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Why is the Quran the last message?
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Mutley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Dear Ahmed (or BMZ) could you gives us your views on the matter. Why do you consider the Quran to be the last message?

Cheers


Just saw your post . By the way, I am not Ahmed.  Smile

Now to your question."Why do you consider the Quran to be the last message?"

Because Qur'aan, in the opening verse, after the opening words Alif, Laam, Meem, makes a very powerful declaration, which is: "ZAALIK-AL-KITAAB  and it means "This IS the Book".

Once it has been declared that Qur'aan IS the Book, the question of another book or other books coming after does not arise.

BMZ


Hi BMZ

Thanks for the answer.

And no I did not think you are Ahmed  Wink

Well I don't consider this as a "powerful declaration", it just says "this is the book", or as Shakir renders it "this book". Anyways you have to take what follows in consideration; "there's no doubt therein" or the like. It proclaims that it's a "good", or a special, book, but it does not proclaim that it will be the last book send down, at least not in that verse.

Cheers.


Hi Tvebak,

Shakir's translation is just a very ordinary translation. Shakir and Hilali & Mohsin Khan, followed that translation using the first translation in English by Maulana Muhammad Ali of India. It is not a scholarly translation.

The verse is "Zaalik-al-kitabo laa raib". Translated word by word, it would mean "This is the book no doubt." Al-kitaab means The Book.

In proper English, it would mean,"Without any doubt, this is the Book.

The verse does not mean, "This is the Book. There is no doubt in it."

Cheers

BMZ


Well, the way I read it, it meant "I'm lying to you, but don't tell anybody else".  Laughing   Laughing  

But on a more serious note, the second translation seems to fit well with the concept that they would find much discrepancy in it if it wasn't true, and the challenge of writing a sura like it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

The Quran is the last message from the one and only God, the one who also sent the Zaboor, Torah and Injil

show us other books that the same god sent after the Quran and when you do you will prove your case, until then the Quran will stay the last message from the one and only God

Salam


Hello Ahmed

That is not the point of this thread, the point is why is the quran the last message according to the quran itself. Please feel free to put forward your arguments.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
Dear Ahmed (or BMZ) could you gives us your views on the matter. Why do you consider the Quran to be the last message?

Cheers


Just saw your post . By the way, I am not Ahmed.  Smile

Now to your question."Why do you consider the Quran to be the last message?"

Because Qur'aan, in the opening verse, after the opening words Alif, Laam, Meem, makes a very powerful declaration, which is: "ZAALIK-AL-KITAAB  and it means "This IS the Book".

Once it has been declared that Qur'aan IS the Book, the question of another book or other books coming after does not arise.

BMZ


Hi BMZ

Thanks for the answer.

And no I did not think you are Ahmed  Wink

Well I don't consider this as a "powerful declaration", it just says "this is the book", or as Shakir renders it "this book". Anyways you have to take what follows in consideration; "there's no doubt therein" or the like. It proclaims that it's a "good", or a special, book, but it does not proclaim that it will be the last book send down, at least not in that verse.

Cheers.


Hi Tvebak,

Shakir's translation is just a very ordinary translation. Shakir and Hilali & Mohsin Khan, followed that translation using the first translation in English by Maulana Muhammad Ali of India. It is not a scholarly translation.

The verse is "Zaalik-al-kitabo laa raib". Translated word by word, it would mean "This is the book no doubt." Al-kitaab means The Book.

In proper English, it would mean,"Without any doubt, this is the Book.

The verse does not mean, "This is the Book. There is no doubt in it."

Cheers

BMZ


Hi BMZ

As I said in the my last comment this does not state that it's the last book! It states that it's a special book. And this is the case no matter how the "proper english" sounds. I understand your emphazing the "the", but please try to understand that it can be understood differently  Wink  Now I cannot believe that this is the only thing you rely on?

Cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

The Quran is the last message from the one and only God, the one who also sent the Zaboor, Torah and Injil

show us other books that the same god sent after the Quran and when you do you will prove your case, until then the Quran will stay the last message from the one and only God

Salam


Hello Ahmed

That is not the point of this thread, the point is why is the quran the last message according to the quran itself. Please feel free to put forward your arguments.

Cheers


Hello

well, if there was  a first message then there must be a lsat message and it just happen to all of us that it is the Quran, now if you don't like that it is the last message then tough luck to you

cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

The Quran is the last message from the one and only God, the one who also sent the Zaboor, Torah and Injil

show us other books that the same god sent after the Quran and when you do you will prove your case, until then the Quran will stay the last message from the one and only God

Salam


Hello Ahmed

That is not the point of this thread, the point is why is the quran the last message according to the quran itself. Please feel free to put forward your arguments.

Cheers


Hello

well, if there was  a first message then there must be a lsat message and it just happen to all of us that it is the Quran, now if you don't like that it is the last message then tough luck to you

cheers


Hello Ahmed

I'm sure that you understand that this is not what I wanted this thread to be about. I wanted people to argue from the quran wether it says it is the last book/message or not. I'm sure you can put up a coherent and well articulated argument for that quran says that it is the last message.

Cheers.

PS. And you should know by now that I don't consider there have ever been a "message" since there's none to give that message, in my barbie-world.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Tvebak wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello all

The Quran is the last message from the one and only God, the one who also sent the Zaboor, Torah and Injil

show us other books that the same god sent after the Quran and when you do you will prove your case, until then the Quran will stay the last message from the one and only God

Salam


Hello Ahmed

That is not the point of this thread, the point is why is the quran the last message according to the quran itself. Please feel free to put forward your arguments.

Cheers


Hello

well, if there was  a first message then there must be a lsat message and it just happen to all of us that it is the Quran, now if you don't like that it is the last message then tough luck to you

cheers


Hello Ahmed

I'm sure that you understand that this is not what I wanted this thread to be about. I wanted people to argue from the quran wether it says it is the last book/message or not. I'm sure you can put up a coherent and well articulated argument for that quran says that it is the last message.

Cheers.

PS. And you should know by now that I don't consider there have ever been a "message" since there's none to give that message, in my barbie-world.


Hello

Well, if you are living your barbie world, why you think I should consider that?

well, it makes no difference to me that you indulge yourself in your barbie world, what makes a differnce to you is the so many stupid questions you ask while you never acceot an answer, in a way you are nothing but an arrogant time bandit

cheers
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[The Quran ; 17:81]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:

Hello

Well, if you are living your barbie world, why you think I should consider that?

well, it makes no difference to me that you indulge yourself in your barbie world, what makes a differnce to you is the so many stupid questions you ask while you never acceot an answer, in a way you are nothing but an arrogant time bandit

cheers


Hello

If you don't want to contribute to the subject on the thread, then please don't waste space with your personal opinion about my person.

As to not accept an answer, I accept answers but I would like to have the freedom to discuss them anyway.

Cheers


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