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How can God be good?
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

See:

http://www.free-islam.com/modules...mp;file=viewtopic&p=3049#3049
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Sure, will do add the links for this one and from now on to any copies I pass to my web site


AhmedBahgat wrote:
See:

http://www.free-islam.com/modules...mp;file=viewtopic&p=3049#3049


Great, I think it increases your credibility as a transmitter of information if you do that.

Peace
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Baal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story is BS. You are in the middle of the desert. You see some light, you have no clue what it is, you go alone?! and you send the leader? and you send the leader alone?

Also although both verses mean the same, what moses said in each verse is different. He meant the same though. You can blame it on the fact that he was not speaking arabic and the koran was just trying to translate what moses said.

But now we have an issue Ahmed, which of the Two verses is the better translation for what Moses said?
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baal wrote:
The story is BS. You are in the middle of the desert. You see some light, you have no clue what it is, you go alone?! and you send the leader? and you send the leader alone?

Also although both verses mean the same, what moses said in each verse is different. He meant the same though. You can blame it on the fact that he was not speaking arabic and the koran was just trying to translate what moses said.

But now we have an issue Ahmed, which of the Two verses is the better translation for what Moses said?


mister baal

Allah is telling us the story USING HIS OWN words, then He told us the story again, using His own different words but same context then  He told us about it for the third time using His own different words and still same context, This is the miracle of the Quran, pal

Allah is not reading to us a log book of what is excatly been said

don't act desperate as Tv

cheers
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello both

Could we continue, if it needs to be continued, in the appropiate place. This thread is a discussion about "how can God be good", and not some specific textual references to a specific book.

So I'll put it over here or suggest the mods to do it.

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/ftopic205-10.php

Cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raza wrote:
I think Allah(Subhanahu wa ta'ala) gave out the traits for a good being and a bad being.
So Allah(Subhanahu wa ta'ala) fits the traits for good being, so God is Good.

For example, Allah(Subhanahu wa ta'ala) says the He will forgive all of your sins if you sincerely repent for them. And for the humans, there is a chance that humans can go to eternal heaven.

By this, you can pick up two traits of God, He is forgiving and He is merciful.

Forgiving and merciful are two traits that are considered good.

Please, give me the surahs, wit references, from the Koran which says that Allah is merciful and forgiving.

Please, do not mix the terms.
Allah is NOT God (the God of the Jews and Christians).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Baal wrote:
The story is BS. You are in the middle of the desert. You see some light, you have no clue what it is, you go alone?! and you send the leader? and you send the leader alone?

Also although both verses mean the same, what moses said in each verse is different. He meant the same though. You can blame it on the fact that he was not speaking arabic and the koran was just trying to translate what moses said.

But now we have an issue Ahmed, which of the Two verses is the better translation for what Moses said?


mister baal

Allah is telling us the story USING HIS OWN words, then He told us the story again, using His own different words but same context then  He told us about it for the third time using His own different words and still same context, This is the miracle of the Quran, pal

Allah is not reading to us a log book of what is excatly been said

don't act desperate as Tv

cheers


First, the Koran is full of contradictions. I can prove it.

Second, Muslims brag that the Koran is the only miracle Mohammad brought forth, because of the equisite Arabic language. Well, it has been proven over and over again that the languestic mistakes are numerous. Taha Hussein, a Muslim scholar in Arabic proved it, so many others.

Third, please read my post about who is allah.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
 First, the Koran is full of contradictions. I can prove it.

Second, Muslims brag that the Koran is the only miracle Mohammad brought forth, because of the equisite Arabic language. Well, it has been proven over and over again that the languestic mistakes are numerous. Taha Hussein, a Muslim scholar in Arabic proved it, so many others.

Third, please read my post about who is allah.


Please prove it using your own words and understanding, without quoting any links of ill repute.

Just copy/paste a verse in Arabic and show us the contradictions, if any. Would appreciate if you can do that in a separate topic.

By the way, who is Taha Hussein? I have never heard about him.

BMZ

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
By the way, who is Taha Hussein? I have never heard about him.

BMZ[/i]


Neither had I. This is just a quick Google -

Quote:
DR. TAHA HUSSAIN  [b. 1890]
Dr. Taha Hussain, a leading Egyptian scholar,  rejects the theory that the political system of early Islam was prescribed by God thr ough His revelation to the Prophet. He says that there is no doubt that in the addresses of the Caliphs to the people and in the traditions related from them mention is made of the authority of God and the duty of obedience to Him. From this some people have concluded that the political system of Islam was not man-made but God-sent. But there is nothing divine in this system except that Caliphate was a contract between the Caliphs and the general body of Muslims and God has commanded the Muslims to fulfil their contracts. Beyond this, the political system of early Islam had no divine sanction behind it.

