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The amazing Quran
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BMZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
But for now I will give you this gift that was passed to me at Answering-faithfreedom about how important the Hadith and Sunna are:

Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


What exactly is the verse about, Baal?  Cool
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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:39 am    Post subject: My £0.02; Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Baal wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


What exactly is the verse about, Baal?  Cool

I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!
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Last edited by Pazuzu bin Hanbi on Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: My £0.02; Reply with quote

[quote="Pazuzu bin Hanbi"]
BMZ wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


Quote:
I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!


Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: My £0.02; Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Sura 59:7 "...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)..."


Quote:
I’ll field this one: that ayat deals with Spoils of Plunder, battle loot. People have taken it out of context to refer to everything Muhammad did!


Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?


Can I have a go at it? Nobody said anything in my brain so I assume I had a go.

We have been told of how to distribute the "booty" (a lovely thing). We could look at yusuf ali's translation:

Quote:
So take what the Apostle assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.


So tak what the apostle assigns to you 3/5 (among which is also to be distributed among others) and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you 2/5. Just a thought. It could also be about the thing of "prisoners of war". Is'nt there some rules on that.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: My £0.02; Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphans, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”

Commentary on this by Qur’anic scholar and exegete Muhammad Abdel Haleem also notes that “In this sura, God stresses that any victory is of His making, and any gains should be distributed in accordance with His instructions (verses 6–10)”.
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Last edited by Pazuzu bin Hanbi on Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: My £0.02; Reply with quote

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphas, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”


This is amazing. There's no true feelings or love for one's fellow man going on in this. Instead, it's all about obeying commands in order to avoid severe threats of punishment. Where's the love in this? Aaaaa, never mind. I know you're a Muslim and true compassion is a concept that escapes you because you are trapped by the Quran. Maybe you've never done a pure act of love in your whole life, and instead, did it all to avoid punishment and gain paradise.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: WTF! Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
I know you're a Muslim



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:11 am    Post subject: Re: My £0.02; Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Can you please show us how did you deduce this meaning from the above uttering using pure logic?

Idea Simply by reading the passage in full! Laughing

“Whatever gains God has turned over to His Messenger from the inhabitants of the villages belong to God, the Messenger, kinsfolk, orphas, the needy, the traveller in need — this is so that they do not just circulate among those of you who are rich — so accept whatever the Messenger gives you, and abstain from whatever he forbids you. Be mindful of God: God is severe in punishment.”


This is amazing. There's no true feelings or love for one's fellow man going on in this. Instead, it's all about obeying commands in order to avoid severe threats of punishment. Where's the love in this? Aaaaa, never mind. I know you're a Muslim and true compassion is a concept that escapes you because you are trapped by the Quran. Maybe you've never done a pure act of love in your whole life, and instead, did it all to avoid punishment and gain paradise.


Hello Mutley

I agree with Pazuzu regarding that verse. I find it logical that when taken in context of the whole verse that it is talking about the "booty" mentioned.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's go even One verse prior:

Quote:
59:6

{ وَمَآ أَفَآءَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ مِنْهُمْ فَمَآ أَوْجَفْتُمْ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ خَيْلٍ وَلاَ رِكَابٍ وَلَـٰكِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُسَلِّطُ رُسُلَهُ عَلَىٰ مَن يَشَآءُ وَٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ }

059.006
YUSUFALI: What Allah has bestowed on His Messenger (and taken away) from them - for this ye made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry: but Allah gives power to His messengers over any He pleases: and Allah has power over all things.
PICKTHAL: And that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, ye urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah giveth His messenger lordship over whom He will. Allah is Able to do all things.
SHAKIR: And whatever Allah restored to His Messenger from them you did not press forward against it any horse or a riding camel but Allah gives authority to His messengers against whom He pleases, and Allah has power over all things.

It makes Pazuzu's explanation even more accurate. Why BMZ, what did you think this verse means? Why did you bring forward this verse about 7th century bedouins dividing the loot among themselves?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
OJ Smoke wrote:
HomoErectus wrote:
Mutley wrote:
I'm Ed Baghat wrote:

i.e. bloody e. we need to follow the authenticated hadith that ONLY warns us from doing something, NA HAKUM


Oh, swell. Then we must listen to the hadith that tells us not to let black dogs into our house or have pictures in there because they prevent angels from entering

or this one

"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhari 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

Or how about the rule that says don't wipe you bum with bones because invisible creatures made from smokeless flame have a discerning palette and apparently don't like the taste of human crap on their food.

I'm sure there are plenty of ridiculous hadiths where Muhammad prohibits something that others can mention as well. you opened up a can of worms. Doa !!


Well, what can you say......



The Prophet is refering to Black Dogs (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes)

We are supposed to kill those dogs all the time, in any circumstance, as these dogs are very dangerous and will kill you if they get the opportunity..........Anyone who has been to the desert knows this.


I am afraid that's ignorant! All these animals you named have their names in Arabic and "kalb" is not one of them.

There is also another hadith of one guy asking Muhammad about other dog colors and whether they're too demons!!
He answered, only the black dog is a demon!!!!

And (ie. Hyenas, Jackals, Coyotes) are rarely black. In fact I have never seen one that's black.

Dogs and cats with their sharp senses, had been known throughout history as protectors, often protecting the house from vermins and bad spirits. Yet Gabriel, a spirit himself, is affraid of dogs? Why would a good spirit be affraid of dogs?

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