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how did islam become majority n syria/iraq/egypt/persia etc?
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: how did islam become majority n syria/iraq/egypt/persia etc?  Reply with quote

hi

i have been wondering how and why islam spread. i was wondering.. was it by force or was it by choice? and how long did it take before these regions(syria,persia,iraq,palestine,egypt,morocco,indonesia,etc) become muslim?

is it true that the egyptians were forced to convert to islam and so were the syrians, or is that a lie made up by silly people?

what was the reasons people were converting?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: how did islam become majority n syria/iraq/egypt/persia Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
hi

i have been wondering how and why islam spread. i was wondering.. was it by force or was it by choice? and how long did it take before these regions(syria,persia,iraq,palestine,egypt,morocco,indonesia,etc) become muslim?

is it true that the egyptians were forced to convert to islam and so were the syrians, or is that a lie made up by silly people?

what was the reasons people were converting?


Hi shaq

Without having to much knowledge of it, I would assume that the reasons people converted to islam in the haydays was mixed. Some was forced, others did it for political reasons, others thought that it was "the right path", others again just followed the actions of their "leaders", being kings, chiefs etc. and possible other reasons.

But then again I'm speaking from lesser knowledge about it, but perhaps we can make some discovering together Very Happy

Cheers and peace
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question.

But before we answer this, we can look at how christianity spread across Europe, the treatment of fellow christian sects ( not toforget the irradiction of anyone with another religion) and we can also think about how some countries spread their ideology as we have seen in recent time......yet...we talk of the Islamic threat!

Without going into specifics, yes, it can be argued that indeed Islaam at times did spread by teh sword, the question is, whow as the sword directed to? Thats the crux oif thematter, with another nations, it ws against the people, with Islaam, it was with goverments and armies.

You can see, when Muslim conquered a land, they never destroyed their places of worship ( look at the history of Muslim spain), or forcefully changed peoples religions, because Islaam came for the ruling of 'Tawheed' to be dominant, not the belief in and of itself i.e we can never force anyone, because Islaam is against the formation of 'munaqfiqeen' or hypocrites( as they are a danger for Islaam).
Also, we have theproof: just look at egypt today, its still 10% christian! where as look at 'Muslim Spain; now, its 0% Muslim.
Anyways, whats the big deal, people embraced Islaam because they saw many factors, such as the trinity of christinaity weird, and the lakc of jutice of that religion. I think we should accept history, not fight it.

At other times, the sword was not needed to open up lands, as we saw with the biggest Muslim population today.........Indonesia......................
tell me, how did Islaam spread there? hmm, maybe it would be good to google that.

Hope that helps.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ameen wrote:
Interesting question.

But before we answer this, we can look at how christianity spread across Europe, the treatment of fellow christian sects ( not toforget the irradiction of anyone with another religion) and we can also think about how some countries spread their ideology as we have seen in recent time......yet...we talk of the Islamic threat!


Interesting how you made the case of Islam milder, but introducing similar incidents that happened outside of Islam.
This is a "red herring" my friend!

Quote:
Without going into specifics, yes, it can be argued that indeed Islaam at times did spread by teh sword, the question is, whow as the sword directed to? Thats the crux oif thematter, with another nations, it ws against the people, with Islaam, it was with goverments and armies.


Really? And once you take over the rule of the country, how do you convert the common people? Do you just send your preachers or do what actually happened? and you know what really happened!
Quote:

You can see, when Muslim conquered a land, they never destroyed their places of worship ( look at the history of Muslim spain), or forcefully changed peoples religions, because Islaam came for the ruling of 'Tawheed' to be dominant, not the belief in and of itself i.e we can never force anyone, because Islaam is against the formation of 'munaqfiqeen' or hypocrites( as they are a danger for Islaam).


Are you joking? Turkey is full of churches that were converted into mosques. What ever happened to the Buddha statues in Afghanistan!
Quote:

Also, we have theproof: just look at egypt today, its still 10% christian! where as look at 'Muslim Spain; now, its 0% Muslim.Anyways, whats the big deal, people embraced Islaam because they saw many factors, such as the trinity of christinaity weird, and the lakc of jutice of that religion. I think we should accept history, not fight it.


