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Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)
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ronyvo



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims)  Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!

Well, when you say that you'r happy to see this side of ISLAM and Muslims.
I understand that you believe that there is a good side in Islam. That is definetely not true.
As for Muslims, yes I agree that there are those who are not violent. I have written an essay bout that some time ago:
                                                 THREE TYPES OF MUSLIMS

SECULARISTS are Muslims who do not have a knowledge of the contents of the Koran and only know a verse of two to justify enjoying their life such as: “Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world” (Surah Al-Kahf 18-46)

MODERATES know the Koran but seek to make their faith relevant to modern life. They try to reconcile the contradicting verses in the Koran in such a way that Muslims may tolerate Jews and Christians living among them. They emphasize the verses that came to the Prophet Muhammad when he was weak militarily and in need of the Christians and Jews: “So, if you (Mohammad) are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you then ask these who are reading the Book (the Torah & the Gospel) before you. Verily the truth has come to you from thy Lord. “ Surah Yunus 10-94  
“Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikun (unbelievers) and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say:’We are Christians.’ Surah Al-Maidah 5:82
and surah 2:62…etc
When needed Muslim clerics use Koranic verses including those which are kind to Jews and Christians to paint a glowing picture of Islam as a religion of peace, brotherhood, modesty, morality, self-discipline and family values. But the true face of Islam is revealed in the Koranic verses calling Muslims to Jihad against all non-Muslims.

FUNDAMENTALISTTS are those who want to apply the more extreme verses of the Koran to the letter. These verses came to Muhammad after he was strong and after he realized that the Christians and Jews will not follow him:
a)”O prophet Muhammad urge the believers (Muslims) to fight “ Surah 8:65
  “Jihad  (holy fighting in Allah’s cause) is ordained for you.” Surah 2:216
b)”O ye who believe (Muslims) take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends and protectors.” Surah 5:51
c)”Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews & Christians) until they pay the Jisyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29
d) The Koran commands Muslims to fight non-Muslims until they exterminate all other religions and Islam would be the only religion in the world. See Surah 2:193 and surah 8:39.
e) The Koran declares that Muslims who fight and die in battle are promised forgiveness (and that’s they are called martyrs) and sensual luxurious life in Paradise:
“Gardens and vineyards and young  full-breasted virgins of equal age and a full cup of wine.” Surah 78-32-34  Also see surahs 52-17-20,22; 56-31-37; 3:157; 9:111
f) “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hand and feet be cut from opposite sides…” surah 5:33 Also see surahs 8:12-14; 61:4; 9:5  
Now the big question is: if you meet a Muslim, under which category would he be in?

As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


Mate, I am an ex-Muslim!

The verses you quoted never had an effect on me and never changed my humanitarian approach. I know that there are millions of Muslims like me, who are kind at heart but happen to believe in fairy tales!

You have deliberately tries to overlook whom I meant by being reasonable. My comment was referring to BMZ rejection of the 9/11 incident as being righteous and not Islam.

Islam along with other Abrahamic faiths are on the verge of extinction, watch the space!


Mate, this freak has reached the max level of itch, he should be dismissed
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

[/quote]

Mate, this freak has reached the max level of itch, he should be dismissed[/quote]

Hello Ahmed

Hope all is OK with you and the family.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


LOL mate, how kind you are

well, to be accurate you should tell him:

feel free to express your hatred and ignorance on this web site
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


This is a very good advice.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:


As an x-Muslim, I think you would agree with this.


I actually I don't! As a psychologist I have stopped long time ago putting people in specific categories.

I understand however that you may feel angered by the rigid and uncompromising rules of Islam and that's why Islam is not for you.

Please continue to express yourself freely in this forum.


This is a very good advice.

follow up:
The Muslims call me all kind of names WHEN I QUOTE (COPPY) SURAHS FROM THE THEIR KORAN.
HATE IS CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY STATED IN THE KORAN AND WELL DEMONSTRATED BY THE ACTIONS OF THE FOLLOWERS' ACTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

As I mentioned before, I studied the Koran and hadiths and islamic history by imams from al-Azhar in Arabic. This is knowledge.
As a Christian from the Middle East, I suffered the ugly treatment and atrocities of Islam. This is personal experience.

I would say that about 95% of the Muslims in the world DID NOT GO THROUGH THIS kind of EDUCATION AND FELT THE AGONY OF SUCH TREATMENT.

However, they have no problem accuse me of hate.....
Amazing.
But, I am used to that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Quran 5:32 (A message to the Muslims) Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Good post, Ahmed. The verses explain the sanctity and the value of human life and condemn murder of people.

Defending against aggression and war is a different matter. Personally, I believe that 9/11 was a retaliation by Osama after Clinton ordered attack by raining cruise missiles on Osama's camps in Afghanistan. There was nothing Islamic in it and 9/11 can never be justified by any Muslim. It was wrong.

Salaams
BMZ


Well done! I am really happy to see this side of Islam and Muslims.

Are you so easily decieved?!


I am only reacting to BMZ comment on 9/11, which sounds reasonable.

Sounds reasonable?
There is nothing in Islam sounds resonable.
The Islamic agenda is to dominate the entire globe.
How can you trust "peaceful islam"?:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4


ronyvo,

Have I quoted you the HATE verse from the master himself, the one which was quoted by Imam Luke? I append below for an easy reference and for this exchange, it should mean what it says this time. lol!


[quote]26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.[/quote]

If you read very carefully, Jesus even does not want his people and you to live. He wants you to hate even your own dear life. lol!

Cheers
BMZ



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