FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups  Who is OnlineWho is Online   Join! (free) Join! (free)  
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
  • Welcome
  • Guest

  • Main Menu
  • Sticky Articles
  • Open Support Tickets
Misinformation and Misreporting in the Quran
Page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Please Register and Login to this forum to stop seeing this advertising.






Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
Posted:     Post subject:

Back to top
Fathom
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 106



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Fathom wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Fathom wrote:
One of the biggest problems I had with Islam is that the Muslims denied that Jesus was crucified according to how they "interpret" 4.157 in the Quran. I have investigated this verse extensively, and state without doubt that 4.157 does not in any way, shape, or form deny that Jesus was crucified. It only denies the boast of the Jews who claimed responsibility.


Thanks for your reply. That denial cannot be covered in a short post here. However, instead of going through the entire 4:157, please tell me what does this part tell you, just this part, nothingelse.

"wa ma qataluho, wa ma salabuho."

BMZ


did not kill.
did not crucify.


Not entirely accurate

I advice you to try to be 100% accurate when debating knowledgeable Muslims, what i meann by knowledgeable is them knowing the Quran a to z

now your translation above should be as follow:

and they did not kill him and they did not crucify him


It's actually precise in English, but what you mean is that the words in Arabic imply more. There is no "and," "they," in those words, but they are implied in Arabic despite not actually being there.

Well,  the "him" is there.

And where I live there is nothing Arabic to learn. And since I was a Muslim, do you think I have a credit card to buy Arabic learning stuff online?

I still don't have credit. Some old habits are hard to break.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Fathom wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Fathom wrote:
One of the biggest problems I had with Islam is that the Muslims denied that Jesus was crucified according to how they "interpret" 4.157 in the Quran. I have investigated this verse extensively, and state without doubt that 4.157 does not in any way, shape, or form deny that Jesus was crucified. It only denies the boast of the Jews who claimed responsibility.


Thanks for your reply. That denial cannot be covered in a short post here. However, instead of going through the entire 4:157, please tell me what does this part tell you, just this part, nothingelse.

"wa ma qataluho, wa ma salabuho."

BMZ


did not kill.
did not crucify.


Not entirely accurate

I advice you to try to be 100% accurate when debating knowledgeable Muslims, what i meann by knowledgeable is them knowing the Quran a to z

now your translation above should be as follow:

and they did not kill him and they did not crucify him




Fathom wrote:
It's actually precise in English,



that shows how lilttle you know Arabic, in fact you don't know it at all

your english translation is not accurate, it's actually for the novices not for the professionals

Fathom wrote:

but what you mean is that the words in Arabic imply more.


the word in arabic imply what they imply

Wa Ma Qataluh should be in And they did not kill him

The they is called Damir Muqaddar, that is how Arabic is dealt with

Fathom wrote:


There is no "and," "they," in those words,


Wa = And

i.e. Wa Ma Qataluh, Wa Ma Salbuh = And they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him

Fathom wrote:

but they are implied in Arabic despite not actually being there.


yep, and that is what we are talking about, what the words imply in their context, noot to take them out of the context and eal with it seprately

Fathom wrote:

Well,  the "him" is there.



and "and" is there, only they is noot there however in Arabic we don't need it because it is Muqddarah, i.e. it is there but not mentioned at all

Fathom wrote:

And where I live there is nothing Arabic to learn.


is the Quran there where you live?

if yes then I have a surprise to you, the Quran is in Arabic, so if you dare to talk about it then you need to always refer to its Arabic

Fathom wrote:

And since I was a Muslim, do you think I have a credit card to buy Arabic learning stuff online?


dismissed

Fathom wrote:

I still don't have credit. Some old habits are hard to break.


of coourse you have no credit when it comes to the Arabic Quran
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fathom
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 106



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Fathom wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Fathom wrote:
One of the biggest problems I had with Islam is that the Muslims denied that Jesus was crucified according to how they "interpret" 4.157 in the Quran. I have investigated this verse extensively, and state without doubt that 4.157 does not in any way, shape, or form deny that Jesus was crucified. It only denies the boast of the Jews who claimed responsibility.


Thanks for your reply. That denial cannot be covered in a short post here. However, instead of going through the entire 4:157, please tell me what does this part tell you, just this part, nothingelse.

"wa ma qataluho, wa ma salabuho."

BMZ


did not kill.
did not crucify.