I am an Egyptian, remember? Christian girls get kidnapped on daily basis in Egypt and forced into marriage to Muslims, so that they can convert them.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: how did islam become majority n syria/iraq/egypt/persia Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
hi

i have been wondering how and why islam spread. i was wondering.. was it by force or was it by choice? and how long did it take before these regions(syria,persia,iraq,palestine,egypt,morocco,indonesia,etc) become muslim?

is it true that the egyptians were forced to convert to islam and so were the syrians, or is that a lie made up by silly people?

what was the reasons people were converting?


Hi Shaq

Islam spread by the sword in it's early stage, no question about it! Muslims sent armies, not preachers.

And it's logic, once you have few countries under your arm, then let people "reproduce", set back and watch.

Of course some people converted to Islam willingly as it suits their agenda, or their concept of human conduct.

Remember what I am going to say very well, this will help you throughout your life.

An idea that it's held by a large number of people does not make it necessarily true!

At some stage the entire world thought the earth was flat, we know better now, no thanks to religion!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="All_Brains"]
Ameen wrote:
Interesting question.

But before we answer this, we can look at how christianity spread across Europe, the treatment of fellow christian sects ( not toforget the irradiction of anyone with another religion) and we can also think about how some countries spread their ideology as we have seen in recent time......yet...we talk of the Islamic threat!


Quote:
Interesting how you made the case of Islam milder, but introducing similar incidents that happened outside of Islam.
This is a "red herring" my friend!



yes it was neccesary to make teh case miler, because many of tehse critics of Islaam do not use teh same standard with the secular ideologies they promote, why don;t they go on a rant and rave about them aswell as Islaam?

Quote:
Without going into specifics, yes, it can be argued that indeed Islaam at times did spread by teh sword, the question is, whow as the sword directed to? Thats the crux oif thematter, with another nations, it ws against the people, with Islaam, it was with goverments and armies.


Quote:
Really? And once you take over the rule of the country, how do you convert the common people? Do you just send your preachers or do what actually happened? and you know what really happened!


yes I know what happend. they implemnted Islaam in he society, and people voluntarily came to Islaam, as they are coming now ( and there is no caliphate). I think the problem is you find it hard to fathom that people like Islaam when you don't. Have you ever considered people came to Islaam because of their own free will?


Quote:

You can see, when Muslim conquered a land, they never destroyed their places of worship ( look at the history of Muslim spain), or forcefully changed peoples religions, because Islaam came for the ruling of 'Tawheed' to be dominant, not the belief in and of itself i.e we can never force anyone, because Islaam is against the formation of 'munaqfiqeen' or hypocrites( as they are a danger for Islaam).


Quote:
Are you joking? Turkey is full of churches that were converted into mosques. What ever happened to the Buddha statues in Afghanistan!


re Turkey: there are many churces in turkey and synagogues, even the primer in history will know that after the fall of andalus, the Jews came to ottoman turker Smile.........FACT, and it ws there capital FACT
re afghanistan: well they didn't just stumble upon them. what were they doing there for so mny years under muslim rule, and considering there are hardly any buddhists in aghanistan what difference does it make? furthermore, what about other nations that blow up mosques, do you show the same disgrace as you do here?

Quote:

Also, we have theproof: just look at egypt today, its still 10% christian! where as look at 'Muslim Spain; now, its 0% Muslim.Anyways, whats the big deal, people embraced Islaam because they saw many factors, such as the trinity of christinaity weird, and the lakc of jutice of that religion. I think we should accept history, not fight it.


Quote:
I am an Egyptian, remember? Christian girls get kidnapped on daily basis in Egypt and forced into marriage to Muslims, so that they can convert them.


You ran off at the age of 17, remember?

This trick won;t work, I know coptics egyptians, I know many egyptian Muslims, both practsing and not, and this bogus statement can never be justified. All_brains.............10% of egypt is Muslim, if there was a massacre, why are they there, and in paletine, syria, jordan etc?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ameen, dear... believer...

read this!

Quote:

source
http://hometown.aol.com/ahreemanxii/page13.html


From: Omar Ibn Al Khatab Khalifat Al Muslemin

To: Yazdgird III Shahanshah of Persian Empire


Yazdgird, I see not a fruitful future for you & your nation unless you accept my offer & commit Bei'at (Joining with Khalifat & bringing Islam). Once upon a time your land ruled half the known world but what has it come down to now? Your troops are defeated in all fronts & your nation is bound to collapse. I offer you a way to rescue yourself. Start praying to a mono God, a single union God, the only God who created everything in the universe. We bring you & the world his message, he who is the true God. Stop your Fire Worship, command your nation to stop their Fire Worship which is false; join us by joining the truth. Worship Allah O Akbar the only true God, The creator of universe. Worship to Allah & accept Islam as your salvation. End your Pagan ways & your false worships now & bring Islam so you can accept Allah O Akbar as your savior. By doing so, you will find the only way to your survival & peace for Persians. If you know what is best for Ajam (Arabic term for Persians meaning Retarded & Weird), you will choose this path. Bei'at is the only way.


