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the soul
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: the soul  Reply with quote

what do you atheists think about the soul? why do we think and feel and see and have emotions?

HOW were we created? who created the minerals to start the big bang?

and could science one day be able to control the way we think?
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All_Brains
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: the soul Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
what do you atheists think about the soul? why do we think and feel and see and have emotions?

HOW were we created? who created the minerals to start the big bang?

and could science one day be able to control the way we think?


Wow, so many fundamental questions! Each idea here needs it's own thread.

Let's talk about the soul only here!

Now, you tell me your interpretation of the soul first!
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i find it weird that we can think! i mean i just find that so amazing that we have feelings and emotions. i just do not know how evolution could do that!

at the same time though today i thought about something.. alzheimers. when people have this they loose most of what they originally knew. so i wonder if one became a muslim and then forgot what would happen to them!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi shaq

I will stick to the "soul"-thingy aswell.

The subject "soul" is in my opinion an idea our ancestors have developed to explain our conciousness. There have been different ideas on how this "soul" have manifested. Many thought it was in the heart, which have also come to influence on the bible and the quran, where the "mind" is somehow talked as being in the chest/heart. Later when scientist realised that the brain played a very important role in this field the "soul" was attached to the brain. The "heart"-analogy was very powerful and therefore it still dominates poetry, litterature etc. etc.

The neurological advances there's made these years a amazing. Thinking that you can have a part of your brain replaced by a protestese within relative (if not already) few years is in my opinon amazing. The heart as the home of the "soul" has been completely ruined, in my opinion, by the mere fact of heart-transplantations. The same might be the case for the brain.

But to the explanation of the conciousness, think of a little baby, think of the different persons around the world suffering from different abnormalties in the brain (autists, spastic and many more). These examples show, in my opinion, what conciousness is made of. And its made of the constant interaction of the many different small elements in our brain and the impulses we get through the different senses. Through times we get some impulses on how to behave and how to react on different things. This makes us have feelings and emotions.

And about the evolutionary element you would find that other animals are able to have empathy, meaning is able to have feelings and emotions in relation to others. And the thing would be explained that the animal who created these elements was/is somehow more able to survive in a specific environment.

Note though that I'm certainly no expert on the area. Just have a profound interest in it and a certainly willing to learn more about it.

Cheers and peace.
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so we basically think and have feelings because of neurons and such? and scientists can now be able to CONTROL the way we think if they wanted?!

that could really put a blow to religion which gives us what they call free will. because it someone were to control what we think then we have no free will like religion says!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tvebak wrote:
Hi shaq

I will stick to the "soul"-thingy aswell.

The subject "soul" is in my opinion an idea our ancestors have developed to explain our conciousness. There have been different ideas on how this "soul" have manifested. Many thought it was in the heart, which have also come to influence on the bible and the quran, where the "mind" is somehow talked as being in the chest/heart. Later when scientist realised that the brain played a very important role in this field the "soul" was attached to the brain. The "heart"-analogy was very powerful and therefore it still dominates poetry, litterature etc. etc.

The neurological advances there's made these years a amazing. Thinking that you can have a part of your brain replaced by a protestese within relative (if not already) few years is in my opinon amazing. The heart as the home of the "soul" has been completely ruined, in my opinion, by the mere fact of heart-transplantations. The same might be the case for the brain.

But to the explanation of the conciousness, think of a little baby, think of the different persons around the world suffering from different abnormalties in the brain (autists, spastic and many more). These examples show, in my opinion, what conciousness is made of. And its made of the constant interaction of the many different small elements in our brain and the impulses we get through the different senses. Through times we get some impulses on how to behave and how to react on different things. This makes us have feelings and emotions.

And about the evolutionary element you would find that other animals are able to have empathy, meaning is able to have feelings and emotions in relation to others. And the thing would be explained that the animal who created these elements was/is somehow more able to survive in a specific environment.

Note though that I'm certainly no expert on the area. Just have a profound interest in it and a certainly willing to learn more about it.

Cheers and peace.


Good post! I agree.
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
so we basically think and have feelings because of neurons and such? and scientists can now be able to CONTROL the way we think if they wanted?!

that could really put a blow to religion which gives us what they call free will. because it someone were to control what we think then we have no free will like religion says!


Hi Shaq

Yes my view is that "we basically think and have feelings because of neurons and such".

Quote:
and scientists can now be able to CONTROL the way we think if they wanted?!


Well this is a complicated subject. Have you ever heard of the case of lobotomi?
There could be different levels of "mind control". Complete"mind control" as far as I know is not, yet, the fact. It's still only in the science fictions genre, but many things imagined in these books have been achieved. But you have hypnotism, this is some sort of control of mind, it's though not applicable to all people. The person have to have some characterstic for being swayed to being hypnitized. Another way, is in the relationship with lobotomi, with medical or surgical procedures which slows/fasten, build/destroy some interactions in the brain (another example of stimulating, in one way or the other, the interaction in the brain is taking drugs of some kind).

About the prosthesis in the brain you can read a little about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant

I'm not sure wether these article is true (or is actually telling about scientific progress), but nevertheless its quite funny and perhaps very scaring indeed:
http://www.wireheading.com/roboroach/
http://www.wireheading.com/roborats/index.html

Cheers and peace
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It's mine "." ...
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Mutley
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weirdest part about humans is that they can ask the question "why" as it pertains to cause or reason or purpose of something happening. This is the one clear separation between us and animals, as far as we know. It's not a matter of us being able to do it better as is the case with other intelligent things we do. It's a matter of animals not even beijng able to do it at all. Another bizarre element of humans is that they can judge themselves and observe themselves as if it were somebody else. Again, animals simply can't do this at all, as far as we can tell. So who is this observer/judge?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mutley wrote:
The weirdest part about humans is that they can ask the question "why" as it pertains to cause or reason or purpose of something happening. This is the one clear separation between us and animals, as far as we know. It's not a matter of us being able to do it better as is the case with other intelligent things we do. It's a matter of animals not even beijng able to do it at all. Another bizarre element of humans is that they can judge themselves and observe themselves as if it were somebody else. Again, animals simply can't do this at all, as far as we can tell. So who is this observer/judge?


Hi Mutley

Well actually, in my opinon, it's a matter of us being able to do it "better" or as I would say it differently. Cause what is exactly better?
You have other animals working out systems of using tools to get food or to make something. This is a process of learning why with a cause/reason/purpose etc.
On another acount, you can say another animal abillity of hearing (specific tones), seeing in specific light or something else distinguish them from other animals.

But of course humans is different from other animals. Likewise are other animals different from other animals  (incl. humans). There's being invested great amount of time to study sociological behaviour in other animalgroups these years, of course mainly other animals which is close in relation to us humans. So we might get some new answers on the consciousness of our fellow-animals.

Cheers and peace


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It's mine "." ...
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