Not entirely accurate

I advice you to try to be 100% accurate when debating knowledgeable Muslims, what i meann by knowledgeable is them knowing the Quran a to z

now your translation above should be as follow:

and they did not kill him and they did not crucify him




Fathom wrote:
It's actually precise in English,



that shows how lilttle you know Arabic, in fact you don't know it at all

your english translation is not accurate, it's actually for the novices not for the professionals

Fathom wrote:

but what you mean is that the words in Arabic imply more.


the word in arabic imply what they imply

Wa Ma Qataluh should be in And they did not kill him

The they is called Damir Muqaddar, that is how Arabic is dealt with

Fathom wrote:


There is no "and," "they," in those words,


Wa = And

i.e. Wa Ma Qataluh, Wa Ma Salbuh = And they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him

Fathom wrote:

but they are implied in Arabic despite not actually being there.


yep, and that is what we are talking about, what the words imply in their context, noot to take them out of the context and eal with it seprately

Fathom wrote:

Well,  the "him" is there.



and "and" is there, only they is noot there however in Arabic we don't need it because it is Muqddarah, i.e. it is there but not mentioned at all

Fathom wrote:

And where I live there is nothing Arabic to learn.


is the Quran there where you live?

if yes then I have a surprise to you, the Quran is in Arabic, so if you dare to talk about it then you need to always refer to its Arabic

Fathom wrote:

And since I was a Muslim, do you think I have a credit card to buy Arabic learning stuff online?


dismissed

Fathom wrote:

I still don't have credit. Some old habits are hard to break.


of coourse you have no credit when it comes to the Arabic Quran


Dummy!

No credit means I wont pay interest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AhmedBahgat
Golden Member
Golden Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 671


Location: Australia
Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fathom wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Fathom wrote:
BMZ wrote:
Fathom wrote:
One of the biggest problems I had with Islam is that the Muslims denied that Jesus was crucified according to how they "interpret" 4.157 in the Quran. I have investigated this verse extensively, and state without doubt that 4.157 does not in any way, shape, or form deny that Jesus was crucified. It only denies the boast of the Jews who claimed responsibility.


Thanks for your reply. That denial cannot be covered in a short post here. However, instead of going through the entire 4:157, please tell me what does this part tell you, just this part, nothingelse.

"wa ma qataluho, wa ma salabuho."

BMZ


did not kill.
did not crucify.


Not entirely accurate

I advice you to try to be 100% accurate when debating knowledgeable Muslims, what i meann by knowledgeable is them knowing the Quran a to z

now your translation above should be as follow:

and they did not kill him and they did not crucify him




Fathom wrote:
It's actually precise in English,



that shows how lilttle you know Arabic, in fact you don't know it at all

your english translation is not accurate, it's actually for the novices not for the professionals

Fathom wrote:

but what you mean is that the words in Arabic imply more.


the word in arabic imply what they imply

Wa Ma Qataluh should be in And they did not kill him

The they is called Damir Muqaddar, that is how Arabic is dealt with

Fathom wrote:


There is no "and," "they," in those words,


Wa = And

i.e. Wa Ma Qataluh, Wa Ma Salbuh = And they did not kill him, and they did not crucify him

Fathom wrote:

but they are implied in Arabic despite not actually being there.


yep, and that is what we are talking about, what the words imply in their context, noot to take them out of the context and eal with it seprately

Fathom wrote:

Well,  the "him" is there.



and "and" is there, only they is noot there however in Arabic we don't need it because it is Muqddarah, i.e. it is there but not mentioned at all

Fathom wrote:

And where I live there is nothing Arabic to learn.


is the Quran there where you live?

if yes then I have a surprise to you, the Quran is in Arabic, so if you dare to talk about it then you need to always refer to its Arabic

Fathom wrote:

And since I was a Muslim, do you think I have a credit card to buy Arabic learning stuff online?


dismissed

Fathom wrote:

I still don't have credit. Some old habits are hard to break.


of coourse you have no credit when it comes to the Arabic Quran


Dummy!

No credit means I wont pay interest.



hmmmm, have another go at it, pal
_________________
And say: Truth has arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is bound to perish.
[The Quran ; 17:81]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fathom wrote:


and was dead against the practice of praying to Mary, the mother of Jesus.  


I'm dead set against praying to Mary, too.

Fathom wrote:


But my biggest problem was that I learned what Jesus Christ was actually saying, and it had no resemblance to what the Christians are preaching.


What do you think Jesus was actually saying that Christians are not preaching?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fathom
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 106



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
Fathom wrote:


and was dead against the practice of praying to Mary, the mother of Jesus.  


I'm dead set against praying to Mary, too.

Fathom wrote:


But my biggest problem was that I learned what Jesus Christ was actually saying, and it had no resemblance to what the Christians are preaching.


What do you think Jesus was actually saying that Christians are not preaching?


One example can be found on the following thread, which I just copied over to this forum from FFI:

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/sutra4232.php#4232
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 157



Add Karma

rated by members
Add Comment
Show Comments


online/offline
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fathom wrote:


One example can be found on the following thread, which I just copied over to this forum from FFI:

http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/sutra4232.php#4232


I printed out your post and will read it.  If I have comments, I will put them in the thread you cited.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FREE FAITH, EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT Forum Index -> The Qur'an All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13
Page 13 of 13
 
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum