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Sunan Ibn Magih
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Sunan Ibn Magih  Reply with quote

Salam brothers and sisters

I decided to look further in the nine books which Al Mushrikoon made next to the Quran in defiance to the clear order from Allah that we should rule with what Allah has sent down, and in defiance to Allah words that we should never seek other than Allah for a judge, ironically their stupid actions were also in defiance †to the clear order from the prophet not to write anything he says but the Quran and if they did, they should have deleted it, see how clear that those Mushrikoon did not and do not OBEY Allah and His messenger. Well there is far more to say, we have 9 books of hearsay that we must go through page by page.

I will start with Ibn Magih book, last night I read many chapters, †however when I looked at the sub index of the introduction chapter, something caught my eyes, let me show it to you in a screen shot from the hearsay Arabic web site:




The highlighted (in red squares) sub chapters under the Introduction chapter are all dedicated to promote and praise the Sahaba, each sub chapter is dedicated to one of the Sahaba, there is no need to mention who they are, it is just most of them starting from Abu Bakr

Now, I donít deny the Sahaba good work, in fact I even believe that they did far more good work than what is told to us in the hearsay books, the bottom line is this, whatever they did IS BETWEEN THEM AND ALLAH, we have absolutely nothing to do with it nor even ponder upon it because how we can prove that the hearsay written is truthful?. we will never be able to, we can only wishful think i guess.

Remember in the story when Noah (one of the great and long lived prophets) was believing heart and soul that his son was a good person, when Allah caused his evil son to drown, Noah could not believe it and tried to argue with Allah to why He did not save His son while He told him that his family will be saved, Allah informed him that his son †was evil, and ordered Noah not to ask questions concerning what he has no knowledge about, Noah quickly realized his mistake and repented on the spot and totally forgot about his evil son.

Now what we suppose to do after reading all these chapters praising all those people who lived 1400 years ago? Should we take what Ibn Magih is hearsaying to us for granted?, we never even met Ibn Magih, we canít even know if Ibn Magih was a good or a bad person yet we are required by Al Mushrikoon to take Ibn Magih words for granted that all these people were good.

The problem here that if we look at their history we see that all those people conflicted straight after the prophet died, in fact we are told that after Uthman was killed Aysha and her supporters faught with Ali and his supporters, the two can not be right at the same time. One of the groups must be wrong, or even both were wrong.

See what Iím talking about, we just can not know who was good and who was bad regarding those who lived hundreds of years before us, we canít even know who is calling the self a believer while inside they are not really believers, donít forget that the Quran tells us that Al Mushrikoon never believe that they are Mushrikoon

I will leave you with that for now to ponder upon while I take my children to their schools and head to work, later on inshaalllah I will start by looking at many hadith from Ibn Magih hearsay book

Salam all
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And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]


Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

Just came from work and have about an hour before I pick my son up from his school, I thought I should use it to write this comment then when I come back inshaalllah I will start showing you many hearsay examples from Ibn Magih hearsay and conjectures book

As you have noticed in my first comment that I mentioned Noah and his son,  the reason I did so is to show you that even a great prophet like Noah could not know who is bad and who is good, even if it was a family member who lived with him many years

The following verse is informing us with the order to build the Ark given to Noah:

And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

[The Quran ; 11;37]

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلاَ تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِنَّهُم مُّغْرَقُونَ (37)

-> See, And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, this was not the end of the order, in fact Noah was ordered  another thing as well: and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust, at this moment of time Noah did not know that his son was from among the unjust, in fact he was thinking that his son was a good believer, however Noah was given a hint about those who are unjust, see what Allah said next: surely they shall be drowned., I.e. those who will drown must be unjust. It seems that Noah overlooked such hint from Allah.

Years passed and Noah finished building the ark, in all those years and up to this moment of time Noah still an ignorant regarding the reality of his own son faith:

Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family-- except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.

