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Fathom
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Psycho Bunny wrote:
I think the Ali Sina issue was silly. I don't know why he brought up UFOs/Aliens with such a passion. If he was less evangelical about it it would not have got so out of hand,

But I also think that the CEMB forum is more silly in its painful attempts to be PC, and it exposes so perfectly how some people who cry "victim" are just bullies at heart. The hypocrisies of the moderating team disgusted me beforer I was made to leave.

I have not been eavesdropping there as I think it is a ship of fools heading for a maelstrom. I just hope they get some serious Islamists spamming their site, as happened constantly at FFI. Then they may have to seriously work out who their true enemies really are, rather than ganging up on people who don't take their bullying crap lying down.


Bunny, listen.

The point really wasn't about people being stupid because they didn't believe in UFOs/Aliens. What many people do not realize about that thread is that it was actually an exercise. Let me explain.

At that time, Ali Sina was working on his article entitled "Dare to Doubt." Not sure if you read that article, but it involved the virtues of people learning to doubt everything they think they know, with a special emphasis on religion.

Ali Sina knew what kind of reaction he was going to get when he started that UFO thread. He intentionally posted youTube videos that were so obviously fake, and then made you and others believe that he took them very seriously. Why? Because he was creating an exercise to challenge his "friends" to debate him well enough to give him reason to doubt.

He was trying to make a point, and it really didn't have much to do with whether or not he believed in UFOs and aliens. Yet, what he demonstrated was how those who were so against the UFO beliefs were not so much unlike how the Muslims are in their beliefs in Islam.

You see, he intentionally chose the UFO situation because he knew it would be very controversial and would split the debaters, pitting many against many. He took up the position similar to a Muslim, and challenged everyone to disprove his beliefs. What resulted was what you seen for yourself; insults, lack of investigation, and poor debating skills.

Ali Sina demonstrated that his "friends" were no different in their beliefs about UFOs and aliens than the Muslims were about Islam and Muhammad.

So what he was doing was "Daring you to Doubt." He dared everyone to doubt what they believed about UFOs and Aliens, but hardly anyone could see what he was doing.

I seen it almost immediately. I knew something was up as soon as he started posting some obviously fake videos and presenting illogical arguments for their authenticity. I have read enough of Ali Sina's articles to know that what he was doing was uncharacteristic of him, because he is very strong in presenting logical discourse.

So the only option left was that he was doing it on purpose, and for a purpose. But despite his repeated requests for the insults to stop, they simply didn't. The thread got so out of hand that its existence was being leaked out to the public, and people who were supposedly his "friends" decided to ridicule him instead of actually reading what he was clearly saying in that thread.

Does Ali Sina believe in UFOs and Aliens? He thinks it's possible is all. But that thread was never about UFOs and aliens.

And that's a fact.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Fathom

That is an interesting explanation that makes sense of what happened.

However, what I find from my perspective as a British person is that too many people in my country and its contiguous nations in the EU have not only learned to "Dare to Doubt" - but that they have now made doubt into an article of unswerving belief.

Dare to doubt your nation's value -
Dare to doubt your nation's heritage
Dare to doubt the worth of your nation any more in the present or future
Dare to doubt everything your parents and grandparents believed in
Dare to doubt that your fears of Islamism are real......

It is always useful to not become too dogmatic, too clinging to one's cherished mantras and nostrums - but I am sorry to say that there must be some principle, some over-arching moral certainties that one should never doubt - UNTIL coherent evidence has been presented in front of one to doubt that "certain belief". WIthout our certain beliefs in our own self-worth we are nothing, we lose our souls and our culture.

In Britain and elsewhere in the PC, multicultural spineless West, people are daring to doubt all aspecpts of their culture's value, without having any evidence whatsoever that their culture is wrong. They do not rally history or science to support their belief that Britain was "colonialist" so it is automatically bad, and certainly do not trust history or science to question whether the colonialist expansions of Islamism are any better - but they automatically believe that if it is not Western, it automatically "must be good".

