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The Criminals of Islam
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Wiking
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


So, you think that sura 9, the Muslim declaration of war upon mankind, must stand as it is? You find nothing cruel or otherwise wrong in it?
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets


Hello

But the government is not waging a war on you are they? killing people to get your taxmoney?

It's the idea of booty and war. You cannot seriously compare this to taxes.

Cheers


Hello

That should refute youself then, because it is more cruel to bloody take 46% of my money every fukin month, while the verse you are talking about is only talking about what we put our hands on from the enemy possesions after defeating them

i.e.

1) an army of Muslims is fighting an army of kafirs
2) the army of kafirs were defeated and left 5 camels behind

now what we should do with those 5 camels is simply as follow:

1) one camel goes to the Islamic state
2) 4 camels are distributed on all the believers

this camel kept for the state will be spent back on the state, letls say for argument sake, for the next bloody war

you have no point pal

salam
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiking wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


So, you think that sura 9, the Muslim declaration of war upon mankind, must stand as it is? You find nothing cruel or otherwise wrong in it?




I explained the verses in sura 9 thoroughly, there was no declaration of war but on those kafirs who don't want to comply with the new rules governing the house of Allah after being repossesed by the believers and achieving full authority over it

in fact the sura starts by a declaration of IMMUNITY to those kafirs who will comply, as well we should protect those kafirs and make them feel secure

are you that silly not to see the message after I have explained it in details and showing the verses one after the other?

please don't be arrogant seeing another lie about the Quran biting the dust

now if you want to argue that some confused Muslims may understand it wrong, then that is a totally different issues that I don't want to get into it because i agree that the human nature is flawed by nature

Salam
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And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets


Hello

But the government is not waging a war on you are they? killing people to get your taxmoney?

It's the idea of booty and war. You cannot seriously compare this to taxes.

Cheers


Hello

That should refute youself then, because it is more cruel to bloody take 46% of my money every fukin month, while the verse you are talking about is only talking about what we put our hands on from the enemy possesions after defeating them

i.e.

1) an army of Muslims is fighting an army of kafirs
2) the army of kafirs were defeated and left 5 camels behind

now what we should do with those 5 camels is simply as follow:

1) one camel goes to the Islamic state [I would say that its two camels, it 1/5 fifth each "god" and the messenger is having]2) 4 camels are distributed on all the believers


this camel kept for the state will be spent back on the state, letls say for argument sake, for the next bloody war

you have no point pal

salam


Really Ahmed you are expressing my point just fine.

Cheers.

EDIT: just highlighted how Ahmed expressed my point just fine!
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Last edited by Tvebak on Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries glad to be of a help

next
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Baal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wiking wrote:
Now Ahmet, I must say I do agree with you, albeit from a different perspective. The cold, callous cruelty found in many hadits is appalling. I don't mind the stupidity, but the violence is repulsive. But tell me, don't we also find repulsive cruelty in the Koran? What about sura 9 for instance?


No mate, I could not find anything cruel in the Quran other than the hell punishment, now that is not in this life nor it will be enforced by humans, and I do acceot the cruelty of god regardinig pushing those who reject his guidance, it's fair in my books


I find it cruel that "god" and his messengers are supposed to have 1/5 share of the booty. Just a mentioning of booty and war is a portrait of cruelty in my opinion.

Cheers



Hello

The money is not going to their pockets, the money is to establish the strong Islamic state and make it self sufficient regarding finance

In australia I found it cruel that I have to fukin pay 46% of my salary evey month as tax, however I do understand that the money collected will be spent back on building a stronger and more prosper state, not be taken in their pockets

Your comparison of war booty to state tax is dismissed Ahmed. IF the koran meant the state tax, then the koran would have found dozens better ways to ask for its share, then to dip in war booty.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Hi Ahmed

You postulates some things about the prophet which you basicly don't know.


Hello

Yes I do know, it is you who don't know

did you read the 9 books of hadith complete in Arabic?

if no, then please sthu

Tvebak wrote:
You don't know wether he asked people to write down and remember all the things he said and did, do you? I'm not argueing against the historical invalidity of the hadith. Your claim is just a bit to arrogant.

Cheers.


of course he did, he ordered them not to write anything but the Quran, would you like to see the hearsay hadith from the 9 books of hadith?

Too many points you are raising ahmad, first it is not up to him to tell us to write about him or not. Second, the hadith of him telling us not to write about him is false, as far as you are concerned. Third, What we have written about him, *Is the Islamic Story*. Remove the islamic story, and there will be no islam. The koran is not enough.

The koran contradicts the books it claims to be based on. Whether those prior books had been modified or not is irrelevant, what is relevant is that today, the books are so different that you can not take ANYTHING From them reliably into the story of islam. So the koran is NOT ENOUGH to build the *Story of Islam*. The previous books to islam are unusable. Where else do you expect people to get their story of islam?

Now I can not help it if, the people around Mohammad, the people worshipping him like a god, in fact often more so then a god, could not write better material about him. They tried to write the best material about him, they hid the bad stuff as much as they can and still, this is what we are left with. The image of a 7th century thug with NO redeeming values for today. None.

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