[The Quran ; 11;40]

حَتَّى إِذَا جَاء أَمْرُنَا وَفَارَ التَّنُّورُ قُلْنَا احْمِلْ فِيهَا مِن كُلٍّ زَوْجَيْنِ اثْنَيْنِ وَأَهْلَكَ إِلاَّ مَن سَبَقَ عَلَيْهِ الْقَوْلُ وَمَنْ آمَنَ وَمَا آمَنَ مَعَهُ إِلاَّ قَلِيلٌ (40)

-> What we should notice that Noah was ordered to take with him, his family, see: We said: Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family, the family members mentioned here are those who believed with him not those who were faking belief, and surely Noah can not know who is fake and who is not, however another hint was given to him, yet he overlooked it again: see whom Allah has exempted from his family: except those against whom the word has already gone forth, i.e. it is about those whom Allah knows their faith reality while Noah could not know that, in fact up to this moment Noah was still  believing hard that his son was one of the believers

In the next two verses, things started to heat up, Noah tried to get his son to board the ark but somehow his son declined and preferred to seek refuge on the summit of a mountain, see how Allah plan is executed while neither Noah nor his son were aware of it:

42: And it moved on with them amid waves like mountains; and Nuh called out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! embark with us and be not with the unbelievers.

43: He said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall protect me from the water. Nuh said: There is no protector today from Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; and a wave intervened between them, so he was of the drowned.

[The Quran ; 11;42-43]

وَهِيَ تَجْرِي بِهِمْ فِي مَوْجٍ كَالْجِبَالِ وَنَادَى نُوحٌ ابْنَهُ وَكَانَ فِي مَعْزِلٍ يَا بُنَيَّ ارْكَب مَّعَنَا وَلاَ تَكُن مَّعَ الْكَافِرِينَ (42)
قَالَ سَآوِي إِلَى جَبَلٍ يَعْصِمُنِي مِنَ الْمَاء قَالَ لاَ عَاصِمَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللّهِ إِلاَّ مَن رَّحِمَ وَحَالَ بَيْنَهُمَا الْمَوْجُ فَكَانَ مِنَ الْمُغْرَقِينَ (43)

-> See: and Nuh called out to his son, and he was aloof: O my son! embark with us and be not with the unbelievers., i.e. Noah was thinking that his son should be with the believers.

-> However his son declined to embark, exactly as Allah planned (how awesome is that brothers and sisters): He (Noahís son)  said: I will betake myself for refuge to a mountain that shall protect me from the water, yet Noah was thinking that his son is a believer up to this moment, see what Noah told his son next: Nuh said: There is no protector today from Allah's punishment but He Who has mercy; however it seems that the high waves stopped the conversation as Noah witnessed his son drowning: and a wave intervened between them, so he was of the drowned., at this moment, everything should click in Noah's mind. Let me put it to you in sequential points:

1) Allah orders Noah to build the arc
2) Allah orders Noah not to speak for those who are unjust because they MUST drown.
3) Allah orders Noah to order his family to embark the ark EXCEPT those against whom the word has already gone forth
4) Noah plead with his kafir son to embark the ark
5) His kafir son refused
6) His kafir son drowned

From the above, we must conclude the following:

1) Noah did not know that his son was a kafir from among the unjust, he was thinking the contrary.
2) Because the son drowned then he must have been from among the unjust

Yet it did not click with Noah, possibly he was thinking emotionally instead of thinking logically, it is very well understood, it was his son, however it does not work with Allah in such way, and emotions have absolutely no value when it comes to dealing with the unjust, at least from the God perspective

Letís now see how Noah acted according to his emotions:

45: And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! Surely my son is of my family, and Your promise is surely true, and You are the most just of the judges.

46: He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant

47: He said: My Lord! I seek refuge in You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge; and if You shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.

[The Quran ; 11;45-47]

وَنَادَى نُوحٌ رَّبَّهُ فَقَالَ رَبِّ إِنَّ ابُنِي مِنْ أَهْلِي وَإِنَّ وَعْدَكَ الْحَقُّ وَأَنتَ أَحْكَمُ الْحَاكِمِينَ (45)
قَالَ يَا نُوحُ إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَهْلِكَ إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صَالِحٍ فَلاَ تَسْأَلْنِ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ إِنِّي أَعِظُكَ أَن تَكُونَ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ (46)
قَالَ رَبِّ إِنِّي أَعُوذُ بِكَ أَنْ أَسْأَلَكَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَإِلاَّ تَغْفِرْ لِي وَتَرْحَمْنِي أَكُن مِّنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ (47)

