FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  Who is OnlineWho is Online   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
  • Welcome
  • Guest

  • Main Menu
  • Sticky Articles
  • Open Support Tickets
Sunan Ibn Magih
Page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Baal
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 445



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
in fact this hadith may cause confusion because it referred to salat al Fajr as salat Al Subh, and let me tell you that for an average Arab, the Subh is not the Fajr,


Baal wrote:
Subh is morning and fajr is pre-Dusk.

Having camped in the Desert for couple weeks, I remember that we had to wake up really early because between 10:00 to 2:00, the temperature is unbearable. So you should not assume that for an Arab back then, his 'subh - morning' was the same as ours today. There day just naturally started before our day in the present.


Fine, I accept your argument

but I still wonder why they didn't use the word fajr despite the Quran used it

salam

Not sure why. also it seems that Fajr was a pre-dawn event as people moved while it is still dark.

Btw I only found Three type of prayers talked about in the koran, not Five. Is there more then Three?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
Btw I only found Three type of prayers talked about in the koran, not Five. Is there more then Three?


well, this is a big subject and I debated it with the free minders years ago, firstly I don't care how many salat a day, it is logical the more the better, I also agree that the Quran implies 3 salat a day more than 5 salat a day, however I decided to follow the hearsay about the prophet regardimg the salat, this is because if Allah ordered 3 and I'm praying 5 then no damage can happen especially the other two was done by the prophet as alleged, at the end of the day we pray the 5 times to Allah and not to Mohammed


I consider the salat is †a major subject that the propeht had to explain to how it is done and therefore I decided to follow such hearsay about him and in no way this can make me a Mushrik

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

Today, I will discuss the next two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The fifth sub chapter is named The time of Asr prayer, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> The first hadith # 674 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that the prophet prayed salat al Asr when the sun was up and hot, †the hadith did not differentiate between the time of the previous salat (salat al Zuhr) and the time of salat al Asr, both are said to be done when the sun is up and hot, nothing concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Asr is.

> The second hadith # 675 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who this time suggested that the prophet prayed salat al Asr when the sun was in the room, sort of perpendicular to such room, i.e. no shade appeared in the room, very funny indeed, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, yet it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Zuhr is. And that is when the sun is in the room, haha

The sixth sub chapter is named Keeping up the Asr prayer , again sounds like it wonít have anything concerning how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is, it has three hadith in it:



-> The first hadith # 676 is an alleged saying by the prophet and it alleges that the prophet said regarding the enemy who fought against the believers in †the battle of Khandaq, that Allah has filled their homes and graves with fire because they made the believers miss salat al Asr.

-> The second hadith # 677 is an alleged saying by the prophet, it is alleged that he said: Whoever miss out on salat al Asr, it is as if he lost his family and his money.

-> The third hadith # 678 is identical context to hadith # 676, it confirms what it was alleged that the prophet said: Allah filled the homes and graves of al Mushrikoon with fire because they imprisoned the believers during al Asr prayer and only let them free after the sun has set

Again, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Asr nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Asr, in fact the time of salat al Asr in the above hadith is almost identical as the time stated for salat al Zuhr, when the sun is up and hot, all we learnt from these 4 is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Asr is roughly when the sun is up and hot or when it is in the room (sort of perpendicular with no shade for the objects in the room)
2) Allah filled the homes and graves of the enemy of Islam during the battle of Khandaq with fire because they caused the believers to miss salat al Asr
3) Whoever misses salat al Asr is as though he lost his family and his money.

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BMZ
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 436



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?


lol!

I could not resist, Ahmed. Well asked.

Sometimes, I wonder why did they choose the word Science to go with Hadith. Could have gone for the Art of Hadith or the History of Hadith or the Art of Interpretation of Hadith.

BMZ
 Smile
_________________
Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Baal
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 445



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
and what is the practicing of the science of hadith if you don't mind?


lol!

I could not resist, Ahmed. Well asked.

Sometimes, I wonder why did they choose the word Science to go with Hadith. Could have gone for the Art of Hadith or the History of Hadith or the Art of Interpretation of Hadith.

