FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  Who is OnlineWho is Online   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
  • Welcome
  • Guest

  • Main Menu
  • Sticky Articles
  • Open Support Tickets
Sunan Ibn Magih
Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Please Register and Login to this forum to stop seeing this advertising.






Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
Posted:     Post subject:

Back to top
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Good morning brothers and sisters

Today we will look at  all the hadith in the second sub chapter named The time of Fajr (dawn) prayer under the main chapter named The Prayer

The second sub chapter named The time of Fajr (dawn) prayer has 4 hadith in it as seen in the following index from Ibn Magih hearsay book:



Here is the first hadith:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Shaiba <-- Suffian Ibn Ayniah <-- Al Zuharri <-- Arawa <-- Aysha:

The saying of Aysha goes like this:
The women from among the believers were praying with the prophet salla Allah Alaihi wa sallam the Subh prayer then they return to their families and non of them would have recognised them, she meant because of darkness.

As you can see above, the hadith is not a saying by prophet Mohammed, nor it told us how we pray salat al Fajr (dawn prayer) , ironically it did not even tell us what is the time for salat al Fajr (dawn prayer)

Letís analyse the hadith, the hadith is talking about salat al Subh, let me assume that she was referring to salat al Fajr, this assumption may be confirmed by what she meant by the families not recognising them due to the darkness,  but that should not be the objective of such hearsay, a child who knows what Fajr (dawn) is, should know that it starts while it is dark, therefore there is absolutely no information that can benfit us from such hadith, in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr, I really wonder why she did not refer to it as salat al Fajr despite the word Fajr is a common Arabic word as well used in the Quran, but we know well now that even if she used the word Fajr instead of Subh, the hadith is fruitless because it failed to tell us what time salat al Fajr starts, and most importantly the hadith never explained to us how to pray salat al Fajr nor it even told us how many Rakaa it should be.  

Letís move on to the next hadith:


Source

The hadith above suppose to be an elaboration by the prophet regarding the following Quran verse:

Stand up for the prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the dawn Quran; surely the dawn Quran is witnessed.

[The Quran ; 17:78]

أَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا (78)


The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Ubaid Ibn Asbat Ibn Mohammed Al Farshi <-- Ubaidís father <-- Al Amash <-- Ibarhim <--Abdulllah  & Al Amash <-- Abi Salih <-- Abi Hurairah <-- Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:

Can you see how silly the above chain is: Al Amash appeared twice in the chain, I underlined both above, what is silly that Al Amash was fifth in the chain of hearsayers and he was also in the third chain but this time with Abdullah, sort of Abdullah and Al Amash were talking at the same time. Funny indeed

The saying of goes like this:
Regarding 17:78, it means that the angels of the day and night witness it.

What can I say man, there is absolutely nothing to learn from such hadith, in fact the hadith is misleading because I have never heard of such term before, the angels of the day and night, this is very stupid brothers and sisters, we are talking about darkness time (al Fajr) (the dawn), yet Abu Hurairah is telling us the angels of the day witness it, I thought that angels have no relation to the human day and night, of course there should be no relation whatsoever,  more ironic how about Allah?, does He witness those who read the Quran at dawn?, well according to Abu Huraiah allegation, Allah does not, only the angels of the day and night witness it, how come the prophet said such ignorant statement regarding 17:78, it is impossible to believe that he did so, for me the above is yet another lie by the doubtful Abu Hurairah, that is what you should notice brothers and sisters, most non sensible hadith were narrated by that man as we will see in our research inshaallah

The above hadith has to be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) It created a conjecture regarding the angels by classifying them under two categories, the day angels and the night angels
2) It excluded Allah from witnessing those who read the Quran at dawn
3) It never told us the time of the Fajr prayer
4) It never told us how to pray the Fajr prayer
5) It never told us how many Rakaa the Fajr prayer is
6) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah who was accused of lying about the prophet by Omar and by Aysha according to the many allegations and conjectures we read in such books

Letís look at the next hadith:


Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Abdul Rahman Ibn Ibrahim Al Damashqi <-- Al Waleed Ibn Muslim <-- Al Awzaai <-- Naheek Ibn Yareem Al Awzaai <-- Mughith Ibn Sama:

The saying of Mughith Ibn Sama goes like this:
I prayed the Subh prayer with Abdullah Ibn Al Zubair during darkness and when he finished his prayer I asked Ibn Omar: What prayer is that?, Ibn Omar said: This is our prayer that we did with Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam, as well with Abu Bakr and Umar. But when Umar doubted it, Uthman confirmed  what Ibn Omar said.

