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All_Brains Vs. Ahmed Bahgat
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All_Brains
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
All_Brains wrote:
Sure Ahmed, so instead of the shift of position your money is on shifting or directing of attention, however you now ran into a bigger problem, as for Allah to shift his attention in order to focus on something other than what he was doing before, makes his position as omniscient and omnipotent very questionable!!!

I expect the one true God to be able to multi-task!


Hello A_B

Why you say to focus His attention on something other than what He was doing before?

come on, it's logical that If He finished what He was doing He may shift  His attention into another task according to a timeline in His plan

Your questions above is irrellevent to our discussion, which is not the nature of the God, however I eaplained to you what the Quran words might be and still you try to create any holes to suit your disbelief

Simply everything that Allah does is according to An Ajal Maaloom, i.e. a known appointed time

Therefore if Allah was doing a task let's say for argument sake on day one then on day two He moved on to another task, etc etc, this should in no way contradicts His omniscient nor His omnipotent neither HIs omnipresent

Salam


Very good Ahmed! Let's call it a night and I will raise point 4 tomorrow.

Hope you feel better already and will speak to you tomorrow.

Good night.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great A_B

Have a good night mate, talk to you tomorrow Inshaallah
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of discussion # 4

Quote:

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً قَالُواْ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاء وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمون

Shakir 2:30 And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

yusufali 2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Pickthal 2:30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

Al-Hilali 2:30 And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (All‚h) said: "I know that which you do not know."


Hello Ahmed

I am confused about a few things in these verses, they are as follows:

1. Why is God consulting with the Angels?
2. Why do the angles argue with God?
3. How can angels do or say anything that is not instructed by the lord.
4. The angels declare that the only glorify and praise God, therefore he shouldn't be creating mischievous beings!!!
5. God is responding to the angels having been challenged with an answer they should have known already!!!
6. God is declaring his intention to create man on earth, exposing the plot of the apple and the tree and his pre-determination of Adam actions before the fall!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point of discussion # 4

Quote:

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً قَالُواْ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاء وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمون

Shakir 2:30 And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

yusufali 2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Pickthal 2:30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

Al-Hilali 2:30 And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (All‚h) said: "I know that which you do not know."


All_Brains wrote:
Hello Ahmed


Salam A_B

All_Brains wrote:
I am confused about a few things in these verses, they are as follows:


There will be no confusion inshaallah

All_Brains wrote:
1. Why is God consulting with the Angels?


Why you are calling it a consultation?

God was never consulting the angels (taking their opinion), He was only INFORMING them with His intentions, now if you ask me why He was informing the angels?

I say: why not?

Indeed the angels are servants to the humans, it is their right to know Allah's intention of creating another creature whom the angels will be serving, this was obvious when He ordered them to bow to Adam

It is not like He created Adam behind their back then all of a sudden He orders them to bow to an unknown creature which of course He still can do it, but He chose to inform the angels of the creation of the creature whom they will be serving


[quote="All_Brains"]2. Why do the angles argue with God?
Quote:


Again, why you call it an argument?

It was a mere question to why, yet their question was based on their ignorance and their prejudice against all humanity because not all humans shed blood on earth

[quote="All_Brains"]3. How can angels do or say anything that is not instructed by the lord.


well, they are not puppets rather respected creatures and most respected by Allah Himself, they even discussed the matter between themselves (possibly) thinking that Allah may not know what they confided between themselves, the bottom line that the angels are intelligent creatures not puppets

All_Brains wrote:
4. The angels declare that the only glorify and praise God, therefore he shouldn't be creating mischievous beings!!!


well, donít compare apple with oranges, the angels will not be held to account while the humans and possibly other creatures will be held to account, i.e. the humans at least were given far more freedom than the angels and unfortunately too much freedom is too bad, that freedom given was used to shed blood on earth but whoever sheds blood on earth wonít escape the account and whoever is slain, will be revived, it is all about testing then holding to account, the angels are not from among those creatures

All_Brains wrote:
5. God is responding to the angels having been challenged with an answer they should have known already!!


I could not understand what you mean, can you elaborate?


All_Brains wrote:
6. God is declaring his intention to create man on earth, exposing the plot of the apple and the tree and his pre-determination of Adam actions before the fall!!!



I will accept the word declaring because it is far more accurate than consulting, however you still need to elaborate regarding the above because I could not understand what you mean

Salam
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ahmed

I hope you forgive, as I have not posted for a while. I was travelling intrastate
to give few lectures in various universities. I noticed from your posts that you're very busy yourself.

I will be posting again this weekend!

Regards to and your family.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:
Dear Ahmed

I hope you forgive, as I have not posted for a while. I was travelling intrastate
to give few lectures in various universities. I noticed from your posts that you're very busy yourself.

I will be posting again this weekend!

Regards to and your family.


Salam mate

No appolgies required bro, this is a mere discussion, take all the time you want, I won't rant about any delays

Indeed I'm too busy

Likewise for the regards mate

Salam
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello A_B

Hope you and the family are doing great, let me show you something mate then I would like to ask you a question and this time I will listen to your professional opinion regarding the mentality of such American woman:

I was reading many stories on the net and I stumbled accross this reply by a Muslim revert, her words was just so simple but very stricking, it stroke me as a Muslim, I wonder what it does to the non Muslims:

----------------------------------
Being a revert post-911, I think the reason there is such a steady growth in the religion is because having been brought to the forefront of the liberal media, people are curious. Those that seek to gain knowledge and truth regarding Islam, with a pure heart and open mind, see the beauty of the religion and once the truth is before them, there is no way they can deny what they have learned.

I came to Islam as a devout Christian seeking understanding as to why such a horrible and violent religion could do what was done to my country. I knew little to nothing about Islam other than what I had seen through the media. I thank God now for the gentle prodding I received from Him in regards to finding my own answers.

I do not believe anything different today than I did prior to embracing Islam other than I now do believe that Muhammad (pbuh) is the final prophet of God.

The one thing that was evident was that no one forced me to accept Islam. And I now understand that because of my own free will, I believe there is "no compulsion in religion". Unlike the way I was as a Christian, always trying to force-feed my religion down the throats of non-believers, I now live my life for only the worship of God and if asked about my religion, I share it humbly with no expectations. It is only God who guides people to accept His plan for their lives. Alhamdulillah!

Ghaliyah

------------------------------------------------

Source: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answe...uestion?qid=20080224123313AAaxqk8

See mate:

It is really simple to how people can get help and guidance from Allah (at least removing the veil), they have to admit their ignorance as well drop their arrogance and I'm 100% sure that the divine help and guidance will be on their way

Now let me ask you mate, do you think that this american woman is insane, dumb and stupid?

Cheers
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hello A_B

Hope you and the family are doing great, let me show you something mate then I would like to ask you a question and this time I will listen to your professional opinion regarding the mentality of such American woman:

I was reading many stories on the net and I stumbled accross this reply by a Muslim revert, her words was just so simple but very stricking, it stroke me as a Muslim, I wonder what it does to the non Muslims:

----------------------------------
Being a revert post-911, I think the reason there is such a steady growth in the religion is because having been brought to the forefront of the liberal media, people are curious. Those that seek to gain knowledge and truth regarding Islam, with a pure heart and open mind, see the beauty of the religion and once the truth is before them, there is no way they can deny what they have learned.

I came to Islam as a devout Christian seeking understanding as to why such a horrible and violent religion could do what was done to my country. I knew little to nothing about Islam other than what I had seen through the media. I thank God now for the gentle prodding I received from Him in regards to finding my own answers.

I do not believe anything different today than I did prior to embracing Islam other than I now do believe that Muhammad (pbuh) is the final prophet of God.

The one thing that was evident was that no one forced me to accept Islam. And I now understand that because of my own free will, I believe there is "no compulsion in religion". Unlike the way I was as a Christian, always trying to force-feed my religion down the throats of non-believers, I now live my life for only the worship of God and if asked about my religion, I share it humbly with no expectations. It is only God who guides people to accept His plan for their lives. Alhamdulillah!

Ghaliyah

------------------------------------------------

Source: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answe...uestion?qid=20080224123313AAaxqk8

See mate:

It is really simple to how people can get help and guidance from Allah (at least removing the veil), they have to admit their ignorance as well drop their arrogance and I'm 100% sure that the divine help and guidance will be on their way

Now let me ask you mate, do you think that this american woman is insane, dumb and stupid?

Cheers


Hello Ahmed

I have been working over the past few years on a theory called the "faith gene". I think that there is a certain psychological and genetic make up that sway people to either believe or not!

This woman did not provide any evidence as why she embraced Islam. She just believed and that's fine with me.

As a manner of fact I am glad to see that I have no problems with Muslims and your version of Islam at all!

You merely believe that I would go to hell for my non-belief and I don't buy what you believe! Problem solved!

I will respect and not accept your beliefs and you don't do anything to harm due to your beliefs...

Have chat to BMZ, he'd let you know what I told him on PM.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All_Brains wrote:

Hello Ahmed


Salam A_B

All_Brains wrote:
I have been working over the past few years on a theory called the "faith gene". I think that there is a certain psychological and genetic make up that sway people to either believe or not!


Is that is a possible cause with that American woman?

All_Brains wrote:
This woman did not provide any evidence as why she embraced Islam. She just believed and that's fine with me.


But according to your theory of the faith gene, are those who believe in any religion, nuts?

All_Brains wrote:
As a manner of fact I am glad to see that I have no problems with Muslims and your version of Islam at all!


Why you keep calling it, MY version of Islam?

i have not created any version of Islam, it is the sects followers who did so over the years and each one of them is joycing with what they invented for themselves, for me, I'm †restoring it to its originality (the Quran), i have invented absoutely nothing, also it is not because I'm fluent in Arabic and know the Quran well that I invent

Prove to me that I came with anything new that is not stated in the Quran, and if you can't then I won't accept you calling it MY version of Islam, however I will accept calling it "The Quran vesion of Islam"

All_Brains wrote:
You merely believe that I would go to hell for my non-belief and I don't buy what you believe! Problem solved!


Well, my belief is not focused that you are going to hell, in fact I careless about that, my belief is focused on saving my own arse from hell.

All_Brains wrote:
I will respect and not accept your beliefs and you don't do anything to harm due to your beliefs...


I'm not asking you to accept my religion, I never did, this discussion is about you suggesting that the Quran is full of non sense, so far you failed to prove your case

All_Brains wrote:

Have chat to BMZ, he'd let you know what I told him on PM.


Mate, that is between you and him, if you have †something to say to me, please go ahead

Cheers


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