The mantra is afoot, and stalking the land - that "All cultures are equal" - even when that culture is something so intransigent and 7th century as Islam - or some animist African belief that is riddled with base superstitions.

In America, people dare to doubt that their own governments have their best interests at heart.

In almost all these cases, where doubt is introduced, a bizarre certainty in the exact opposite belief comes into play - American Ufologists and "abductees" are CONVINCED their government a) has something to hide, and/or b) is working against them, probably being in cahoots with an Alien species.

In Europe's multicultural wasteland the host culture - by the very nature of its previous successes - must de facto be exploitative, racist and other "ists" that do not deserve to be respected today. The populace and its idiot psephologists and media manipulators are encouraging people to believe that being "oppressed" or part of a minority is automatically "good" or "virtuous" - a preposterous notion that has no innate logic, but has become a new article of unswerving belief.

And while people are running around feeling guilty about having any treasured principles or values, and all their certainties from history have been undermined by sloppy revisionists, the marrow of our cultures has been sapped and drained, and we are becoming brittle and weakened as people - made ready for our ultimate demise at the hands of any alien horde - be it a population with an immigrant (or extraterrestrial) or medieval outlook.

All minorities are welcome to be treated as our cultural superiors and equals - except for members of our own culture and for Jews. If they are Jewish, they must have something to do with Israel and automatically be responsible for oppressing those "poor Palestinians". The Palestinians automatically get everyone's support because their crappy Qassam rockets which they fire every day at Israel are not as effective as the far fewer Israeli missiles which are occasionally targeted back at "Palestinian lands and people".

And as far as I am concerned, I have seen "daring to doubt" become an excuse to "fear to believe". And "daring to doubt" has undermined the mettle of the West like a cancer eats away at healthy tissue, replacing it with something that is dense, amorphous and ultimately fatal to the body politic.

And I believe that it is time to draw a line in the sand - to say "No longer". Because unless people discover some sense of trust in their forefathers' ambitions values and intentions - even if their ancestors may have made a few mistakes along the way - we in the West are doomed.

We deliberately use this "certainty of doubt" to make our culture and traditions look bad - while elevating other cultures and beliefs which have no history of intellectual or libertarian progress as our culture has done. These rigid and inflexible foreign ideologies/religions, which have produced no history of doubt or questioning in their own societies are accorded the ultimate respect by our Quislings, who denigrate our own culture, and weaken it with the cancer of self-doubt.

I am aware that I am probably ranting, but I hope you get what I mean.

Anyway - I have rejoined FFI now anyway, and apologised to Ali for being rude.

At least Ali allows others to express opinions that are different to his own - unlike Berbs and that slimy megalomaniac cunt Osmanthus at CEMB.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psycho Bunny wrote:
Thanks Fathom

That is an interesting explanation that makes sense of what happened.

However, what I find from my perspective as a British person is that too many people in my country and its contiguous nations in the EU have not only learned to "Dare to Doubt" - but that they have now made doubt into an article of unswerving belief.

Dare to doubt your nation's value -
Dare to doubt your nation's heritage
Dare to doubt the worth of your nation any more in the present or future
Dare to doubt everything your parents and grandparents believed in
Dare to doubt that your fears of Islamism are real......

It is always useful to not become too dogmatic, too clinging to one's cherished mantras and nostrums - but I am sorry to say that there must be some principle, some over-arching moral certainties that one should never doubt - UNTIL coherent evidence has been presented in front of one to doubt that "certain belief". WIthout our certain beliefs in our own self-worth we are nothing, we lose our souls and our culture.

In Britain and elsewhere in the PC, multicultural spineless West, people are daring to doubt all aspecpts of their culture's value, without having any evidence whatsoever that their culture is wrong. They do not rally history or science to support their belief that Britain was "colonialist" so it is automatically bad, and certainly do not trust history or science to question whether the colonialist expansions of Islamism are any better - but they automatically believe that if it is not Western, it automatically "must be good".