BMZ
 Smile

That question had been answered. You would be well advised for the sake of your credibility to reply to its answer or accept this statement as retracted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

In this comment inshaalllah, I will go through the next two sub chapters of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book

The seventh sub chapter is named The time of Maghrib prayer, it has 3 hadith in it as seen below:



-> The first hadith # 679 is not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone that they used to pray al Maghrib salat with Rasool Allah then when any of them finish and leave he just look at where they dropped their arrows, absolute non sense to be honest, as well it has nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, yet it did not even tell us when ROUGHLY salat al Maghrib †is.

> The second hadith # 680 is also not a saying by the prophet rather an allegation by someone who alleged that he prayed salah al Maghrib with the prophet when the sub has disappeared, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Maghrib is. And that is when the sun disappears in the horizon

> The third hadith # 681 is an alleged saying by the prophet it is alleged that he said that his ummah will be doing great if they donít delay al Maghrib prayer till the plenty of stars are visible in the sky. This alleged hadith is nothing but an advice not to delay al Maghrib prayer, it has nothing concerning how to pray it nor how many rakaa it is neither the exact time to pray salat al Maghrib.

The eighth sub chapter is named The time of Isha prayer, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



> The first hadith # 682 is an alleged saying by the prophet, it is alleged that he said that if he does not desire to make hard on his ummah he would have commanded them to delay salat al Isha, absolutely nothing in this hadith, not even an advice because the prophet DECLINED to pass on such advice so he does not make it hard on the ummah, also nothing concerning how to pray salat al Isha nor how many rakaa it is neither what time it starts and ironically to what time the ummah should delay if it was commanded by the prophet to do so.

> The second hadith # 683 is an alleged saying by the prophet, †it is actually an alleged elaboration by the prophet regarding to what time he would have commanded them to delay salat al Isha (however he declined to issue such command to make it easy on the ummah), †in this hadith it is alleged that the prophet said he would have commanded the ummah to delay the Isha prayer to 1/3 of the night time or to Ĺ of the night time. Nor sure what is the point of mentioning to be 1/3 or Ĺ if it is alleged that the prophet declined to issue such command, well, what Iím looking for is how to pray salat al Isha and how many rakaa it is, is that something we will find in Ibn Magih book? So far we have seen nothing and we already discussing the fifth prayer.

> The third hadith # 684 is not a saying by the prophet, rather an allegation by someone who alleged that the prophet one night †delayed salah al Isha up to the middle of the night, but still nothing concerning how to pray salat al Maghrib nor how many rakaa it is, it only tells us ROUGHLY when salat al Isha is.

> The fourth hadith # 685 is an alleged saying by the prophet, †it has similar context to the above 3 hadith (682 Ė 684), in effect it has almost nothing new but more elaboration to why the prophet declined to issue such command of delaying salat al Isha till the middle of the night, in this hadith.it is alleged that the prophet worry regarding imposing such hardship was only regarding the sick and weak and because of both he declined to make it a command for all the believers.

What did we learn from the above 4 hadith regarding the time of salat al Isha?, absolutely nothing but an allegation that the prophet does not want the believers to take him as an example regarding the delay of the Isha prayer, see when the Isha payer is delayed it does not mean that we will watch TV until the middle of the night †then we pray salat al Isha and sleep, it does not make sense such way and delaying the Isha prayer will look very funny indeed, what it means that the believers pray most of the night then end it with salat al Isha before going to sleep, that is what the prophet was ordered to do, letís have as look:

1: O you who have wrapped up in your garments!
2: Rise to pray in the night except a little,
3: Half of it, or decrease from it a little,
4: Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited.
5: Surely We will make to light upon you a weighty Word.
6: Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech.

[The Quran ; 73:1-6]

يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُزَّمِّلُ (1)
قُمِ اللَّيْلَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا (2)
نِصْفَهُ أَوِ انقُصْ مِنْهُ قَلِيلًا (3)
أَوْ زِدْ عَلَيْهِ وَرَتِّلِ الْقُرْآنَ تَرْتِيلًا (4)
إِنَّا سَنُلْقِي عَلَيْكَ قَوْلًا ثَقِيلًا (5)
إِنَّ نَاشِئَةَ اللَّيْلِ هِيَ أَشَدُّ وَطْءًا وَأَقْوَمُ قِيلًا (6)

-> See how the prophet was ordered to pray most of the night: Rise to pray in the night except a little , Or add to it, and recite the Quran as it ought to be recited , this is because praying at night: Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech..