Taha Hussain emphasises the fact that in state affairs the prophet used to consult his Companions and this shows that the political system of early Islam was not divinely ordained. The revelation only drew the attention of the prophet and his Companions to their general interests without taking away their freedom to order their state affairs as they liked, of course, within the limits of truth, virtue and justice. The best proof of this thesis is that the Quran did not lay down any political system either in outline or in detail. It laid down only general limits and then left the Muslims free to order their state affairs as they liked. The only condition was that they should not  transgress the limits laid down in the Quran. The prophet himself did not give any specific political system to the Muslims. He did not even designate his successor either by word or in writing, when he fell seriously ill. He merely ordered Abu Bakr to lead the prayers in his absence.16  

Taha Hussain, in his book On Pre-Islamic Poetry, published in 1926, contended that a great deal of the poetry reputed to be pre-Islamic had been forged by Muslims of a later date for various reasons, one being to give credence to Quranic "myths".  He also cast a doubt on the autehnticity of  the story of Abraham and Ismail of having built the Kaba. "Torah may speak to us about Abraham and Isma el and the Quran may tell us about them too, but the mention of their names in the Torah and the Quran is not sufficient to establish their historical existence, let alone the story which tells us about the emigration of Ismael, son of Abraham, to Mecca and the origin of Arabs there. We are compelled to see in their story a kind of fiction to establish the relationship of the Jews and Arabs on the one hand and Islam and Judaism on the other."17

In  another book entitled "The Future of Culture in Egypt,"  published in 1938, Taha Hussain, advocated that Egypt is cultrually a part of Europe and advocated for the assimilation of modern European culture. He argued that Egypt has always been an integral part of Europe as far as its intellectual and cultural life is concerned in all its forms and branches. "Egypt belongs by heritage to the same wider Mediterranean civilization that embraces Greece, Italy and France".  

In his ripe age, Taha Hussain's appar ently had a second thought about some of his early writings and pleaded for blind faith in religion. "Reason does not have that power and penetration which the Greek, Christian and Muslim philosophers thought it had. Human reason is really one of the many faculties given to man. Like other faculties its power is limited. It can understand certain things, but certain others are not amenable to reason," he advocated.18 Taha Hussain also crticised the apologists who try to reconcile the Quran with modern science and said that "it matters little whether Din (religion) is reconciled with modern knowledge or reamins unreconciled. "Din is a knowledge from God which knows no limits while modern knowledge, like ancient knowledge, is limited by limitations of human reason."19  


http://www.ghazali.net/book2/chapter7/body_chapter7.html

I could not find the sources represented by the numbers in the text - I think it was copy-pasted from another site.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
ronyvo wrote:
 First, the Koran is full of contradictions. I can prove it.

Second, Muslims brag that the Koran is the only miracle Mohammad brought forth, because of the equisite Arabic language. Well, it has been proven over and over again that the languestic mistakes are numerous. Taha Hussein, a Muslim scholar in Arabic proved it, so many others.

Third, please read my post about who is allah.


Please prove it using your own words and understanding, without quoting any links of ill repute.

Just copy/paste a verse in Arabic and show us the contradictions, if any. Would appreciate if you can do that in a separate topic.

By the way, who is Taha Hussein? I have never heard about him.

BMZ

Here are some of the contradictions:
In surah 2:256 Allah tells Mohammad not to impose Islam by force, “There is no compulsion in religion:” while in surah 2:193 Allah tells him to kill whoever rejects Islam, ”Fight (kill) them; until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s.”
In surah 73:10 Allah tells Mohammad to be patient with his opponents, “ Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously.” While in surah 2:191 Allah tells him to kill whoever rejects Islam, “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.
In surah 29:46 Allah tells Mohammad to speak nicely to people of the book (Christians and Jews), “And argue not with the people of the scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner….we believe in that which has been revealed to you, our god and your God is one..”
While in surah 9:29, Allah tells him to fight the people of the book, “Fight those who believe not in god not the last day…not acknowledge the religion of truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the people of the book.”
Surah 8:13-17, “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.”
Surah 5:54 “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them. Allah guideth not a people unjust.”
Allah’s apostle (Mohammad) said, “There is no Hijra (i.e. migration from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but jihad and good intentions remain; AND IF YOU ARE CALLED (BY THE MUSLIM LEADER) FOR FIGHTING, GO FORTH IMMEDIATELY.
The Koran is full of contradictions. When Mohammad was asked why the drastic changes, Allah revealed.  Surah 16:101, “And when We change a Verse (of the Qur’an) in place of another- and Allah knows best what He sends down-they (the disbelievers) say; “You (O Mohammad are but a Muftari (forger, liar).” Nay but most know not.”
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam; it will never be accepted of him. Surah 3:85.  

Please note that, this is a result of my own research. When I was writing in the Net just after 9/11, there were no sites to copy and paste from, not that I know of anyway. Muslims and others argued and challanged me. Others asked many questions. As a result, I accumulated about 40 essays in various topics in my computer where I copy and paste FROM MY OWN WRITINGS (TYPING).

As for Taha Hussein, I noticed that some one, thankfully, gave an idea baout him.
Let me add, that he was the Minister of Education for few years.

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