The mantra is afoot, and stalking the land - that "All cultures are equal" - even when that culture is something so intransigent and 7th century as Islam - or some animist African belief that is riddled with base superstitions.

In America, people dare to doubt that their own governments have their best interests at heart.

In almost all these cases, where doubt is introduced, a bizarre certainty in the exact opposite belief comes into play - American Ufologists and "abductees" are CONVINCED their government a) has something to hide, and/or b) is working against them, probably being in cahoots with an Alien species.

In Europe's multicultural wasteland the host culture - by the very nature of its previous successes - must de facto be exploitative, racist and other "ists" that do not deserve to be respected today. The populace and its idiot psephologists and media manipulators are encouraging people to believe that being "oppressed" or part of a minority is automatically "good" or "virtuous" - a preposterous notion that has no innate logic, but has become a new article of unswerving belief.

And while people are running around feeling guilty about having any treasured principles or values, and all their certainties from history have been undermined by sloppy revisionists, the marrow of our cultures has been sapped and drained, and we are becoming brittle and weakened as people - made ready for our ultimate demise at the hands of any alien horde - be it a population with an immigrant (or extraterrestrial) or medieval outlook.

All minorities are welcome to be treated as our cultural superiors and equals - except for members of our own culture and for Jews. If they are Jewish, they must have something to do with Israel and automatically be responsible for oppressing those "poor Palestinians". The Palestinians automatically get everyone's support because their crappy Qassam rockets which they fire every day at Israel are not as effective as the far fewer Israeli missiles which are occasionally targeted back at "Palestinian lands and people".

And as far as I am concerned, I have seen "daring to doubt" become an excuse to "fear to believe". And "daring to doubt" has undermined the mettle of the West like a cancer eats away at healthy tissue, replacing it with something that is dense, amorphous and ultimately fatal to the body politic.

And I believe that it is time to draw a line in the sand - to say "No longer". Because unless people discover some sense of trust in their forefathers' ambitions values and intentions - even if their ancestors may have made a few mistakes along the way - we in the West are doomed.

We deliberately use this "certainty of doubt" to make our culture and traditions look bad - while elevating other cultures and beliefs which have no history of intellectual or libertarian progress as our culture has done. These rigid and inflexible foreign ideologies/religions, which have produced no history of doubt or questioning in their own societies are accorded the ultimate respect by our Quislings, who denigrate our own culture, and weaken it with the cancer of self-doubt.

I am aware that I am probably ranting, but I hope you get what I mean.

Anyway - I have rejoined FFI now anyway, and apologised to Ali for being rude.

At least Ali allows others to express opinions that are different to his own - unlike Berbs and that slimy megalomaniac cunt Osmanthus at CEMB.


Very well articulated. Why is it that we do not see you contributing articles at FFI when it is so obvious that you have more than the average share of clues?

What has become clear to me is that both "daring to doubt" and "not being afraid to believe" both have their stations in our lives, and when tempered with balance, we can find sure footing on the high wire of abductive reasoning.

Thank you for your enlightening response.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fathom wrote:
Psycho Bunny wrote:
Thanks Fathom

That is an interesting explanation that makes sense of what happened.

However, what I find from my perspective as a British person is that too many people in my country and its contiguous nations in the EU have not only learned to "Dare to Doubt" - but that they have now made doubt into an article of unswerving belief.

Dare to doubt your nation's value -
Dare to doubt your nation's heritage
Dare to doubt the worth of your nation any more in the present or future
Dare to doubt everything your parents and grandparents believed in
Dare to doubt that your fears of Islamism are real......