->  See, And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said: My Lord! Surely my son is of my family, and Your promise is surely true, and You are the most just of the judges., then Noah was informed with his ignorance regarding his son: He (Allah) said: O Nuh! Surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds,  see how ONLY ALLAH CAN KNOW WHO IS BAD AND WHO IS GOOD, then Allah gave the lesson hard to Noah: therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge;, of course Noah should have worked it out if he used logic but it is understood that he failed because it was his son,  then Allah admonishes Noah: surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant, see. Now Noah can not argue any longer, he must have realized that he has been done by his own son who was faking his  belief: He said: My Lord! I seek refuge in You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge; and if You shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.

How clear is that brothers and sisters?

Well, if it is not clear yet, let me show another Quran verse that should make it without a doubt, clear:

Surely your Lord best knows him who errs from His way, and He best knows the followers of the right course.

[The Quran ; 68;7]

إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبِيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (7)

-> See how clear it is: Surely your Lord best knows him who errs from His way, and He best knows the followers of the right course., i.e. Mohammed, Noah and any other prophet can not know for sure him who errs from Allah way, nor they can know the followers of the right course. ONLY ALLAH KNOWS, exactly as we have seen in the story of Noah above

Now I have to question Ibn Magih and His followers, why he included all such hearsay hadith dedicated to praise such people in a book which led to that their names are now Mukhaldeen (eternal) in this life?

Is it part of the sunnah to praise others regarding their faith while ONLY ALLAH can know who is sincere in his faith and who is not?

What will it add to the individual belief other than many will idolise them? while I agree that we should take any good believer as an Iswa Hasinah (good example), but that should only be valid to those believers whom we can witness their actions, not those who lived hundreds of years ago and all what we have is some hearsay that was even narrated by people that we know nothing about other than conjectures.

I really believe that the objective of all such hearsay hadith praising all those dead people is nothing but to brainwash all the next generations of the Muslims to believe in wide and plenty of conjectures and again in defiance to Allah command to all believers to avoid most conjectures even if most of it is a possible truth, believe me it's a plot by Satan

Salam all
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam brothers and sisters

Itís about time to start going through Sunan Ibn Magih, I will post one hadith at a time then my walkthrough and comment, I would  like to start with the following hadith, not strangely that I accept the following hadith, this is because it makes great sense as well complies 100% with the Quran, Iím sure I will find the equivalent to it in the Sahihain (Bukhari and Muslim), but I will leave this to later time inshaalllah, I would like to concentrate on Ibn Magih for now, letís have a look at this very good hadith:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Nashaar <-- Yahya Ibn Said Al Qattan <--  Shuba and Suffian  <-- Alqamah Ibn Murttad <-- Saad Ibn Ubaidah <-- Abi Abdul Rahman Al Salma <-- Uthman Ibn Affan who said:

The saying of the prophet goes like this:

Rasool Allah (sslla Allah alayhi wa sallam) said (according to Shuba): Khairakum (the best of you) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it

According to Suffian, it goes like this: Afddalakum (The most preferred) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it.


See how from the fifth chain of hearsay undelined in the chain of hearsayers above, they started to forget what the prophet really said, Shuba used the word Khairakum while Suffian used the word Afddalakum, I agree however that the two words may be used synonymously but the accuracy has to stay doubtful, that is what a hearsay is, it is a mixture of true and false, certainly the prophet used one of the words,  we can even assume now that the prophet might have even used another word but these two, like Ahsanakum, which is more synonymous with Khairakum than Afddalakum

I also agree that the hadith teaching is great, this is because it makes great sense that the best of people are those who commit themselves to studying Allah words then teach it to others, the sincerity of those taking on such tough and honourable task can only be verified by Allah alone, no human can know it, they can only guess it and they can certainly be wrong in their guess, exactly as prophet Noah was wrong in guessing that his son was a good believer while he was not and drowned with the unjust.