The 4 hadith regarding the time of Isha prayer as seen in Ibn Magih book, must contradict the above verses in two aspects:

1) Praying most of the night was an order from Allah Himself to the prophet. Consequently it has to be an order to all his followers, while this is not always the case as some commands from Allah were specific to the prophet alone, in this case, we are talking praying at night because : Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech. as stated by Allah
2) We are ordered by Allah to take the prophet as an Iswa Hassnah and in this case what better example than praying most of the night because : Surely the rising by night is the firmest way to tread and the best corrective of speech.
3) The four hadith never implied that delaying al Isha prayer was not preferred for only the sick and the weak rather the context of all 4 hadith imply that it was not commanded for all, regardless being sick or weak, despite the clear fact that the weak and the sick are in desperate need for Allah help, so instead of staying most of the night praying for Allah to give them health and strength it is alleged that the prophet said that it is better for them to sleep most of the night instead spending it praying to Allah then ending it with salat al Isha

Again, nothing we learnt about how to pray salat al Isha nor how many rakaa it is and most importantly there is nothing accurate regarding the time of salat al Isha, all we learnt from these 4 is the followings:

1) The time of salat al Isha is roughly at night.
2) The prophet desired to command the believers to delay salat al Isha till the middle of the night but he declined to do so fearing the hardship upon the sick and the weak

See you soon with the next sub chapter of the Prayer chapter from Ibn Magih hearsay book inshaalllah

Salam
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

The next 5 sub chapters in the prayer chapter in Ibn Magih book are not titled to relate to any salat of the 5, I guess those chapters will be talking salat in general, Iím crossing my fingers that we will find what we are looking for which is how to pray each salat of the five salat and how many rakaa each one is?

The ninth sub chapter is named The time of the prayer in cloudy days, it has 1 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 686 is an alleged saying by the prophet, the message in there is simply to pray each salat earlier in cloudy days, this is because they wonít be able to see the sun and judge the tough times of the 5 salat, the hadith continued with a reason to why the prophet said so, it is alleged that he said: so we avoid missing al Asr prayer because whoever misses al Asr prayer, his/her good work will be nullified

Well, it will make more sense to pray earlier in cloudy days if the reason is, not to miss any prayer of the five prayers (not just al Asr prayer as alleged above), the above is a bit silly because it indirectly implies that it is ok to miss any salat but salat as Asr, and it also implies that in a cloudy days many Muslims who failed to work out the times and missed on al Asr prayer must have their good deed nullified, does not sound fair to me. †

Letís move on to sub chapter no. 10, it is named Whoever sleeps while missing a prayer or forgetting it, it has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 687 is an alleged saying by the prophet, he was asked: what the people should do if they miss a prayer?, the prophet replied to pray it if it is remembered. I say that is logical and needs no rocked science of hadith to figure it out, nor it is required to be documented in a book next to Allah book, I grew up knowing automatically to pray those salat that I missed, and surely I will only be able to do that if I remember that I missed a salat, SEE, it is not like I will pray missing salat while I canít remember that I missed one, the hadith above is simply fruitless

-> Hadith # 688 is identical to hadith # 687, both are useless and fruitless

-> Hadith # 689 is a questionable hadith, not strange if it goes back to Abu Hurairah, the most doubtful muhaddith according to their hadith, let me bring this hadith in here:



Source

The chain of hearsayers goes like this:
Harmalah Ibn Yahya <-- Abdullah Ibn Wahb <-- Yunis <-- Ibn Shihab †<-- Saeed Ibn Almuseeb <-- Abu Hurairah said:

I wonít translate this very long and boring story that is alleged by Abu Hurairah, it is simply based on the previous two hadith that we should pray any salat that we miss as long as we remember that we missed one. Now leaving aside the details of Jerry Springer type story alleged by Abu Hurairah and just concentrate on the last bit Abu Hurairah said:

