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The qu'ran and homosexuality
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HomoErectus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Dear Ahmed

So, how would you then get "classified" within "Islam" ?

I gather that you consider most of the muslims as actually being pagans, following a completely falsified version of this belief.

Now, again, I can understand your logic - and I've read it myself - that mohammad ordered his folks to follow the quran only... and the "sunna"...

But then isn't it all about hadiths, when you follow "sunna" ?

Where do you get the details of how to live "islamic", if not from the narratives, the tales and fables ?

You deliberately pick a few hadiths, declare them "valid", and dump all the rest... rightfully so, how can you believe stories that have been written/invented [like muhadiths do !] hundreds of years later, after muhammads death...

and of course this collection of TALES makes islam very vulnerable, any person with sane mind will come to shake his head in disbelief of what he's just reading in some of these "hadiths"...

Okay, so you are "Quran-Only-Muslim", and I know that this "class" of muslims exists...

How many are you ?
Maybe 2 or 3 percent of all muslims ?

Sunnites, Shiites, Alevis, Ahmadiya, Sufi, etc. - all are committing "shirk"
all of them actually apostates, and sort of pagans - meaning you think that 97 % of muslims are actually no more muslims !

Okay, "Quran Only" - don't we also find stuff that can only be classified as being "absurd" in the quran too, not in hadith only... ?

Without getting into the well-known details...

Don't you think - considering that you also accept that the Quran is "hear-say" - that after looking at it in such a way, it would be time to maybe question the whole thing - "Islam" - scrutinize it bit by bit, word by word, meaning by understanding and relation to the realities around you, the scientific developments and knowledge of today ?

In short - how can you still be a muslim ?
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
Dear Ahmed


Hello


HomoErectus wrote:
So, how would you then get "classified" within "Islam" ?


I really careless to be classfied by the people regarding Islam, what I care about is to be classified by Allah regarding His religion, now I can't know what exactly He is classifying me under, I only hope to be classified as a true Muslim to Him

HomoErectus wrote:
I gather that you consider most of the muslims as actually being pagans, following a completely falsified version of this belief.


The Quran confirms the above statemenet

HomoErectus wrote:
Now, again, I can understand your logic - and I've read it myself - that mohammad ordered his folks to follow the quran only... and the "sunna"...


Where exactly the prophet said so?

if you will bring a hadith that he said so, then I will bring another version of the same hadith from the same hadith books that the prophet said that he leaves with us the Quran ONLY.

now which version is right, you reckon?

I tell ya, we will never know

HomoErectus wrote:
But then isn't it all about hadiths, when you follow "sunna" ?


The practical sunnah which is only inherited as a word of mouth, I have never seen a hadith that states the salat in details.

HomoErectus wrote:
Where do you get the details of how to live "islamic", if not from the narratives, the tales and fables ?


From the Quran only

HomoErectus wrote:
You deliberately pick a few hadiths, declare them "valid",


I have never ever declared a hadith to be valid, simply I can't

HomoErectus wrote:
and dump all the rest... rightfully so, how can you believe stories that have been written/invented [like muhadiths do !] hundreds of years later, after muhammads death...


I donlt believe any hearsay but the Quram, however I'm happy to accept that a hearsay may be true  if it is confirmed by the Quran

HomoErectus wrote:
and of course this collection of TALES makes islam very vulnerable, any person with sane mind will come to shake his head in disbelief of what he's just reading in some of these "hadiths"...


Not all of it

HomoErectus wrote:
Okay, so you are "Quran-Only-Muslim",


Under my understanding of Quran only Muslim, yes I'm

HomoErectus wrote:
and I know that this "class" of muslims exists...


Actually, I donlt beling to such people whom you know, again, I;m only a Quran only Muslim under my definition of a Quran only, not under the definition that you know from such sect followers, in fact I'm totally against the sect called Quran only Muslims. those are the ones who also reject the practical sunnah, i.e. the sunnah that we inherited through the word of mouth, like how to pray for example

HomoErectus wrote:
How many are you ?
Maybe 2 or 3 percent of all muslims ?


Don't know, but we are very little and that ios also confirmed by the Quran

HomoErectus wrote:
Sunnites, Shiites, Alevis, Ahmadiya, Sufi, etc. - all are committing "shirk"


Of course anysect follower is a Mushrik because they listend to satan

HomoErectus wrote:
all of them actually apostates,


They can't be apostates, logically speaking

HomoErectus wrote:
and sort of pagans - meaning you think that 97 % of muslims are actually no more muslims !


again, I never put a figure to it, but I agree that most so called Muslims are confused and following a manipulated religion

HomoErectus wrote:
Okay, "Quran Only" - don't we also find stuff that can only be classified as being "absurd" in the quran too, not in hadith only... ?


Never found any

HomoErectus wrote:
Without getting into the well-known details...

Don't you think - considering that you also accept that the Quran is "hear-say" - that after looking at it in such a way, it would be time to maybe question the whole thing - "Islam" - scrutinize it bit by bit, word by word, meaning by understanding and relation to the realities around you, the scientific developments and knowledge of today ?


For me the Quran is eternal since itsday of revelation and suit any age

HomoErectus wrote:
In short - how can you still be a muslim ?


I will always be unless Allah wants otherwise
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infidel
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The practical sunnah which is only inherited as a word of mouth, I have never seen a hadith that states the salat in details.


That was classic, Ahmed.  Surprised

You don't believe in HEARSAY which is in written form (hadiths) for atleast 1200 years but you believe in hearsay (word of mouth) which is not even in written form till date (1400 years).  Laughing

I can understand your problem that you can't defend hadiths but you have to belive in rituals (though inheruted through word of mouth only) in order to keep yourself praying. I wonder, if you reject till-date hearsay, how will you do salat etc?  Wink
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AhmedBahgat
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

infidel wrote:
Quote:
The practical sunnah which is only inherited as a word of mouth, I have never seen a hadith that states the salat in details.


That was classic, Ahmed.  Surprised

You don't believe in HEARSAY which is in written form (hadiths) for atleast 1200 years but you believe in hearsay (word of mouth) which is not even in written form till date (1400 years).  Laughing

I can understand your problem that you can't defend hadiths but you have to belive in rituals (though inheruted through word of mouth only) in order to keep yourself praying. I wonder, if you reject till-date hearsay, how will you do salat etc?  Wink



why don't you go and piss on yourself you filthy troll?


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