Now letís apply the above hearsay hadith on some people like Bukhari and Muslim, I will choose Bukhari for now as one example

We were told by the Bukhari advocates that he memorised the Quran by the age of 8, donít forget that we were also told by the Bukhari advocates that he memorised 70,000 hadith by the age of 10, something that does not make sense in here, but let me just assume that this myth is plausible and not busted, now I have to ask:

Is memorising the Quran by the age of 8 considered to be LEARNING the Quran? Some may say so, and I might agree to a very low level, for example, memorising the Quran by the age of 8 will be considered as 10% of learning the Quran , this is because a child at the age of 8 does not have the experience and knowledge to really comprehend the tough message of the Quran, I have watched one of those kids the other day on Youtube, the kid was amazing, he memorised the followings:

1) The whole Quran
2) The verse number
3) The sura number
4) The page number
5) The line number(s)

Bloody amazing man, what an achievement I have to say, no one can take it of him, however the kid is like programmed into one copy of the Quran, if you test him regarding the page number and line number(s) using another Quran, the kid MUST fail. Ironically knowing the page number(s) and the line number(s) is fruitless, the kid wasted his time on it, but the kid did amazingly great regarding the first 3 items (the Quran, the sura number and the verse number)

Now, does anyone think that this kid really learnt the Quran more than hardly 10%?, it is impossible to believe that any kid can, the prophet himself waited until he was 40 years old then for the next 23 years he was taught the Quran, see, it just does not add up that at such early age, children can comprehend the Quran.

A big problem may arise, which is simply, those kids now think that they achieved the ultimate goal regarding the Quran, and they bloody spend the rest of their child life and all their mature life learning, pondering, spreading and teaching the hadith.

Bukhari is a perfect example of such people, he memorised the Quran by the age of 8, then from 8 to 10 (two years) he memorised 70,000 hadith (that is roughly equivalent to more than 10 Qurans btw), then from the age of 10, he spent the rest of his life learning 530,000  hadith for him to filter them based on his own criteria to about 7200 hadith, during all these years which cover all his mature life, he was doing one thing only, learning, memorising, and teaching hadith

Now if we apply the above hadith from Ibn Magih hearsay book, then Bukhari can not be described as the best of the believers, he was not spending his life learning the Quran nor teaching it, let me remind you with the content of that hadith again, I will use Shuba version: Khairakum (the best of you) is he who learns the Quran and teaches it. and that can not be Bukhari, ironically the Bukhari advocates are trying hard for 1200 years to convince the Muslims that Bukhari was one of the best of believers

Indeed, no one knows, he might have been one of the best believers despite his actions can not prove it according to the criteria in the above hadith by Ibn Magih.

You should have guessed it right, only Allah knows who is a good believer and who is a very bad believer and who is a kafir and who is a very bad kafir

Salam all
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning all

Today, we have another hadith from Ibn Magih book to go through, I say the hadith should not even be called hadith, you will see that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it. however I actually agree with the message in such so called hadith, let me show it to you:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Al Abbas Ibn Abdul Azim Al Anbaray <-- Abdul Alrazzaq <--  Moamir  <-- Ibn Tawoos <-- Ibn Tawoos Father <-- that Ibn Abbas said:

The saying of Ibn Abbas goes like this:

We were memorising the hadith and the hadith of Rasool Allah salla Allah alayhi wa sallam should be memorised, but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away

-> See, the prophet said absolutely nothing, it was a saying by Ibn Abbas, and it is alleged that he said the HADITH OF RASOOL ALLAH (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) SHOULD BE MEMORISED, this means it should not be written in a book  exactly as the prophet advised them many times, not to write anything he says but the Quran

The second half of the hadith is very vague, I read Sannadi explanation to it and all I could make of it that the people started transferring lies about the prophet, that was expressed by the words but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away, tough to make sense out of it I say, but regardless of what he meant by the last bit of such hadith, why a hadith like that is included in a book that is called Sunan? what sunnah in there exactly?, and the sunnah of whom?

Is it the sunnah of the Prophet?

Is it the sunnah of Ibn Abbas?

Or

Is it the sunnah of Ibn Magih?

Sounds like it has nothing to do with the sunnah of anyone really rather an alleged historical incident between a few guys having a chat chat, right brothers and sisters?

Well, what I make of such allegation that the hadith of the prophet should have never made it in a book and should have been only memorised, exactly as the allegation above that Ibn Abbas said so

Salam all
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good afternoon all

Letís move on to the next hadith in the same chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, the chapter is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith, we have another hadith from Ibn Magih that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it, in fact, again I say the hadith should not even be called hadith, you will see again that the prophet said absolutely nothing in it. however the hadith indeed gives us a hint regarding the transmission of the prophet sayings:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Abdullah Ibn Namir <-- Abu Al Nadr <--  Shuba  <-- Abdul Allah Ibn Abi Al Safar <-- Al Shubi :

The saying of Al Shubi goes like this:

I have accompanied Ibn Umar for a year and I never heard him transferring any hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how some of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet, this makes sense because the prophet has died, Ibn Umar must have listebed to Abu Bakr when the prophet died and he (Abu Bakr) came out informing those who were crying for the prophet that if they worshipped Mohammed then Mohammed is dead, but if the worship the Lord of Mohammed, then Allah never dies, what an alleged great wisdom by a great man like Abu Bakr, again, we just canít be sure that Abu Bakr really said so, nor we can be sure that Al Shubi saying about Ibn Umar can be true, but what we can be assured of that the prophet said absolutely nothing in the above alleged hadith, same as the previous hadith, it sounds like two (Al Shubi & Abdul Allah Ibn Al Saffar) were just having a chat chat, Al Shubi said to the other guy that he accompanied Ibn Umar a year and in this year Ibn Umar said absolutely nothing of the sayings of Mohammed

I wonder from where all these hundreds of thousands of hearsays that Bukhari, Muslim and others brought forward if many of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after  he died as we have seen above in the hadith taken from a chapter in Ibn Magih book that is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
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And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

Here is anoother hadith from the same chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith, the hadith is almost identical context to the above but starring different people:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Mohammed Ibn Bashaar <-- Abdul Al Rahman <--  Hammad Ibn Zaid  <-- Yahya Ibn Said <-- Al Saib Ibn Yazid :

The saying of Al Saib Ibn Yazid:

I have accompanied Saad Ibn Malklik from Madinah to Mecca and I have never heard him transferring one hadith that was said by the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam

-> See how more Sahabas refrained themselves from talking or transferring any hadith by the prophet,

I have to ask again:  From where all these hundreds of thousands of hearsays that Bukhari, Muslim and others brought forward if many of the Sahaba refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after  he died as we have seen above in the hadith taken from a chapter in Ibn Magih book that is called Being careful when transmitting the prophet hadith

An important note is what Al Sanadi said in his explanation to that hadith, I included Al Sanadi tafsir in the image above, sort of he was wondering, how come there are hadith carrying the names of those Sahaba while we read above that they refrained themselves from talking hadith, Al Sanadi tried to offer a reason by saying that they must have talked hadith WHEN THEY WERE IN DESPERATE NEED FOR ONE, otherwise how come there are many of hadith carrying their names as narrators, he ended his explanation by suggesting that some of the sahaba like Abu Hurairah must have been exempted from such caution, I say, that is funny by him to justify the thousands of hadith transmitted by a man whose integrity is doubted like Abu Hurairah

Al Sanadi also offered a silly explanation to why many refrained from transmitting the hadith, he said that they must have considered that their mission is finished by transmitting it to others and now it is the others who need to transmit it, hmmmmmm, hahahahahahahah, that was bloody funny indeed

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
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And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

Letís look at this alleged hadith by the prophet from the book of Ibn Magih



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Abu Bakr Abi Shaiba <-- Yahya Ibn Yaali Altaimi <--  Mohammad Ibn Ishaq Ibn Kaab  <-- Ibi Qatada :

The saying of Abi Qatada goes like this:

I have heard the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam while he was on the stand saying : Be warned of talking too much about me, and whoever says something of what I said then he must speak truthfully and whoever lies by allegeing things that I have never said then his seat in hell is secured

- See how the prophet warned the people to talk way too much about him: اياكم و كثرة الحديث عني ,Iyakum Wa Kuthrat Al Hadith Anny, i.e. Be warned of talking too much about me

The problem here O Rasool Allah, and I believe that you can hear me, that what is alleged to be said above by you just went down the drain, FOR 1200 YEARS AND UP TO THIS MOMENT THE FREAK MUSLIMS CANíT STOP TALKING ABOUT YOU, they even put your alleged sayings in 9 books that compete with each other, in clear violation to your alleged saying not to write anything you say but the Quran