Allah O Akbar


sign,


Khalifat Al Muslemin
Omar Ibn Al Khatab


------------------------------------



And heres Yazdgird III, famous response to Omar:


From: Shah of Shahs, Shah of Persia and Beyond, Shah of many Kingdoms, Shah of Aryans and Non Aryans, Shah of Persians and many other races as well as Arabs, Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid

To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs, meaning Arabian Hound Dogs)


In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life & Intelligence,

You in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah O Akbar, without having the true knowledge of who we are & what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia, & same as a desert tribal man!


"Little Man", you offer me to worship a united & single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God & they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture & art this has been the normal path of life for years.


When we established the tradition of hospitality & good deeds in the world & we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you & your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves & burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition, cause they preferred male children to female)!


Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives & steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone, we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these action?


You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator & power of inventor in the light of Sun & warmth of Fire. Lights & Warmth of the Sun & Fire makes us see the light of truth & warmens our hearts to the creator & to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another, it enlightens us & makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda & it is strange that you people also, just discovered him & named him Allah O Akbar! But we are not the same as you, we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear & poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. who is responsible for all this catastrophe?


Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage & to destroy?
Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name?
Or
Is it both?


You have risen from heat of the deserts & burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns & the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed! Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder & pillage in the name of Allah O Akbar, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from your Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others?


Alas, Oh Alas...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah & pray to him in Arabic, cause your Allah only understands Arabic!


I suggest, you & your gang of bandits pack up & move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards & drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities & our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women & children, rape our wives & send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah O Akbar, put a stop to your criminal behavior.


Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, & decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge & truth; therefore, they shall not punish you & your people for your pirate ways & criminal acts.


I beg you to remain with your Allah O Akbar in your deserts & do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believes are "Much Fearful" & your behavior is "Most Barbaric"!


sign,


Yazdgird III Sassanid

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: how did islam become majority n syria/iraq/egypt/persia Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:

Hi Shaq

Islam spread by the sword in it's early stage, no question about it! Muslims sent armies, not preachers.



Hellow All_Brains,

First of all, this is a wrong perception that in its early  stage Islam was spread by the sword.
If anyone look back to the History, you will find tha Muslims never attacked any nation without any reason. Like the persian emperor killed the diplomates from Islam and therefore killing diplomates is a crime agaisnt humanity, and Muslims went in war with them.


All_Brains wrote:
And it's logic, once you have few countries under your arm, then let people "reproduce", set back and watch.


Sorry bro. No logic is there.



All_Brains wrote:
Of course some people converted to Islam willingly as it suits their agenda, or their concept of human conduct.


Agenda!! Laughable, think about the Umar the emperor of the half of the then  word, he didnt have a palace that you would like, he didnt have a lot money! He used to lead his life and maintain family by doing other odd works. But he was the one of the most poewrfull man of then . So, think,   could  this be an agenda!!!



All_Brains wrote:
Remember what I am going to say very well, this will help you throughout your life.


This will certainly help all about the erroneus belief. I would like to thank you for trying to go against the motion. But the fact, you cant deny the truth by being on your logic that dont have any relation with the reality.



 
All_Brains wrote:
An idea that it's held by a large number of people does not make it necessarily true![/b]

At some stage the entire world thought the earth was flat, we know better now, no thanks to religion!


At some stage , the entire world was thought be flat. Right you are. But , look how astomishing it is that The Glorious Quran mentioned that 1400 century ago that the Earth  is not flat. what a co-incidence!!right! Very Happy



Peace.....
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Intellectual fighter

How about you and I pick a topic and go the one on one debate forum and shred it to pieces?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
Hello Intellectual fighter

How about you and I pick a topic and go the one on one debate forum and shred it to pieces?


No problem from my side , though sometimes I may come late.

Is that ok!

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