What load of non sense man, the above hearsay teaches us nothing but the sahaba were confused what salat al Fajr is, this is because when Mughith prayed with Abdullah Ibn Al Zubair at darkness (suppose to be the Fajr prayer) he went and asked Ibn Omar about it, but Omar (looks like Omar Ibn Al Khatab) doubted what Ibn Omar said that the believers should be praying during such darkness, then the witnessing of Uthman confirmed what Ibn Omar said regarding such prayer at darkness.

Again the above hearsay must be dismissed because of the following:

1) It was not a saying by the prophet
2) It  raises questions on the table that the prayer at darkness were doubted during that time (I assume after the prophet had died)
3) It failed to tell us what prayer they were talking about, neither Subh nor Fajr
4) It failed to tell us how the prayer were performed
5) It failed to tell us how many Rakaa were performed

Nothing but total confusion that must be fruitless.

Letís look at the last hadith in this sub chapter that suppose to tell us the time of the Fajr (dawn) prayer



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Mohammed Ibn Al Sabbah <-- Suffian Ibn Ayniah <-- Ibn Aglaan <-- Asim Abn Oomar Ibn Qatadah & his grandfather Badri <-- Mahmood Ibn Labeed <-- Rafi Ibn Khadij <-- the prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:

The saying of the prophet goes like this:
Wake up in the Subh because it is better in the reward, or he said better for your reward.

Actually the hadith above is hard to translate, these three words ‏أصبحوا بالصبح , Asbihu Bi Al Subh, I believe it means to wake up at Subh (presumed Fajr Ďdawní  time), while indirectly means to pray the Fajr prayer, because it is better in the reward, can you see how Rafi Ibn Khadij forgot what the prophet said at the end, he was not sure if the prophet said: it is better for the reward or it is better for your reward, it is not a big issue but still an argument against the accuracy of such hearsay.

If the prophet really said the above, then what sunnah is in his saying? Absolutely nothing rather, an advice that getting up to pray al Fajr prayer (assumption that he meant Fajr prayer), is better for the reward. We were never told how to do al Fajr prayer nor have we been told how many Rakaa the Fajr prayer is, on the other hand I accept such alleged advice because it is logical that when we are sleep at night and we wake up especially for the prayer then it should be better in the reward, no rocket science of hadith is required to understand it.

Here you have it brothers and sisters, almost nothing (indeed it is nothing) we learnt from the above 4 hadith that suppose to tell us at least the time of the Fajr prayer, the word Fajr was never mentioned in all 4 hadith however what we learnt from the above 4 hadith that the women were praying with the prophet at darkness and when the men did it on their own, they doubted each other and looked very stupid to what prayer they suppose to do at what time.

Itís really strange brothers and sisters, why then now days  we use the calculated times (to the minute) that tells us the time of the Fajr prayer every day (365 days a year)? Are we following the sunnah of the prophet by doing so?, Did they really calculate the time of the Fajr prayer as we do now?, if not then we are not following such sunnah of the prophet and his people, in fact, if we do then we should doubt the praying at darkness like many of the sahaba did and we should also believe that there are day angels and night angels as we read above in the hearsay book of Ibn Magih

Talk to you soon in the next prayer sub chapter inshaallah

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baal
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 445



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are so good at practicing the Science of the hadith Ahmed.

You talk about Zobair Ibn Al Aawam not talking as much as ibn masoud, that is because Zobeir was a Christian, he did not want to take part of this crap and make it worse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baal
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 445



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?

Wow, the master subject matter expert of hadith is asking for my opinion.

Doing what you are doing, comparing the historical document to each other, finding inconsistencies, finding reinforcements, if anything i would ask you to remain a little more scholarly and try to prove your point and instead just concentrate on finding the Truth of what happened.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?

Wow, the master subject matter expert of hadith is asking for my opinion.

Doing what you are doing, comparing the historical document to each other, finding inconsistencies, finding reinforcements, if anything i would ask you to remain a little more scholarly and try to prove your point and instead just concentrate on finding the Truth of what happened.


I'm sorry pal, the science of hadith you are talking about is noot what I'm doing

The science of hadfith is mainly about the narrators reputaions (which i proved to be flawed, the story of Noah and his son), however they claim to also look at the Matn, which is the content of the hadith (the message of it), but their Matn science seems that it was based on flawed criteria that made the most of the Ummah confused, sounds to me like a Satan plot

Thei two maiin selection criteria, Isnad and Matn are 100% flawed
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also baal, I careless about who the narrters are, in fact if bukhari was alive, I would have challneged him that those whom he  claimed to never lie did indeed lie, I absoutely don't know almost (if not all) the names listed as narraters, how the hell I can know that they never lied in their day to day live during all the years they lived?, in fact I will even fail to know that about a known living human, imagine now someone unknown to me who lived 1400 before me, their science of hadith is nothing but Tom and Jerry crap, and if I give it a higher level then it won't pass Barbir crap and if it did then it has to be Jerry's crap
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good evening all

Hope you found this research is interesting, I indeed found it so, I always wanted to do so, to go through most of the hadith in all these books while taking notes then say something about it, this is a must now to defend myself against the accusation †that is commonly said to me, that Ií m a †Kafir because I reject those books, they indeed need to manipulate the fact that I donít reject any saying by anything even Darwin and the Bible as long as it does not contradict the Quran and as long as it makes sense of course, on the other hand they need to defend my accusation against them that they are Mushrikoon.

