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AhmedBahgat
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:34 am Post subject:

ixolite wrote:

noncredo wrote:

ixolite wrote:

noncredo wrote:

Uhhhh...your god and the Muslim god are the same.

Just because there are two bloodthirsthy gods does not make them one and the same.

True, but in this case they are. Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the god of Abraham.

Jews and Christians worship YHVH, mohammedans worship Allah. Two different gods.

hahaha, what an idiot

why donlt you tell us what YHWH means?
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And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]

Baal
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:

noncredo wrote:

Abraham had two sons that tie into all three ‘Abrahamic’ religions. Isaac is traditionally viewed as the father of the Jews. Christians are an off shoot of the Jewish traditions. Ishmael is traditionally seen as the father of the Arabs, including Muhammad. Adam, Noah and Moses are also common to all three religions.

Now I’ll admit I haven’t read every book on Christianity, Judaism or Islam, but a great number of believers from all three camps agree that it is the same god and since I really have no pony in that race, I see no reason to disagree with them. From the reading I have done, they do seem to share a common source, and that common source is Abraham.

In my opinion, they all worship a fictional character. One blood thirsty, misogynistic, genocidal, jealous, vengeful, fictional character is just as good as another blood thirsty, misogynistic, ….You get the point.

Not really Noncredo, I do not get the point.

One Bloodthirsty god is not the same as another.
Allah is not Kali.
Allah is not Quetzokental.
The Muslim God called Allah is not the same 'god - ilah' as the Christians' god.

The Christian Jesus is not the same Jesus as the Jehovah's Witness.

It does not matter how long and how often an Aztec warrior will jump and claim his God and Allah is the same.

It does not matter how long and how high a Jehovah's Witness will jump and claim his Jesus is the same Christian Jesus.

Cheers,

noncredo

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:12 am Post subject:

Baal wrote:

noncredo wrote:

Well let me elaborate then. I don’t care whose name one puts on the supernatural being, in the end it is still an unproven idea that people throughout history have been willing to die for, to kill for, to grovel before, etc.

At its base, I believe all deities are an attempt at explaining the unknown. Throughout history, man has had an insatiable desire to know…well everything. Before astronomy, humans explained the sun moon and stars using deities. Before we understood weather we blamed atmospheric phenomena on the gods, before geology earthquakes were some deity or others displeasure, or sport, or lovemaking session.

And this is why I believe all deities are the same. We may have different names for them, and we may have different images for them, different ways to worship them, but they are all devised as an attempt to explain the unknown.
_________________
Douglas Admas- "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously."

ronyvo

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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject:

noncredo wrote:

Interesting, I've never read The Satanic Verses. I'll have to go look for it. To be honest, I never delved that deep into Islam, just read the Koran. Maybe my arguments were born from my ignorance of the religion and it’s roots. I do appreciate the new perspective and look forward to learning something I may not have known.

I appreciate your honesty.
Here are some surahs (verses) from the Koran for your information and as a starter for your own research:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4

Mohammad said (Hadith):
“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” 9:57
“The best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and his apostle, is to participate in Jihad and Allah’s cause.” 1:25
”No Muslim should be killed for killing a kafir (infidel.” 9:50
“Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse.” 7:30
“After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women”. 7:33

“O who you believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur’an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most forbearing.” 5:101
“Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers” 5:102

I have been accused of bigotry and hate towards Muslims.
As I said many times I do not hate Muslims or any one, I despise Islam for what it teaches.
As a proof, I cited surahs (verses) from the Koran. I did NOT add one word of mine, and NO translation of mine.
LET THE READERS BEWARE.

ronyvo

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject:

AhmedBahgat wrote:

ixolite wrote:

noncredo wrote:

ixolite wrote:

noncredo wrote:

Uhhhh...your god and the Muslim god are the same.

Just because there are two bloodthirsthy gods does not make them one and the same.

True, but in this case they are. Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the god of Abraham.

