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why dont you believe in islam?
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ibnishaq
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: why dont you believe in islam?  Reply with quote

haha i never asked this before i dont think surprisingly.

if you are a non muslim here, then pls tell me why you do not believe in islam.

thankx!
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Tvebak
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
haha i never asked this before i dont think surprisingly.

if you are a non muslim here, then pls tell me why you do not believe in islam.

thankx!


Hello Shaq

Well I don't believe in any "god" for one. But in relation to islam and in that matter also judaism and christianity I do not believe in a sardistic being who would create beings with the clear knowledge that he/she/it would torture them forever in eternity, because of the simple reason that they where created. The thought is philosophical absurd and I keep wonder why on earth people throughout the years have been adherents of such thoughts.

Peace
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
haha i never asked this before i dont think surprisingly.

if you are a non muslim here, then pls tell me why you do not believe in islam.

thankx!

That is why:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God.” Surah 8:13-17.
“Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the scripture, until they pay jiziah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Surah 9:29  
“Fight them, until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s” Surah 193
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is on of them.” Surah 5:51 & 3:28
“Kill the mushrikeen (polytheists, Christians and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush”. Surah 9:5
“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are believers.” Surah 9:123
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every king of) worship is for Allah (alone).” Surah 2:193                                
“Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allah cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Koran.” Surah 9:111
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him” Surah 3:85
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight.” Surah 8:65
“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter.” Surah 5:33
“Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight-Jihad in Allah’s cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them). Thus you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the unbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Surah 47:4

Mohammad said (Hadith):
“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” 9:57
“The best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and his apostle, is to participate in Jihad and Allah’s cause.” 1:25
”No Muslim should be killed for killing a kafir (infidel.” 9:50
“Bad omen is in the woman, the house and the horse.” 7:30
“After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women”. 7:33
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HomoErectus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to pick up on A_B's definition of atheism/agnosticism here...

There's nothing "divine" in ALL those socalled "holy"scriptures !

and the "being" of one "god", or more than one, maybe even MANY, is just as ABSURD as portrayed in all those texts !

IF there is some "power" behind all this "creation", it sure is out of all those human boundaries... who knows... who could possibly tell ?

So...
UNTIL I know... I will keep on living this life as good as I can...WITHOUT any of those gods !

MY decision, which way to go, at what point of time, and what direction I take... no priest, no mullah, no rabbi, no nobody's business, but mine !

I wouldn't even mind the "spiritual" side of a "belief" - its also every singular persons decision !

But when it comes to FORCING some "belief" onto all others, I think its time to have all alarm-bells ringing !

And say STOP !

NOT AGAIN !!!!!!

We just gotten rid of church-rule, only to be replaced by the WORST instance = islam ?

No way !

WE have secular governments - NO "belief" rules !

THATS it !

Everything else is just DETAILS, who can get changed, by the people, by the parliament, their REPRESENTANTS, in every session !

No whatsoever "god" needed at this point !

IF ONLY a "belief" would be a private affair, like its supposed to be, a "spiritual thing" only...

BUT NO, here we are, in the year 2008, having to deal with a completely absurd control-system called "islam", trying to take us all back to the 7th century !!

FISHY !!!

As for "belief", on a general level - I seem to have lost all ability to "believe" - I dunno why...

NO "god(s)" are relevant to my life on this planet !

.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
I'd like to pick up on A_B's definition of atheism/agnosticism here...

There's nothing "divine" in ALL those socalled "holy"scriptures !

and the "being" of one "god", or more than one, maybe even MANY, is just as ABSURD as portrayed in all those texts !

IF there is some "power" behind all this "creation", it sure is out of all those human boundaries... who knows... who could possibly tell ?

So...
UNTIL I know... I will keep on living this life as good as I can...WITHOUT any of those gods !

Hey, as you said it is YOUR business.

The only comment I would like to mention here, if I may, is Yes, ISLAM is the most evil sect that existed.

I was born and raised, as Christian, in an Islamic country. I won't go through the inhumane atrocities against the Christians committed by Muslims (idividuals and government alike), for the last 1400 years and continues until this day.

But, watch, Islam exposed Islam and it will defeat itself. It started already.

As for the Christian part, I agree with you. The MAN-MADE rules is what caused the division and desertion among Christians.
That is why I follow, ONLY, the Bible.

Good luck.



MY decision, which way to go, at what point of time, and what direction I take... no priest, no mullah, no rabbi, no nobody's business, but mine !

I wouldn't even mind the "spiritual" side of a "belief" - its also every singular persons decision !

But when it comes to FORCING some "belief" onto all others, I think its time to have all alarm-bells ringing !

And say STOP !

NOT AGAIN !!!!!!

We just gotten rid of church-rule, only to be replaced by the WORST instance = islam ?

No way !

WE have secular governments - NO "belief" rules !

THATS it !

Everything else is just DETAILS, who can get changed, by the people, by the parliament, their REPRESENTANTS, in every session !

No whatsoever "god" needed at this point !

IF ONLY a "belief" would be a private affair, like its supposed to be, a "spiritual thing" only...

BUT NO, here we are, in the year 2008, having to deal with a completely absurd control-system called "islam", trying to take us all back to the 7th century !!

FISHY !!!

As for "belief", on a general level - I seem to have lost all ability to "believe" - I dunno why...

NO "god(s)" are relevant to my life on this planet !

.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
haha i never asked this before i dont think surprisingly.

if you are a non muslim here, then pls tell me why you do not believe in islam.

thankx!

I answered your query by quoting the horrible surahs from the Koran.

Now, I ask you. Why do you blelieve in Islam?
I expect that you answer intellectualy.

I was born and raised in Islamic country.
I was forced to study the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history.
The more I studied them the more I resent this evil sect.
I consider Muslims are victims of Islam like every one else.

Do you like what Muslims are doing around the world?
Can you swallow the slaughtering of humans like sheep? And that is for the mere reason that they are not Muslims!
Please, do not insult my intelligence by saying those terrorists (criminals) do not represent Islam.
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HomoErectus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear ronyvo

IbnIshaq is not really really a muslim anymore, he is in the process of leaving his "faith" behind...

Sometimes he stumbles backwards towards islam, and on the next day taking the next step out again...

I think its very natural to be in such a shaky position, when you make it to clean your system of this indoctrination !

Read his threads about leaving islam !
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HomoErectus wrote:
Dear ronyvo

IbnIshaq is not really really a muslim anymore, he is in the process of leaving his "faith" behind...

Sometimes he stumbles backwards towards islam, and on the next day taking the next step out again...

I think its very natural to be in such a shaky position, when you make it to clean your system of this indoctrination !

Read his threads about leaving islam !

Thank you HomoErectus, for bringing this issue to my attention.

However, I think my replies should help him to make a final decision.

Don't you think?

However, I'll keep convincing him.

Best regards
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ronyvo wrote:
I answered your query by quoting the horrible surahs from the Koran.

Now, I ask you. Why do you blelieve in Islam?
I expect that you answer intellectualy.


Believing in Islam means believing in the LORD Almighty Allah. When one does that, one automatically rejects otehr concocted gods like a triune god or a man-god or a god-man or a son-god or a god-son or  ahe-god or a she-god and various deities. One chucks away all ridiculous gods. Believing in Islam also means believing in the God of Abraham, the Hebrews and the God of Moses and other prophets.

ronyvo wrote:
I was born and raised in Islamic country.
I was forced to study the Koran, Hadiths and Islamic history.


Were you born into a Muslim family or into an expatriate's family?  Laughing
What is the name of that Islamic country in which you were born and raised? Please provide details.



ronyvo wrote:
The more I studied them the more I resent this evil sect.


What is a sect? Do you know what does a sect mean? Do you know the difference between a religion and a sect?

ronyvo wrote:
I consider Muslims are victims of Islam like every one else.


What makes you say that? I do not consider myself a victim of Islam and neither do the Muslims.

ronyvo wrote:
Do you like what Muslims are doing around the world?


What are they doing around the world? Please elaborate. And doing what to who?  Laughing

ronyvo wrote:
Can you swallow the slaughtering of humans like sheep? And that is for the mere reason that they are not Muslims!

Please, do not insult my intelligence by saying those terrorists (criminals) do not represent Islam.


I don't have to. You are not at all full of intelligence. Rotflmao!

Cheers
BMZ

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David
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: why dont you believe in islam? Reply with quote

ibnishaq wrote:
haha i never asked this before i dont think surprisingly.

if you are a non muslim here, then pls tell me why you do not believe in islam.

thankx!


These are just a few reasons I can come up with:

1.   I do not believe the Quran is from the Creator God.

2.   The Quran includes many fanciful Jewish and Christian folklore stories.  It seems Allah could not tell the difference between legitimate past revelations and these fanciful stories.

3.   I do not believe Muhammad was a messenger for the Creator God.

4.   There are no prophecies of the coming of Muhammad.

5.   Jesus did not mention the coming of Muhammad.

6.   Muhammad was not sure who he saw in the cave on the first visit.

7.   Muhammad's wife's uncle first suggested to Muhammad that it was Gabriel in the cave.

8.   Allah does know what the Christian Trinity is.  He stuck Mary in it.

9.   Muslims insist that Jesus did not die on the cross.  Sorry, but there is too much evidence that he did.

10.  Allah allows divorce for any reason.  Jesus allowed it for one reason only.

11.  Allah allows multiple wives.

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