Let me tell everyone what I reject again, it is putting all those sayings in books, this actually contradict the facts the Muslims should believe in regarding the Quran, for all the ORAL hearsay, I have absolutely no problem with that, I know at the end of the day that it is nothing but hearsay that I will never be able to prove in this life. And accepting or rejecting any of it is solely to the individuals. †

When I looked at the index of the 13 sub chapters under the main chapter the Prayer, I discovered that I missed the first sub chapter, I believe it is due to the fact that it has no name rather chapter, in Arabic it is called Baab as seen in the following image from Ibn Magih hearsay and conjectures book:



The above nameless sub chapter about the Prayer has 2 hadith in it as seen above, here is the first hadith:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Mohammed Ibn Al Sabbah & Ahmed Ibn Sannan <-- Ishaq Ibn Yusuf Al Azraq <-- Suffian H <-- Ali Ibn Maimoon Alraqi <-- Mukhallad Ibn Yazid <-- Suffian <-- Alqamah Ibn Murttad <-- Solaiman Ibn Baridah <-- Baridah:

The saying of Baridah (Solaiman Ibn Baridahís Father) goes like this:
A man came to the prophet salla Allah Alaihi wa sallam and asked him about the time of the prayer, then he said, (the prophet) then prayed with us for two days, when the sun has risen up, he ordered Bilal to call for the prayer of Zuhr, then he ordered him to call for the prayer of Asr while the sun was up, white and clear, then he ordered him to call for Al Maghrib prayer when the sun set and when the last light disappeared he ordered him to call for the Isha prayer, and when the dawn came he ordered him to call for salat Al Fajr, the prophet said where is the questioner who asked about the prayer time, the man said: Iím O Rasool Allah, the prophet said: your prayer is in between (these times).

The hadith above is good indeed, but not perfect, it tells us the 5 praying times roughly. NOT AS WE CALCULATE THEM NOW DAYS. As well we can read the exact names of all 5 prayers Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha, it was also an explanation from the prophet to someone who came and asked him such question, however the prophet did not really answer straight away with a saying, rather HE STAYED WITH THEM FOR 2 DAYS, PRAYING WITH THEM 2 x 5 SALATS A DAY, THAT IS WHAT IS CALLED THE PRACTICAL SUNNAH, see what Iím talking about, it is like how my son is learning the prayer from me, he was duplicating the moves on the times I pray, the prophet was an Imam (prayeing in frnt of them ) to them and doing the exact same but he only needed 2 days to teach some bunch of adults, then he elaborated that the times of each prayer extends in between adjacent ones.

But keep in mind that the above hadith NEVER STATED HOW TO PRAY EACH ONE, NEITHER IT TOLD US HOW MANY RAKAA EACH ONE IS, you know why?, because that part must be practical, i.e. seeing how he did then they learnt from him by duplicating the moves and sayings and because it is an act that is done 5 times a day, it will be so easy to be remembered from the moment it was learnt, NO BOOKS ARE REQUIRED TO TEACH US HOW TO PRAY unless it is for a new comer to Islam at a late age, and even in this case they donít read the books of hadith to learn how to pray, rather a tiny booklet that is max 5 to 10 pages with the instructions to how to pray, these booklets are for those who missed out on being raised in such practising environment to learnt it automatically

And here is the second and last hadith in this nameless sub chapter:


Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Muhammed Ibn Ramh Al Masri <-- Al Layth Ibn Saad <-- Ibn Shihab

The allegation continues that Ibn Shihab was sitting somehwre with Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz, within his state, and Arwa Ibn Alzubair, was with him, and when Omar (I assume Omar Ibn Al Khataab) delayed the Asr prayer, Arwa said to him (to Omar): Isnít that Jibreel came down and prayed in front of Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam , Omar said to him: Know what you say O Arwa.