Jews and Christians worship YHVH, mohammedans worship Allah. Two different gods.

hahaha, what an idiot

why don't you tell us what YHWH means?

Isn't that typical from Muslims?! Name calling, slurs.
why can't you people be a little civilized?
I know it is hard for you if you follow your leader Mohammad.

ronyvo

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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject:

noncredo wrote:

Baal wrote:

noncredo wrote:

With all due respect, nonccredo.
Definitley, not ALL deities are the same. This is not even logic.

Refering to your point that Allah of the Muslims is the same to the God of the Christians and Jews, I have explained with proofs that they are not.
Your point of the violence in the OT and the Koran are the same, they are not.
Please, consider the following:
- The violence in the OT was as a result of the continuous disobedience and evil acts of God’s people. He (God) was punishing His people.
- In some cases people were acting, on their own and committing all kinds of wicked and evil acts, which God has nothing to do with.
- God tried everything to bring His people to worshiping Him alone. He sent to them many prophets. He gave them guidelines (The Ten Commandments). Still they disobeyed Him Grossly. He was extremely patient. He kept trying for thousands of years.
SO, GOD PUNISHED HIS PEOPLE WHO DISOBYED HIM AND COMMITED ALL KINDS OF SIN.
- While, Allah (Mohammad’s god, the moon god) instructs his followers to be judges and executors:
“Apostle, rouse the believers to fight.” 8:64
“Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.” 2:191 The Muslim advocates in the West are saying that this pertain to self-defense. Well, keep reading.
“Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day…and fight People of the Book (Jews and Christians), who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior.” 9:29. This is still happening today in some Islamic countries.
Here are more surahs to prove that Islam is violent and evil:
4:76,4:74,8:12-13,8:39,9:37,0:73,9:123,9:111
I guess, by now we all know about JIHAD.
Muslims called me a liar. My answer is: those surahs, are they in the Koran or not? If they are, then the Koran is a big lie and not I.
My main English source is a translation done by 2 Saudi scholars in Saudi Arabia, THE NOBLE KORAN. Since I know Arabic and English I can say that the translation is about 90% correct. For instance, some words like enkahoo, which means the “F” 4 letters word was translated to marry.

On the other hand, The New Testament, which, the Christians follow, is a refreshing teaching, full of love and peace.
The Lord Jesus Christ emphasized and demonstrated LOVE to the extent “love your enemies.” Mathew 5:43
Now, if all Christians follow Jesus’ teachings, PEACE would have spread all over the world. Which is contrary to Mohammad’s teachings. And, because Muslims are following the Koran, we are in this mess. We can see and observe the effect of it all over the world.

However, when Muslims or others try to compare the OT with the Koran as far as violence is concerned, they forget that the violent in the OT was thousands of years ago.
The violence in the Koran is followed to the present time. 2 Different eras. Islam is taking us to the barbarian era.

9/11/01 Exposed Islam to the world. Not enough, but it is a beginning.
If Muslims are ashamed of what the Koran contains, they have the choice:
Either they get out. They are here in a free country.
Or, change the Koran and eliminate the hadith, not only in the West, but also especially, in the Islamic countries.
Since, the second choice is impossible they are left with the first. Which, many Muslims are doing now.
Also, some tried to argue that since the Bible contains the Old & New testaments, Christians are responsible with the violence in the OT.
There is a thematic unity. The OT leaves us with unfulfilled prophecies, unexplained ceremonies, unsatisfied longings and as unfinished destiny. The NT fulfills, explains, satisfies and finishes all of these things.
Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” Matt 5:17
And He continues; “You have heard that it was said. ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you…whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.” Matt 5:38-39
Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.” And much more in Matthew 5, for whoever is honest and serious about finding the TRUTH.
Also, one should note the fact that Jesus did not force his teachings on His followers: “And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.” Matt 10:14
Also, “If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.” Matt 10-13
In Islam, however everything is by force. The mere relationship between man and his God is largely restricted and censored. For instance, Apostasy (leaving Islam) in Islam is punishable by death.
The sword was and is the way to spread Islam. In the West, since the sword cannot be used, all kinds of deception and cunning tactics are used and without shame. The Islamic leaders in the West are swaggers, boasters and use double standard. They depend on the ignorance of the average American of the truth about Islam.

BMZ
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Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Are you guys reviving A_B's site?

Rony,

First, the biblical Jesus did not bring anything new at all.

Second, the biblical Jesus told a big lie:

Quote:

Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.”

Where was that said in the Jewish Holy Scriptures? Where can I read that quote in the entire Old Testament and the Jewish Tanakh? That is the greatest lie told by the biblical Jesus and his followers.

Third, the god of Christianity is not the same God worshipped either by the Jews or Muslims. The Christian triune god is a monstrosity or an abomination.

The Christian god is the odd one out.

BMZ
_________________
Ali Sina:"Go to a public place, call friends with video and preferably the media as well. Then in front of everyone, remove your veil and set it on fire. Then announce in loud voice, "I am free" (Edited)

ronyvo

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Are you guys reviving A_B's site?

BMZ wrote:

Rony,

First, the biblical Jesus did not bring anything new at all.

Second, the biblical Jesus told a big lie:

Quote:

Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.”

The Christian god is the odd one out.

BMZ

BMZ, how about being civilized with each other, that if you wish to continue a dialogue.
I guess you can do that without calling Jesus a liar. Can you?

Having said that, let me respond to your points:
First, in a way you are right. Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not came to abolish but to fulfill."Mathew 5:17

However, He came for our Savation.
THIS IS IN YOUR O.T./THE TORAH.
Please, look it up yourself. IT IS THERE.

Second, what do you think when God said, "...you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth...."?

Third, we agree that the god of Muslims is not the God of Christians.
But, the God of christians is the SAME God of the jews.
Read the prophecies in your O.T./Torah.

Listen, BMZ, we have been through this kind of discussion, which does not lead us to any agreement.

Thank you.

AhmedBahgat
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Are you guys reviving A_B's site?

ronyvo wrote:

BMZ wrote:

Rony,

First, the biblical Jesus did not bring anything new at all.

Second, the biblical Jesus told a big lie:

Quote:

Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.”

The Christian god is the odd one out.

BMZ

How about the filthy kafirs dialoging with the Muslims while calling Mohammed worse than liars

it seems that you are damn confused
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]

ronyvo

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 113

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Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Are you guys reviving A_B's site?

AhmedBahgat wrote:

ronyvo wrote:

BMZ wrote:

Rony,

First, the biblical Jesus did not bring anything new at all.

Second, the biblical Jesus told a big lie:

Quote:

Also, “You have heard that it was said, ‘you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy’. But I say to you, love your enemies.”

The Christian god is the odd one out.

BMZ

How about the filthy kafirs dialoging with the Muslims while calling Mohammed worse than liars

it seems that you are damn confused

The filthy kafirs (I assume that you meant the toleratn Christians) are dialoging in factual manners, which Muslims lack groosly.

As I said many times that I feel sorry for the Muslims because the Koran does not support their claims that Islam is a peaceful and clean religion.

Is the following surahs in tahe Koran or not?????????

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4

Mohammad said (Hadith):
“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” 9:57
“The best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and his apostle, is to participate in Jihad and Allah’s cause.” 1:25
”No Muslim should be killed for killing a kafir (infidel.” 9:50
“Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse.” 7:30
“After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women”. 7:33

“O who you believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur’an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most forbearing.” 5:101
“Before you, a community asked such questions, then on that account they became disbelievers” 5:102

I have been accused of bigotry and hate towards Muslims.
As I said many times I do not hate Muslims or any one, I despise Islam for what it teaches.
As a proof, I cited surahs (verses) from the Koran. I did NOT add one word of mine, and NO translation of mine.
LET THE READERS BEWARE.

Peace.

FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT