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why dont you believe in islam?
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Baal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

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What is the name of that Islamic country in which you were born and raised? Please provide details.

Careful ishaq, I need to warn you that BMZ has a propensity for collecting information on people.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not be a muslim because I do not want to live under a single, totalitarian, fascist system that tells me what foot to use to enter a washroom and how many stones I should use to wipe my ass with.

I also observe that it is *Not* beneficial for me for only One God to exist.  I believe every sect and every religion and every person, believe in his own god. It is a pipe-dream to think that the Salafi Sunni & the Shiia & the Suffis believe in the same god. The idea of One god and One interpretation and One Sect is not beneficial for me. I prefer to have multiple governments. That way not one of them can claim superiority over me.

That way when one of them fvcks up, and they will, they always do, then another government can come up and pick up the slack.

Few years ago we had the NDP majority government in Ontario. They were good when they first came in. Two terms later they did such a bad job that in One election they ended up with up with 2% of the seats and had been in a minority government ever since.

Screw them. Can you imagine if they were ruling with the One religion? We would have never been able to get away with them. They would have activated the sword verses on their opponents (Iran style) and they still would have been in power today.

If you end up with multiple islamic government, then it is still not worth it. Because they will activate the sword verses on each other, and the most vicious will survive and then you will become his food.

On a realisttic view of the world, islamic countries had always been an example of what not to do. Why would someone who got life on Earth *so* wrong, somehow be expected to *get* the afterlife correctly. Again, screw them, they can sit and try to fix and reform and adapt their scripture, but, do we really need them? The answer is Absolutely not.

On a moral view, I am going to borrow some of Ronyvo's Koran verses and read them to you as directed at muslims. Read them and tell me if those are verses you would want anyone to believe in:


“I will instill terror into the hearts of the believers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.


“Fight against those who believe in Allah And the last day And forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  


“Fight muslims, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193

“Take not the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28


“Kill the Muslims wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5

“Fight those of the believers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123


“And whoever seeks a religion other than Hinduism, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85


“The recompense of those who wage war For Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33


“Therefore, when ye meet the believers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who believe, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the believers till they embrace Buddhism.” Surah 47:4


Mohammad did Not say (Hadith):
“Whoever changes his to the Islamic religion, kill him.” 9:57

”No Kaffir should be killed for killing a Muslim.” 9:50

“Bad omen is in  a man, the house and the horse.” 7:30


What BMZ said is correct, if you become a muslim it will close the door on shopping for other ideologies. However IMO it is not worth to shut the door on all other ideologies just by choosing the worst ideology possible we could pick.
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HomoErectus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also undersigned by HomoErectus !

.
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ronyvo



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
I answered your query by quoting the horrible surahs from the Koran.

Now, I ask you. Why do you blelieve in Islam?
I expect that you answer intellectualy.


Believing in Islam means believing in the LORD Almighty Allah. When one does that, one automatically rejects otehr concocted gods like a triune god or a man-god or a god-man or a son-god or a god-son or  ahe-god or a she-god and various deities. One chucks away all ridiculous gods. Believing in Islam also means believing in the God of Abraham, the Hebrews and the God of Moses and other prophets.

ronyvo wrote:
I was born and raised in Islamic country.
I was forced to study the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history.


Were you born into a Muslim family or into an expatriate's family?  Laughing
What is the name of that Islamic country in which you were born and raised? Please provide details.



ronyvo wrote:
The more I studied them the more I resent this evil sect.


What is a sect? Do you know what does a sect mean? Do you know the difference between a religion and a sect?

ronyvo wrote:
I consider Muslims are victims of Islam like every one else.


What makes you say that? I do not consider myself a victim of Islam and neither do the Muslims.

ronyvo wrote:
Do you like what Muslims are doing around the world?


What are they doing around the world? Please elaborate. And doing what to who?  Laughing

ronyvo wrote:
Can you swallow the slaughtering of humans like sheep? And that is for the mere reason that they are not Muslims!

Please, do not insult my intelligence by saying those terrorists (criminals) do not represent Islam.


I don't have to. You are not at all full of intelligence. Rotflmao!

Cheers
BMZ

You called me names and isulted my intillegence.
That is typical islamic.

However, your reasons for accepting Islam is, I quote you way "less intelligence".
You do not understand the Holy Trinity.
We Christians do not believe in three gods. We consider that kufr.
Mohammad made this mistake due to the herasies which were going on at his time.
I can understand that an illeterate man living in the desert to make such mistake, but you and the educated Muslims living in the 21st century and believe that, this I don't understand.


Please, read and search, you owe it to yourself:

                                               Trinity and Monotheism
The first principle of the doctrine of the Trinity is that there is only one, true, eternal, living Being who is God by nature and Maker of heaven and earth.
Trinitarians do not believe that the Father, Son and Holy Sprit are three separate gods.
“I am the Lord and there none else.” (Isa.45:18b)
“There is one God.” (1Tim.2:5)
The evidence is so overwhelming that even the demons understand that there is only one God (James 2:19). Yet, such cults as the Mormons teach that there are billions of gods.
Mohammad had the mistaken idea that the Christians worship three gods-the Father, the Mother and the Son (surah 5:73). He assumed that when Christians referred to God as “the Father”, this meant that the father was an exalted male deity who had a divine consort named Miriam. They had sexual intercourse and she conceived and gave birth to a son called Jesus. WHAT NONSENSE.
Given the pagan background of Mohammad, he erroneously assumed that the Trinity was composed of a male and female deity and that Jesus was the fruit of their sexual intercourse. What else one can expect from a man with his way of life and low level of intelligence?!
Yet the Koran states, “She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.” He said: “So (it will be) for Allah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: “Be!”-and it is.” Surah 3:47
Christians do not believe that God the Father is a male deity. They do not believe that Mary was his female consort.
He was supernaturally conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit:
Luke 1:31 “And behold, you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32”He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His Father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His kingdom will have no end.”
Christians believe: The Father (God), His Word (His Mind and Wisdom) and His Spirit (His soul) are three in One. One cannot imagine a Mighty God who created the earth and heaven and everything in them, has no mind or no soul. Christians believe in a Live God (has Spirit) and has a Mind with which He can create and control His creation.
He took flesh. He came in flesh.1 John 4:2
He took flesh from the Virgin Mary. He did not come from the seed of man. Mat 1:20 & Luke 1:34
It is a union with His Divinity without mingling, without confusion, and without alteration.
Jesus IS GOD, the only God.
That is what Christians believe for over 2000 years, REGARDLESS OF WHAT OTHERS SAY.

The union between the Word and the flesh, or the union between the Divine nature and the human body, is a real union that cannot be separated.
The rod of iron will glow if it is left in fire for a certain time, and the iron could burn. The iron neither lost its nature nor the fire. The iron is a solid mass with specific volume, shape and weight . The fire keeps its nature of glowing and burning. You cannot end the union between iron and fire as long as the iron is hot.
The Divine nature and the human body of Jesus Christ are united in the hypostasis of the Son of God. The new nature combines the properties of the Divine nature and the human flesh.
This shows another reason for the Divine incarnation as not only to dwell among us because of His love and mercy, but to partake of the lives of man because of His Divine love and kindness.
The second reason is the redemption and the salvation of man through accepting death in His flesh instead of man. He redeemed man from eternal punishment as man disobeyed the commandment. This shows the justice of God as well as His love.

By the way, this essay is a result of MY search.
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ronyvo



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

[quote="BMZ"]
ronyvo wrote:
I answered your query by quoting the horrible surahs from the Koran.



ronyvo wrote:
I was born and raised in Islamic country.
I was forced to study the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history.


Were you born into a Muslim family or into an expatriate's family?  Laughing
What is the name of that Islamic country in which you were born and raised? Please provide details.


[[What details?
An Islamic country is Islamic.  They are all the same as far as the horrbile treatment of non-Muslims.
They follow the Koran, whixh is full of kill and terrorize.
However, if you are following my posts here and everwhere else, you would know my country of birth is Egypt.
I am a Christian all my life raised in a Christian family which goes back over 2000 years.
I thank God for that.]]


ronyvo wrote:
The more I studied them the more I resent this evil sect.


What is a sect? Do you know what does a sect mean? Do you know the difference between a religion and a sect?

[[Of course, I know.
If you want to know do your own search.]]

ronyvo wrote:
I consider Muslims are victims of Islam like every one else.


What makes you say that? I do not consider myself a victim of Islam and neither do the Muslims.

[[Exactly my point.
They are uninformed, brain washed, lied to.
Why victims?
They are full of hate. The Koran and hadiths are their source of this horrible feeling.]]

ronyvo wrote:
Do you like what Muslims are doing around the world?


What are they doing around the world? Please elaborate. And doing what to who?  Laughing

[[Are you kidding?
Where do you live?]]

ronyvo wrote:
Can you swallow the slaughtering of humans like sheep? And that is for the mere reason that they are not Muslims!

Please, do not insult my intelligence by saying those terrorists (criminals) do not represent Islam.


I don't have to. You are not at all full of intelligence. Rotflmao!

[[Again, typical islamic.]]

Cheers
BMZ


[[Peace]]
Ronyvo3
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe in the Islamic god for the same reason I don't believe in Thor, Odin, Zeus, Venus, etc. etc. Funny thing is, it's probably the same reason you don't believe in any of these ancient myths. The difference is, as has been said before, I went one step further than you and crossed off the last god from the list as well.

There is no proof for any deity and therefore no reason for me to believe in any deity. Any deity that created humans and requires belief should also provide some reason for that belief other than an ancient text. I know I've heard the 'free will' argument before, but apparently this god didn't have any trouble conversing with people in the past; he didn't seem to consider it an assault on Moses' free will when he talked to him, no problem conversing with Abraham or Joshua or Mohammad. So why is it an assault on our free will if he does the same thing now?

I’ve also heard the ‘If I don’t believe it’s because I don’t want to believe.’ argument, but that’s just silly. I don’t believe because I have no reason to believe.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:

What details?
An Islamic country is Islamic.  They are all the same as far as the horrbile treatment of non-Muslims.
They follow the Koran, whixh is full of kill and terrorize.
However, if you are following my posts here and everwhere else, you would know my country of birth is Egypt.
I am a Christian all my life raised in a Christian family which goes back over 2000 years.
I thank God for that.

so how many times exactly did they tried to kill you in that muslim country? may as well share with us how did you and your family survived. They must've tried to kill you 20 times per day.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

spacecopgaban wrote:
ronyvo wrote:

What details?
An Islamic country is Islamic.  They are all the same as far as the horrbile treatment of non-Muslims.
They follow the Koran, whixh is full of kill and terrorize.
However, if you are following my posts here and everwhere else, you would know my country of birth is Egypt.
I am a Christian all my life raised in a Christian family which goes back over 2000 years.
I thank God for that.

so how many times exactly did they tried to kill you in that muslim country? may as well share with us how did you and your family survived. They must've tried to kill you 20 times per day.

Not really. It is a very passive genocide. Muslims have 1 printed on the corner of their ID cards. Christians have 2. If you want any service at the government, there is a chance you will be left waiting for hours and your paper lost since you have a 2 on your card.

In Universities your grades will suffer, particularly the last year where you prepare for higher studies.

At work you are marked.

An Egyptians Muslims are bad but not that bad. If your company gets bought by a Saudi or a Kuwaiti then you are screwed. As per sharia, a muslim can not have a non-muslim manager so all Christians manager are asked to convert or get fired.

Once a year we will get our cars painted white on the side. Our jewish neighbours would get a pink on the side of the car.

Every now and then a girl gets kidnapped and forced to marry a muslim. The cops will not do anything about it.

You know, the usual.
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noncredo wrote:
I don't believe in the Islamic god for the same reason I don't believe in Thor, Odin, Zeus, Venus, etc. etc. Funny thing is, it's probably the same reason you don't believe in any of these ancient myths. The difference is, as has been said before, I went one step further than you and crossed off the last god from the list as well.

There is no proof for any deity and therefore no reason for me to believe in any deity. Any deity that created humans and requires belief should also provide some reason for that belief other than an ancient text. I know I've heard the 'free will' argument before, but apparently this god didn't have any trouble conversing with people in the past; he didn't seem to consider it an assault on Moses' free will when he talked to him, no problem conversing with Abraham or Joshua or Mohammad. So why is it an assault on our free will if he does the same thing now?

I’ve also heard the ‘If I don’t believe it’s because I don’t want to believe.’ argument, but that’s just silly. I don’t believe because I have no reason to believe.

You can believe what you wish.

I have no problem with people believing in whatever or whoever, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T FORCE ME IN THEIR BELIEF.

Having said that, I am warning my fellow Americans of the DANGER of Islam.
If Islam takes over, you would not be able to say what you said now.
There is no freedom in Islam. Either you join Islam, the extremely violence sect or you will be slaughtered like a sheep.
That is what their Koran (Mohammad's and his Allah's instructions) says.

I know I lived Islam for over 25 years.
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: the Koran professes to Christianity, why the attacks, hate? Reply with quote

Why Islam attacks Christianity?
Mohammad instructed his followers to ask the people of the book (the Jews and Christians) when in doubt.
Here are just some of the Koran’s surahs affirming the Bible and Torah.
“Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed therein.” Surah 5:47
“If you were in doubt as to what have revealed unto you, then ask those who have been reading the Book before you; the truth has indeed come from your Lord; so be on no wise of those in doubt.” Surah 10:94
“We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes, that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to prophets from their Lord; we make no difference between one and another.”
Ironically, the Koran bears witness to the immaculate birth of Jesus, “And she who guarded her chastity (Virgin Mary) We breathed into her and we made her and her son a sign for all.” Surah 21:91
The Koran recognizes the miracles Jesus performed including creating, which is attributed ONLY to God. Surah 3:49
Surah 5:110, “O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with the Holy Spirit so you spoke to the people in the cradle.”
Mohammad confessed that Jesus is the Word of God, “When the angels said: “O Maryam ( Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad findings of the Word (“Be!”-and he was! i.e. Isa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary) from Him, his name will be the Messiah ‘Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam, held in honor of this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah.” Surah 3:45
And if you continue reading surahs 3:46-50 one can realize that Mohammad could not escape the truth that Jesus was God.
After all of that Islam considers Jesus just a prophet.

Surah 19:33, confirms the death and resurrection of Jesus, “And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive.”
At that point, nothing left to dismiss Christianity,  Mohammad revealed the next surah:
“—but they killed him hot, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man.”
It seems that Mohammad had vivid imagination.
Besides, we know that the Koran is full of contradictions.
So, if Mohammad and his Koran had such respect of the Bible and Jesus, why the hate and fight?

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