Then all †of a sudden the chain of hearsayers continues, very confusing indeed, it goes like this: <-- Bashir Ibn Abi Masood <-- Aba Masood <-- Rasool Allah salla Allah alaihi wa sallam said:


The saying of Rasool Allah goes like this:

Jibreel came down then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him, then I prayed with him. He (Rasool Allah) was pointing to it using his 5 fingers

Despite the confusion in the chain of hearsayers, the hadith above confirms that learning the Salat was indeed nothing but practical, see how Jibreel prayed in front of the prophet the 5 times, exactly as the prophet taught the man and all with him who asked him about the time of the prayer, sure the above hadith does not tell us any time nor even the names of the prayers, it still never told us how many Rakaa and how we should do them, again this is because it is all practical and will be learnt automatically and never be forgotten by those who do it 5 times a day

Despite I accept the two messages above, yet the 2 hadith have very little merit to be put in a book, this is because what the people back then learnt from them is only the following:

1) The prayers are 5 times a day, Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha
2) The rough times for each one of those 5 prayers

Can you see that I used the words (the people back then) , this is because I learnt nothing from those hadith, I already know that the prayer are 5 times a day and Icertainly know the name of each one. I even work out their times far more accurate and per day unlike the people back then.

What I mean that when the prophet PRACTICALLY learnt how to pray †from Jibreel, he (the prophet) †on his part taught the people how to pray by being a practical example to them as Jibreel was a practical example to him, and from all those believing people, their progenies must automatically and practically learn how to pray. Remember how my son is automatically learning how to pray from me.

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

Today, I would like to discuss two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The third sub chapter is named The time of Zuhr prayer, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



I will actually talk briefly about those 4 hadith as I need to do the same with the Prayer chapter in Bukhari book

-> The first hadith # 665 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that the prophet prayed salat al Zuhr when the sun was up and hot, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is.

> The second hadith # 666 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who also called salat al Zuhr by another name salat al Hajeer that the prophet prayed salat al Zuhr when the sun was up and hot, almost identical context to the previous hadith, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is.

> The third hadith # 667 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone  that the sahaba complained to the prophet that praying during noon time is tough due to the hot sun, the hadith alleges that the sahabaís complaint was ignored by the prophet, very strange hadith I have to say, but what we can be assured of that such hadith has nothing concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is. It only tells us about the rants by the sahaba regarding how tough it is to pray when the sun is up and hot. Remember when they also ranted about praying in such darkness as we read in the chapter regarding the time of dawn prayer, very funny indeed.

-> > The fourth hadith # 668 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an identical context to hadith # 667, it confirms the rants of the sahaba regarding praying in hot weather during noon time while the sun is up and hot. It also confirms that the prophet ignored their complaint.

Here you have it brothers and sisters, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Zuhr.

The fourth sub chapter is named Cooling down during Zuhr prayer when it is hot, obviously this sub chapter is dedicated to replying to the sahaba rants about praying Zuhr when it is hot, despite the two hadith # 668 & 667 alleged that the prophet ignored their complaint.  This sub chapter has 5 hadith in it as seen below, sounds like it wonít have anything concerning how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is:



-> The first hadith # 669 is an alleged saying by the prophet and it alleges that the prophet said that when it is hot, we should try to seek cool areas to pray or delay our prayer a bit in such hot time, it is also alleged that the prophet said that the hot weather is part of hell, sort of that is why they should seek cool areas to pray r even delay it until it cools down.

Very logical indeed, it does not really need rocket science of hadith nor it even needed an explanation by the great prophet, this is because Allah clearly said in the Quran that He made the religion easy on us. All those hadith about the sahaba rants regarding praying in hot weather really serve nothing but portraying them as a bunch of dumb people with very low IQ, how about praying during rain then?, are there any chapters informing us with such possible rants by them?, look if we are going to rant about praying in hot weather then we should rant about praying in heavy rain.

-> The second hadith # 670 is an identical context to hadith # 669, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The third hadith # 671 is an identical context to hadith # 669 & 670, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The fourth hadith # 672 is an identical context to hadith # 669 &  670 & 671, just repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

-> The fifth hadith # 673 is almost identical context to hadith # 669 &  670 & 671 & 672, the part about hell is not mentioned,  just briefed repetitions with absolutely nothing new other than the chain of hearsayers

Again, here you have it brothers and sisters, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Zuhr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Zuhr, all we learnt is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Zuhe is roughly when the sun is up and hot
2) The sahaba ranted about praying in such hot weather
3) The prophet ignored them first then later on replied to them by advising them to seek cool areas or even delay it a bit until it cools down, the reason given is because the hot weather is part of hell and they should avoid it

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baal
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 445



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,
[/quote]

Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,


Baal wrote:
Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.


Fine, I accept your argument

but I still wonder why they didn't use the word fajr despite the Quran used it

salam


_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
 
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum