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Psycho Bunny



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

ixolite wrote:
As for the rest: Everyone makes mistakes and eventually one will learn from them.


I see no process of learning on the part of the Mods - only a development of a clique mentality.
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kafir forever
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
Well, they had been praying to the PC gods (SG) and they got themselves a PC curse. Let us see how they will deal with BloodCrazedMuslim. IMO a parasite that adapted perfectly to tread over the PCness of his culture.

Of course, I can not get myself to blame BCM. I can only blame the environment that allows him to get away with what he gets away with.

Now is CEOM too PC? I think they (and we) have a problem that muslims love to swear. It is inherent in a muslim to swear and use smilies. A muslim that does not swear is like a fish that can breath air. He exists, but he is so damn rare.

As long as he addresses muslims, he can get away without swearing (at the muslims) but as soon as he gets questioned or put on the spot, then it is One swear after another. Should we tolerate that? or should we just ban it on both sides?

Just because PB and me like to swear every now and then, do I have to allow a muslim who likes to swears ALL the time?

KF, you mentioned that PC leads to Tyranny, and I agree. I am however tempted to ban swearing all together, not because I am a nice leftist, but because I am a tyrant and I prefer to take away the weapons of choice of my opponent.

If my opponent is stupid enough that he can not walk a step without swearing (Tourette), then shouldn't I take away that option from the table? I know I can survive debates as I make my points without swearing, can he?

If I ban swearing for my own pragmatic reasons, am I PC?


Banning swearing is not necessarily PC, but even that might be subjective and full of the same traps.  Just using a "swear word" from the official list of swear words might be too simplistic.  If I say, "What the fuck was that all about?" is that swearing?  If I say, "You fucking idiot," that is probably swearing, but it is also an insult.  The first example was simply an exclamation using a swear word.  So we are back to what is an insult and what is not?  As I have said before, I do not think there is any objective criteria that can be applied, so it is a matter of the whim of the enforcer.

In American radio broadcasting, the FCC has an official list of seven words that cannot be broadcast, so people who use them are automatically censored regardless of how they are used or intended.  However, the broadcaster has a censor listening to every word, and the broadcast has a built in delay sufficient for the censor to bleep out the word.  You can't do that on a forum because the software can't determine that f**k (or any of its endless variations) is really one of the prohibited words.

I think it all comes down to the judgment of a human being, and that judgment will have flaws.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ixolite wrote:
The aims of FFI and CoEM are different. FFI wants to educate about Islam, CoEM wants to help apostates. That they try and have a different approach is understandable, the future will tell how (or if) it works out.

As for the rest: Everyone makes mistakes and eventually one will learn from them.

True, One is for handling Islam and one is for handling muslims.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kafir forever wrote:
Baal wrote:
Well, they had been praying to the PC gods (SG) and they got themselves a PC curse. Let us see how they will deal with BloodCrazedMuslim. IMO a parasite that adapted perfectly to tread over the PCness of his culture.

Of course, I can not get myself to blame BCM. I can only blame the environment that allows him to get away with what he gets away with.

Now is CEOM too PC? I think they (and we) have a problem that muslims love to swear. It is inherent in a muslim to swear and use smilies. A muslim that does not swear is like a fish that can breath air. He exists, but he is so damn rare.

As long as he addresses muslims, he can get away without swearing (at the muslims) but as soon as he gets questioned or put on the spot, then it is One swear after another. Should we tolerate that? or should we just ban it on both sides?

Just because PB and me like to swear every now and then, do I have to allow a muslim who likes to swears ALL the time?

KF, you mentioned that PC leads to Tyranny, and I agree. I am however tempted to ban swearing all together, not because I am a nice leftist, but because I am a tyrant and I prefer to take away the weapons of choice of my opponent.

If my opponent is stupid enough that he can not walk a step without swearing (Tourette), then shouldn't I take away that option from the table? I know I can survive debates as I make my points without swearing, can he?

If I ban swearing for my own pragmatic reasons, am I PC?


Banning swearing is not necessarily PC, but even that might be subjective and full of the same traps.  Just using a "swear word" from the official list of swear words might be too simplistic.  If I say, "What the fuck was that all about?" is that swearing?  If I say, "You fucking idiot," that is probably swearing, but it is also an insult.  The first example was simply an exclamation using a swear word.  So we are back to what is an insult and what is not?  As I have said before, I do not think there is any objective criteria that can be applied, so it is a matter of the whim of the enforcer.