I seek refuge in Allah

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning †all

Here is another so called hadith from the book of Ibn Magih, again a hadith in which the prophet said absolutely nothing, the hadith however confirms that many Sahabas refrained themselves from talking about the prophet after he died, letís have a look:



Source

Simply it states the following:

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:

Abu Bakr Abi Shaiba & Mohammed Ibn Bashaar <-- Ghandar Mohammed Ibn Ghafar <-- †Shuba †<-- Gami Ibn Shaddad Abi Sakhara <-- Amer Ibn Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair <-- Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair †:

The saying of Abdul Allah Ibn Al Zobair goes like this:

I said to Zobair Ibn Al Aawam: Why I donít hear you saying any hadith about the prophet salla Allah alayhi wa sallam as I hear Ibn Masood and many others?. †Zobair Ibn Al Aawam replied: While I didnít leave him (the prophet) since I embraced Islam, I heard him saying on the stand : Whoever lies about me deliberately then his seat in hell will be secured

- Again it was †saying by someone else but the prophet, that man (Zobair Ibn Al Aawam) who is one of the ten promised Jannah as the hearsay hadith alleged, that man who will never lie DELIBRATELY about the prophet STILL REFRAINED HIMSELF FROM TALKING HADITH, obviously he chose to be careful and not indulge himself in Jerry Springer crap of conjectures that may be used by the enemy to spread lies about the prophet, a wise man he was

Do other Muslims did the same after the prophet died?, of course not, many of those confused Muslims accepted Satan invitation to indulge their arses in Jerry Springer crap and conjectures about our great prophet and even put it in a book that nowdays is a rich source for the enemy of Islam to defame the great man Mohammed and all his followers

Again, I have to seek refuge in Allah

See you all soon with next hadith inshaallah

Salam
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the f. is ibn magih ?

Is he relevant regarding THE HOAX ?

Can he whitewash the blood on islamic tracks ?

Can he make something "holy", which is rather unholy and primitive ?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

I would like to move on to another chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book Sunan Ibn Magih, there is actually more hadith to be looked at in the Introduction chapter, as well we will need to look at all those chapters where the sahaba were praised and see what sunnah we can learn from it, for the time being I would like to jump to the third chapter, the chapter is called Al Salat, i.e. The Prayer, this subject is very important to debunk Al Mushrikoon because they always think that they can corner those who are against the written hadith, not the MEMORISED/ORAL ones by referring to the subject of prayer, let me explain further:

Many written hadith advocates whom I debated with always come with their Tom and Jerry argument that those written hadith are important for us to learn how to pray, while the matter of the fact I have never learnt how to pray from a book, I actually canít remember how I learnt praying, but I guess it was very early in my life, possibly between 3 and 8 years old, I can actually witness my 4 years old son for the last 2 years learning it automatically from me, it starts by curiosity from the child seeing his father praying, then †the child starts to †jump on my back while Iím prostrating, he made me laugh many times actually (just canít stop it when happens, it is so funny Ė Astaghfar Allah), later on he started duplicating my moves while standing next to me, so I bought him his child size praying mat, and he automatically figured out that this is his own praying mat, itís really amazing to watch, at least it may give me a hint to how many kids who are brought up in such environment will automatically learn how to pray, later on inshaallah when he is aware enough I will explain to him what praying is all about, then how to do it, and I donít think the whole matter needs a book. Al Mushrikoon however keep telling us that to learn how to pray we need all those written hadith, I on the other hand agree with them to a degree, what I reject from them is their allegation that we need it written, therefore while we are investigating Ibn Magih hearsay book, we can not over look the Prayer chapter, I want to see if how I pray the 5 times a day is detailed as Al Mushrikoon claim

In the next image from Ibn Magih book index, the highlighted chapter (in red rectangle) is the Prayer chapter:



This chapter is divided into 13 sub chapters as seen below:



What I will do from my next comment inshaallah is to go through every single hadith in those 13 chapters (I may skip the ones with identical context but I will still reference them briefly), then we can reach a conclusion if the whole chapter of Prayers in Ibn Magih book was/is required

Talk to you soon inshaallah


Salam


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