Abu Hurairah stated at the end that after the prophet stated to pray any missing salat if we remember it, he read the following Quran verse as a confirmation to what the prophet said:

Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, therefore serve Me and keep up the prayer for My remembrance

[The Quran ; 20:14]

إِنَّنِي أَنَا اللَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا أَنَا فَاعْبُدْنِي وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِذِكْرِي (14)


-> See how Abu Hurairah is confusing matters with each other, he was a professional doing so, the verse above is from the story of Musa, it is what Allah said to Musa when He spoke directly to him, this is what Allah said: Surely I am Allah, there is no god but I, then Allah added the following: فَاعْبُدْنِي وَأَقِمِ الصَّلَاةَ لِذِكْرِي , Fa Obuddni Wa Aqim Al Salat Li Zikri, i.e. therefore serve Me and keep up the prayer for My remembrance , the two underlined ĎIí means the word: MY, i.e. we keep up the prayer for THE REMEMBERANCE OF ALLAH, Abu Hurairah however is alleging that the above verse means the REMEMBERANCE OF THE PRAYER, this is just an absolute non sense, I canít believe that many Muslim buy such rubbish by Abu Hurairah

The above hadith has to be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) It created confusion by linking †praying the missed salat when we remember that we missed one to verse 20:14 which is talking about keeping up the prayer for the Remembrance of †ALLAH.
2) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah and again who was accused of lying about the prophet by Omar Ibn Alkhattab †and by Aysha according to the many allegations and conjectures we read in such books

-> Hadith # 690 is almost identical to hadith # 687 & 688, all are useless and fruitless, this hadith however adds more questions to the subject of missing the salat, the allegation in this haidth goes like this: some sahaba went to the prophet asking him of their status because they sleep a lot until the sun is up in the sky, indirectly †they are saying that they sleep excessively and miss salat al Fajr (this is obvious from their saying that they sleep until the sun is up), it is alleged that the prophet told them that they are not being excessive in their sleep rather the humans are excessive in their (wake time), i.e. during the day time while they are awake because they miss the salat while they are awake, then he added that they should pray the missed salat if they remember it and even suggested to pray it with the same time salat in the following day.

The hadith above must be questionable because how come they claimed to sleep all night until the sun is up then the prophet tell them that it is ok to do that, obviously they were admitting their TAFREET in their sleep, i.e. missing the salat during such time, the hadith can never imply that they prayed al Fajr prayer then they over slept until the sun is up, this is because they missed on nothing if they prayed al Fajr prayer before they went to bed, see, they must have been doing something wrong, that is why they asked the prophet for a clarification, now when it is alleged that the prophet clarified their confusion, we see that more confusion been added, the prophet told them no TAFREET in their sleep, despite they missed on salat al Fajr, and despite they waked up when the sun is up, it implies that they have enough time to make salat al Zuhr, i.e. they missed on nothing and they needed no clarificstion in such case. It has to be salat al Fajr that they missed and that was due to their excessive sleep according to their own admission, on the other hand, the hadith implies that the prophet was ok with that. Simply the hadith is very confusing and has absolutely no value as far as the prayer in concerned.

Finally, as we have seen so far, absolutely nothing we learnt to how we pray nor how many rakaa each prayer of the five is, I wonder why al Mushrikoon keep claiming that the hadith books are required to know how to pray, well there are 3 sub chapters left in the whole prayer chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book, hopefully we will learn how to pray and how many rakaa each salat is in those 3 sub chapters

Salam all
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam all

In this comment inshaallah we will finish the walkthrough of the last three sub chapters in the prayer chapter in Ibn Magih hearsay book. By then everyone with a working brain should recognise if the whole chapter in such book was/is required for the believers to learn how to pray each salat of the five as well learn how many rakaa each one is

The eleventh sub chapter is named The time of the prayer during urgent affairs in life, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 691 is an alleged saying by the prophet, the hearsay goes back to the doubtful Abu Hurairah, it simply alleges that the prophet said whoever catches one rakaa from Asr prayer before the sun sets then he/she missed nothing, same with Subh (Fajr) prayer, if any catches one rakaa before the sun rises then they missed on nothing