In American radio broadcasting, the FCC has an official list of seven words that cannot be broadcast, so people who use them are automatically censored regardless of how they are used or intended.  However, the broadcaster has a censor listening to every word, and the broadcast has a built in delay sufficient for the censor to bleep out the word.  You can't do that on a forum because the software can't determine that f**k (or any of its endless variations) is really one of the prohibited words.

I think it all comes down to the judgment of a human being, and that judgment will have flaws.

From my experience in handling muslims. Even (Specially) cutsy insults would be banned. Words like (listen idiot) and (very dumb of you) and (you are silly) will be just as banned as (fuck you and your old lady too).

Of course my problem is not someone going on "What the fuck". My problem will be "fuck Mohammad". Technically that person did not swear at another forummer. He just swore at PBUH. Can I allow this?

What if the forummer said "Mohammad is a childfvcker" and he said it, while defending his position with hadith. How can I reconcile this with "fuck mohammad"?

And if I allow "Mohammad is a childbanger" for someone, how can I later tell Mrs.Westerner not to use that term every second post she makes?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
kafir forever wrote:
Baal wrote:
Well, they had been praying to the PC gods (SG) and they got themselves a PC curse. Let us see how they will deal with BloodCrazedMuslim. IMO a parasite that adapted perfectly to tread over the PCness of his culture.

Of course, I can not get myself to blame BCM. I can only blame the environment that allows him to get away with what he gets away with.

Now is CEOM too PC? I think they (and we) have a problem that muslims love to swear. It is inherent in a muslim to swear and use smilies. A muslim that does not swear is like a fish that can breath air. He exists, but he is so damn rare.

As long as he addresses muslims, he can get away without swearing (at the muslims) but as soon as he gets questioned or put on the spot, then it is One swear after another. Should we tolerate that? or should we just ban it on both sides?

Just because PB and me like to swear every now and then, do I have to allow a muslim who likes to swears ALL the time?

KF, you mentioned that PC leads to Tyranny, and I agree. I am however tempted to ban swearing all together, not because I am a nice leftist, but because I am a tyrant and I prefer to take away the weapons of choice of my opponent.

If my opponent is stupid enough that he can not walk a step without swearing (Tourette), then shouldn't I take away that option from the table? I know I can survive debates as I make my points without swearing, can he?

If I ban swearing for my own pragmatic reasons, am I PC?


Banning swearing is not necessarily PC, but even that might be subjective and full of the same traps.  Just using a "swear word" from the official list of swear words might be too simplistic.  If I say, "What the fuck was that all about?" is that swearing?  If I say, "You fucking idiot," that is probably swearing, but it is also an insult.  The first example was simply an exclamation using a swear word.  So we are back to what is an insult and what is not?  As I have said before, I do not think there is any objective criteria that can be applied, so it is a matter of the whim of the enforcer.

In American radio broadcasting, the FCC has an official list of seven words that cannot be broadcast, so people who use them are automatically censored regardless of how they are used or intended.  However, the broadcaster has a censor listening to every word, and the broadcast has a built in delay sufficient for the censor to bleep out the word.  You can't do that on a forum because the software can't determine that f**k (or any of its endless variations) is really one of the prohibited words.

I think it all comes down to the judgment of a human being, and that judgment will have flaws.

From my experience in handling muslims. Even (Specially) cutsy insults would be banned. Words like (listen idiot) and (very dumb of you) and (you are silly) will be just as banned as (fuck you and your old lady too).

Of course my problem is not someone going on "What the fuck". My problem will be "fuck Mohammad". Technically that person did not swear at another forummer. He just swore at PBUH. Can I allow this?

What if the forummer said "Mohammad is a childfvcker" and he said it, while defending his position with hadith. How can I reconcile this with "fuck mohammad"?

And if I allow "Mohammad is a childbanger" for someone, how can I later tell Mrs.Westerner not to use that term every second post she makes?


You gave some great examples of why I think the policy cannot be enforced unless certain words and their variations are disallowed.

I don't think the cutsy insults should be banned, though.  It is too hard to decide what should and shouldn't be banned.  Would you ban or allow, "Your IQ is below room temperature."  How about, "You are an idiot."  If so, then how about, "I think your opinion is idiotic."  In the first "idot" insult, the person is the target.  In the second, it is the opinion, but the second is just a way to avoid saying the first.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kafir forever wrote:

You gave some great examples of why I think the policy cannot be enforced unless certain words and their variations are disallowed.

Yes but which words can i ban? "Muhammad loves kids, under his blanket".

kafir forever wrote:

I don't think the cutsy insults should be banned, though.  It is too hard to decide what should and shouldn't be banned.

Yes but who uses them 10 times more then anyone else?

kafir forever wrote:

Would you ban or allow, "Your IQ is below room temperature."  How about, "You are an idiot."  If so, then how about, "I think your opinion is idiotic."  In the first "idot" insult, the person is the target.  In the second, it is the opinion, but the second is just a way to avoid saying the first.

Well "you are an idiot" had had some bad effects in COEM as PB will testify. Also the whole slew of bannings in FFI started with "you are an idiot". But screw that, I have no problem calling people idiot and being called one. I believe Ali and the COEM mods should not mod if they can not control "You are an idiot".

My reason for considering control of the insults is unfortunately a little more insidious then people's sensibilities. Now the "IQ below room temperature" and "I think your opinion is idiotic" makes it a little more complicated.

PS: So is an IQ above room temperature that much higher?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
kafir forever wrote:

You gave some great examples of why I think the policy cannot be enforced unless certain words and their variations are disallowed.

Yes but which words can i ban? "Muhammad loves kids, under his blanket"
kafir forever wrote:

I don't think the cutsy insults should be banned, though.  It is too hard to decide what should and shouldn't be banned.

Yes but who uses them 10 times more then anyone else?

kafir forever wrote:

Would you ban or allow, "Your IQ is below room temperature."  How about, "You are an idiot."  If so, then how about, "I think your opinion is idiotic."  In the first "idot" insult, the person is the target.  In the second, it is the opinion, but the second is just a way to avoid saying the first.

Well "you are an idiot" had had some bad effects in COEM as PB will testify. Also the whole slew of bannings in FFI started with "you are an idiot". But screw that, I have no problem calling people idiot and being called one. I believe Ali and the COEM mods should not mod if they can not control "You are an idiot".

My reason for considering control of the insults is unfortunately a little more insidious then people's sensibilities. Now the "IQ below room temperature" and "I think your opinion is idiotic" makes it a little more complicated.

PS: So is an IQ above room temperature that much higher?


Baal, I do not envy your role in this.  I understand that your control of insults has a goal that goes beyond basic civility, which only makes it harder.  I do not have a solution because, IMO, the situation is self-contradictory -- there is no solution.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome PB! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You All_Brains

Good luck with the baby!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
kafir forever wrote:

You gave some great examples of why I think the policy cannot be enforced unless certain words and their variations are disallowed.

Yes but which words can i ban? "Muhammad loves kids, under his blanket".

kafir forever wrote:

I don't think the cutsy insults should be banned, though.  It is too hard to decide what should and shouldn't be banned.

Yes but who uses them 10 times more then anyone else?

kafir forever wrote:

Would you ban or allow, "Your IQ is below room temperature."  How about, "You are an idiot."  If so, then how about, "I think your opinion is idiotic."  In the first "idot" insult, the person is the target.  In the second, it is the opinion, but the second is just a way to avoid saying the first.

Well "you are an idiot" had had some bad effects in COEM as PB will testify. Also the whole slew of bannings in FFI started with "you are an idiot". But screw that, I have no problem calling people idiot and being called one. I believe Ali and the COEM mods should not mod if they can not control "You are an idiot".

My reason for considering control of the insults is unfortunately a little more insidious then people's sensibilities. Now the "IQ below room temperature" and "I think your opinion is idiotic" makes it a little more complicated.

PS: So is an IQ above room temperature that much higher?

The issue in my view, is intent. And intent is much harder to prove than it may seem.

I also think we should not hold the FFI example of "You are an idiot" as a typical example. I don't think it is widely supported.

However, I feel that the use of words is over simplistically judged so as to punish those that are not in favor, for other reasons than the use of the word. Having fallen foul of that, I feel that the fine line between freedom of expression and crossing the line is not appreciated as it should. But then, who drew that line anyway...

Like they say... you can only insults your friends. Otherwise, you get a fist up your nose.

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