does not have the Al, then kabir must noot have the Al

in both cases, the word Kabir must be an adjective to the word Autobis

now if the second word have an al, like Autobis Al Madrasah, i.e. bus of the school,  then the second word that have the Al can not be an adjective rather Mudaf Ilaihi

i.e. if the first word does not have the Al while the second word (that adds further info to it) has the Al, then the second word can not be an adjective rather Mmudaf Ilaihi

The Arabiic grammar is not so simple mate

Salam
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, so it is not emphasizing on sodomy as being a huge sin? it is just how the arabic is?

oh ok. i saw on islamqa they say that it means homosexuality is a wrose sin because it is "the great sin"and not just "a"

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