It is always useful to not become too dogmatic, too clinging to one's cherished mantras and nostrums - but I am sorry to say that there must be some principle, some over-arching moral certainties that one should never doubt - UNTIL coherent evidence has been presented in front of one to doubt that "certain belief". WIthout our certain beliefs in our own self-worth we are nothing, we lose our souls and our culture.

In Britain and elsewhere in the PC, multicultural spineless West, people are daring to doubt all aspecpts of their culture's value, without having any evidence whatsoever that their culture is wrong. They do not rally history or science to support their belief that Britain was "colonialist" so it is automatically bad, and certainly do not trust history or science to question whether the colonialist expansions of Islamism are any better - but they automatically believe that if it is not Western, it automatically "must be good".

The mantra is afoot, and stalking the land - that "All cultures are equal" - even when that culture is something so intransigent and 7th century as Islam - or some animist African belief that is riddled with base superstitions.

In America, people dare to doubt that their own governments have their best interests at heart.

In almost all these cases, where doubt is introduced, a bizarre certainty in the exact opposite belief comes into play - American Ufologists and "abductees" are CONVINCED their government a) has something to hide, and/or b) is working against them, probably being in cahoots with an Alien species.

In Europe's multicultural wasteland the host culture - by the very nature of its previous successes - must de facto be exploitative, racist and other "ists" that do not deserve to be respected today. The populace and its idiot psephologists and media manipulators are encouraging people to believe that being "oppressed" or part of a minority is automatically "good" or "virtuous" - a preposterous notion that has no innate logic, but has become a new article of unswerving belief.

And while people are running around feeling guilty about having any treasured principles or values, and all their certainties from history have been undermined by sloppy revisionists, the marrow of our cultures has been sapped and drained, and we are becoming brittle and weakened as people - made ready for our ultimate demise at the hands of any alien horde - be it a population with an immigrant (or extraterrestrial) or medieval outlook.

All minorities are welcome to be treated as our cultural superiors and equals - except for members of our own culture and for Jews. If they are Jewish, they must have something to do with Israel and automatically be responsible for oppressing those "poor Palestinians". The Palestinians automatically get everyone's support because their crappy Qassam rockets which they fire every day at Israel are not as effective as the far fewer Israeli missiles which are occasionally targeted back at "Palestinian lands and people".

And as far as I am concerned, I have seen "daring to doubt" become an excuse to "fear to believe". And "daring to doubt" has undermined the mettle of the West like a cancer eats away at healthy tissue, replacing it with something that is dense, amorphous and ultimately fatal to the body politic.

And I believe that it is time to draw a line in the sand - to say "No longer". Because unless people discover some sense of trust in their forefathers' ambitions values and intentions - even if their ancestors may have made a few mistakes along the way - we in the West are doomed.

We deliberately use this "certainty of doubt" to make our culture and traditions look bad - while elevating other cultures and beliefs which have no history of intellectual or libertarian progress as our culture has done. These rigid and inflexible foreign ideologies/religions, which have produced no history of doubt or questioning in their own societies are accorded the ultimate respect by our Quislings, who denigrate our own culture, and weaken it with the cancer of self-doubt.

I am aware that I am probably ranting, but I hope you get what I mean.

Anyway - I have rejoined FFI now anyway, and apologised to Ali for being rude.

At least Ali allows others to express opinions that are different to his own - unlike Berbs and that slimy megalomaniac cunt Osmanthus at CEMB.


Very well articulated. Why is it that we do not see you contributing articles at FFI when it is so obvious that you have more than the average share of clues?

What has become clear to me is that both "daring to doubt" and "not being afraid to believe" both have their stations in our lives, and when tempered with balance, we can find sure footing on the high wire of abductive reasoning.

Thank you for your enlightening response.


Dittoooo.....


Nice post, PB.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm...Thanks Fathom for confirming what I thought Ali was doing. Very interesting!

Sorry guys I have been very busy with my new clinic and several assignments, but I will be having a couple of assistants in a couple of weeks and will surely have some more time to spend here.


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