Well, it is obvious to understand that, people with brains donít really need anyone to explain them such situation of urgency that caused a believer to delay the salat until the last minute and while praying the first rakaa in such salat the time for the next salat started, in such case the believer missed on nothing because he/she managed to start the salat before the next salat time starts. I also donít mind to accept such elaboration by the prophet BUT ONLY if it is alleged that he said so regarding each salat of the five, however the hearsay above is only specific to two salat of the five (Subh or Fajr & Asr), how about the other three prayers (Zuhr, Maghrib & Isha)?, well it is logical to treat all as such, now I have to ask why it is alleged that the prophet only talked about two?, I honestly have to say this:

The hadith above must be dismissed for the following reasons:

1) While the message in it is logical, it still creates confusion because now we donít know what our status would be if we catch a rakaa from (Zuhr or Maghrib or Isha) then the time for the next prayer started while continuing the rest of the rakaas
2) It goes back to a doubtful man named Abu Hurairah, whom we can never know if he was really good or bad, we can only look at the evidences, ironically it is their man made hadith books that makes such man integrity questionable, at least he never listened to the alleged prophet advice to NOT TO TALK A LOT ABOUT HIM, Abu Hurairah however ignored that and indulged himself in thousands of hearsay, conjectures and allegations about our great prophet, that is why he was accused of lying against the prophet by both Omar and Aysha, in fact he (Abu Hurairah) refrained himself from talking as such during the life of Omar and when Omar died, Abu Hurairah went berserk inventing thousands of hearsay against the great and honoured prophet, it was Abu Hurairah admission that many of the hearsay he said would have never been said by him if Omar was alive (he was a coward as well), I will try to find it later for you inshaalllah  

-> Hadith # 692 is an alleged saying by the prophet through Aysha and is identical to the previous hadith nothing new but new chain of hearsayers, for me I still have to dismiss such hadith because (at least) reason 2 presented above regarding hadith # 691

the bottom line is this, I donít need others to tell me that I missed on nothing in my prayers if I started any prayer then the next prayer time started while I have not finished the one Iím doing, IT IS LOGICAL TO BE SUCH CASE, on the other hand the above two hadith # 691 & 692 failed to tell us that it is the case with all five prayers, it only mentioned two of the 5 prayers, it makes you really wonder and possibly get confused, is it only a special case for these two prayers (Fajr & Asr), i.e. if we started any of the following prayers (Zuhr, Maghrib or Isha) and the next salat time started while we have not finished the one we are doing then it is nullified, SEE WHAT IíM TALKING ABOUT, the two hadith above confused a matter that should be logically understood.

Letís move on to sub chapter no. 12, it is named Prohibiting the sleep before the Isha prayer as well prohibiting any talk after finishing it, well, I have to say that this chapter must make 90% of all Muslims GUILTY of not obeying the prophet by talking with others after they finished salat al Isha, letís see how this suppose to work,  this sub chapter has 4 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 693 is not an alleged saying by the prophet, rather someone is alleging that the prophet PREFERRED not to sleep before salat al Isha and when he finished it he PREFERRED not to talk to any one after it, very strange indeed, how they can be sure that he did so every night?, did he talk to any family member (like his wives) after he finished praying salat al Isha? Most certainly he must have done so many nights the least, now we need some hearsay to tell us when we are allowed to talk to others and whom we should talk to after we finish salat al Isha, I doubt we find such hadith, this is because the hadith above does not make any sense to be applied to every believer, I do understand that it may apply to the prophets but the prophet must had special circumstances when he had to talk to his family members  after he finished salat al Isha, see how Ibn Magih titled such sub chapter: Prohibiting the sleep before the Isha prayer as well prohibiting any talk after finishing it, SEE HOW IBN MAGIH USED THE WORD Al Nahai, i.e. Prohibiting, same word used in the Quran as seen in the following verse:

Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil):

[The Quran ; 59:7]

مَّا أَفَاء اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْقُرَى فَلِلَّهِ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينِ وَابْنِ السَّبِيلِ كَيْ لَا يَكُونَ دُولَةً بَيْنَ الْأَغْنِيَاء مِنكُمْ وَمَا آتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُوا وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ (7)

-> The above verse is one of the jokers Al Mushrikoon use against those holding firm to the Quran and follow no sect, see these words at the end of the verse: وَمَا آتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانتَهُوا , Wa Ma Atakum Al Rasool Fa Khuzuh Wa Ma Nahakum Anahu Fa Intahu, i.e. and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, , this is exactly what they have to do, to take such sentence of the whole verse and present it alone as if it is independent of what is before it, which is in the same verse, despite the verse above is clear that the prophet was sort of dividing some money or assets obtained from some enemy and within such context then: whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, Ibn Magih though used the word Nahai in the title of sub chapter 12 as if the prophet prohibited sleeping before salat al Isha as well prohibited talking after it, even if the hadith above is true, IT WAS ONLY A PREFERENCE not A LAW, the prophet PREFERRED (Ysttahib) to do so.

-> Hadith # 694 is another useless hadith, it is yet another allegation about the prophet, not a saying by him, this time it is alleged to be by Aysha, and she just repeated the allegation about him in the previous hadith that the prophet never slept before salat al Isha nor he talked after it. I wonder why a wife says so about the prophet?, I guess if the hadith is truthful and he (the prophet) talked with her in any night after he prayed salat al Isha then she must have lied which I doubt to be the case. See how confusing such hadith are.

-> Hadith # 695  is yet another allegation about the prophet, not a saying by him, this time it is alleged by others that the prophet faulted those who talked to each other after they finished salat al Isha. Does not sound like a law to me rather SOMETHING THAT IS MUSTTAHAB i.e. something that is PREFERRRED

Here you have brothers and sisters, why Ibn Magih named this sub chapter using the word Al Nahai, The Prohibition about something that was never prohibited by the prophet?, sounds like those who invent laws that were never sanctioned by Allah nor even sanctioned by His prophet, no wonder he has to call it Sunnan Ibn Magih, i.e. The Sunnan of Ibn Magih, i.e. it was his sunnah not the sunnah of Mohammed and most certainly not the sunnah of Allah

Letís move on to the last sub chapter named The prohibition of saying the prayer of the darkness, it has 2 hadith in it as seen below:



-> Hadith # 696  is an allegation by the prophet, sort of an advice not to call salat al Isha as salat al Atma (I.e the prayer of the darkness), the reason the prophet gave was simply, al Araab call it salat al Atma and we should not let them to beat us by changing its name from Isha to Atma, it seems that this hadith implies that al Araab are not the Arabs, possibly some tribes who live in the Arab area and speak an accent of Arabic, regardless of that, the prophet in this hadith prohibited nothing, rather an advise not to call salat al Isha by another name as al Araab do.

-> Hadith # 697  is an allegation by the prophet that goes back to the doubtful Abu Hurairah, it is almost identical to the above hadith but this time Abu Haurairah said it in a way that covers all 5 prayers, i.e. we should not call any of the five prayers other names as the Araab do, then someone named Ibn Harmalah added to what Abu Hurairah said that it is salat al Isha only, sort of he corrected Abu Hurairah that the alleged hadith by the prophet only specific to salat al Isha

Well, this final sub chapter must cause confusion because the prophet and his sahaba were calling salat al Fajr by another name which is salat al Subh as we learnt from Ibn Magih book, is it ok not to call salat al Isha by other name while calling salat al Fajr by other names?, how about the other 3 prayers, can we call any of it by other names, in fact it is alleged that the sahaba were calling salat Al Zuhr as salat Al Hajeer, what is all that confusion man, indeed we learnt almost nothing, most importantly we learnt nothing regarding how to pray any of the five salat nor  how may rakaa each prayer is.

Can you see brothers and sisters that the all 13 sub chapters have absolutely nothing but confusion, I really donít think that all these salat hadith in Ibn Magih book were/are required, it seems he was one of those looking for fame being called a Muhaddith or a hadith collector, donít forget that Ibn Magiih and his likes are part of the hearsay chain.

I seek refuge in Allah

Salam all


_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> Hadith and Sunnah All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3
 
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum